Today we had a door installed, and I hung around to watch it get put in. I BSed with the door installer guy, and we hit it off pretty well as guys...or so I thought.
When it came time to shake hands, I got the "Ladies Handshake," you know, the gentle, weak handshake (sorry ladies) instead of the strong handshake I gave him. I was so shocked that I didn't correct him in any way.
The bf and I ended up going out to eat, and I was still so upset about my lack of reaction to the handshake that I was sorely tempted to darken my baby-hair mustache with mascara (something I haven't felt the need to do in at least six months) even if only to appear more male to myself.
Instead, I decided to come on here and get ideas as to how to handle such a situation.
This isn't the first time this has happened. I was thinking I should take the other man's wrist with my free hand and say, "Naw man, I'm a guy, not a lady, lets shake hands properly," or something along those lines. I now have a nice, deep voice, so that wasn't what gave it away.
Unfortunately, my family is cursed with the "eternal baby face," which makes you look young. (I'm 55.) My facial hair is still that of a 13 year old boy's despite nearly 9 months on T. My mustache is very fine, my sideburns are not as noticable as I'd like, nor do they look like a beard yet, and my goatee is very sparse and under my chin where its not easily seen. (I'm cosplaying in my icon pic, so I'm wearing a fake mustache and goatee.)
What should I have done about the handshake and what should I do should this happen in the future? I'm guessing I'm not the first man this has happened to.
Ryuichi
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Well, first of all, nine months on T is essentially nothing especially in terms of facial hair. How many thirteen year old boys do you see running around with anything noteworthy on their faces? Most guys really don't have anything of substance until their late teens and, even then, it tends to be sparse. It slowly fills out in their twenties.
It sucks that we got a much later start but it's just the reality of the situation. You can't compete with other 55 year old dudes in this circumstance because they've been where you are for forty two years. Now, obviously, it didn't take 42 years for their facial hair to come in decently, but it's just going to take time. Don't be too hard on yourself as far as that's concerned. It's frustrating as all hell, but you're not alone.
As far as the handshake thing goes, some guys just have piss poor handshakes. I never get read as anything other than male and very occasionally get the creepy weak feeling handshake that makes me want to stab something. It could be that he was just one of those guys, though I know it's hard not to read into things like that.
How was the banter between the two of you? If he wasn't actively treating you like a woman beforehand, I doubt he'd choose the handshake to express that.
If you really feel the need to say something when it happens, I'd recommend a joking but poignant approach:
"What the hell kind of handshake is that? Come on, man."
I only say this because guys don't go around declaring that they're men because they don't need to do so. It may raise a red flag or, at the very least, make for a very awkward 'uh, ooookkkayyy' reaction.
Some guys just don't know to shake hands and do it poorly. I wouldn't think it was because he thought about you being anything other than just another guy so I wouldn't worry about.
As far as I'm concerned, this so called "ladies handshake" can go die in a fire because I'm a lady and I hate it with a passion.
Although I'm not much of a fan of shaking hands, I don't back down from it or look sheepish when it's put forward. It it's offered, first of all try to impart a decent sort of grip and stiffness of the arm as you shake. Or, offer the handshake yourself first with the palm down and the hand tilted so that your hand is the one on top. That's considered a fairly dominant gesture within handshake "etiquette". Sometimes people use it to size others up a bit and in that case the amount of enthusiasm you put into it is up to however you want to come across. There are actually quite a few different ways to shake a hand... different styles so to speak. I picked them up from watching other people doing it as a kid. I tend to prefer giving the short-strong-sincere shakes than longer ones with added gestures. Body language counts, too - look the other person in the eye while doing it, and make sure your body is saying "confidence" with posture.
I don't much care about the quality of my handshakes, but whenever I do shake hands I automatically impart the stiffness aspect to it so that it isn't a sloppy or weak handshake, like the ones I had to do in school as a kid when receiving school awards or certificates or whatever. I reckon the handshake itself is generally a social ritual of affirmation and ought to look and feel sincere (to the other person) even if it's not.
But different cultures approach it differently, in the West a stronger handshake is preferred, in parts of Asia and the ME that can be considered intimidating (they often prefer weak handshakes) so it depends on where you are how you should do it.
Sometimes guys put a conscious effort not to hurt another guy. For instance, if one guy is 250lb 6' and working in construction, he would be very conscious not to apply all his strength on anyone but his buddies, especially not on a 130 lb 5'5" guy (whether he's trans or not.
Want a stronger one? Try to squeeze his hand to overpower him and make him wimp a little. Treat it as a wrestling match.
I never knew guys had a specific handshake. So guys judge each other by how hard they shake hands??? Guys are so weird. No offense guys. You just have some strange social rules.
A possible change is to bring your hand in from the side and angled sideways down a little. It's hard to explain, but like arm wrestling but the other direction. And with some force but not aggressive.
I never thought about describing that, sorry.
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Lots of guys have weak handshakes. I wouldn't read too much into it.
It might have even been a subconscious(or conscious) signal of submission to you as the alpha.
I'm a counselor so I shake a lot of hands. First off I hate it because I've no idea how clean a person's hands are so I sometimes say I'm getting over a cold to avoid it. Anyway, the handshake quality of guys varies from awful to painful. Not all men have that super strong, aggressive shake. Plenty do the barely touching you and using too much weak wrist thing. I do get the crazy strong ones and i don't like it. You're assuming it is because of their perception of you but what evidence of this do you have? Its more projection than anything else. If you want to be the strong shake guy then go in for it yourself.
