Just curious.
A few mins, not more.
If for sublingual delivery then until it fully dissolves. However if you're being dosed for swallowing then sublingual may be delivering more estrogen than you need?
For an estradiol tablet it's somewhere around 10-20 minutes before it dissolves completely. It just depends on how much saliva I'm making at the time.
Quote from: SadieBlake on May 20, 2017, 10:05:15 AM
If for sublingual delivery then until it fully dissolves. However if you're being dosed for swallowing then sublingual may be delivering more estrogen than you need?
it is being dose for swallowing but I spread my pills 3 times a day.
You should advise your doctor and ask if it's ok to take them that way. Be open and honest with your doctor. ;)
I take generic Estrace. I place it just above my top teeth gum line inside the upper cheek. There's a lot less saliva there so it disolves slow but I swallow very little of the disolving tablet. If you put it under your tongue your mouth makes a bunch of extra saliva and you end up constantly swallowing. This is something I picked up reading on the forum.
Quote from: josie76 on May 20, 2017, 12:14:39 PM
I take generic Estrace. I place it just above my top teeth gum line inside the upper cheek. There's a lot less saliva there so it disolves slow but I swallow very little of the disolving tablet. If you put it under your tongue your mouth makes a bunch of extra saliva and you end up constantly swallowing. This is something I picked up reading on the forum.
what if you manage to not swallow the saliva?
Angelique, I've tried all three methods, swallowing, sublingual (holding it under your tongue), and transbuccal (holding it against your upper gums).
I found that transbuccal took forever, like the pill could sit there for an hour or more. It would turn to powder but it took a long time for that and it never did completely dissolve.
Sublingual, the pill usually lasts about 5-10 minutes before it is powder and maybe another 5-10 before it is gone almost completely. I've learned to put it on the side of my tongue rather than the front and it does take a little discipline to keep it there without letting it get soaked in saliva to the point that you're swallowing it with your saliva. You'll know if you are because suddenly your saliva will taste sweet. This is my preferred method and the one that I was directed to use by my doctor. It takes a little practice but once you get used to it, it's easy and efficient and according to what I've read, when done properly, the uptake isn't too much different from transbuccal anyway.
Quote from: AlyssaJ on May 20, 2017, 01:03:10 PM
Angelique, I've tried all three methods, swallowing, sublingual (holding it under your tongue), and transbuccal (holding it against your upper gums).
I found that transbuccal took forever, like the pill could sit there for an hour or more. It would turn to powder but it took a long time for that and it never did completely dissolve.
Sublingual, the pill usually lasts about 5-10 minutes before it is powder and maybe another 5-10 before it is gone almost completely. I've learned to put it on the side of my tongue rather than the front and it does take a little discipline to keep it there without letting it get soaked in saliva to the point that you're swallowing it with your saliva. You'll know if you are because suddenly your saliva will taste sweet. This is my preferred method and the one that I was directed to use by my doctor. It takes a little practice but once you get used to it, it's easy and efficient and according to what I've read, when done properly, the uptake isn't too much different from transbuccal anyway.
if it does happen to get in saliva does your mouth still absorb it if you don't swallow?
To some degree yes but the saliva itself will destroy some of it. Once you try it you'll see thought that it's much easier just not to let it get soaked in saliva in the first place. It takes a little practice and getting used to but after a while it becomes very easy and natural.
Quote from: AlyssaJ on May 20, 2017, 01:15:36 PM
To some degree yes but the saliva itself will destroy some of it. Once you try it you'll see thought that it's much easier just not to let it get soaked in saliva in the first place. It takes a little practice and getting used to but after a while it becomes very easy and natural.
i did it and held my saliva and did my best to hold it under my tongue for 30 mins, but when I swallowed my saliva and looked in my mouth I had some green/blue powder still there. Is that ok or does that mean I didn't absorb all the medication?
My doctor's instructions were to just swish some water and swallow that last little bit. It'll get absorbed through your normal digestive process. Or if you can stand it, leave it in your mouth and eventually it will absorb away.
