Hi,
I have been struggling with this for ages and I just feel so lost. I am a trans woman but I am not very girly, I like motorbikes, wearing jeans and t-shirts, drinking beer, I am not very feminine at all. However, I feel like I can't be a trans women and dress the way I dress or have the full sleeve tattoos I want, I feel like an imposter, like I am not girly enough and it is really messing with me as all other trans women I have seen are really girly and like girly things, I feel like if I am not like that I can't be trans, has anyone got any experience with feeling like this and if so how did you cope and deal wth it?
Your description of your interests reminds me almost entirely of my cis female friend. Don't get discouraged, I'm not that girly either (only when I want to be).
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You definitely don't have to be "girly". You are a girl, and whatever it is you want to do will be a girl doing the activity that you like. You aren't obligated to conform to any group.
Thank you that does make me feel better, I do find it annoying the way trans women are showed in the media I come from a small town, I have never met another trans woman in my life so my only knowledge comes from what I see in the media, super feminine trans women,so I feel like because I don't match that standard I am not trans enough. Also, thank you axolotl that helps a lot too,I do feel like sometimes I need to fit into the trans group to be trans but yeah you are right I don't need to fit into norms to be trans.
Quote from: bexxyab on May 01, 2017, 08:25:57 AM
I feel like if I am not like that I can't be trans, has anyone got any experience with feeling like this and if so how did you cope and deal wth it?
I like watching WBNA basketball games. Great for easing my dysphoria, but their shooting really sucks. Maybe it's the lack of upper body strength.
I do the same just with cycling and rugby. :)
Be yourself. Let nature run it's course, I'm in a similar situation. Started mtf hrt a month ago, and the results are soothing.one day at a time seems to work for me.
Thank you that helps a lot. :)
I think things change a bit when t goes down. One of the effects I think I've had from low t is less interest in such things. I used to ride 8k+ miles a year, now I'm lucky to do 1500. No interest in hunting anymore either or doing fix up work. Could be something else as I could be using post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy, but there seems to be a coincidence. I'd make a wager if I went on e, it might seal the deal.
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That would make sense as a lot of these activities are t driven so maybe once I start on e I might become more feminine, but I hope I still have an interest in riding at least because I do love it, even though it is not very girly.
Ladies you really need to step away from the stereotypes of what a woman should be. They come in all types including some very tomboyish ones. It is just males that are slammed into strict this is how you should act and dress modes.
I don't think its a good idea to judge yourself by others. Its like we have all this difficulty with accepting we're not cis, and then go and repeat the problem with not being trans in the right way. I prefer to think that I'm me, but I'm not quite sure what that is just yet. I look at others as a way of exploring, not with the aim of being them.
Also, look up "a Girl for all seasons" on YouTube. I don't think anyone would doubt she's a woman, even though she races cars.
That is a very good mindset to have and just have seems like a really good channel. :)
Quote from: Gertrude on May 01, 2017, 09:23:36 AM
I think things change a bit when t goes down. One of the effects I think I've had from low t is less interest in such things. ...No interest in hunting anymore either...
I still hunt and want to badly. I use a bow my aunt gave me, and when I bought a crossbow I bought a pink camo one. :) I go out hunting by myself. My wife has no interest in such things. I don't feel less female when I do, either. I have posted elsewhere on here that I still do all the stereotypical male stuff as I did before and I have zero T and have had none for years now. I do things that keep me grounded in my femininity, though, so maybe it is a balance that I strike that does not make me feel like you do, bexxyab? But, I still do all tractor repairs, bush hog repairs, outdoor work, septic repair, hvac at my house, etc. I love tattoos, too. Sports are on my TV more than anything else. Granted, my wife is a sports junkie, too, and she is cis. Maybe that helps me feel better about it? My daughter's friends will come in the house and say "Man, you guys watch all sports, don't you?".
Don't box yourself into sterotypes. Be yourself, and if your gender is female, what you do does not change that. :)
I think that may be right I have not really done much girly stuff so maybe that is why I feel like this. It does make me feel much more comfortable to know that there are more trans women out there who still like stereotypical male stuff as I don't feel as alone. Also, you are totally right about stereotypes after reading these comments I realize being trans is not what you do but what you are, I feel much happier being the cool biker chick with the tattoos that I am, I am thinking tattoo wise a phoenix for one arm like the real me being born again from the ashes of my previous self.
No matter what I chose to do or what I look like, the most important thing is that I accept myself. Keep in mind, many of us have only changed just a little. The rest stays the same. Change what you want and keep what you want.
I think that is a good thing too, I'm transitioning for me not anyone else so I just have to do me and that is all that matters, no one else needs to accept me as long as I accept myself.
