I read online that it does. Is that true?
i don't believe bio-identical progesterone does. (prometrium etc). I think studies have concluded that it is the synthetic stuff that can be androgenic. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will chime in.
Personally, I've been on prometrium for over a year and i saw no issues with feminization, only the mostly positive effects of the hormone that are well documented.
Quote from: RobynD on April 11, 2017, 01:27:26 PM
i don't believe bio-identical progesterone does. (prometrium etc). I think studies have concluded that it is the synthetic stuff that can be androgenic. I'm sure someone with more knowledge will chime in.
Personally, I've been on prometrium for over a year and i saw no issues with feminization, only the mostly positive effects of the hormone that are well documented.
ive been on medeoxyprogesteeone for 6 months. 2 months ago I asked my doctor to up my dose to help with sex so she did and ever since I've felt better than I did before she used my dose, but I asked my doctor if it would raise my testosterone and she said since I'm on blockers that it won't. I'm just worried that it could be blocking T.
Neither medroxyprogesterone acetate or progesterone block estrogen. Not true. BUT, they downregulate (reduce) the number of estrogen receptors AND increase conversion of estradiol (the strongest form of estrogen) to estrone. The overall effect is a somewhat anti-estrogenic effect so much so that some studies have found that the addition of progesterone (in contrast to medroxyprogesterone) can reduce growth/division of breast cells and even stop it completely. If I recall correctly, the increase in growth seen with medroxyprogesterone acetate may be due to its glucocorticoid action, also responsible, some speculate for increasing the risk of breast cancer and of clot formation.
Medroxyprogesterone acetate, but not progesterone is a partial androgen agonist (mild androgenic action at receptors) so although it can reduce its production in the body in pre-op women, it can also directly androgenize tissue. Beware of that...
Quote from: KayXo on April 11, 2017, 03:54:26 PM
Neither medroxyprogesterone acetate or progesterone block estrogen. Not true. BUT, they downregulate (reduce) the number of estrogen receptors AND increase conversion of estradiol (the strongest form of estrogen) to estrone. The overall effect is a somewhat anti-estrogenic effect so much so that some studies have found that the addition of progesterone (in contrast to medroxyprogesterone) can reduce growth/division of breast cells and even stop it completely. If I recall correctly, the increase in growth seen with medroxyprogesterone acetate may be due to its glucocorticoid action, also responsible, some speculate for increasing the risk of breast cancer and of clot formation.
Medroxyprogesterone acetate, but not progesterone is a partial androgen agonist (mild androgenic action at receptors) so although it can reduce its production in the body in pre-op women, it can also directly androgenize tissue. Beware of that...
so even on a testosterone blockers it can still masculinization you? Dosnt make sense.
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on April 11, 2017, 04:32:54 PM
so even on a testosterone blockers it can still masculinization you? Dosnt make sense.
It does make sense.. Medroxyprogesterone acetate can reduce the number of active, available estrogen receptors in your body, leading to reduced feminisation. It also increases the conversion of estradiol (the strongest estrogen) to estrone (a much weaker form of estrogen) which is also not good for feminisation. Yes, it helps lower the production of T, but it also able to bind with the testosterone receptors which leads to masculinisation..
These are all part of the reason why I don't take it - it's also part of the reason that it's not really used in many parts of the world outside the US.
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 11, 2017, 05:44:59 PM
It does make sense.. Medroxyprogesterone acetate can reduce the number of active, available estrogen receptors in your body, leading to reduced feminisation. It also increases the conversion of estradiol (the strongest estrogen) to estrone (a much weaker form of estrogen) which is also not good for feminisation. Yes, it helps lower the production of T, but it also able to bind with the testosterone receptors which leads to masculinisation..
These are all part of the reason why I don't take it - it's also part of the reason that it's not really used in many parts of the world outside the US.
so my doctor dosnt know what she's talking about? She told me it wouldn't affect my estrogen levels and if it affected my testosterone levels that it would only affect it minimally since I'm already taking spironolactone and that if it does raise my testosterone some it won't be enough to hurt any feminization.
