Hi all,
I hope I can explain this right.
I am in my early 40s and have struggled with gender identity since I was a child. As I grew older, I hid it very well, in fact I think I may have hid it too well. I went on to get married and start a family as many of us do/did.
Well...the cross dressing seemed to ease the tension for decades, but it slowly started becoming less effective. It felt like I was a fraud and that no one really knew who I was. I was also dealing with severe body dysphoria and fear of aging as a man. So in 2015, I went on a low dose of HRT to treat those issues. 6 months later I was at half dose, and now I have been on full dose HRT for over a year.
I am facing some severe marital issues now, which is really sad. It exploded because my wife got an amazing job opportunity out of state and wants to relocate my child and I. It forced us to have some difficult discussions and it forced me to get out my crystal ball as to where my trans feelings will take me. I feel like it would be a great opportunity for all of us to move, IF we stay married which will only happen IF I don't fully transition. In other words, if I mostly present male with the understanding that I can continue hormones and privately cross dress at home when no one is there, we could stay married and have great lifestyle in this new town. If I can't pull that off, we get divorced, I am stuck in this unfamiliar far away place indefinitely, away from the rest of my family (supportive brother and parents), I will have taken steps backwards in my career, and basically my world will be shattered. So we discussed all that and things are deteriorating rapidly.
Finally...my question. For transgender individuals identifying very female (no question about that) and on hormones, is transition inevitable. Just trying to figure out how much I am willing to sacrifice with my wife to protect myself down the road.
Any advice is truly appreciated!!
Katie
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I'm not sure anyone can answer that question. Let me ask some instead. How happy are you living as you've described just now? How much of that happiness is due to having your supportive family near by? How likely are you to start thinking that moving you to where your only supports are your wife and kids was only a way to keep you under thumb?
I think moving to a new area is a great way to transition and not have to explain that you're not cis. I think it's also a good way to make you dependent upon someone else's good will, regardless if that was the intention for the move.
Was it her ultimatum to not transition fully in public or being kicked out? Or are you just scared it might happen despite her acceptance to your HRT?
I think eventually male clothes will stop fit you and people would start questioning your gender anyway...
My take on it - if it came down to ultimatums, your relations might be already passed the point of no returns. Otherwise, women sacrificed their careers for their men, you want to be a woman, why not show it by following your family (yet with understanding that you will be transitioning and publicly out as soon as you are ready)?
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You may be setting yourself up in a situation that makes you more unhappy in the long run by letting your wife set this rule.
To answer your question though, it's hard to say for sure how people will view you if you dress like a guy and stay on HRT, the physical results can vary quite a lot. If you don't do facial hair removal, and wear a men's hairstyle, people will generally look at that more than body shape when gendering you. There are many other factors like jawbone shape and overall size that play a role as well.
Thank you both for fresh perspectives. It was definitely an ultimatum that if I transition, we would separate in some way, but would still be friends. I'm just scared because I'd be moving out-of-state with my 10 year old son, if we get divorced I can't just move him back. I've also been with my company for 20 years, and while they are not the most open minded people, I think my seniority might help keep me employed through a transition.
My brother and parents have also been really important to me through everything so far, and I don't think I could afford to fly out to see them very often as a single dad on single income. It's just so hard because I find myself in tears a lot more recently, and while the body changes are absolutely wonderful, I think back to earlier years of my life that weren't that bad and wonder why I had to go and change everything.
At this point, I'm already getting misgendered and people are starting to talk. My clothes are starting to look weird and I have to bind my chest at work. But...I'm making it work and I might (a big might) be able to carry on this act indefinitely. Just wish I knew what my odds were!
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I already lived separately from my family/children - I was laid off and got a job offer in another state, I had to take it - anything is better than unemployment insurance (and it was decent really). I know each of us will survive (and even be happy) on our own. I had opportunity to explore myself, my wife had opportunity to tend to her interests and needs, we ended up moving together later - and I chose to scale back on my cross dressing activities (down to 0, the only trans thing I am doing at the moment - is writing here).
I think you should let your wife go and explore her wonderful job offer. You also should stay and use this opportunity to explore full transition. If at any moment you both decide that you need each other - you will be able to come to her as you are (or she will come back). If not - friendship is also a great thing, you cannot demand more
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I have to be with my son, so separating in two different states isn't an option. But maybe we can move with an agreement that if I transition, we will live together as friends, in an open marriage till my sons 18. Lots to think about here and I thank you again for commenting!!