Quote from: bexxyab on May 01, 2017, 08:25:57 AM
Hi,
I have been struggling with this for ages and I just feel so lost. I am a trans woman but I am not very girly, I like motorbikes, wearing jeans and t-shirts, drinking beer, I am not very feminine at all. However, I feel like I can't be a trans women and dress the way I dress or have the full sleeve tattoos I want, I feel like an imposter, like I am not girly enough and it is really messing with me as all other trans women I have seen are really girly and like girly things, I feel like if I am not like that I can't be trans, has anyone got any experience with feeling like this and if so how did you cope and deal wth it?
I've met a lot of trans women like you in person, and I try to stay away from them because they're typically the type to hit on me, whenever I'm really just looking for friends... I befriended a local trans woman, who took me out to her garage, revved her motorcycle at me, and showed off her guns to me (extremely uncomfortable).
Nonetheless, you're not her, obviously. I guess, when I hear things like this, though, I get confused. I'm not trying to challenge your identity, but butch trans women perplex me. See, at the very core of who I am, as a woman, is the desire to please and attract men.
It seriously drives everything, from my success in voice training, to my desire to develop a good fashion sense, to my development of very feminine mannerisms. Attention from them makes me feel validated as a woman, and I really don't know how someone would transition, MTF, without a longing to be femme and attract them!
So, my conclusion is: If you're someone who behaves in a masculine manner, and you expect to stay that way despite potentially transitioning, you'd basically be socially male/masculine and physically female/feminine. That said, do you not experience dysphoria about doing masculine things?
K.C.
Quote from: femfem on May 01, 2017, 11:04:08 AM
...and I really don't know how someone would transition, MTF, without a longing to be femme and attract them!
Because I am a lesbian. Pretty simple.
First of all, as a trans woman, I thought you would understand the dangers of steryotypes I am not like that, also I do not aim to please men as I am lesbian so yes I am attracted to women but don't act like that. Also, I don't judge but if you form your entire identity around pleasing others that speaks more about you than me. Also, all because I do masculine things does not mean I act in a masculine manner, I can ride a motorbike, get tattoos in a feminine manner. And doing manly things in a manly way does cause me dysphoria I was in the army for 5 months and being forced to act in such a masculine manner made me rock myself to sleep crying every night and I nearly killed myself, several times due to how being forced to act this way made me feel . Also define a good fashion sense I want to rock the biker chick look, which is fashion, fashion is a personal thing to me. And I will develop female mannerisms and a female voice, I still want to be a woman I just enjoy motorbikes and tattoos like many women do. So to conclude yes I may do so-called masculine things but I do them in a feminine way while being a woman.
Quote from: ainsley on May 01, 2017, 11:27:29 AM
Because I am a lesbian. Pretty simple.
That really is simple, which is why I had already alluded to it in my contribution to this post. However, I'm bisexual, and am still femme.
Are you attracted to butch lesbian women, or to femme lesbian women? Nonetheless, thanks for the terse response; sorry to have offended you lol.
K.C.
Well said, bexxyab. :)
Also, do not confuse gender identity with sexual orientation, femfem. They are two separate things and one does not drive the other. I have been married to a woman longer than you have been alive. Why would I suddenly be forced to stop being with her because I am MTF under your plan?
femfem, all the posts prior to yours explained how stereotypes of what it is to be female are not what makes one female and you drop in here and lay down a stereotypical view of MTF women? :rollsEyes:
Let's be supportive and understanding about other people's views and perceptions. I think it is great that you feel the way you do, femfem, and I support your right to, but please avoid denigrating other MTF people when they don't fit your mold.
Quote from: femfem on May 01, 2017, 11:04:08 AM
So, my conclusion is: If you're someone who behaves in a masculine manner, and you expect to stay that way despite potentially transitioning, you'd basically be socially male/masculine and physically female/feminine. That said, do you not experience dysphoria about doing masculine things?
K.C.
My dysphoria was a gender issue. It had nothing to do with hobbies, clothes, makeup or sex with men.
Yes I was socialized for over 50 years as male and these do not change overnight just because I had surgery. All of these attributes which are typically female in nature, may or may not apply to me. Many of my "male" activities are slowly going away as I find a new appreciation for typically female activities. One thing I will say, all of my old activities also had a few women involved as well.
To each their own. :)
I think that is the key, to each to their own. We may all be trans here but first and foremost we are people, people with hobbies, like and dislikes, having a certain dress style or hobby does not make you a woman it is who you are inside that makes you a woman.
