I had an appointment with my psychiatrist on Sunday, and as I have not shown any positive response to the various anti-depressants she has tried till date, she has recommended Electro Convulsive Therapy for me.
She seemed a bit disappointmented, because of the lack of improvement in my mood. She also talked with my parents, and they agree that I should take the treatment.
According to my psychiatrist, ECT shows considerable improvement in patients of depression.
I personally am a bit sceptical about this treatment. Mostly, this is due to portrayal of shock therapy as something bad, or cruel in television and media.
ECT is given under general anaesthesia, and shows rapid improvement in the mood. It requires alternate day sessions for a period of 4 weeks. Mostly, patients start seeing improvement in the first week itself.
I wish to get better, and this is a last chance for me.
I hope I can fight my depression and start focussing on my gender issues.
What do all of you beautiful people think?
If you're depressed because you're trans then the only thing that's going to help long term is addressing that. HRT and transition probably. I can't imagine ECT is going to help much or we'd all be doing it, and there's probably risks associated with it.
I've refused anti-depressants from my psych because of that - I'd rather fix my real problems than spend years on medication and not really living properly.
What they said ^
Have they at least identified the root cause(s) of your depression yet? Try treating the disease and not just the symptoms.
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I live in the UK and I have never heard electro convulsive therapy being used still; either private or on the NHS; which makes me extremely skeptical about the 'research'. Depression is caused by your brain not having enough serotonin so I don't get how being shocked would increase the hormone production.
I agree with AnonyMs that you need to treat thd cause of your depression which is most likely GD if you're not already living and being treated as female. For me even after transitioning I was on antidepressants due to realising I had other issues apart from being trans which helped me to cope a lot better. I think antidepressants may be good for you now just to help you cope.
Btw; I was on SSRI type pills which caused me to feel zombified; have you tried pills which aren't part of this group?
Electroconvulsive therapy is not something that I would allow them to do on me for any reason. According to what I read, it is used only after all other treatments have failed, and it has a high relapse rate.
I am not a doctor or a psychologist. What I know about you comes only from your posts. But, from what you have written, it sounds to me like the depression is a result of untreated gender dysphoria. Since they haven't tried treating that, ECT is premature.
My doctor says, she cannot start with the gender issues till I am mentally stable, according to the guidelines.
But how will I be mentally stable, till I start doing something about my gender issues
Its a catch-22
Find another doctor.
Dear Saira,
As you know, I'm not a Psychiatrist, but ECT is apparently still used, albeit no so frequently nowadays. Actually, there has been a renewed interest in this modality of treatment recently, including in the UK (see https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/17/electroconvulsive-therapy-on-rise-england-ect-nhs). There is a nice Q&A on the site of the Royal College of Psychiatrists: http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/therapies/electroconvulsivetherapy,ect.aspx. What's a little confusing is the fact that despite being quite effective, no one knows how it works... There are plenty of theories, but no certainties. But again, nobody knows why I am transexual, but that doesn't make it less real.
But I agree with the others... You say that you've tried several medications. But did the psychiatrist try to address your transgender feelings? Because if they are the cause of your depression, with ECT you'll be just treating a symptom, when there is a proven treatment for the possible root cause (gender dysphoria): transition.
I was on several antidepressants (amitryptilline, fluoxetine, sertraline, venlafaxine) and mood stabilizers (sodium valproate, topiramate) successively for several years, with only temporary and partial responses. About a year ago, I aknowledged that my root problem was my gender dysphoria, so I just quit all my medication (gradually) and began taking only St John's wort... A few months ago, I started HRT. And after a few days I magically began to see the brighter side of life. No mood swings. No blues. Just a constant state of zen punctuated by moments of extreme happiness. No longer taking anything else, except for multivitamins, calcium and fish oil.
Take-home message: ECT might be a valid option, but I wouldn't try it before addressing the gender dysphoria (perhaps including a trial of low-dose estrogen?)
Hugs, Sarah
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Find another doctor or show this one the WPATH guidelines.
Quote from: Sarah.VanDistel on April 18, 2017, 07:19:49 AM
Dear Saira,
As you know, I'm not a Psychiatrist, but ECT is apparently still used, albeit no so frequently nowadays. Actually, there has been a renewed interest in this modality of treatment recently, including in the UK (see https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/apr/17/electroconvulsive-therapy-on-rise-england-ect-nhs). There is a nice Q&A on the site of the Royal College of Psychiatrists: http://www.rcpsych.ac.uk/mentalhealthinformation/therapies/electroconvulsivetherapy,ect.aspx. What's a little confusing is the fact that despite being quite effective, no one knows how it works... There are plenty of theories, but no certainties. But again, nobody knows why I am transexual, but that doesn't make it less real.
