Amazing how the ones in charge of news haven't made mention of the indifine military ban against Transgender s that went into effect per mad dog mattis and signed off by all branches of service. Hmm where is the outrage over that?
Quote from: cheryl reeves on June 12, 2017, 07:11:15 PM
Amazing how the ones in charge of news haven't made mention of the indifine military ban against Transgender s that went into effect per mad dog mattis and signed off by all branches of service. Hmm where is the outrage over that?
Hi Cheryl,
Can I ask what are your sources for making that statement? I would like to read about it myself as all I can find along those line is a story where two academy recruits will be allowed to graduate but cannot serve yet due to the Army and Air Force have not completed the guidelines required for accepting transgender service people yet.
Nothing about a ban. So where are you getting your information? I would like to read it.
Hugs,
Laurie
No they haven't banned anyone. Two of the services have requested more time before they start accepting new trans recruits. That has been neither approved nor disapproved yet.
So yes, I have seen the news. However, I prefer to wait until there is an actual decision before commenting on it. Right now there is nothing to say because right now nothing has changed.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
They shouldn't discriminate against anyone but I don't understand why any trans person would ever want to be in the military. I can't think of anyplace that would totally force you to act and look masculine like the military. Unless they let people transition in there? Is that a thing now?
Quote from: Julia1996 on June 12, 2017, 07:47:52 PM
Unless they let people transition in there? Is that a thing now?
Yes.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
I'm totally shocked by that. But its like very progressive.
Quote from: Julia1996 on June 12, 2017, 07:47:52 PM
They shouldn't discriminate against anyone but I don't understand why any trans person would ever want to be in the military. I can't think of anyplace that would totally force you to act and look masculine like the military. Unless they let people transition in there? Is that a thing now?
The military does offer many opportunities for people. In fact, it is a lot easier for a veteran to get a job, than it is for a non-veteran. I do not understand why an MTF would join, since the military is tough, but I can understand why an FTM might want to join.
Oh yeah. I forgot about FtMs. They probably would like the military.
As an ex Navy person (1969-1974), I would like to hear where you are getting your news about this ban.
I have multiple friends in the military that are Trans and have not heard of anything.
The military offers many opportunities for all, MtF and FtM. Yes they are regimented and tough for both men and women. Something our youth of today don't like but it can be good for many troubled youth. I know many TG that are proud of their service. And many like me that have gone on and transitioned after their service.
The idea that they force you to act and look masculine is a variable thing. I found them to be no more of this than society in general.
Georgette, I didn't mean to sound disrespectful to people who did military service. I have a lot of respect for military people. My dad was in the marines and some of his friends were too. From listening to my dad and his friends talk about it I just assumed the military was for supermasculine guys. I'm totally sorry if I was offensive in any way.
Thank you for serving.
Julia
Okay friends, let's all settle down a bit
Various people join the Marines and some migrate into SEAL teams for various reasons
The main reason being to protect your freedoms
Quote from: Lady Sarah on June 12, 2017, 09:27:54 PM
I do not understand why an MTF would join, since the military is tough
Not all jobs in the military are directly involved in combat. Combat service jobs include intel, communications, medical and supply. If a woman can do the job, then it does not matter if she was born female or became female later in life.
I find it interesting that someone would start a controversial thread by making an unsupported statement then not be available to defend it. This statement not only is unsupported but to all intents and purposes is false.
Why would someone do that? In my opinion the thread should be locked and deleted.
Hugs,
Laurie
Quote from: Dani on June 13, 2017, 09:18:38 AM
Not all jobs in the military are directly involved in combat. Combat service jobs include intel, communications, medical and supply. If a woman can do the job, then it does not matter if she was born female or became female later in life.
Added to that, there are no jobs in the military closed to women anymore. The Army already has women in the Infantry and several have become Army Rangers. So, maybe trans women join for the same reasons as CIS women.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
"We sleep safely in our beds because rough men (and women) stand ready in the night to visit violence on those who would harm us."
Edmund Burke
Bold part is from me. :)
Quote from: V M on June 13, 2017, 09:09:40 AM
Okay friends, let's all settle down a bit
Various people join the Marines and some migrate into SEAL teams for various reasons
The main reason being to protect your freedoms
They certainly do protect our freedoms. They also project national power, which may or may not be aligned with those freedoms at any given moment in history.
I speak only for myself, but I think we all do the things we do, military or not, predominantly out of a desire to exercise or express elements of ourselves. For some, this is altruism. For others, it is fondness for teamwork. Still others, technophlia. Ascribing altruism only to the vocation of soldier oversimplifies soldiers, in my opinion.
I read it in a news wire and was curious why it wasn't mentioned here, I wasn't trying to start anything. My problem is I read alot of news wires and with my phone I don't know how to cut and paste links so that's why I didn't post a link.
I looked mad dog mattis places hold on Transgender in the military and found the story again but can't paste the link. I use my phone instead of a laptop for my phone is cheaper.
Quote from: cheryl reeves on June 13, 2017, 12:42:20 PM
I read it in a news wire and was curious why it wasn't mentioned here, I wasn't trying to start anything. My problem is I read alot of news wires and with my phone I don't know how to cut and paste links so that's why I didn't post a link.
I looked mad dog mattis places hold on Transgender in the military and found the story again but can't paste the link. I use my phone instead of a laptop for my phone is cheaper.
Hi Cheryl,
I read that story I think and he put a hold on allowing new recruits until the services have the transgender plans in place for dealing with them. The guidelines and rules and regs are not yet in place for the different branches. It is not a ban on transgender in the military.
Hugs,
Laurie
The military has not announced a delay. The conservative press is simply rife with hopeful speculation along with their usual insulting language. At this point it is fake news. Maybe it will become real, maybe not.