Quote from: bexxyab on May 01, 2017, 11:36:27 AM
First of all, as a trans woman, I thought you would understand the dangers of steryotypes I am not like that, also I do not aim to please men as I am lesbian so yes I am attracted to women but don't act like that. Also, I don't judge but if you form your entire identity around pleasing others that speaks more about you than me. Also, all because I do masculine things does not mean I act in a masculine manner, I can ride a motorbike, get tattoos in a feminine manner. And doing manly things in a manly way does cause me dysphoria I was in the army for 5 months and being forced to act in such a masculine manner made me rock myself to sleep crying every night and I nearly killed myself, several times due to how being forced to act this way made me feel . Also define a good fashion sense I want to rock the biker chick look, which is fashion, fashion is a personal thing to me. And I will develop female mannerisms and a female voice, I still want to be a woman I just enjoy motorbikes and tattoos like many women do. So to conclude yes I may do so-called masculine things but I do them in a feminine way while being a woman.
I've been transitioning for quite awhile, and when you reach my stage, you sort of drop the whole "don't stereotype; it's insensitive" mentality, because you realize how unreasonable it is.
With exceptions, generally, butch-behaving trans woman are lesbian-identified (I was correct there)---and generally, lesbian trans women hit on the femme ones. This is no more dangerous than assuming that a cisgender butch lesbian is into cisgender femme lesbians. That's just how it works generally.
So, when I say that butch trans women have historically hit on me a lot, and have made me feel uncomfortable, it's not a radical statement. I actually no longer attend trans support group meetings because I got sick of this! I want fiends, not partners!
Regarding my attraction towards men driving my progress as a woman, why do you think cis women strive to look so feminine? They're trying to impress men, as well as peers, but largely men. That's kind of the primary reason behind why women tend to act submissive and dress fashionably. If and when they don't do either, they tend to be attracted to the same gender, and therefore only have the desire to behave femininely if they're wanting to attract more butch lesbians. Again, there are exceptions, but this is how it goes generally!
And it's awesome that you'd still socially transition despite liking masculine things. You never know, though---you may become more feminine than you anticipated. I behaved a lot more guy-like before transitioning, not that I went hunting or fixed cars, but I was still somewhat more masculine. Now I'm all-woman. No one can deny that, not even most straight guys, which I tend to date a lot of.
K.C.
Having talked to many women of cis background that is rubbish, surprise most women look nice because they want to look good for themselves not to please others. Also, you must be a bit full of yourself if you think every lesbian trans woman is flirting with you, I just think you are that self-centric that you can't fathom that butch trans women don't all want to get into your pants and if they ever dare talk to a goddess like you they must be flirting, get a life and maybe while you are at it clear that toxic mindset out.
Quote from: Dani on May 01, 2017, 11:49:47 AM
My dysphoria was a gender issue. It had nothing to do with hobbies, clothes, makeup or sex with men.
Yes I was socialized for over 50 years as male and these do not change overnight just because I had surgery. All of these attributes which are typically female in nature, may or may not apply to me. Many of my "male" activities are slowly going away as I find a new appreciation for typically female activities. One thing I will say, all of my old activities also had a few women involved as well.
To each their own. :)
But "gender" *is* your hobbies, clothes, etc. Obviously, it's other things as well, but gender is largely your identity and your behaviors. Maybe it's sufficient to say that you had dysphoria about your sex, which I can relate to.
Given that a lot of trans women may go so far as to take hormones and get SRS, yet not behave in a feminine manner (by their own submission), it could be said that a great deal of them are actually having dysphoria about their sex more than their gender. After all, genitalia situation = primary *sexual* characteristic, while skin/chest/build = secondary *sexual* characteristics.
Gender is one's way of interfacing with society, as governed largely by their behaviors, obviously. Again, not trying to be intolerant, but when I hear about people wanting to transition yet not adopting feminine behaviors, I actually think of them as being the inverse of some more flamboyant gay men. More flamboyant gay men (with exceptions!) tend to behave very, very girly, but don't undergo HRT to become trans women.
But their identity is that of a gay man because that's how they socialize and interface with the world. What's the identity of a butch trans woman?
Quote from: femfem on May 01, 2017, 12:02:01 PM
So, when I say that butch trans women have historically hit on me a lot, and have made me feel uncomfortable, it's not a radical statement. I actually no longer attend trans support group meetings because I got sick of this! I want fiends, not partners!
Exactly how I feel, except I am 67 years old, financially stable and have little interest in a personal relationship.
Quote
why do you think cis women strive to look so feminine? They're trying to impress men, as well as peers, but largely men. That's kind of the primary reason behind why women tend to act submissive and dress fashionably.
K.C.
Yes, some women seek financial security with their looks. But not all.
Quote
But their identity is that of a gay man because that's how they socialize and interface with the world. What's the identity of a butch trans woman?
A butch trans woman.