But I agree with the others... You say that you've tried several medications. But did the psychiatrist try to address your transgender feelings? Because if they are the cause of your depression, with ECT you'll be just treating a symptom, when there is a proven treatment for the possible root cause (gender dysphoria): transition.
I was on several antidepressants (amitryptilline, fluoxetine, sertraline, venlafaxine) and mood stabilizers (sodium valproate, topiramate) successively for several years, with only temporary and partial responses. About a year ago, I aknowledged that my root problem was my gender dysphoria, so I just quit all my medication (gradually) and began taking only St John's wort... A few months ago, I started HRT. And after a few days I magically began to see the brighter side of life. No mood swings. No blues. Just a constant state of zen punctuated by moments of extreme happiness. No longer taking anything else, except for multivitamins, calcium and fish oil.
Take-home message: ECT might be a valid option, but I wouldn't try it before addressing the gender dysphoria (perhaps including a trial of low-dose estrogen?)
Hugs, Sarah
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She wants me stable mentally, before we start talking about my gender dysphoria.
Quote from: Elis on April 18, 2017, 07:24:03 AM
Find another doctor or show this one the WPATH guidelines.
Its even in the WPATH guidelines.
You can find doctors with all sorts of ideas, good ones bad ones, everything. Find another one, or at least get a second opinion.
Are you living somewhere that really backwards on trans issues?
Electro Convulsive therapy was still in use when I transitioned and seems to work by doing a reset on the brain. If the effects are long term is very debatable and because of the danger of the procedure, it would be the absolute last thing I would want to try.
I would explain to the doctor that on this site we have seen dramatic improvements in as little as 2-4 weeks after starting HRT. There are no visible changes in 4 weeks so if HRT doesn't work, it can be discontinued and something else tried. It's low cost as you only need a blocker and low dose hormone with the primary cost being the Endo visit.
If you doctor continues to ignore your gender dysphoria, you should seek out another doctor because this one is not knowledgable in the areas of treatment you require. I am sorry to see that it's so difficult for you to receive the treatment you need and I hope you are able to convince your doctor to treat the Gender Dysphoria which is known to result in extreme depression in some people. I was one of them who had depression much like yours and never had medication other than HRT. I am completely free of the depression I once had and I hope you see the same results.
Seems like just a step above drilling holes in the head to let the evil spirits out. I would think it's heavy handed and imprecise at best. I'd like to know what the downsides are. I mean, sure, it fixes mood, but what are the consequences?
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Quote from: Gertrude on April 18, 2017, 08:18:23 AM
Seems like just a step above drilling holes in the head to let the evil spirits out. I would think it's heavy handed and imprecise at best. I'd like to know what the downsides are. I mean, sure, it fixes mood, but what are the consequences?
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I read that it can cause temporary memory loss. Death in 4 out of 10000 cases I read.
It can stop the heart from beating and the heart needs to be shocked to restart it. It's bad enough to deal with a heart attack or to stop it when required by surgery but to stop it when there may be a far simpler solution is like visiting a witch doctor.
Hi, Saira
For a couple reasons reasons this subject is difficult for me to discuss—so I'll just say what I feel I can.
I have never administered, received or directly observed electroconvulsive therapy, but based on what I've heard I'd try to avoid it if possible. The foremost reason, put simply, is that my teacher (who specialized in brain research before getting a stipend to study counseling under Carl Rogers) does not hold it in high regard.
He still practices counseling, and has for many decades been requested by psychiatric hospitals to take on clients whom they have been unable to help. Generally he can.
While it may be possible that ECT has evolved to become absolutely safe and invariably effective, I tend to trust his opinion on the matter.
Quote from: Saira128 on April 18, 2017, 07:43:27 AM
Its even in the WPATH guidelines.
The WPATH guidelines say: "The presence of co-existing mental health concerns does not necessarily preclude possible changes in gender role or access to feminizing/masculinizing hormones or surgery; rather, these concerns need to be optimally managed prior to or concurrent with treatment of gender dysphoria."
Notice "prior to or concurrent with..." Both problems could be addressed at the same time. I am under the impression that you psychiatrist is trying to avoid discussing the gender dysphoria. Could it be that she has little experience with GD and feels intimidated? Could it be that your parents are making some pressure in order to direct the treatment towards a socially more acceptable problem, such as a depression? Humm... I agree with the others: I would seek another Psychiatrist for sure.
Hugs, Sarah
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I used to help administer ECT right up until I left Psychiatric Nursing in the late 90's. I was part of the recovery team and the "intervention" team that dealt with the more difficult administrations.