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Quote from: katiemoz on June 19, 2017, 02:50:40 PM
I have to be with my son, so separating in two different states isn't an option. But maybe we can move with an agreement that if I transition, we will live together as friends, in an open marriage till my sons 18. Lots to think about here and I thank you again for commenting
Is there a court order demanding you to stay in the same state? Can you prevent her taking your son anywhere she likes? I don't think so. I also know that if people want to continue relations with there children, they can overcome the distance with phone calls and skype, etc. And if relations turn into ugly custody battles, they can lose their children even if they live next door to each other.
I don't think it is fair for you to stop her taking that opportunity. And if it came to ultimatums, all your sacrifices won't be for anything. I don't know if you have any expectations of finding a job in the new state for yourself at all, if you can - maybe it would be the best thing - being able to start a new job as a female, instead of facing all people you worked before for many years. If you cannot - what would be your plan? Becoming a housewife? Would she want you around anyway in that role? Would she still need you in a year, even if you continue binding and wearing male clothes?
Good luck, any way you choose, it's not easy
Transitioning is not inevitable. That decision is a balance between the pain of dysphoria and the problems of transitioning. You have to place that balance wherever it will work for you.
What is inevitable is that the dysphoria will never go away unless you transition. If you can live with it, then you can live with it. If it becomes too much, then transition is the cure.
Many people have successfully not transitioned. However, your dysphoria sounds pretty strong, so carefully consider your own needs.
Quote from: KathyLauren on June 19, 2017, 03:18:03 PM
Transitioning is not inevitable. That decision is a balance between the pain of dysphoria and the problems of transitioning. You have to place that balance wherever it will work for you.
What is inevitable is that the dysphoria will never go away unless you transition. If you can live with it, then you can live with it. If it becomes too much, then transition is the cure.
Many people have successfully not transitioned. However, your dysphoria sounds pretty strong, so carefully consider your own needs.
Spot on reply! But here is my fear: Can you be the husband and father that you want to be wearing a boy suit? I tried but ultimately could not, so I paid the price and began to fully live. You can continue to live as a man, although you will become increasingly feminine (have you begun laser or electrolysis yet?) and eventually wearing sports bras, loose shirts, and playing the role becomes problematic. Or you can be honest with yourself, and your family and hopefully with some family therapy come to a conclusion that keeps what doors are still open ajar.
Good Luck and Peace,
JB
Kathy, I agree that it will never go away, and I can't live with the body dysphoria, so at a minimum, I will carry on with hormones and see where the road takes me.
JB, I have some small liberties at home to express myself and my son is fully aware of what's going on...at least as well as he can understand it. I have gone through many rounds of laser on my face and body, so almost nothing left. I can wander around in girl shorts and tank top so it's like a little mini home transition. I am still able to be a good parent to him in whatever form this takes, so hopefully that will continue to be okay. My wife is really having difficulty getting past my body change though, so prolonged hrt could be the most problematic for us.
I talked with her more today, since you all commented and we decided to work on our marriage. I will try and make relocating work, and if I must transition fully at some point, she committed to staying together in the same house until my son's 18. So maybe I'll give her the opportunity and I will go along for the ride. At least the move is to one of the most trans-friendly cities in the US:)
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If I could offer some advice and join in on the discussion I have to parts I'd like to share and I hope that perhaps it'll give you some guidance to go on. However I should note we're all different so each of our journeys vary so what may have been good for me or my friend who is also transitioning may not be for you.
I was very young when I started to feel different and I was crossdressing since as far back as I can remember. My story is long and painful and I've met, read and had discussions with many others who have similar stories as mine and as you've shared here. I believe that transition is inevitable yes especially if you're dealing with a severe case of dysphoria like I was several years ago.
Personally you can only hide your feelings for so long as every time you bury them they'll eventually come back to the surface stronger then the last time. I learned that hiding my dysphoria can cause some pretty serious problems and because I was so afraid of losing my friends and family I paid a major price and almost the ultimate one. Luckily I was given a second and even a third chance and I made the decision that I could no longer live a lie. One thing I learned from lurking here at Susan's for years and from others is that no matter how rough the road becomes it does xan and does get better if you're willing to accept yourself for who you are and take the step forward towards transitioning.