Not to be facetious, but that is exactly what they are. I am not. You obviously have no interest. So tell them that!
There's a certain pragmatism to some stereotypes, but they can't be depended on... As many people as there are who don't mind being stereotypical, there are also those who would do the opposite just to buck the stereotype, and also those who won't pay it any attention and just do what they want. Stereotypes serve the purpose of aiding in interpreting the actions of other people when you don't know much about them, it's a surrogate for information, but too many people use it as a substitute for information they already know instead, that's when a stereotype becomes a dangerous insult.
In regards to the OP, your interests do not define your gender, if you are female but like motorbikes and tattoos, then rock that. She is.
(https://68.media.tumblr.com/d482860774a2a49502550df54fc5876d/tumblr_o4go12TiIl1u2mncuo1_1280.jpg)
The woman who showed me that you don't need to be feminine was my ex. So somehow without doing it consciously she open my mind to the possibility of transitioning.
I'm low on T and high on E for quit some time now. I'm more emotional for the better but also sometimes not so.
I still like (my) cars and I will try to earn enough to keep them. I still like Marvel, Epic (Fantasy) Battles, I drink beer but also wine and champagne. I dress sporty and (business) casual but also classy. Oh I love my marlene trousers. A lot of cis women do the same.
I don't want to be forced from one corner into the other corner by the expectations of others. It feels so good to be able to DGAF about a lot of things.
I,m a trans women who likes nothing more that to just jump on my dirt bikes & forget the crap in your life for a few hours, I have tatoos & multiple piercings you can be a girly trans but be a steel wielder, the biker chick just go for it.
Quote from: bexxyab on May 01, 2017, 12:10:28 PM
Having talked to many women of cis background that is rubbish, surprise most women look nice because they want to look good for themselves not to please others. Also, you must be a bit full of yourself if you think every lesbian trans woman is flirting with you, I just think you are that self-centric that you can't fathom that butch trans women don't all want to get into your pants and if they ever dare talk to a goddess like you they must be flirting, get a life and maybe while you are at it clear that toxic mindset out.
I'm not full of myself (at all), but I do think very differently from the greater trans community because I transitioned almost entirely in secrecy, with exception to my porn endeavors.
I do not think like you; that does not mean I should be alienated or insulted. You should actually embrace and try to metabolize my viewpoints. That's crucial to developing one's identity.
Now , regarding the trans women who have tried to get with me, this isn't me saying, "OMG she looked at me. She must want me sexually!" I'm 23 and am established as an IT professional---and am also legally female and cultured. I don't think like a teenage girl.
Rather, what I'm alluding to is that many trans women have legitimately asked me for my number (which I always complied because I want friends), and later started voicing that they have a crush on me. One identifies entirely as a straight woman, yet she looked me up and down in my yoga pants for the entirety of the 1-hour group meeting. Then she stared at my crotch region (again as I'm wearing yoga pants) long and hard, as I walked off the the restroom to collect myself. I felt scrutinized as can be, and *then* she approached me after the meeting, and essentially chatted me up. I got home and had a FB friend request from her. That's not at all how cis women treat me.
One more example: I went to a party last summer, dressed as a school girl. Largely, guys had been approaching me all night long, and I even made out with one. However---literally as I was making out with that guy---a trans woman tapped on my shoulder and asked me what my name was. I told her, and she sat down on the other side of me and told me she found me very attractive and wanted to buy me a drink. Again, this was a trans woman, and it was evident to everyone because she didn't pass. Now, here's the real kicker: She didn't know I was trans too until I told her. To her, she was approaching a pretty girl (because she likes them), and the girl just so happened to be trans.
Thus, of course lesbian trans women have tried to get with me. You can't really spin my experiences any other way. This is not me being fill of myself
K.C.
I think you are massively confused gender is your identity so if someone walks, talks and acts in a feminine way and they choose to identify as a woman well guess what, they are a woman. Also, describe a feminine 60-70 years ago it was un-lady like to go out and get a job, never marry. But things have changed there is not a stereotypical woman, women come in all different ways from women who enjoy "manly things" to the polar opposite, a blonde princess who loves everything pink and is extremely vain.Also to say that people don't act as what you call feminine don't have gender dysphoria only have a problem with their genitals is not only backward but extremely dangerous.
Come on you can't think someone asking for your number just wanted to be your friend. Also, the other straight women might have done that out of sheer curiosity, you obviously have been trans for a while maybe curiosity to if she would ever look like that and be able to pull yoga pants off.That last one whats wrongs with someone asked to buy you a drink not the right time, but you just so no thanks and that is the end of you and her not knowing you are trans, what has that got do with a trans girl asking you out?