I would not ever let anyone do it to me or anyone that I loved. This is from the perspective of 15 year Registered Psychiatric Nurse who has not only been involved in the administration but also had a family member have it administered to them.
Seek a second opinion, ECT can have some real drastic irreversible side effects which I have seen first hand...ask for the evidence that this is going to fix your depression.... Do not accept anything that is not peer reviewed or widely accepted. Get as second opinion....They don't know how it works but they do know it takes out great chunks of memory and hopefully the personality changes are the ones you want.
ECT is one of the main reason I quit Psychiatric Nursing her in Austrlaia...it is barbaric IMHO.
Liz
PS feel free to PM me
You may want to stop telling doctors you have depression, if you don't actually have depression. You probably have Gender Dysphoria and it's causing you extreme sadness and an inability to function. That's not the same thing as depression. Anti-depressants are not going to do ANYTHING for Gender Dysphoria, and you'll likely experience nothing but side effects if you take anti-depressants without actually having depression.
Also, HRT is important but won't necessarily solve everything. Try to think of all of the problems of the situation you're in. Are you lacking support? Are you lacking a transition plan with goals? Are you lacking clarity on your identity? If you are having problems with any of these, then these things need to be addressed rather than relying on medications to solve anything. Make that clear to the doctors. If a psychiatrist points out that they're "a medical doctor who prescribes medications", start asking them medical questions instead of talking about your mood. Having a plan on what you want to discuss before going to the doctor's office can avoid the over-focus of discussing your mood.
I understand that not everyone is "there yet" but you may want to start asking the doctors to refer to you with the correct pronouns, and correct them every time they make a mistake. This way they'll see you're actually serious. All of this advice I've just offered is based on things I've actually done and had success with. You don't need to be afraid of ECT if you simply refuse to allow them to do it.
Maybe this will help further the discussion. I hope so.
Back in 2002 (on my 50th birthday) I was started on what was to be a 2 week or longer regimen of ECT (3 times per week) in a very well known major east coast hospital. I had major depression since adolescence, and was taking several meds for it at the time. My depression had become at that time extremely severe to the point where I was practically catatonic, and so I was admitted to the hospital.
Most of the patients on that unit with psychiatric diagnoses were there for ECT. Monday, Wednesday, and Friday they would line us up on stretchers in the corridor and roll us one by one into the room where the procedure would take place. Each of us in turn was anesthetized and the procedure was administered. We were then rolled into a recovery room and eventually returned to our rooms. It was almost an assembly-line arrangement.
I gave up on the procedure after one week and refused to take any more treatments. The side effects for me were pretty incredible. Very nasty headaches (migraine), nausea, back pain. Some of my fellow patients would leap out of bed immediately after returning to the unit and ask where breakfast was. I would remain in my bed all day with my covers pulled up as far as they would go to keep the light out of my eyes. Some of my fellow patients vouched for how effective it was. It did me no good whatsoever. I had memory loss and confusion while I was on the unit, and, while I can't prove this, I think it might be possible that I lost some memory and mental capacity permanently.
Even while depression eased after I was discharged I was never entirely free of it. Until I began HRT. Now I watch the sunrise with what I think must be joy in my heart and think "is this what normal people feel like?" I recently asked the psychiatrist that manages my meds whether it could be possible that my very long history of depression might not be the result of gender dysphoria. "I wouldn't be a bit surprised" he answered.
It only took me 13 years to find that out.
Quote from: Nancys Girl on April 18, 2017, 12:06:56 PM
...
Even while depression eased after I was discharged I was never entirely free of it. Until I began HRT. Now I watch the sunrise with what I think must be joy in my heart and think "is this what normal people feel like?" I recently asked the psychiatrist that manages my meds whether it could be possible that my very long history of depression might not be the result of gender dysphoria. "I wouldn't be a bit surprised" he answered.
It only took me 13 years to find that out.
Oh, this is dead on.
I was an effeminate child who had not started puberty at age 15. (Undescended testicles. DES exposure in utero...) I was an A student, but quiet and withdrawn. I was caught dressing.
I avoided ECT and aversion therapy, in favor of a lighter conversion therapy, testosterone injections to lower the testicles and kick off puberty, and counseling by an authority figure associated with a private elementary school and place of worship. I became a sullen, angry, antisocial D student.
I'm pretty sure that was when the depression and dysphoria started. It got worse over the decades, and anxiety was added to the mix. I'm pretty sure the depression and anxiety were social in origin, driven by the perception that others would reject me if I came out of hiding, and driven by severe gender dysphoria.