I have a friend named Kim who is well known throughout the trans community and I'm very close to her. Kim and I share a lot in common including when we started to transition and both our families where very religious and conservative. Though I never married and had only myself and my mother whom I'm a parental caregiver for at the time. Kim was married, had several beautiful children, a deep military background and a wonderful career. Kim felt much the same as I did, that she had to transition and could no longer live pretending to be someone she was not.
The problem was as Kim continued to get further into transition it became harder and harder to hide the changes that were taking shape with her body and her marriage began to strain. Kim also didn't want to cause her children any undo harm to their schooling and how people would treat them when they found out that their father was transgender. Kim was in a tight corner for a nearly 2 years and her therapist ( Who happens to be mine as well) was advising her that she needed to start opening up to her family and moving forward with transition if she really wanted to be happy.
Kim was forced to finally admit the truth to her wife and sadly her wife was not accepting, extremely angry, calling their marriage a lie and demanding a divorce. I've watched as my friend has gone through such heartache over the last 8 months and how she struggles to deal with that everyday. However as time has passed her wife started to be somewhat accepting for the good of their children. Her kids have accepted her and she has begun the process of living a new life as herself. The road has been tough but she ultimately has made it through and I think it's a lesson that might offer some help to your situation.
I noted your follow up post and if you'd like to talk or need a friendly ear I'm happy to listen.
Best wishes,
Kensi
No i don't think tranisition is inevitable it really depends entirely on YOU and how your dysphoria manifests
From personal Experience. Pre Transition in my early 20's I tried the part time crossdressing coping strategy too but for me it DEFINATELY wasn't enough. I started my transition at 24 and havn't looked back.
Yes i lost my job when i came out and a lot of family (including a partner, which in most cases is just inevitable) and friends. It was a lonely and very difficult time but it was all worth it to be who i truly am.
What's that saying? "its better to be at the bottom of a ladder you WANT to climb than half way up one you don't." :)
A lot of this narrative sounds like my life. In my case my wife knew of my gender issues from about day 1. She also knew of my utter failed transition experiments and I finally settling on being "Just a CD". The monthly or so escapes from maleness helped, but in time the shame and guilt of stealing what little time we had together on weekends, the effect on her of seeing Joanne whenever she looked at me for days afterwards, and the easy stuffing excuse of having a thousand other "More Important" things to do mostly put and end to that.
Until the excrement hit the air handler once again. After having too much quality time alone I came to realize I needed to take the Trans-Beast on for real. Found a super support group, started working on myself, and also started HRT and therapy. I grew a lot as a person.
I also grew in other ways my wife is not all that thrilled about. She is supportive, to a point, of what I need to do. Becoming a far better person then that lifeless, soulless "Thing" I was also helped with her. After 8 years of juggling I still manage to live, work, and present primarily as a male. A few years back I had the luxury of being able to life part-time as female. Those days are gone. Perhaps forever. Which makes it easy for my wife to readily say she would likely be able to handle me going back to part-time after a move from our "Village" filled with pitch fork and torch carrying neighbors. Full-time is definitely out of the question for her.
As my wife, therapist, and very very occasionally myself, will tell me "No one can predict the future, much less control it" TBH-I have an awful track record when it comes to predicting the future about myself, or personal things. Most days I don't feel like I NEED to transition. Yes, I have found joy in being out in the real world as the real me. I miss that I cannot at this point in life due to other priorities.
I do what I can to keep all aspects of my life in balance as best as I can. As you know, it is not easy with so many conflicting needs and wants. Most days I don't feel I need to fully transition. TBH - I have made a major transition, from a "Thing" and into a Person. A person who can now say I don't hate living in my own skin. A person who most days sees Joanne in the mirror and not "The Sad Old Man". That's "most days". Then, there are the other days :( Far fewer and much further apart then what they were 8 years ago.
Transition is never inevitable. The sad suicide statistics prove that. Even for those that feel that they NEED to. Hopefully, if the day comes that I need to, I will be able to harness the strength I have gained and really have the confidence to carry through with transition because I really do feel I need to. Perhaps even if I simply want to, because the potential to feel and hopefully be 100% genuine far outweighs the risk it carries today.