Quote from: femfem on May 01, 2017, 12:29:15 PM
I'm not full of myself (at all)...
Yes, you are.
Quote from: femfem on May 01, 2017, 12:29:15 PM
I'm 23 and am established as an IT professional---and am also legally female and cultured.
No, at 23 you are not established professionally in IT.
Quote from: femfem on May 01, 2017, 12:29:15 PM
I don't think like a teenage girl.
Yes, you do.
Quote from: femfem on May 01, 2017, 12:29:15 PM
This is not me being fill [sic] of myself
K.C.
Yep, I am afraid so.
You could not be more off from reality for trans women. You are who you are, but you are siloed in your thinking and perceptions and should stop making generalizations and broad sweeping assessments.
I love to be cleaned up and looking as best I can, but I still love My cars and gaming, and working out doors. I definitely don't worry about what people think of these things, I am proud of it
Stereotypes are not that helpful. Human brains often strive for short cuts but lose the nuances and diversity that makes the world great. I know a lot of tomboy type women and also very femme women that do what are traditionally very male things.
I mountain climb and play football. There has been some masculine-sterotype things that i have lost interest in but that is just my evolving interest.
Yeah and sexuality and gender expression/identity are vastly different things. Women do not usually dress for men, we dress for ourselves. Do we want to look good? certainly but letting other people dictate how you express yourself get's really old.
I've a feeling I have a different view on these things.
My primary goal in all this is not to be a woman, but to stop all the crazy and be happy. My secondary goal is to be a woman because that whats I believe I am and how I can meet my primary goal.
So far so good, but if I find otherwise it doesn't really matter as long as I'm going in the right direction and getting happier. Its a matter of exploration and seeing how I feel as I go along until I reach a point of optimum happiness.
I've no issue with having male interests because I do have male interests. Its who I am and I'm not going to change that because of other people. If that makes me less a "women", even if that's a matter of opinion, its not important because being a woman is not really the point of all this.
I feel its important to separate the social pressure I feel to conform from who I actually am. There's been significant internal generated social pressure to be cis, but that's a lost cause at this point. I still present male after 8 years on HRT so I don't get any social pressure from others, but not really happy about the hiding all the time.
I can't say how I feel presenting and being treated as female since I've not experienced it yet. Its going to be a bit awkward if I find I'm non-binary and need to present that way because I'm sure I'd find that social pressure very difficult to deal with. I'd still accept it as my identity though.
I've certain feelings that I find validating as female. That's good because it shows me I've done the right thing, and I'm going in the right direction. It makes me happy.
I think that is the thing a stereotype is fine until you know different and if you don't amend that after you realize that stereotype is wrong then it is bigoted. I also think that DGAF attitude is the best as if you just conformed to society standards I think life would be very boring indeed. Also totally agree with you that jobs and hobbies don't define you, a more butch trans woman might work as a makeup artist while a girly trans women might work in construction, it is not your hobbies or job that define your gender but what you feel.
You do what make you happy anonyMs that is all that matters. I agree stereotypes are for the lazy, to learn about an issue eradicates those stereotypes and that shoe boxing. I think what 99% of people are saying is that they do them and DGAF about what others think which is great because screw stereotypes and shoe boxing.
Quote from: femfem on May 01, 2017, 12:29:15 PM
I'm not full of myself (at all), but I do think very differently from the greater trans community because I transitioned almost entirely in secrecy, with exception to my porn endeavors.
I do not think like you; that does not mean I should be alienated or insulted. You should actually embrace and try to metabolize my viewpoints. That's crucial to developing one's identity.
Now , regarding the trans women who have tried to get with me, this isn't me saying, "OMG she looked at me. She must want me sexually!" I'm 23 and am established as an IT professional---and am also legally female and cultured. I don't think like a teenage girl.
Rather, what I'm alluding to is that many trans women have legitimately asked me for my number (which I always complied because I want friends), and later started voicing that they have a crush on me. One identifies entirely as a straight woman, yet she looked me up and down in my yoga pants for the entirety of the 1-hour group meeting. Then she stared at my crotch region (again as I'm wearing yoga pants) long and hard, as I walked off the the restroom to collect myself. I felt scrutinized as can be, and *then* she approached me after the meeting, and essentially chatted me up. I got home and had a FB friend request from her. That's not at all how cis women treat me.
One more example: I went to a party last summer, dressed as a school girl. Largely, guys had been approaching me all night long, and I even made out with one. However---literally as I was making out with that guy---a trans woman tapped on my shoulder and asked me what my name was. I told her, and she sat down on the other side of me and told me she found me very attractive and wanted to buy me a drink. Again, this was a trans woman, and it was evident to everyone because she didn't pass. Now, here's the real kicker: She didn't know I was trans too until I told her. To her, she was approaching a pretty girl (because she likes them), and the girl just so happened to be trans.