So I did the sublingual method with all my doses yesterday held it under my tongue for 30 mins each time and didn't swallow any saliva until the last sec, but this morning I woke up with a hot flash. Is that normal? I mean I know they still worked because my breasts were really sore last night and still are a bit sore this morning, I havnt had that feeling in months.
My pills lasts less than 30 seconds under my tongue... I must be full of spit :angel:
But seriously tho... my pills *are* tiny tho and easily dissolve (kinda chalky textured). 60 seconds tops.
Quote from: Ⓥ on May 21, 2017, 08:17:22 AM
My pills lasts less than 30 seconds under my tongue... I must be full of spit :angel:
But seriously tho... my pills *are* tiny tho and easily dissolve (kinda chalky textured). 60 seconds tops.
mine are like that too, but yesterday despite holding them under my tongue for so long I experienced a couple hot flashes while sleeping and even this morning.
Quote from: AlyssaJ on May 20, 2017, 01:03:10 PM
Angelique, I've tried all three methods, swallowing, sublingual (holding it under your tongue), and transbuccal (holding it against your upper gums).
I found that transbuccal took forever, like the pill could sit there for an hour or more. It would turn to powder but it took a long time for that and it never did completely dissolve.
Sublingual, the pill usually lasts about 5-10 minutes before it is powder and maybe another 5-10 before it is gone almost completely. I've learned to put it on the side of my tongue rather than the front and it does take a little discipline to keep it there without letting it get soaked in saliva to the point that you're swallowing it with your saliva. You'll know if you are because suddenly your saliva will taste sweet. This is my preferred method and the one that I was directed to use by my doctor. It takes a little practice but once you get used to it, it's easy and efficient and according to what I've read, when done properly, the uptake isn't too much different from transbuccal anyway.
I have had the exact same experience. I tried transbuccal too and just couldn't take having it there for up to an hour or more to dissolve. Multiple times a day that was too much loss time for me to not be able to drink some water.
My timeline is the same as yours as sublingual too. 10 mins-ish to powder, another 10 to dissolve. Sometimes longer if I am dryer, sometimes too quick if I am salivating too much. I learned to drink some water like 15 minutes before hand so I am in the middle.
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 20, 2017, 01:36:41 PM
i did it and held my saliva and did my best to hold it under my tongue for 30 mins, but when I swallowed my saliva and looked in my mouth I had some green/blue powder still there. Is that ok or does that mean I didn't absorb all the medication?
It sounds like you should ask for sublingual if that's how you will take the pills. To answer your question though, try to keep the powder under your tongue until it disappears naturally rather than swallow.
If you start salivating too much open your mouth and breathe through your mouth. It will dry it out.
The real trick is to have it deep under your tongue like right where it connects to the bottom and NOT TO TALK for 25 minutes. The other thing is to keep your head up straight and forward. If you are tilted forward or leaning over (think looking at your phone) it will slide to the front of your mouth to the teeth and you will lose control and it will escape and break down much quicker by your saliva. Same if you are looking up like laying in bed, it will more naturally go to your throat causing you to reflexively swallow it.
Another trick I do is once it is powder I will move my tongue left and right in little micro-movements (barely!) to kind of grind it in and spread the powder flat so it is absorbed better. Micro-movements though! you don't want it to escape the tongue
I think you all are over thinking the process. What is important is that you put the pill somewhere where it can eventually turn into a powdery paste and have it there long enough to absorb most if not all of the estradiol.
If some of the paste come out of the holding point it probably doesn't matter as it has been help in place long enough to do the job. Just swallow what leaks and forget about it.
Laurie
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 20, 2017, 01:36:41 PM
i did it and held my saliva and did my best to hold it under my tongue for 30 mins, but when I swallowed my saliva and looked in my mouth I had some green/blue powder still there. Is that ok or does that mean I didn't absorb all the medication?
Remember that the vast majority of these tablets is just filler material, so don't worry about the color. If you had it under your tongue that long you certainly absorbed at least the majority of the medication and the rest would get absorbed as you swallow.