Like your experience, mine was that starting HRT was the treatment that made the biggest difference. I was started on an anti-androgen (spironolactone) and after several weeks I started experiencing periods frequently where I could easily find a state of calmness, where the distracting 'noise' in my mind faded away. I started estradiol (via patches) a month into HRT, and that improved my mood at once. About 2 months into HRT, that state of calmness and mental quiet became my new normal.
This made a remarkable change in my mental state, and my outlook on life. I've still had rough patches, mostly related to the social issues we encounter, around rejection by others, but I AM doing much better than before I started HRT. It was a life saver in my particular case.
I saw an older documentary a couple of years back that mentioned people who were the first trial patients of ECT in the States, one of them a girl who had her memory totally wiped from a certain period in her life by it - no knowledge of what they did to her, the procedures, and big gaps in her recollections of life from the time. It sounds brutal and imprecise. How do you - or they - even know what they are doing to what part in your brain and what the long term effects will be? The answer is they don't.
Memory Loss is very commons as are personality changes
It is barbaric because they have no idea why it sometimes works or even how it works...its like swatting a fly with a sheet of iron.
It is simply a creating an "epileptic seizure" why you may ask
They found that when Epileptics were leading up to seizures they became quite agitated and depressed in some cases and then after the seizure they seemed better...hence cause an electrical storm in the brain...some people feel better, many, many, don't but that is the total science behind ECT...nothing more than that. ECT mimics (not very well)a seizure. Of more recent times they may have been able to provide more supporting evidence but the root reason for using this treatment remains the same.
I've suffered from major recurrent depression most of my life, and I don't consider most of it to be GD-related. (At the very least, they finally found an antidepressant that worked for me, and I don't think it would have had that effect if my problems were all rooted in GD.)
There was a period when nothing was working and my doctors were seriously considering ECT for me. I was actually all for it, because if they didn't find something effective quickly, I was going to end up killing myself. Something like 60% of ECT patients experience remission of their depressive symptoms, while the number is more like 30% for any given antidepressant. While hospitalized I talked to other patients that had had ECT done, and most said they would do it again, despite the memory loss effects. These were extremely depressed people who were in so much pain they wanted to die. The loss of some memories here and there seemed like a fair trade to them for relief from that agony.
It's worth pointing out that modern ECT is different from ECT performed in the past. They used to put electrodes on both sides of the head, which wiped out more memories than the current technique of placing an electrode on only one side of the head. That does not mean that catastrophic memory loss (big chunks of long-term and short-term memory) can't happen. It's just rarer.
ECT might be valuable to you if you are in acute danger of suicide and have had poor results from other treatment modalities. If that doesn't describe you, I personally wouldn't recommend going through with it. Getting a second opinion sounds like a good idea to me, since there's nothing to say that treatment for GD won't help resolve the depression.
Here's an info article about ECT and some newer brain stimulating treatments, which you might want to look at:
https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Treatment/ECT,-TMS-and-Other-Brain-Stimulation-Therapies (https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Treatment/ECT,-TMS-and-Other-Brain-Stimulation-Therapies)
If your doctor is suggesting ECT, then run as fast as you can and get another opinion.
My mother had ECT in the late 1950's and she went from a very intelligent woman full of life to a completely non functional barely coherent person. ECT essentially fried her brains and was never the same again. The damage was permanent.
Technique may be somewhat improved today, but the effect of sending strong electrical current across your brain is the same.
As many others have already pointed out, you may have other issues masquerading as depression. Please, please, please get a second opinion from a different doctor.
Have you brought up the subject of your childhood sexual abuse with your counselor yet? I remember you were reluctant to for awhile. I only ask because if that issue has not been meaningfully addressed in counseling as well as the gender issues, then something like this ECT seems WAY too premature at this point.
Never had or would allow people I know to have ECT after being a self harmer for years ( not gender related but after a accident ) along with being a frequent flyer in hospital and the psych unit,
The people I got to know by name and they always said my name when I said hi in return and we had good chats about anything changed over time and forgot the simple things from ECT treatment when they came back to the unit and were like zombies a few days after,
I wasnt till I was on a different unit as there werent any other beds there I found the rumors true they had a dedicated ward just for ECT patients and all were zombies from having it and the first night there my room mate said so you here for ECT which was a scary though and I couldnt get out of there fast enough when my docs said your going to the usual ward<
When I returned to my 2nd home I was talking to another women and told here about it and her reply was the docs here need to start with the underlieing problems and treat that first along with finding the right meds for the indervidual along with atually listening to then not there careres and if in dout seek 2nd or 3rd opinion from a different private doc one thats open minded and doesnt take a one minded view because of what they have hear about a person...
But therapy should always come first which can last years being open with then and being on the right meds for them as they all work different and mixing some meds can actually make you worse when they interact with each other...