Interesting, that's a far deeper explanation than what I've looked into it. My doctor has me on Estradial, progesterone and spironolactone, She said the estradiol was the most important one, the progesterone would help increase nipple development and feminization, the spiro would help reduce risk of heart trouble, help block T and in time would help reduce body hair. The day she wrote the scripts my appointment lasted 30 minutes and she discussed a great many things much of it new to me. Kind of tough to listen to a half hour talk on medical issues where much of it is new to you and grasp everything, I suppose I could have some of that mixed up but I think that's how she explained it. I've another appointment with her coming up and I do have questions, I'll add this to the list to ask her.
I personally haven't had an issues with progesterone since I've been on it. It's helped with the areola development, the breast developing, and general fat redistribution alongside the estrogen. Yes bio progesterone has a little effect on your estrogen levels, but it's a very insignificant amount it effects. We also have to realize that during female puberty, women start producing progesterone around the time of their first period and their breasts end up just fine. There is also lot of other factors to consider too such as how many E receptors you have, how sensitive to E, etc. Usually, my understanding is also that with the addition a doctor may increase your E dose if progesterone effects your levels too much, but it's very much your mileage may vary when you take progesterone. This is just bio progesterone that I've talked about because Medroxyprogesterone is a progestin and not a true progesterone which means it has different effects. Yes it can help with breast development, but it also effects your T receptors too, which is was many people will say to use bio-progesterone over Medroxyprogesterone.
TL/DR:
Bio-Progesterone - Minimal effect on E levels and E sensitivity with a bigger effect on breast development, actual progesterone, no real masculization effect.
Medroxyprogesterone - effect on T receptors and more effect on E levels, it's a progestin, can be less effective with breast development and can cause masculization somewhat.
Bottom line your mileage may vary.
When y'all say medroxyprogesterone can cause masculinization do y'all mean like in the face? Or just hair? Because if it's just hair then it's not a concern to me.
Masculinization includes everything, from making skin oilier, face less feminine, hair grow faster, etc.
Just based on studies, it would seem estrogen has a greater effect on cell division and breast growth than progesterone. Anecdotal evidence seems to be mixed, with some women finding progesterone further increases breast growth and make breasts fuller, others noticing a reduction. YMMV. :) There are probably several factors at play here. Trial and error. :)
Quote from: KayXo on April 12, 2017, 09:12:12 AM
Masculinization includes everything, from making skin oilier, face less feminine, hair grow faster, etc.
Just based on studies, it would seem estrogen has a greater effect on cell division and breast growth than progesterone. Anecdotal evidence seems to be mixed, with some women finding progesterone further increases breast growth and make breasts fuller, others noticing a reduction. YMMV. :) There are probably several factors at play here. Trial and error. :)
oh ok. I've been on medroxyprogesterone for 8 months and havnt gotten a pimple yet so I guess I don't need to worry about the masculinization. Plus when I was on a lower dose on nedroxy for 5 months my doctor checked my levels and she seemed happy with them.
I've had breast growth since starting medroxyprpgesterone, not sure if it's because of that.
There are enough known negatives with medroxyprogesterone that I'd never consider it. Those are health things and age related so as you're younger those downsides may not be an issue.
I've absolutely seen increased breast development as well as sex drive, and if I'm on it for longer periods (more than 2 weeks) my emotions seem to go all over the place.
Nome of this amounts to androgenic (well maybe sex drive) and I'm not opposed to that inherently even if that were the mechanism. When I take P, I usually up my E dose a bit and my E dose is so small that that doesn't worry me in the least.
Quote from: KayXo on April 12, 2017, 09:12:12 AM
Masculinization includes everything, from making skin oilier, face less feminine, hair grow faster, etc.
Just based on studies, it would seem estrogen has a greater effect on cell division and breast growth than progesterone. Anecdotal evidence seems to be mixed, with some women finding progesterone further increases breast growth and make breasts fuller, others noticing a reduction. YMMV. :) There are probably several factors at play here. Trial and error. :)
I agree with this, however P is known to be effective in building the lactation structure of the female breast. My experience has been increased fullness, not just absolute size.