This article is more accurate in reporting what is going on. https://hive.am/bMKKJ
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
I thought this was a good recap of where things currently stand in the military. I was under the impression that it had already been rolled back, so the nuances were news to me. I do know that two graduates from military academies were not given commissions as is customary, and I do believe that under Obama, those commissions would have been tendered. With regards to that reality, it would appear that there has been at least a temporary step backward from the original stated commitment.
==-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
LGBT groups brace for new fight over transgender troops
BY REBECCA KHEEL - 06/03/17 05:36 PM EDT 530
Groups that advocate for LGBT people in the military are gearing up for another fight to keep an Obama-era policy in place on transgender recruits.
Transgender troops already in the military have been able to serve openly since then-Secretary of Defense Ash Carter lifted a ban in June 2016. But under the policy Carter crafted, transgender recruits haven't been allowed to enlist pending the end of a one-year implementation period.
That day comes July 1, but advocates fear Defense Secretary James Mattis will push the deadline back indefinitely.
"What's so sad about hearing these arguments is that Secretary Mattis and the Pentagon have seemed like the one place in the executive branch where honesty and evidence-based policy and adult decision-making are still the name of the game," said Aaron Belkin, director of the Palm Center.
If Mattis delays implementation, "that's really a signal where evidence-based approaches may be over," Belkin added.
In early May, Deputy Defense Secretary Robert Work sent a memo calling for the services to submit their plans for accepting transgender recruits by July 1. The memo said there's no intention of changing the policy, but left a sliver of wiggle room.
"The personnel policies of this department are designed to enhance the warfighting readiness and lethality of the force that protects our country," Work wrote, as first reported by USA Today. "We do not intend to reconsider prior decisions unless they cause readiness problems that could lessen our ability to fight, survive and win on the battlefield."
But since the memo, senior leaders in the military have been voicing lingering concerns about the transgender policy and asking for a delay in its implementation, Military Times reported Thursday. The Army and the Marine Corps have been the most vocal about a delay, the paper added.
The prospect of delaying the acceptance of transgender recruits is the latest concern for LGBT troops since President Trump's election.
Advocates were worried almost immediately after the election that the Trump administration would roll back the transgender policy, citing what they view as anti-LGBT policies backed by Vice President Pence and chief strategist Steve Bannon, among others.
Since it's not a law, the policy can be changed unilaterally.
There was also concern when Mattis was named Defense secretary. Mattis has previously criticized civilian leaders with a "progressive agenda" for imposing "social change" on the military.
During his confirmation hearing, Mattis committed to upholding his predecessor's policies -- unless a service chief brings him evidence they are having negative effects.
"I believe that right now, the policies that are in effect — unless the service chief brings something to me where there has been a problem that has been proven — then I'm not going in with the idea that I am going to review these and right away, start rolling something back," he said in January.
But new concerns arose in February when it was revealed the Pentagon had quietly rolled backed a policy that allowed transgender students at Defense Department schools to use the bathroom for the gender they identify with. Instead, school principals will decide what to do on a case-by-case basis.
Worries reached a fever pitch when Trump announced his choice for Army secretary, Mark Green. Green had said that "transgender is a disease," one among many controversial statements.
Advocates launched a fierce campaign against Green and claimed victory when he withdrew his nomination from consideration last month.
Now LGBT groups are gearing up for the next fight, which they expect to be over transgender recruits.
Under the plan set out in the Obama administration, transgender people wishing to join the military would be allowed to enlist if a doctor certifies they have been stable in their identified gender for 18 months. Further, the Pentagon would review the 18-month wait period within two years to make sure it's based on up-to-date science and lessons learned about the policy up to that point.
Those who opposed allowing transgender troops to serve openly argued the Pentagon did not sufficiently study whether doing so would affect readiness, arguments they are renewing now that Mattis faces a decision on recruits.
Thomas Spoehr, director of the Center for National Defense at the Heritage Foundation, said Mattis should take as much time as he needs to make a decision regardless of the July 1 deadline.
The yearlong study done by the Obama administration prior to the policy change looked less at readiness and more about how to implement the change, Spoehr said.
Spoehr stressed that he's not advocating for keeping transgender troops out of the military, just taking more time to study the readiness effects.
"I think there's an opportunity to have a fact-based look at this," he said. "There is no rush. There is nobody being harmed."
Another reason Spoehr said a delay might be necessary is because the Trump administration has yet to choose an undersecretary of Defense for personnel, who would be the go-to person for such a review.
Belkin, of the Palm Center, called the readiness argument "phony." His organization will soon release a report that tracked about two dozen transgender troops since last year and found that the new policy has made it easier for them to do their jobs and promoted readiness with no disruptions, he said.
He also highlighted a RAND Corp report commissioned by the Pentagon last year that predicted "a minimal impact on readiness from allowing transgender personnel to serve openly."
"Last year, the chiefs said inclusion would promote readiness. They were part of the yearlong process, and they agreed that inclusion helps the military," Belkin said.
LGBT groups are vowing to make their case.
Ashley Broadway-Mack, president of the American Military Partner Association, said it would be "unconscionable" to delay accepting transgender recruits. Still, she's hopeful Mattis will continue the policy as planned.
"It would be unconscionable to reverse course now and continue to force transgender recruits to hide their gender identity in order to enter the military," she said in a statement.
Broadway-Mack said there are already "thousands of brave transgender men and women openly and proudly serving our nation today."
"We are hopeful that Secretary Mattis understands this fact," she continued. "It is crucially important that he move forward with the timeline and implement the final piece of this policy allowing anyone who is qualified and willing to serve, regardless of their gender identity."
http://thehill.com/policy/defense/336167-lgbt-groups-brace-for-new-fight-over-transgender-troops