I sponsored a number of girls for Ms Tiffiny Universe and Ms Perfect Angel. These girls transitioned at 12 years old, and just shows that if a society accepts tgs at a young age they can be beautiful. Some choose to keep their penis, others are post op. No one asks or cares and they are proud to be the 3rd gender. They ladies below made it to the finals.
Thank you Susan for putting the pics up for me.
They are proud to be considered a '3rd gender'? Personally, I would never be satisfied being considered a '3rd gender', regardless of my beauty or ability to pass.
The entire point of my transition is to be fully accepted as a woman, not as 'something else'. Is this the way that transgender women are treated in Thailand? Maybe it's not as nice there as I thought. :(
I have visited Thailand several times and found nearly all locals very polite and sincere. I think accommodating and celebrating a third gender is great. It's just an additional category to acknowledge people can succeed and fit in without meeting requirements of the traditional gender binary.
Warlockmaker, thank you for giving back to your community.
I'm firmly in 3rd gender territory. I would love to live in a society where it was 100% accepted.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: echo7 on June 26, 2017, 09:14:53 AM
They are proud to be considered a '3rd gender'? Personally, I would never be satisfied being considered a '3rd gender', regardless of my beauty or ability to pass.
The entire point of my transition is to be fully accepted as a woman, not as 'something else'. Is this the way that transgender women are treated in Thailand? Maybe it's not as nice there as I thought. :(
Hi Echo, You have a point that is partially true. Its because they cannot change their gender on passports or id. This I believes makes tg deveop a pride in being the 3rd gender.
And we cannot ever be fully a female, we do not have the biology for it. But we are female tg whether we pass or not. This give us a a group identiity where passing is no longer the issue. and a cause of so much grief. And where being tg female or cis does not matter with men, except that its in the open that you cannot have children.
Quote from: echo7 on June 26, 2017, 09:14:53 AM
They are proud to be considered a '3rd gender'? Personally, I would never be satisfied being considered a '3rd gender', regardless of my beauty or ability to pass.
The entire point of my transition is to be fully accepted as a woman, not as 'something else'. Is this the way that transgender women are treated in Thailand? Maybe it's not as nice there as I thought. :(
Echo7, the big issue to be
fully accepted as a woman, not as 'something else' exists because you are assimilated into a culture that strongly believes in the gender binary mythos. That mythos is primarily a Western European cultural construct with roots in a specific set of theologies. Other cultures do not suffer from this as much, with biases largely added recently through colonial efforts from cultures that do hold this belief.
It is entirely possible to be a woman, and be accepted as a woman, while acknowledging ones unusual origin via a transgender pathway. Not all cultures demean women with unusual origins. Those that do seem to have a generalized mysogyny, with unusual origins such as a transgender history being an excuse to display that contempt or prejudice.
I am a woman, and am fully accepted as such within certain subcultures. Others reject me, and I reject them, questioning their validity and mysogynist underpinnings.
I am a woman, and my transgender origin is just a medical issue, very much like one of the millions of women who have had a total hysterectomy and like me, find themselves taking estradiol via a prescription. My medical endpoint will have me anatomically identical to these women. They and I are not
'something else' due to the lack of a uterus or cervix. A woman with total androgen insensitivity is still a woman, in spite of that XY chromosome set instead of XX. They are not 'something else' and may not even be aware of the medical nature of their origin.
I've worked for companies where departmental silo's are the norm with each department looks out for it's own. Very little communication among them. I spent five years trying to change the culture at Boeing and break down silo's. It's a long hard slog, but at least now with departments agreeing to cooperate with each other they all benefit. I bring this up as I have observed that we in the LGBTQ society seem to prefer silos where everyone seems to be looking out for themselves. As a group we are strong. Split we appear just as prejudice as those who don't accept us.
Quote from: warlockmaker on June 26, 2017, 11:06:29 AM
Hi Echo, You have a point that is partially true. Its because they cannot change their gender on passports or id. This I believes makes tg deveop a pride in being the 3rd gender.
I didn't know that. If I understand you correctly, transgender women in Thailand are stuck with an "M" on all of their government-issued ID's, forever? Even after they have had FFS, GCS/SRS, and any other surgeries? And regardless of how early in life they transitioned, as long as they were assigned male at birth? If that's true, I'm disappointed.
Quote from: DawnOday on June 26, 2017, 01:40:49 PM
I've worked for companies where departmental silo's are the norm with each department looks out for it's own. Very little communication among them. I spent five years trying to change the culture at Boeing and break down silo's. It's a long hard slog, but at least now with departments agreeing to cooperate with each other they all benefit. I bring this up as I have observed that we in the LGBTQ society seem to prefer silos where everyone seems to be looking out for themselves. As a group we are strong. Split we appear just as prejudice as those who don't accept us.
+1 for the smartest post of the day. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
I googled the answer to my question and learned that in Thailand, transgender women cannot change their gender from male to female on their identification documents. Further, they must show up for conscription on draft days with other cis men, which is a consequence of still being legally identified as male. It appears that while TG women in Thailand enjoy broad acceptance in their society, that acceptance is based on being seen as a 3rd gender instead of being accepted as a woman. That explains why the legal system does not support TG women as having equal status as cis women.
I suppose this is fine if one identifies as a non-binary transgender person and is actually a good system for that (although some non-binary people may want to change their gender on their ID's to "X" or "N", but the laws don't allow that in Thailand either). But when it comes to binary transgender women in Thailand who want to be fully and wholly accepted as a woman, especially legally, it almost seems as if Thailand is less socially progressive than western nations. I'm disappointed.
Isn't Thailand were the slur "lady boy" originated?
Appreciate you posting thus but I feel that a beauty contest for kids is disgusting full stop.
They are children. Let them be children rather than making them adults too soon.
Just my opinion :)
Michelle, love your post, couldnt express it better. Thank you
Kairi, these are not children they are all over 21 yrs old. They transitioned early in life.True that Asian women look younger by western perception but they are not kids.
Echo, i wrote about this before. Cultural acceptance versus laws. Where there is cultural acceptance the law becomes moot. Its nothing against anyone but just an ID. Ideally alk oir ids in the future will be genderless. I belive the UK will be offering this soon.
Julia, Being referred to as Ladyboy, Katoey, TGs is not a slur. Its a slur when you add expelitives. Its difficult for westerner tgs to understand and maybe accept that you can id with being female but you will always be tg. Sorry if this may upset your western thinking. I just love Michelle response which may help you understand
warlockmaker.
I'm sorry I misunderstood :(
I thought you meant a pagent aged 12.
My mistake :)