I Made my first appointment to get Electrolysis for June first. The Electrolysist I'm going to see charges $95 /hr and it's an hour drive there and back for me. So between that and that fact I don't make much money (and transitioning has other expenses) I'm only going to be able to go 1 hour every other week. I guess I'm just a little disheartened by the price and time it takes. I should start HRT next month and part of me is thinking to just put off electrolysis for a year or two until I'm in a better place financially and live closer to city with electrolysist. I mean estrogen slows facial hair growth right? Couldn't I just shave often? But I can afford the price for one hour twice a month so i guess what im wondering is it worth it to start now?
Quote from: Karmorda on May 08, 2017, 03:24:29 PM
I mean estrogen slows facial hair growth right? Couldn't I just shave often? But I can afford the price for one hour twice a month so i guess what im wondering is it worth it to start now?
So, I've been on HRT for like 4.5 months now. A moderate dose, and my experience so far is that hair everywhere else but my face has slowed in growth. My facial hair however, seems to have speed up. It's really really annoying. Like you I'm not in a place to afford electrolysis and I hate shaving my face.
Sorry if I put a damper on things. But not everyone's experiences are the same.
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Quote from: Karmorda on May 08, 2017, 03:24:29 PM
I Made my first appointment to get Electrolysis for June first. The Electrolysist I'm going to see charges $95 /hr and it's an hour drive there and back for me. So between that and that fact I don't make much money (and transitioning has other expenses) I'm only going to be able to go 1 hour every other week. I guess I'm just a little disheartened by the price and time it takes. I should start HRT next month and part of me is thinking to just put off electrolysis for a year or two until I'm in a better place financially and live closer to city with electrolysist. I mean estrogen slows facial hair growth right? Couldn't I just shave often? But I can afford the price for one hour twice a month so i guess what im wondering is it worth it to start now?
I have been on HRT nearly a year and yes it is finally beginning to slow...I pay $183aus per hour for mine which is on the expensive side but I have had bad experiences with cheap operators. If you have a dark beard you may get good laser results which is far cheaper and quicker as you treat the entire face in one sessions and it can make a significant difference when having to having to deal with shaving. Laser has its own issues and needs to be evaluated on an individual basis as YMMV. The problem is much harder on you as you move in to living full time. Depending on your finances it could take a few years to have the clearance. Having a beard changes the shape of your face, the longer you have it the tougher it is to remove, yes you can shave but if you are living fulltime and on HRT your skin may not stand up to full time shaving...my doesn't anymore.
One problem with having been on HRT for awhile is having to have somewhere between 4-6 days growth for the facial hair to be long enough for the Electrologist to work with. I was reluctant to go anywhere yesterday(but I did) because I had 4 days growth on my top lip which makes me really quite conscious of it. If I don't wear makeup I get misgendered and wearing makeup with a hairy lip can be quite dysphoric. (As an aside, the makeup doesn't suddenly make me pass but people tend not to be rude and if I am wearing makeup most equate makeup with women automatically)
If you are planning on going fulltime then I would encourage you to do as much as you can before then, finances permitting. Good luck and I hope you get great results
Liz
Quote from: Karmorda on May 08, 2017, 03:24:29 PM
I Made my first appointment to get Electrolysis for June first. The Electrolysist I'm going to see charges $95 /hr and it's an hour drive there and back for me. So between that and that fact I don't make much money (and transitioning has other expenses) I'm only going to be able to go 1 hour every other week. I guess I'm just a little disheartened by the price and time it takes. I should start HRT next month and part of me is thinking to just put off electrolysis for a year or two until I'm in a better place financially and live closer to city with electrolysist. I mean estrogen slows facial hair growth right? Couldn't I just shave often? But I can afford the price for one hour twice a month so i guess what im wondering is it worth it to start now?
Electrolysis
is expensive and time-consuming, which is why I've entirely foregone undergoing it. On top of that, I'm also somewhat darker-complected, and overall hirsute for a woman, though not to the point that it's a turn-off or something. I personally decided to undergo five laser-hair-removal sessions (two years ago), and the hair that has remained has been noticeable only to me.
I just do a quick shave twice a week so that my face doesn't have awkward peach fuzz on it, and count my losses. I have more reasonable things to save up my money for, such as breast implants lol.