Saira, I have a dear friend who suffered with bipolar manic depression for more than a decade. He eventually let his docs try ect and he regretted it.
There is absolutely no way I think this is a good idea. You've only been in treatment for a few months and your depression is more than adequately explained by the combination of a history of abuse and your dysphoria.
Drugs aren't a cure all for either of your underlying problems. I strongly suggest you read "the body keeps the score" by Bessel van de Kolk or any other work from that author.
I've been working with my psychiatrist for close to 4 years on my depression which has it's roots in the effects of growing up with an abusive parent, not helped at all by my dysphoria. I've had to work on both and thankfully my therapist is nearby so my sessions are weekly. We spent nearly 2 years just managing depression and slowly uncovering the underlying causes. Of course we also talked about my dysphoria and ultimately transition has been essential to relieving my depression. I couldn't feel whole as a male and hormones have helped immeasurably.
Lastly I take Sam-E which increases dopamine levels and works without the side effects of the various pharmaceuticals that we went through. We had tried SSRIs which had worked for me back in the 90s, an ndri and an snri and all of them had unacceptable side effects (which doesn't mean they couldn't work for you).
Hugs, please stay in touch
Loving all the assumptions from all the "doctors" and "psychiatrists" in this thread.. :icon_dizzy:
If the OP has failed to respond to multiple meds from multiple drug familes, then, oddly enough, modern ECT is the go to treatment. It's efficacy is well documented. Yes, it is a last option, but it's not something recommended by psychiatrists unless medication has failed.
Caveat: Treatment regime's differ, not all places do ECT to current standards and that is barbaric.
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 19, 2017, 06:47:26 AM
Loving all the assumptions from all the "doctors" and "psychiatrists" in this thread.. :icon_dizzy:
If the OP has failed to respond to multiple meds from multiple drug familes, then, oddly enough, modern ECT is the go to treatment. It's efficacy is well documented. Yes, it is a last option, but it's not something recommended by psychiatrists unless medication has failed.
If you assume it as a treatment of last resort then I guess you can make a case for it if, although again I would never let anyone I loved go through it new or not. I am qualified to make the statement I have made not only through experience but I have the piece of paper to go with it. I would argue it out with any psychiatrist....Most in this thread have spoken from either professional experience or personal.
Jumping on google does not make you an expert.
Quote from: ElizabethK on April 19, 2017, 06:55:25 AM
Jumping on google does not make you an expert.
Google? Nah, I walked upstairs and asked a psychiatrist..
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 19, 2017, 06:47:26 AM
Yes, it is a last option, but it's not something recommended by psychiatrists unless medication has failed.
Caveat: Treatment regime's differ, not all places do ECT to current standards and that is barbaric.
I agree completely. ECT is the last resort when medication fails. The current standard is much better than what my mother went through.
There is nothing wrong with a second opinion by an equally qualified psychiatrist. And if ECT was still recommended, I would get a third or fourth opinion as well. ECT is not to be taken lightly and sometimes there is permanent damage worst than the original condition.
Quote from: kelly_aus on April 19, 2017, 06:47:26 AM
Loving all the assumptions from all the "doctors" and "psychiatrists" in this thread.. :icon_dizzy:
If the OP has failed to respond to multiple meds from multiple drug familes, then, oddly enough, modern ECT is the go to treatment.
Saira has as far as we know, only been prescribed antidepressants for 3, possibly 4 months. Given that the various reuptake inhibitor drugs (SSRI, sdri, ndri etc all take a minimum of a month to show any therapeutic effect and that there even within these major families the various options work differently for different individuals I don't need to be an MD to consider my thoughts that this is premature to be relevant and valid.
Never mind that neither hrt nor directly addressing her dysphoria are being considered when it's entirely possible that those are necessary to relieve her depression.
I just noticed this thread so I haven't read the responses. I will point out first that I'm not a medical person and this is my own opinion, but I vehemently oppose this treatment. Yes , the statistics are that there is improvement in 40 -60 % of patients but all the improvement disappears 4-6 months later and declines further with each subsequent treatment. To me if its your choice you can do what you want with your brain , but I personally would rather not fry my brain with a bombardment of raw electrons .
Quote from: Dena on April 18, 2017, 08:31:08 AM
It can stop the heart from beating and the heart needs to be shocked to restart it. It's bad enough to deal with a heart attack or to stop it when required by surgery but to stop it when there may be a far simpler solution is like visiting a witch doctor.
Oh god! Thats bad.
They are asking me to give a narco test( sodium thiopentol) to check whether I am really saying the truth.
What if I say that I don't want to transition?
Quote from: Saira128 on April 19, 2017, 10:44:38 PM
Oh god! Thats bad.