Quote from: Laurie on May 21, 2017, 12:00:27 PM
I think you all are over thinking the process. What is important is that you put the pill somewhere where it can eventually turn into a powdery paste and have it there long enough to absorb most if not all of the estradiol.
If some of the paste come out of the holding point it probably doesn't matter as it has been help in place long enough to do the job. Just swallow what leaks and forget about it.
Laurie
I agree very much with this comment. Lets not over think this.
For me I just place a tablet under my tongue and then I do my daily dilation and catch up on the local tv news and weather. It works for me.
Quote from: Laurie on May 21, 2017, 12:00:27 PM
I think you all are over thinking the process. What is important is that you put the pill somewhere where it can eventually turn into a powdery paste and have it there long enough to absorb most if not all of the estradiol.
If some of the paste come out of the holding point it probably doesn't matter as it has been help in place long enough to do the job. Just swallow what leaks and forget about it.
Laurie
I don't think making sure you absorb as much of a sublingual as you can the way it is made to is overthinking.
Your "Probably" is not very assuring either. If you are swallowing it you are not maximizing the effects... The whole point of sublingual is to avoid the digestive route.
Edit: Anyone wanna provide research that backs what you are saying?
You might try splitting the tablet in two and putting each half on different side of your tongue. Seems to dissolve faster than doing a full pill on one side.
All the best,
--AshleyP
Ummm.. This may sound weird but ever since i've gotten the sublingual I have wondered if it wouldn't be more effective if taken like a suppository.. I couldn't find any info on that on the web though. Anyone know anything about that?
I take the generic estrace and put it under my tongue until it dissolves completely. I find that I usually have less saliva if I don't drink anything for a few minutes before taking it, and I try not to drink anything for at least 30 minutes afterwards, hoping that most will be absorbed before swallowing any of it.
I do believe that you end up with a higher estrogen level by taking it sublingually. After my last lab work my doctor cut my dosage back and said my estrogen was much too high.
Hot flashes from sublingual intake might be due to fluctuations because levels peak and drop rapidly. The pills cannot absorb rectally due to lack of moisture.
Quote from: KayXo on May 23, 2017, 02:59:37 PM
Hot flashes from sublingual intake might be due to fluctuations because levels peak and drop rapidly. The pills cannot absorb rectally due to lack of moisture.
i havnt hasn't hot flashes since the first night after starting the sublingual method, guess it was just my body getting used to it because I'm feeling great now.
I asked my doctor this, he told me it didn't make a noticeable difference, the only variation was if the estrogen got to the liver in the first or second blood cycle. he assured me that the difference was meaningless so I take them as he told me to, swallowing them.
Quote from: Alanna1990 on May 23, 2017, 06:56:09 PM
I asked my doctor this, he told me it didn't make a noticeable difference, the only variation was if the estrogen got to the liver in the first or second blood cycle. he assured me that the difference was meaningless so I take them as he told me to, swallowing them.
idk if that's true because since starting sublingual my boobs/nipples are hurting again and that's a sensation I havnt felt in months.
I have found that brand of pill makes a big difference in how long the pill takes to dissolve/absorb. I had a pack manufactured by mylan medical when I was in France that took ages compared to my normal Bayer pills
earlier today I did one of my dosages, after 25 mins I looked in the mirror just to see if my saliva was clear or not and that was my first time doing that since starting sublingual method and when I looked my saliva was a blue color. Does that mean my estradiol wasn't absorbed? Because it dissolved completely under my tongue.
Quote from: LShipley on May 21, 2017, 12:36:06 PM
Anyone wanna provide research that backs what you are saying?
Here is a link to some easy to understand studies of Estradiol, oral vs sublingual with graphs showing blood levels over time.
http://transascity.org/sublingual-versus-oral-estrogen/
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 24, 2017, 07:15:16 PM
earlier today I did one of my dosages, after 25 mins I looked in the mirror just to see if my saliva was clear or not and that was my first time doing that since starting sublingual method and when I looked my saliva was a blue color. Does that mean my estradiol wasn't absorbed? Because it dissolved completely under my tongue.