But, again, this is only my opinion; most trans women probably think I'm crazy for never having undergone electrolysis. That said, yes, HRT can reduce facial hair growth, which happened with me, by the way. But, even for me (young transitioner), the reduction wasn't enough. Good luck. :)
It is time consuming and expensive. I've done over 200 hours since I started a little over two years ago. It is something you will want to get started on ASAP. Even if you can only do a little at a time it's best to get it out of the way now. The pain of the zaps gets worse the longer you are on HRT, at least for me. It's not something I can't tolerate but I would hate to do a couple of those 8 hr sessions I did early on now. Good Luck!!
Quote from: I Am Jess on May 08, 2017, 06:58:36 PM
It is time consuming and expensive. I've done over 200 hours since I started a little over two years ago. It is something you will want to get started on ASAP. Even if you can only do a little at a time it's best to get it out of the way now. The pain of the zaps gets worse the longer you are on HRT, at least for me. It's not something I can't tolerate but I would hate to do a couple of those 8 hr sessions I did early on now. Good Luck!!
8hr session!?! That's nuts!!
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Quote from: Alora on May 08, 2017, 07:01:33 PM
8hr session!?! That's nuts!!
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With two techs working......at the same time.......
Start electrolysis yesterday! Electrolysis and your voice will be the two most time consuming things you will do.
Quote from: Karmorda on May 08, 2017, 03:24:29 PM
I Made my first appointment to get Electrolysis for June first. The Electrolysist I'm going to see charges $95 /hr and it's an hour drive there and back for me. So between that and that fact I don't make much money (and transitioning has other expenses) I'm only going to be able to go 1 hour every other week. I guess I'm just a little disheartened by the price and time it takes. I should start HRT next month and part of me is thinking to just put off electrolysis for a year or two until I'm in a better place financially and live closer to city with electrolysist. I mean estrogen slows facial hair growth right? Couldn't I just shave often? But I can afford the price for one hour twice a month so i guess what im wondering is it worth it to start now?
If you're young or have dark hair you shouldn't even be messing with electro yet. That money should be getting spent on laser. Given the situation of having dark hair on your face, Laser would be the most efficacious and practical decision.
Electrolysis is one of the top three things I have ever done for myself. I would do it again, hands down, in a heartbeat. Having my facial hair removed very early on was the best thing I did for my transition and did more for my passability than almost anything else did. My advice is to start your face ASAP and go for as long and as often as you can afford to. If you wait two years you have wasted two years of hair removal, and you may find that estrogen makes your skin more sensitive AND you will start to look like a bearded lady. Having an orchiectomy slowed down and thinned out my facial hair a tiny bit, but it still needed to be zapped so don't rely on hormones to do much or anything for you in that regard. You might shop around and find a cheaper electrologist that does a lot of trans women and is open to bargaining or something. I used to go for 2-4 hour session for my face several times a month, and now after a decade away I am doing 6 and 4 hour sessions each month to clear my genital area prior to SRS and to remove pretty much all my unwanted body hair. I highly recommend you not delay starting treatment, and in my opinion laser is hit-or-miss and is not something I would do on my face.
Yes, it is worth it. I drive 3.5 hours each way for mine at $88/hour. I go every 2-4 weeks for 3-4 hours sessions.
However, much like jentay1367 said, if you have dark hair, start with laser, then go electro.
Check with your insurance company! Mine covers electrolysis if medically necessary. It is considered that by WPATH and my doctor gave me a 3 page letter spelling it out in detail. A friend was reimbursed for ALL of her hair removal and we have the same company.
Quote from: Yuusui on May 09, 2017, 10:49:40 AM
Check with your insurance company! Mine covers electrolysis if medically necessary. It is considered that by WPATH and my doctor gave me a 3 page letter spelling it out in detail. A friend was reimbursed for ALL of her hair removal and we have the same company.
Are you in the US? I have been trying to figure out how to get insurance to cover it, but I'm running into STEAL walls!! [emoji17][emoji17]
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Yes, I am in Minnesota. My policy has extensive transgender care, following WPATH guidelines. I know not all do. Mine specifically says if it is "Medically Necessary."