Having my heart stop is the last thing I'd be worried about. I expect they can restart it. Having my mind permanently damaged would terrify me.
Quote from: Saira128 on April 20, 2017, 05:09:11 AM
They are asking me to give a narco test( sodium thiopentol) to check whether I am really saying the truth.
What if I say that I don't want to transition?
I don't know if you've ever said where you live, but I can't help but wonder if it some very socially backwards place? None of this sounds right.
Quote from: Saira128 on April 20, 2017, 05:09:11 AM
They are asking me to give a narco test( sodium thiopentol) to check whether I am really saying the truth.
What if I say that I don't want to transition?
That's not really how the drug works. The reason it's not used more often; say to know whether suspected criminals are telling the truth; is because it's not 100% accurate. Same with a lie detector test. Again I haven't heard of the NHS using this which makes me highly skeptical of its ethical use and if its effectiveness in psychiatry outweighs the harms.
Quote from: AnonyMs on April 20, 2017, 05:11:13 AM
I don't know if you've ever said where you live, but I can't help but wonder if it some very socially backwards place? None of this sounds right.
India
I've not read all your posts, so I'm I don't know your full story, but I can't help but think you're not being treated properly. This sites mostly western English speaking, and so are the others I use. I also occasionally read sites in other European languages. Basically I do a lot of reading, and I've never heard of any of the things you are saying before.
I think you should look for another doctor.
Nony, she's in India so I'd not say socially backward, certainly different.
Saira, you also mentioned your doc administered an mmpi which is very much intended to catch inconsistencies in your answers. Don't be afraid of sodium pent, though with my own cultural bias I'm concerned they done just want to talk to you and help work on your problems.
I still have that friend who's got a psychiatrist relative in India if you'd like a backstop opinion. PM me and we could get that moving.
Hugs hon
I dunno what to do anymore.
I don't have anyone who really understands me.
My parents don't believe me. They want me to take the lie detector drug.
Its better to kill myself than face this.
What are your options...can you keep them from making you take the Drug if you don't want too.?
Do you have someone you can talk to locally?
Liz
Quote from: ElizabethK on April 20, 2017, 07:40:09 AM
What are your options...can you keep them from making you take the Drug if you don't want too.?
Do you have someone you can talk to locally?
Liz
No I can't, and there's no one to talk to, just here.
Do you know what it is that will satisfy your parents? What do they want to hear from you that will stop them making you take this drug that you don't want?
Liz
Quote from: ElizabethK on April 20, 2017, 07:50:19 AM
Do you know what it is that will satisfy your parents? What do they want to hear from you that will stop them making you take this drug that you don't want?
Liz
Maybe,they want to hear that I am not trans.
Saira, I'm sure they don't want you to be trans, it's not an easy road, hell, I don't want to be trans, I'd like to have been a cis female.
Hugs, here to help you as much as we're able.
I was afraid that was what they wanted...how will they respond if you take the drug and still say you are trans...will it stop there or will they keep going until you say you are not trans? How long before you will be in a position to be able to leave?
Quote from: ElizabethK on April 20, 2017, 08:35:05 AM
I was afraid that was what they wanted...how will they respond if you take the drug and still say you are trans...will it stop there or will they keep going until you say you are not trans? How long before you will be in a position to be able to leave?
And what if I say I'm not trans? Then I won't be able to convince them again, ever.
Quote from: SadieBlake on April 20, 2017, 08:09:15 AM
Saira, I'm sure they don't want you to be trans, it's not an easy road, hell, I don't want to be trans, I'd like to have been a cis female.
Hugs, here to help you as much as we're able.
Thank you...keeping my fingers crossed for tomorrow morning.
I'm so sorry you're being put in this position, Saira. How old are you, if you don't mind my asking? Is moving out soon a reasonable prospect for you? Your parents sound like they're being very unreasonable.
Quote from: The Flying Lemur on April 20, 2017, 11:06:45 AM
I'm so sorry you're being put in this position, Saira. How old are you, if you don't mind my asking? Is moving out soon a reasonable prospect for you? Your parents sound like they're being very unreasonable.
I'm 21. Not yet earning, completely dependant.
Quote from: Saira128 on April 20, 2017, 07:32:53 AM
My parents don't believe me. They want me to take the lie detector drug.
Hijra are common in your culture, I would think that it wouldn't be so out of place. Didn't India just pass a third gender law? What province are you from?
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Quote from: Gertrude on April 20, 2017, 03:48:12 PM
Hijra are common in your culture, I would think that it wouldn't be so out of place. Didn't India just pass a third gender law? What province are you from?