Thus, of course lesbian trans women have tried to get with me. You can't really spin my experiences any other way. This is not me being fill of myself
K.C.
Hi K.C.,
I really wish you would put yourself in the shoes of other transgender people and realize how hurtful some of your comments are. Most in this community haven't had the benefit of transitioning at a young age, most aren't gorgeous, many have struggled with family and societal rejection. Most transgender would love to have your life but can't. So I hope you can find it in your heart to have a bit of empathy for the whole community.
As for your anecdotes, I don't see how you can draw the conclusion that your negative experiences were the result of a transgender person not passing well or enjoying stereotypical male endeavors. It sounds like quite the stretch to me.
Anyway, take care,
Paige :)
Quote from: bexxyab on May 01, 2017, 08:25:57 AM
Hi,
I have been struggling with this for ages and I just feel so lost. I am a trans woman but I am not very girly, I like motorbikes, wearing jeans and t-shirts, drinking beer, I am not very feminine at all. However, I feel like I can't be a trans women and dress the way I dress or have the full sleeve tattoos I want, I feel like an imposter, like I am not girly enough and it is really messing with me as all other trans women I have seen are really girly and like girly things, I feel like if I am not like that I can't be trans, has anyone got any experience with feeling like this and if so how did you cope and deal wth it?
Want to know what some of my very delicate, feminine fiancée's favorite things are?
Tattoos (she just got a half sleeve four days ago and already has a large back and forearm piece), drinking beer, eating massive steaks, coveting crotch rocket motorcycles, building things, remodeling (plumbing, dry walling, painting, etc.), using power tools and cursing like a sailor.
100% ciswoman, but, more importantly, 100% woman.
Seriously, be who you want.
As trans individuals, we spend so much of our lives stuffed in a box of someone else's design; it's time to build your own space now.
Can't agree more most of these comments have been really supportive, what are stereotypical female activities anyway? Shopping, spas, and makeup, yes, of course, I can enjoy these things and do them from time to time but that isn't a hobby to me I shop because it is rewarding and I do enjoy new clothes, I like spas to relax but find a ride can be relaxing but in a different sense and makeup I do want to wear and would enjoy wearing for myself but is not a hobby. Also, I think the femfem is just trying to make any excuse to see anybody who does not fit her idea of a woman is not a woman and just men who hate their penises. Sad to see transphobia by a trans woman.
I agree with femfem when she challenges the idea that gender roles and sex roles are totally separate when obviously for femfem they are not. I think this applies to many trans women. I personally know women like this. Why not accept femfem's view point as just as valid as any other?
Quote from: bexxyab on May 01, 2017, 08:25:57 AM
Hi,
I have been struggling with this for ages and I just feel so lost. I am a trans woman but I am not very girly, I like motorbikes, wearing jeans and t-shirts, drinking beer, I am not very feminine at all. However, I feel like I can't be a trans women and dress the way I dress or have the full sleeve tattoos I want, I feel like an imposter, like I am not girly enough and it is really messing with me as all other trans women I have seen are really girly and like girly things, I feel like if I am not like that I can't be trans, has anyone got any experience with feeling like this and if so how did you cope and deal wth it?
I don't know how old you are but I think I can empathize. For 64 years I had testosterone coursing through my veins. My femme self has always been hidden. I've had a career for forty years, as a guy. I can't ignore an Angel game since 1961. Aside for my love of baseball there is nothing all that male about me. But I can't escape my height, nor my big feet, my poor posture. I lift weights and nothing happens, I have no interest in cars, sports save one, have a different point of view on women.I am 65 years old and Dawn has been in the shadows all my life. Hidden and neglected because of everyone else objection to me wearing a dress, putting on makeup and fixing my hair. I figured if I could not dress to look good, I would dress as grungy as possible. Is there any wonder I hated my inch long penis? I could not function in either capacity, male or female. When I attend a funeral, people tell me I look good in a suit. But, in the back of my mind I think I would look better in a black dress. I've never really thought about it sexually although I have thought about having my own babies. I spread my legs and the doctor plucks Jesus from between my thighs. Think Immaculate Conception. My "new" wife of thirty one years and I were fortunate enough to have two fabulous babies. Making them was the most male thing I have ever done. It also brought out my nurturing side. as I woke up nights, changed diapers, fed them, bathed them, read books to them. Shortly after my daughters birth my wife and I stopped having sex. I love my wife dearly but having sex is just not that important and somewhat embarrassing, Really I am not out to attract anyone. I have always been transgender as it was predetermined at birth due to the care or lack thereof my mother was given. After my body was formed incomplete, my brain was influenced by estrogen doses 3000 to 5,000 times more than a birth control pill administered numerous times over the last 7 months, of my mom's pregnancy.