Quote from: Yuusui on May 12, 2017, 02:33:07 PM
Yes, I am in Minnesota. My policy has extensive transgender care, following WPATH guidelines. I know not all do. Mine specifically says if it is "Medically Necessary."
I have to fight to get "exception to the rule" status for everything but BA and bottom surgery. It's so annoying.
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One more voice for Yes it is worth it. Most all of us need to do it all, hormones, T blockers, laser and about 200 hours of electrolysis.
Some of us are so hairy, that we are never done. We just need fewer sessions as we progress.
Electrology 3000 in Dallas is one company that does marathon electrolysis sessions. This may be an option for those of us who must travel a long distance for just one session.
I would say "Yes", I just had my first appointment today. It was $100 for 1hr, the experience was wonderful. I am going back on Thursday for my second appointment. I am working part-time at a retail store to pay for the appointments.
Yes yes and definitely yes. If there is one thing I myself wish and hear echoed through Susan's is "I wish I had started sooner".
I will add that it is by far the best, most effective route to remove hair if you do both laser and electrolysis at the same time.
The reason for this is that they are complimentary in nature.
They both damage the hair follicle and can piggyback off one another.
Example.
A typical growth cycle for a hair follicle is between 7-12 weeks.
Say your growth cycle is 8
Go for laser first. Over the next two weeks your hairs will purge. Over the next six weeks get electrolysis done, as often as possible and target any regrowth in that cycle. The follicles have already been damaged and are much more likely to be permanently killed off if not given time to repair.
Continue doing this for every growth cycle until you hit a point where you don't have enough dark hairs to make laser cost effective.
This both speeds up the hair removal process and ends up putting you ahead finically in the long run.
Remember that each growth cycle will need to be treated multiple times before the hair removal is permanent. Because of how these growth cycles work and the need to repeat treatments for each cycle. Even in the best case scenario expect 1.5-2 years before hair is not popping back up in any given growth cycle.
I am currently at the 13 month mark. About 85 hours in and about 8 laser treatments. In that time I am now done to once a month on my face, and chest- 2 hours total. I am also 3 months in on my surgical site, about 15 hours of that 85 total.
I have about three dark hairs on each corner of my lip that are super stubborn and keep coming back after about 10 days. Other than that 80% of the hairs on my face are peach fuz (normal and helpful for any cis female). The remaining 20% are the longer fine velous hairs.
My hair growth really only slowed down once a good portion of the velous hairs were present. That was about 10 months into both hrt and hair removal.
I hit the point where laser was no longer economically advantageous at six months.
I can definitely say that around the 10 month point I hit that awkward phase where I can't shave for a week, and there are these random black hairs that are still growing faster than all the other blonde finer hairs. At that point I was already full time and it was a pain to cover up, and plan things out for timing to minimize the public exposure as a bearded lady.
So while you might not be ready for full time or even hrt. By the time you're there if you do start now, even slowly and a couple times a month. You'll put yourself in a much better situation to be full time, without the need to do 30 min of color correction of the dark spots after a clean shave just to run out for milk.
~Brooke~
Quote from: Karmorda on May 08, 2017, 03:24:29 PM
I Made my first appointment to get Electrolysis for June first. The Electrolysist I'm going to see charges $95 /hr and it's an hour drive there and back for me. So between that and that fact I don't make much money (and transitioning has other expenses) I'm only going to be able to go 1 hour every other week. I guess I'm just a little disheartened by the price and time it takes. I should start HRT next month and part of me is thinking to just put off electrolysis for a year or two until I'm in a better place financially and live closer to city with electrolysist. I mean estrogen slows facial hair growth right? Couldn't I just shave often? But I can afford the price for one hour twice a month so i guess what im wondering is it worth it to start now?
Yes, it's worth it.
1 hr every other week is quite infrequent but do what you can.
$95 / hr seems high to me but maybe I'm forgetting.
I got prescription for lidocaine/prilocaine cream 5%/5% from my doc, great help with pain... optional though.
The drive seems long but since you are going infrequently perhaps things will change when you go more often
Best of luck with it!
(Sent from my mobile.)