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Gertrude, that's true, but as far as I know, despite the legal recognition, hijras are still very much discriminated in Indian society and most must live from begging or prostitution. Knowing a little bit Saira, I don't think that's an option...
Hugs, Sarah
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Its over, I did it, I feel great after the catharsis. I started answering questions, and I didn't feel any hesitancy. I don't remember when I slept, its funny, weird even.
When I woke up, my mom was there with me. We talked.
..and how did the talk go...are they going to get you the help you need?
Quote from: ElizabethK on April 21, 2017, 01:03:54 AM
..and how did the talk go...are they going to get you the help you need?
Atleast, now, they know what I feel.
My dad used female pronouns today while talking about me. I heard it.
It sounds like it's working out quite positively.
That you can take a drug and the effect is on them says a lot about being trans.
Quote from: Saira128 on April 21, 2017, 01:09:54 AM
Atleast, now, they know what I feel.
My dad used female pronouns today while talking about me. I heard it.
Great news what a change that has been
Fantastic news, Saira! Super happy for you! :-)
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Thanks...it really felt great. They still want me to continue wth the ECT though. Although, they have begun to accept the reality.
I think hrt is not far away now.
With any luck HRT will resolve your depression, as it does for many of us, and you won't need to look at any other treatments.
I notice that India's one of the few countries where doctors don't have to perform ECT under general anesthetic. Bad enough with GA, but that's basically torture. I have to say I find this entire topic quite disturbing to discuss. Regardless of the GA you could end up permanently damaged from this.
Quote from: Saira128 on April 21, 2017, 01:09:54 AM
Atleast, now, they know what I feel.
My dad used female pronouns today while talking about me. I heard it.
Oh, Saira, that is wonderful news. I really hope that you will be able to receive proper treatment now.
Quote from: AnonyMs on April 21, 2017, 06:26:43 AM
With any luck HRT will resolve your depression, as it does for many of us, and you won't need to look at any other treatments.
I notice that India's one of the few countries where doctors don't have to perform ECT under general anesthetic. Bad enough with GA, but that's basically torture. I have to say I find this entire topic quite disturbing to discuss. Regardless of the GA you could end up permanently damaged from this.
They are goint to use GA
I've been doing ECT on and off for a few years and it has drastically improved my mood. For me, the side effects are minimal. I usually have a slight headache after the treatment and I have experienced memory loss a few times, but it's not too bad. It's honestly a life saver imo. It's helped with my depression so much and I'm so glad I decided to do it :)
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ECT is still used as a potential treatment for severe depression usually with psychosis. It's a last line treatment for those who haven't responded to antidepressant medication. While it is unknown how it works the prevailing opinion is that it increases the circulating numbers of neurotransmitters such as serotonin, dopamine, and norepinephrine.
The main side effect is retrograde amnesia. There is also potential for permanent memory loss. Its mortality rate is 2-4 out of 100,000. http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/acps.12721/full
Anytime it is done in modern medicine is should be carried out with anesthesia and paralytics so that the patient does not remember the procedure.
I am undergoing ECT and Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation on alternate days. Haven't experienced any improvement in my mood yet.
Even simple things like losing in a video game make me depressed. I don't know what to do anymore.
Try HRT.
Quote from: Saira128 on April 25, 2017, 09:29:57 AM
I am undergoing ECT and Transcranial Magnetic Stimulation on alternate days. Haven't experienced any improvement in my mood yet.
Even simple things like losing in a video game make me depressed. I don't know what to do anymore.
Saira, my lay opinion is that for many transgender folks the depression and anxiety are not due to a brain chemistry problem, but to the very real concerns we have about acceptance and rejection by others, and the constant internal discomfort of gender dysphoria. HRT is an effective treatment at reducing gender dysphoria, and the reduction happens well before any permanent changes.
I would try very hard to raise this again with your doctor, suggesting it as an alternative treatment or if they won't go with that, as an addition to your current treatment. In my own opinion the risk is low with HRT, and in my experience the reward can be quite high.
My experience had the depression and anxiety receding for significant periods of the day starting about two weeks in, and after two months the reduced dysphoria and recession of anxiety and depression were my new normal.
I would very much hope that the folks treating you would be willing to at least listen to some feedback from their patient.
I'm feeling a bit better since the past few days. I guess, the ECT and r-TMS worked.
I talked about hrt with my parents.
I am overweight, and it seems I can't start hrt till I reduce my weight.
So I have a very long wait.
I've been overweight and had no trouble getting HRT from my endo. I believe the stress of being trans and not on HRT is far more dangerous than being overweight on HRT.
Regardless, I'd try get a promise of HRT if you lose weight, then use that as motivation to actually do so.
