Last night my brother and his friend Cameron were watching OITNB. Funny thing about that, once when I was watching it I told my brother he should watch it. He said no, that he wasn't into chick shows. So he's messing with his phone and looks up during one of the many lesbian sex scenes. After that he started watching it. I'm totally sure he told his friends because suddenly if they didn't have any plans one of them would say " hey, lets watch that prison show" . So last night they were watching it and it was an episode with Sophia in it. So Cameron asks me what the deal was with Sophia having a wife. He said someone had messed up with the writing because she wouldn't have a wife she would have a husband. I told him many transwomen had wives. He said that didn't make any sense and if they liked women why would they transition. So I explained how gender and sexuality are totally different things. He still didn't get it. He said if a transwomen liked girls why not stay male. Then he asked wasn't the whole reason for transition to attract and be with guys. I told him no it wasn't. Then I tried to explain the difference between gender and sexuality to him again. I told him transpeople can be gay, straight, bi, etc. Then he asked if there were transmen who were gay and I told him absolutely there were. He said that really made no sense at all. He said if someone was female they already could get guys and why the hell would anyone who could have V sex with a guy want to go to "taking it up the A" his words. I spent like 20 minutes trying to explain it to him. He still didn't get it. Then he said " you like guys right?" I told him yes I like guys. He said " yeah that makes sense. I couldn't picture you liking girls even before ". So then I just gave up. Cameron is actually a nice guy. He's just totally ignorant about trans issues. Like mist CIS people. So it I guess that CIS people think transwomen should only like guys and transmen should only like women. And CIS guys especially, think a MtF transitions just to attract and have sex with men. It's totally sad how clueless CIS people are.
Does he believe CIS gay/lesbians don't exist? .....kind of the same thing :)
ah jesus! The reason MtF transition is to attract guys?
thats news to me.
Especially as I dont find men attractive.
Comparing my memories of growing up in the male world and how guys that age act and apparently think, I'm not surprised by his understanding or lack there of. I remember well the way testosterone made me think about girls it seemed constantly. Yes I sexually wanted them. But somehow I never could quite understand the way all the other guys talked about sex, and how it seemed the focus of their life at the time. There was always some difference I could not equate to. Like in high school when a pretty girl walked past the guys would all turn their heads and then after she was out of earshot there was the immediate "I'd bang that" type of comments. So after hearing the comment I would think, yes I would too, but never once was that the first thought in my head. Of course for me after seeing a pretty girl walk past my first feeling was how she was attractive then a hard shot of disappointment in my body.
Anyway trying to put those memories into perspective I think that normal cis males in that age group really do not understand any concept of gender outside of sexuality. The drive to the act of sex itself seems like that is the only understanding they have. For him there was only logic in changing your gender if sex is involved.
My theory, take it or leave it ;)
It's not just cis people who are confused. Before I looked it up, I thought the same as him- one of the main reasons I want to transition is because I want to have straight sex. I'm a ftm and I actually have cis people explain gender stuff to me more than the other way around :D
If you haven't had to think about it, it can be hard to have it explained to you. He may mull it over some other time and figure it out.
I give up if people don't get it within a few minutes. It's good to be polite and try and explain things to people, but they can google things too.
Yeah everyone is confused and cis people more. There is just not enough of us engaging with the general population out there. Like you, i like to educate people any chance i get but it does get to be sad at times. Like, why can't everyone just understand this?
Most people live in their own bubble of existence that is somewhat reinforced by others in similar bubbles. Sexuality drives so much of human thought and i agree too that testosterone does it in different way. Why someone can't simply understand that there are gay people of all sorts; men, women, trans men and women, non-binary etc is beyond me.
I have noticed younger people (guys mainly but not entirely) tend to view everything in their existence as either maximizing or reducing their potential dating pool as though it was all a big math thing. On that logic why would you do anything to narrow your pool? Of course that is not how it all works and the heart wants what the heart wants.
QuoteAnd CIS guys especially, think a MtF transitions just to attract and have sex with men. It's totally sad how clueless CIS people are.
Yup, people come up with all sorts of strange rationales in their heads trying to explain trans folks away. I've had this one thrown at me a few times as part of a larger discussion. One guy argued that I was just too gay, trying to attract straight men, outside the gay community. Another argued that I was a 'failed gay' who couldn't accept being a man attracted to men. Oy. Both arguments failed horribly, as I pointed out to them, because I identify as a 'blue jean femme' lesbian, strongly attracted to women.
Humans can be very silly in their thinking sometimes. They were trying so hard to hang a male gender identity on me, and that's just not who I am. I am a woman, I am a lesbian, and I got here by being a transgender person.
I unfortunately got a similar idea in my head somehow, that it made no sense to be trans as I am so attracted to women.
It's hard to say how long it set me back, and still creeps back into my head from time to time. Perhaps it is so persistent because I got it from my mom. She somehow thinks gay guys would be "cured" by transitioning, and doesn't really understand the difference between gay and trans.
Actually, now that I just wrote that, it sounds so silly. I don't think she'll ever understand though. I may have confused her by coming out as trans as a kid, and later having openly gay male friends.
I don't mind explaining or educating cis people who are genuinely open minded and have a desire to understand. It's clear from his reaction that he has no real desire to expand his mind so I wouldn't even bother trying. Some people are hateful, some are just blissfully ignorant and have no desire to change, some are ignorant but want to learn and some proactively educate themselves. The latter two groups are the ones where our allies come from and are the ones that I'm willing to work with to further awareness. The other two groups, thankfully seemingly much smaller than the latter two, can simply go find a rock to crawl back under.
Ehh, clueful and sensitive is where you find it. I saw an old friend just before I left for surgery, he was one of the first trans, pansexual people I knew and when we first met went by the name Santa, I only ever saw him dressed femme in the first year I knew him.
And yet, when I saw him 3 months ago I was simply gobsmacked when he said something about my up coming surgery and referred to it as elective.
I didn't and won't bother to correct him, smart, open etc but nobody is perfect. As the op says it takes energy.
1. I grew up Conservative Christian
2. At 21, I came out as gay
3. At 30, I'm coming out as trans
I have no idea what most people from my early days think. I do know there is essentially no sex ed there (did I mention I also spent all 12 years of school in the same building as the church, and it was run by the pastor's wife?) Despite the vast availability of education online, the nature of online allows anyone to focus on what they want, and throw out the rest. Heck, the ratio of pregnant girls in my school probably wasn't much different than a larger public school.
It sucks that each generation seems so progressive in pockets, with blatant ignorance being too much the norm. That ignorance didn't start with the current generation of teens/20-somethings, it's been passed down. I have cis female friends that are running into similar issues of having to explain sexuality or equality or the ridiculous "would you ever questions." Talk about being sick of explaining things