The blue color is just a dye to make the tablet look pretty. As a practical matter, try to not eat or drink for 30 minutes. Almost all the Estradiol will be absorbed by that time. Again, blood levels are not that important. What is important is repeated exposure to adequate levels of Estradiol in the blood system.
Quote from: Dani on May 24, 2017, 08:29:16 PM
Here is a link to some easy to understand studies of Estradiol, oral vs sublingual with graphs showing blood levels over time.
http://transascity.org/sublingual-versus-oral-estrogen/
The blue color is just a dye to make the tablet look pretty. As a practical matter, try to not eat or drink for 30 minutes. Almost all the Estradiol will be absorbed by that time. Again, blood levels are not that important. What is important is repeated exposure to adequate levels of Estradiol in the blood system.
how much of the dosage (in %) do you think will be absorbed by 25 mins of holding my saliva in my mouth with the dissolved pill under my tongue?
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 24, 2017, 08:44:37 PM
how much of the dosage (in %) do you think will be absorbed by 25 mins of holding my saliva in my mouth with the dissolved pill under my tongue?
There is no hard number to give you. There are just too many variables.
Another reference is Wikipedia. Just type in "Estradiol (medication)" in their search engine. I would post the link, but I cannot get it to work properly.
In that wiki article, there is a section called Pharacokinetics and it discusses sublingual effectiveness.
Assuming your levels are fine and feminisation is ongoing, which your post history appears to indicate, this is not something to stress out about. And stress is not good for feminisation..
Well I had a severe hot flash laat night, it was unlike anything I've ever experienced, I felt like I was on fire. Idk what I'm doing wrong because I'm not swallowing anything for 25 mins. I never got hot flashes taking my pills orally. I heard sublingual doesn't have a very long halflife like oral, so is it ok if I do sublingual morning and afternoon and then do oral at night?
Quote from: Angélique LaCava on May 25, 2017, 08:13:03 AM
Well I had a severe hot flash laat night, it was unlike anything I've ever experienced, I felt like I was on fire. Idk what I'm doing wrong because I'm not swallowing anything for 25 mins. I never got hot flashes taking my pills orally. I heard sublingual doesn't have a very long halflife like oral, so is it ok if I do sublingual morning and afternoon and then do oral at night?
It doesn't matter if your levels are OK.. Not one bit..
Just for interest, the half life of oral estrogen is about 13 - 20 hours, the half life of sublingual estrogen is about 8 to 18 hours, depending..
As for hot flashes, there are many reasons they could be happening, all of which will require speaking with your doctor.
Quote from: KayXo on May 23, 2017, 02:59:37 PM
Hot flashes from sublingual intake might be due to fluctuations because levels peak and drop rapidly. The pills cannot absorb rectally due to lack of moisture.
2nded to the first part. Last week I woke up late and took my E dose, but my next dose was scheduled in 3 hours so I took that on time 3 hours later. After my night dose I had a very noticeable hot flash. Only that one time though so I imagine it really spiked for an hour or 2
There is a huge variable to the time the sublingual actually dissolves. Sometimes I am much more dry than normal and it was still pasty 40 minutes later (not just blue spit, pasty powder). That's why I try to drink water 15 minutes before. 20 minutes seems like the standard I go for
Quote from: Dani on May 24, 2017, 08:29:16 PM
Here is a link to some easy to understand studies of Estradiol, oral vs sublingual with graphs showing blood levels over time.
http://transascity.org/sublingual-versus-oral-estrogen/
The blue color is just a dye to make the tablet look pretty. As a practical matter, try to not eat or drink for 30 minutes. Almost all the Estradiol will be absorbed by that time. Again, blood levels are not that important. What is important is repeated exposure to adequate levels of Estradiol in the blood system.
I was talking about providing research for those saying to just swish and swallow the last of the sublingual. This post agrees with what I was saying
Have you tried buccal administration? I find it much easier than sublingual with respect to saliva production. Could be coincidence or HRT timing but as soon as I switched to buccal my breast growth really started to take off.