My experience is that electrolysis demands a huge commitment in time and money to be effective. I know girls who have gone about it haphazardly for 5 or 6 years and still aren't free of facial hair. Commitment and discipline are essential to see good results. As someone else mentioned, you'll have to treat a hair multiple times to finally kill it. A mature, healthy follicle is hard to kill. You have to treat it in a weaken state to finish it off. Given time, a weakened follicle will recover to full strength and your back where you started.
There's no point in starting facial hair removal if you can't follow through because of inadequate funds. Save up aggressively till you have the money needed to do it right. You'll have to forego a lot of other life 'necessities' in the mean time, but if you're serious about it, you can get it done. I wish you the best. It is worth the effort.
Quote from: Clara Kay on May 21, 2017, 09:26:52 AM
My experience is that electrolysis demands a huge commitment in time and money to be effective. I know girls who have gone about it haphazardly for 5 or 6 years and still aren't free of facial hair. Commitment and discipline are essential to see good results. As someone else mentioned, you'll have to treat a hair multiple times to finally kill it. A mature, healthy follicle is hard to kill. You have to treat it in a weaken state to finish it off. Given time, a weakened follicle will recover to full strength and your back where you started.
There's no point in starting facial hair removal if you can't follow through because of inadequate funds. Save up aggressively till you have the money needed to do it right. You'll have to forego a lot of other life 'necessities' in the mean time, but if you're serious about it, you can get it done. I wish you the best. It is worth the effort.
I have to disagree with one of your statements. A properly treated hair is killed the first time; you do not have to treat it "multiple times" to "weaken" it unless you're doing improper insertions or using insufficient current. This is a myth from the old days that has been soundly disproven by prominent electrologists such as Michael Bono. Based on the number of people talking about having hundreds of hours with little reduction in hair growth, I can only assume that many electrologists are too afraid of causing pain or skin reaction to adequately kill hairs on the first pass, but this is a failure on their part, not a problem with the process itself.
Quote from: AutumnLeaves on May 21, 2017, 10:43:49 AM
I have to disagree with one of your statements. A properly treated hair is killed the first time; you do not have to treat it "multiple times" to "weaken" it unless you're doing improper insertions or using insufficient current. This is a myth from the old days that has been soundly disproven by prominent electrologists such as Michael Bono. Based on the number of people talking about having hundreds of hours with little reduction in hair growth, I can only assume that many electrologists are too afraid of causing pain or skin reaction to adequately kill hairs on the first pass, but this is a failure on their part, not a problem with the process itself.
And there lies the problem. Finding that Practitioner. Living in a major Metropolitan area makes it easier, though not guaranteed. Living in smaller markets leaves much to be desired and may expose you to those that are using not only outdated machines, but may include those with dubious skill sets as well.
To your point of killing every hair the first time it's treated?....that's a fantasy as there are just too many variables.
Quote from: AutumnLeaves on May 21, 2017, 10:43:49 AM
I have to disagree with one of your statements. A properly treated hair is killed the first time; you do not have to treat it "multiple times" to "weaken" it unless you're doing improper insertions or using insufficient current.
That may very well be true. The catch phrase is "properly treated hair". It's like saying a baseball player can bat 1000 with a proper swing of the bat. It doesn't happen. There are many variables that determine the kill rate, and although the skill of the practitioner is extremely important, it alone is not enough to achieve 100% kill.
There are approximately 30,000 hairs on the face. Using HF thermolysis (flash modality) a good electrologist can treat as many as 40 hairs a minute or 2,400 hairs an hour give or take. If all 30,000 hairs were in the growth phase (they're not, but for sake of argument) it would take 13 hours to treat every hair. If every hair was killed the first time, one could expect to be done with facial hair removal in 6 or 7 two hour sessions. I know of no one who can achieve that kind of productivity.
With 12-sec blend modality which has a higher kill rate than flash, a practitioner can treat 240 hairs an hour. If every hair was killed on first treatment, it would take 130 hours to be rid of all 30,000 hairs. And being that blend is less likely to cause dermal skin damage, that would a viable way to go, only no one can achieve that kind of productivity, and blend is typically used only after the beard has been substantially thinned out.
Every electrologist will tell you that it's so important to treat a follicle when the hair is in a weakened state because the kill rate goes up dramatically when the hair is immature. Electrologists often over promise the time it takes to complete facial hair removal because reality is hard to swallow.