Here is an explanation I found on Quora by Joshua Engle https://www.quora.com/What-causes-a-person-to-be-transgender Good luck with your journey and don't worry about tatoos and riding motorcycles.
Hi, bexxyab.
No one has asked the most important question :o What ya riding ?
I've been riding since I was 4 years old and whilst I am quite girly ;) I still ride off road and am very sporty. Just be who you are. The world will still turn around.
Paula, X.
Only a scooter for now but my dream bike is a triumph Bonneville. Live in the Uk and only 18 so a twist and go was the way to go. Also, Jane, my problem is not that part but the fact she is saying in her view that unless you fit gender norms your just a straight person who hates their penis. I have no problems with views but when they are used to say because I am not girly enough I can't be trans just a straight person who hates my penis, that to me is transphobia and I will call that out on a site like this where no one is meant to feel unwelcome.
Sorry meant I was looking at getting a scooter have not got one yet but really want one.
Quote from: ainsley on May 01, 2017, 10:16:55 AM
I still hunt and want to badly. I use a bow my aunt gave me, and when I bought a crossbow I bought a pink camo one. :) I go out hunting by myself. My wife has no interest in such things. I don't feel less female when I do, either. I have posted elsewhere on here that I still do all the stereotypical male stuff as I did before and I have zero T and have had none for years now. I do things that keep me grounded in my femininity, though, so maybe it is a balance that I strike that does not make me feel like you do, bexxyab? But, I still do all tractor repairs, bush hog repairs, outdoor work, septic repair, hvac at my house, etc. I love tattoos, too. Sports are on my TV more than anything else. Granted, my wife is a sports junkie, too, and she is cis. Maybe that helps me feel better about it? My daughter's friends will come in the house and say "Man, you guys watch all sports, don't you?".
Don't box yourself into sterotypes. Be yourself, and if your gender is female, what you do does not change that. :)
It's not a conscious thing, it's just like I've lost interest and don't know why. I used to ride every day and hunt at least a couple times a year. Deer, elk and sometimes small game. I used to like just getting outside. Now, not so much.
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Neither am I, ride a Harley Davidson Sportster (10,000 miles last year) & go to the punk rock festival every year. Never wear skirts or dresses wear makeup 2 or 3 times a year. Also like muscle cars. Used to work on my bikes & cars & other peoples.
I think what it comes down to really is people are people so we have hobbies and we gain and lose interests over time, I think also with the losing interests due to losing T I think that might be a bit of a coincidence because I am not saying it is not the reason but reading stuff on other forums from other trans people a lot say that their hobbies didn't change or they did but due to natural loss of interest.
femfem I assume your happy with your transition, that "your" definition of MtF is absolutely right "for you". I've had 68 years to get to know me though under a year with HRT and I can assure you with 100% confidence that none of your posts describe me or has anything to do with me, not in the slightest. I have no doubt that in your mind I am from not trans at all or at best much less than you. That's fine, I can easily live with that with zero effect on me. It may be good advice to you that you stop looking down your nose at other trans folks.
One of the greatest things about people is how completely different we all are, trans or not. What a horrible horrible world it would be if we were all carbon copies in cookie cutter world.
Quote from: femfem on May 01, 2017, 12:02:01 PM
I've been transitioning for quite awhile, and when you reach my stage, you sort of drop the whole "don't stereotype; it's insensitive" mentality, because you realize how unreasonable it is.
With exceptions, generally, butch-behaving trans woman are lesbian-identified (I was correct there)---and generally, lesbian trans women hit on the femme ones. This is no more dangerous than assuming that a cisgender butch lesbian is into cisgender femme lesbians. That's just how it works generally.
So, when I say that butch trans women have historically hit on me a lot, and have made me feel uncomfortable, it's not a radical statement. I actually no longer attend trans support group meetings because I got sick of this! I want fiends, not partners!
Regarding my attraction towards men driving my progress as a woman, why do you think cis women strive to look so feminine? They're trying to impress men, as well as peers, but largely men. That's kind of the primary reason behind why women tend to act submissive and dress fashionably. If and when they don't do either, they tend to be attracted to the same gender, and therefore only have the desire to behave femininely if they're wanting to attract more butch lesbians. Again, there are exceptions, but this is how it goes generally!
And it's awesome that you'd still socially transition despite liking masculine things. You never know, though---you may become more feminine than you anticipated. I behaved a lot more guy-like before transitioning, not that I went hunting or fixed cars, but I was still somewhat more masculine. Now I'm all-woman. No one can deny that, not even most straight guys, which I tend to date a lot of.