Quote from: KatieByrne on June 21, 2017, 02:30:03 AM
What's that saying? "its better to be at the bottom of a ladder you WANT to climb than half way up one you don't." :)
Or "I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not"
Or, more simply put, "If you bring forth what is within you, what you bring forth will save you. If you do not bring forth what is within you, what you do not bring forth will destroy you."
If you want to be happy and authentic, then it kind of is inevitable...
I guess it depends on our definitions of transition. I feel we are transitioning as soon as we take that first pill. But will we ever be able to finish transitioning?? I really want to say more but it is super late and my brain stops when I get too tired. I think there is a lot we could relate on. I would love to talk in a PM.
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Quote from: Norma Lynne on June 28, 2017, 01:26:02 AM
I guess it depends on our definitions of transition. I feel we are transitioning as soon as we take that first pill.
Hi Norma,
I think my wife would agree with that statement. Having been in this process for 2 years, (1 year Spiro then 1 year low dose E), she says my body and personality have changed considerably. Maybe the world hasn't noticed but she has. It's too bad she doesn't like the results.
Paige :)
I am sorry to hear your predicament, i dont think its inevitable but you have to ask yourself "can i do this (live in the wrong gender) and maintain a healthy relationship with your spouce? For me inwas in a relationship for 6 years which i was forthcoming of my trans thoughts but they were never taken seriously. So eventually the feelings became to strong and i said to hell with it and dove in i lost/got rid of everyone i knew and i started over full time for about 9 years now give or take. i regret nothing the feeling you get when you can just be you is amazing.
On the other hand only do this when you have a saftey net somewere to live, money in which to live, and people who will love and support you no matter what. Once these ducks are in a row then maybe go for it. lots of pros and cons here but at the end of the day you need to live and be as happy as you can. you owe that to yourself, but are you ready to change your world? only you can answer that. not to be presumptive but i feel if your on here and on HRT you are already leaning one way.
I hope that helped you can always PM me if you want
Always Alice
no I dont think it is inevitable but for me I believe it was I was looking at either suicide or to start to transition, I always hated my self the way I was the way I looked and I truly did not feel myself unless I was in make up and womens clothes I felt so good for me and made me happy and I could see me.
It's not for everyone, I'm sure lots of people take it to the grave, there's only statistics for people who do transition, because overwhelmingly non transitioners tell no one that they ever even thought of it. So conventional wisdom is that it is inevitable, but the likelihood of that being true is questionable.
Thank you all for your insightful comments. Every single one has brought clarity on some level, especially because we are all at different places on this journey.
I've been feeling a little more at piece this past week and am trying to worry less about every twist and turn that might come up. As of now (and it can change on a dime) we're happily moving on with our marriage (and likely relocating) with the knowledge that I must continue hormones and be "me" at home and that this could someday lead to presenting female full time. I was a little bummed at the slowness with which the hormones were working but in hind sight, I think it saved my marriage, for now. Hopefully with slow incremental changes, and the occasional leap, we can reach a mutually acceptable path to full or near transition. But if not, I'll be okay...just starting up a different ladder:) We'll see.
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You sound so much like me. My wife is getting more comfortable with me wearing clothes that make me feel like me at home. And a little outside the house. The more I read your posts, the more it seem like there is not much difference other than I am in full dose. I've been just over 8 months and I present as male out side the house most of the time. The only thing that might give me away is that I am having a decent outcome in the breast area so far. I started with shots at first so I could adjust the dosage until I felt "right" So about the first 3 months were me finding that sweet spot to where my brain worked again. When the doctor and I discussed it we were not too surprised that I was at full dose. Hang in there and treat her like a queen, go slow and introduce new things to her slowly and let her get used to it. Then once she is ok with something. Try a new thing. It's been working for me. So far. Always putting her feelings first has worked.
My next thing is wearing a bra full time. First I have to get my self used to it. Then I will work on her getting used to it. And the last thing was carrying a purse full time. That one seemed easy. But once she got used to it I was able to buy a new purse last time we were at the mall. And she actually paid for it. But the purses can not be too girly yet. I know that for some of us it is impossible to go slow like we are. But when the wife is so important. Like mine is to me and like yours sounds to you, slow is the only way to go. Because without her my life would suck.
QuoteMy next thing is wearing a bra full time. First I have to get my self used to it.
Nothing to it, at least in my experience. I went to a bra shop and was fitted. I then wore my bra out of the store and went back to work. I've been wearing one daily ever since. I have not taken hormones, but nicely fill a 38A.