And, another thing. Moisture content of the skin is even more important than the skill of the electrologist. One does not have to be an expert to treat a hair with blend (galvanic+RF), but the creation of the lye which kills the follicle depends on the presence of skin moisture. As the skin ages, moisture content diminishes and significantly reduces the kill rate which is why older patients take so much longer.
These are practical considerations that one should factor into their plans for facial hair removal if you hope to be successful. Ignore them at your own risk.
Also blood flow and therefore oxygen flow is a big factor. I've been told the reason for my stubborn black hairs on the corner of my upper lip is due to that area receiving more oxygen and thus making healing of the follicle much easier/faster
~Brooke~
Quote from: Brooke on May 21, 2017, 11:46:59 AM
Also blood flow and therefore oxygen flow is a big factor. I've been told the reason for my stubborn black hairs on the corner of my upper lip is due to that area receiving more oxygen and thus making healing of the follicle much easier/faster
~Brooke~
Brooke, you are right. There is a rich supply of capillaries in the area surrounding the mouth. To kill a follicle you have to cut off the blood supply to prevent another germ cell from producing a new papilla (the root of a hair).
I'm curious how many here have a completely hair free face and neck. I still have hair of the villus type which is very fine and colorless and invisible to the eye. If I shine an LED flashlight (torch) at an angle in a darkened room while looking at my face in 10X makeup mirror these tiny hairs show up plainly. Some of them grow out about 1/4" and have to be plucked, but most stay short and are of no concern. The fact that my T level is very low means that these hairs do not have the capacity to thicken and grow out like my former facial hair. It tells me that killing every hair follicle is not really necessary. Natal women also have 30,000 facial hair follicles with villus hair growth. It doesn't start to become a problem until after menopause when their T/E ratio increases somewhat.
My goal is to get rid of the vellus hairs, which are the longer blonde ones. I actually want to keep the fine peach fuzz, as it is good for the skin. I am about 80% there.
~Brooke~
Yeah...those vellus hairs (peach fuzz) are just part of the human condition and every woman has them. It's actually good for the skin so you wouldn't want to eradicate them even if you could. I've also noticed that the hairs around my mouth seem to be the toughest to kill. It's good to have the insight as to why that's the case because it certainly had me wondering.
I can't really advise you on methods of hair removal because I didn't have to deal with with facial hair. But I would say it would definitely be worth it. Facial hair is a huge factor in how people judge your gender. My boyfriend told me that as soon as he started to get some facial hair people started using male pronouns even though at that time he had not become muscular nor had he had FMS yet.(He is FtM) Electrolysis is painful I am sure but I would say it would be worth it.
Hugs.
I was out for the weekend with a number of women around my age and every single one of them has a healthy growth of vellus hairs which can normally only be seen in the right light. I would be very happy to be at that stage. I am at that awkward stage where I should not really be shaving as I need all the time between sessions to grow out.
However I still have a number of hairs that are stubborn especially the black ones around my chin area...because of the laser treatment many of these black hairs have now thickened as part of the dying off process. They are easily seen no matter what makeup you have on especially up close.
Is it worth it... Consider this....It is one of the first and easiest give ways along with voice of getting clocked if they are not right. The number of follicles under the skin changes the shape of your face subtlety along with the skin tone depending on how much black there is.
I feel you sister. I did laser for 2 continuous years full face (and some body) and kept being told to "try longer" when in reality my hair is just too light for it. It did help on my stomach some. Then I started doing electrolysis. To date I've had I think 60-70 hours on my face and it has helped, but I feel like the tunnel is no where near the end. I still have to shave my entire face every single day and still have stubble by the end of the day. It did help with some of the darker hairs I have less of a shadow in the last few months which I am so thankful for. I hope one day I will eventually finish but I feel like the end is no where close! I've also spent 10k between the lasers and electrolysis (the place I go is 12 hours away so travel there plus hotel etc)
Sidebar, this may be what you guys do (still a newbie) but I use an electric shaver and find its incredible esp for shaving every single day sometimes twice a day like if I work that morning and have a date that night. My skin can hardly tolerate cream and a real razor anyway. Keep trucking babes