K.C.
For over 30 years it was chicks like you that I would avoid like the plague because you would get that kind of idea if i talked to you. Conversely I would get straight chicks mad at me because i would not check them out and flirt with them. I had one (from a group we both went to) actually walk up to me and ask me what was wrong with her. I was shocked and said what? She said you don't check me out or talk to me or flirt with me. Am I ugly, is it the hair, am I fat? I was you're straight why would I hit on you?
Men talk to women with the idea of flirting with them. You are entering a different world and women talk to women all the time without any sexual motive in mind this includes lesbians. Yes there are some who hit on others but they are pretty straightforward about it and don't beat around the bush. Lesbians as a whole are generally a more shy lot then gay men or straight men. They get braver after a few drinks but they are not as bold as a rule as men. Like it or not there are differences between men and women and as a former lesbian who has observed the community for years i can see the differences. So get it out of your head that any woman who talks to you is wanting to get you to bed.
I just think it is down to that same vainness you get from a lot of young women these days, I am 18 and compare the women of my age to 5 years ago they are so much more full of themselves and have a god complex like there Aphrodite or something. I watch a lot of younger women on youtube and they give the older trans women such bad rep like there all jealous, old hags but after talking to older trans women I realized it is not the older women but the younger women to blame with their vainness and skin-deep look at things, I know this makes me sound like a bit of a hater but from what I have seen it is true.
Quote from: bexxyab on May 01, 2017, 08:25:57 AM
Hi,
I have been struggling with this for ages and I just feel so lost. I am a trans woman but I am not very girly, I like motorbikes, wearing jeans and t-shirts, drinking beer, I am not very feminine at all. However, I feel like I can't be a trans women and dress the way I dress or have the full sleeve tattoos I want, I feel like an imposter, like I am not girly enough and it is really messing with me as all other trans women I have seen are really girly and like girly things, I feel like if I am not like that I can't be trans, has anyone got any experience with feeling like this and if so how did you cope and deal with it?
What do you identify as? a woman that makes you a woman. Simple as that. Bikes is not a gender thing but an adrenaline thing. Drinking beer is not a gender thing but a taste thing you just like beer. Wearing t shirts and jeans is not a gender thing but a style thing and that is your style. I saw a couple of woman with full sleeve tattoos that look so feminine it is gorgeous. Don't let this things get into your head and make you feel any less authentic.
Thank you, comments like yours have helped me accept myself for who I am no matter what I like or what I dress like, I have realized that I need to do things and wear things because I like them not because society says I should like them.
Quote from: bexxyab on May 03, 2017, 09:44:09 AM
Thank you, comments like yours have helped me accept myself for who I am no matter what I like or what I dress like, I have realized that I need to do things and wear things because I like them not because society says I should like them.
Bingo :) I couldn't agree more.
if you were born male and identify as female or vice versa, you are trans, simple as that.
anyone who discriminates against you for living your life in a way that makes you happy whilst harming no one, has issues and isn't worth wasting your time on.
I transitioned five years ago when I was 15 and pass really well (imo lol) and am super feminine in the way I dress and act, but I still love video games and firearms and anything that goes fast, and the guys (and girls) ive been with since then love that fact.
you could be the hairiest, manliest dude on the planet but if you spend the time and effort transitioning you are just as female as me or anyone else here, your interests and personal style be damned.
You're over thinking it hun. There all sorts of girls out there with different interests if you think you're alone just just take a ride to scourges forgive me if I'm not spelling that correctly I myself am not a biker but I know people who are and you will fit right in.
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Thank you, I have realized due to comments like yours that I just have to be me and DNGAF about what others think and just rock whatever I wear or do.
Similar to me, when I dress feminine, I wear more like womens boots, ripped skinny jeans, womens t-ishirt and a womens leather jacket, and I am loving that look. I like cars, airplanes and computers, not usually I feel like I need to really dress up, maybe I have't gotten to that level yet. https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154539605765732&set=a.10151443970795732.1073741827.503650731&type=3 (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10154539605765732&set=a.10151443970795732.1073741827.503650731&type=3)
I love driving, classic cars and rugby, not the sort of thing one would assume is feminine yet regardless of wanting to transition or not they are my interests whether I have my male appearance or eventually female one, just go with what you enjoy as regardless of what society labels certain activities in the end both genders can enjoy. As far as fashion sense I always have worn what I want whether it be a tailcoat with jeans or something a little less stand outish as a male and I love Gothic/punk looks as a female. I'm proud of my I interests and fashion sense (or lack there of) and would never change that aspect of me to accommodate society nor should you feel you have to.