I have memory loss too.
Quote from: ElliotHarrison on April 23, 2017, 02:35:55 PM
I've been doing ECT on and off for a few years and it has drastically improved my mood. For me, the side effects are minimal. I usually have a slight headache after the treatment and I have experienced memory loss a few times, but it's not too bad. It's honestly a life saver imo. It's helped with my depression so much and I'm so glad I decided to do it :)
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Quote from: Saira128 on May 11, 2017, 02:48:29 AM
I have memory loss too.
It is an unfortunate side effect.
Quote from: Saira128 on May 11, 2017, 02:48:29 AM
I have memory loss too.
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What kind of memory loss have you experienced, if you don't mind me asking?
I've only experienced memory loss a few times since I've been doing ECT. The first time I was driving to school and I just completely forgot how to get there even though I had been driving there 5 days a week, every week for four years. That was pretty scary but I just used the GPS on my phone to find my way. The other few times I've just forgotten conversations or experiences I've had with my friends but they always catch me up on what I'm missing .
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Quote from: Saira128 on April 27, 2017, 10:24:21 AM
I'm feeling a bit better since the past few days. I guess, the ECT and r-TMS worked.
I talked about hrt with my parents.
I am overweight, and it seems I can't start hrt till I reduce my weight.
So I have a very long wait.
I hope you're doing well and feeling better everyday. I wish you the best possible outcome. Don't stop pushing! It's really worth it, and you really deserve it.
Cheer up!
Quote from: Saira128 on April 27, 2017, 10:24:21 AM
I'm feeling a bit better since the past few days. I guess, the ECT and r-TMS worked.
I talked about hrt with my parents.
I am overweight, and it seems I can't start hrt till I reduce my weight.
So I have a very long wait.
Saira, what's your height and weight? That sounds like pure gatekeeping, you can use either patches or injections to obviate any concerns about estrogen and weight. Also BMI is an improper measure of body fat for taller people, I seem to remember you're quite tall.
Ect was invented in the 1930s, it is well know for the side effects of loss of memory amongst other things
Recently the American psychiatric assoc has been lobbying the fda for Ect to be reclassified from the the most dangerous category to a lower one so that it can be used on children under 16.
Naturally they will espouse it's supposed benefits but I doubt there aĺre any
Dena's comment about a witch doctor is true.....
Me myself I take a low dose of sertraline (zolof) the initial side effects were annoying but now it's good
I wouldn't recommend pyschiatric drugs to anyone though but used correctly they can give you some breathing _space better while you dig your way out
Anyway good luck but please don't let them Ect you it's primitive.....
Quote from: ElliotHarrison on May 16, 2017, 10:06:03 PM
What kind of memory loss have you experienced, if you don't mind me asking?
I've only experienced memory loss a few times since I've been doing ECT. The first time I was driving to school and I just completely forgot how to get there even though I had been driving there 5 days a week, every week for four years. That was pretty scary but I just used the GPS on my phone to find my way. The other few times I've just forgotten conversations or experiences I've had with my friends but they always catch me up on what I'm missing .
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I forget simple things, like I forgot where I bought my guitar the last week, I forgot how much it cost.
I also forgot some things that I said to my parents. Its honestly not that bad, I just feel uncomfortable not being in control.
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Quote from: Wednesday on May 17, 2017, 01:54:15 PM
I hope you're doing well and feeling better everyday. I wish you the best possible outcome. Don't stop pushing! It's really worth it, and you really deserve it.
Cheer up!
Thank you so much....I'll keep pushing.
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Quote from: SadieBlake on May 17, 2017, 04:48:12 PM
Saira, what's your height and weight? That sounds like pure gatekeeping, you can use either patches or injections to obviate any concerns about estrogen and weight. Also BMI is an improper measure of body fat for taller people, I seem to remember you're quite tall.
I don't know. The doc says there's increased risk of heart problems.
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Quote from: Saira128 on May 18, 2017, 02:08:55 AM
I don't know. The doc says there's increased risk of heart problems.
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Unless you have other very specific risk factors, I'd really not think this is a problem. Are you talking to an endocrinologist ot a general practitioner or some other specialty?
Have you learned about
first pass metabolism? This is the effect when a medication is taken orally, as it enters the blood stream that blood all goes directly to the liver. In the case of estrogen, this results in a huge fraction being immediately converted to estrone which does have significant risk factors.
Both injected and transdermal administration avoid this, effectively delivering a much greater fraction of the delivered dose in the estrogen form. The main risk of orally administered estrogen is causing blood clots which is why injected or patches are more often prescribed for older trans women who are at higher risk.
I suggest if possible, get seen by an endocrinologist.
Hugs,
S