It also depends on the palm size. Mine are wide (good genes and years of T), so I get usually strong shakes and I press until I feel resistance if I see someone of equal or bigger size, but not turn it into a wrestling match. If other person hand is limp and not equally energetic, I stop (maybe after bringing a bit of pain to the other person).
If I see other person's hand as a no match, I won't initially press unless the other person starts it (lady shake)? But it's based solely on hands width, not on my opinion of that person
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I agree with most everyone else. Some men just shake hands like that. I've always had a strong handshake, and I can't stand weak handshakes, but I've gotten them from men and women, and I've gotten strong ones from both men and women.
Saying something just seems like it would be very awkward, and if you are misreading the situation, would make it even more uncomfortable. Just my thoughts......
As someone who has lived as a male my whole life I can tell you two things.
1.) Some guys have weak handshakes.
2.) I will shake a ladies hand the same way I would shake a man's. Firmly, but not too strong. Only if the woman really shows signs of not being able to handle it (like if she is elderly or a small child) will I adjust it for a lady.
It is possible he did it because he thought you were a woman, but I really doubt it. A handshake is a handshake.
Well so is there like some certain way a woman is supposed to shake hands? I have really never given this subject any thought. Even before I transitioned I always had guys give me very gentle handshakes. I don't know if its because I have small hands or maybe they thought I was gay and didn't think I was worthy of a "man" handshake. To be honest I don't particularly like shaking hands with strangers. It's kind of icky. I don't know what they were doing with their hand before touching mine. Thank god for hand sanitizer.
Julia
Honestly I've always correlated strength of handshake with the confidence level of the individual giving it, not with the perceived gender of the person whose hand is being shaken. I have sometimes seen men do that wrist-gripping sort of handshake, but I don't think that's necessarily standard.
I think the guy probably just shook your hand the same way he shakes everyone's hand. I believe most people don't put that much thought into it; they just do it.
Personally I try to use a reasonably strong grip while shaking hands and don't put a lot of movement into it--just a quick, solid handshake. I feel more confident shaking hands, I've noticed, since I've started dressing and presenting as male, which is interesting.
Thank you everyone for your answers, they've given me a lot to think about.
Even before I transitioned, I've always given a strong, confident (yet never painful) handshake, probably because I'm a pretty confident person.
I suppose some men DO have "naturally weak" handshakes, its not something I've ever considered. Maybe he's one of those.
I think the next time, I'll just give my usual confident handshake. How they return it is on them.
And I agree, Julia1996, thank God for hand sanitizer! [emoji3]
Ryuichi
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He may just have a weak handshake. There's a guy at my job who comes around and shakes hands with everyone everyday. He has a weak handshake for the guys and gals. I know this cause I've heard several guys joke around about how weak it is.
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I have a weak handshake I think but it's all about kind of controlling it, have a firm grip and slightly pull it towards you a bit (not like a Trump handshake where you steal the guys hand haha).
In my culture, women greet each other with two kisses on each cheek, men greet women that way too but greet each other with a handshake. If it's a professional setting then everybody greets each other with a handshake. Well, now I feel really bad cause I'm guilty as charged of weak handshakes, lol. I never even give it too much thought. Before transition, my parents were always complaining I didn't shake hands firm enough, and the guys who gave it never held it too strong. I guess they always thought I was different...so yeah.
If you want a strong handshake, you can "ask" for it. When I was a kid, one of the dumb things the boys did was to shake each other's hands and see who could squeeze the other's hand enough to make them say uncle. If as an adult, you give a good firm grip, the other person should match it. If you give a weak grip, that to will be matched as people with conditions like arthritis can be hurt with a firm grip. The weaker of the two grips will determine how firm the grip will be.
i never really thought much about handshakes and just assumed some of the men i've met had weak handshakes... until i brought this up with a guy friend of mine and he confirmed that he (and others) will soften the handshake when meeting with a woman as opposed to a man. i haven't shaken hands with a woman as far as i can remember, so i have no basis of comparison, but i realized i'd probably do the same thing subconsciously, so i guess i can't be too insulted.
What Dena said. If you aren't obviously bigger than the other person, keep pushing hard and he will either wimp of pain or meet your force with equal or greater force. Next time he will not soften his hand to you, trust me
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Unless he also shook hands with, say, your female friend that day, you'll never know whether he usually shakes hands like that with everyone or was softening his handshake for whatever reason (as others have said, he could lighten up for those he sees as women or for those men he sees as smaller or less physical than he).
You can always, as others have said, put more challenge into your own handshake. But I think that what's bothering you is his possibly reading you as female in the first place. So I think you should just give your transition a chance to further masculinize you and take the "you must be a girl" handshake off the table. As someone else has already noted, nine months is nothing.
There are strong handshakes and strong handshakes. A lot of men I've encountered seem to have no idea that their handshakes are over the top. Others use a gorilla grip to gauge or dominate other men, and I think it's sometimes evidence of insecurity, not confidence. For example, when I was pre-transition, my ex and I met his sister's boyfriend, a big and imposing retired fighter pilot, for the first time. The boyfriend put my ex-partner's hand in a viselike grip; my ex just let his hand go completely limp to show that he was aware of the game and wasn't having any of it. This response seemed to throw the guy. Before that, the guy had shaken hands with me quite amicably without crushing my hand; as I said, I was presenting as female. But later on, when he found out that I was smart and articulate and not shy about being that way, he started to become wary of me and seemed to see me as a possible intellectual threat. I'm sure that my ex's intelligence was threatening as well, but I was a "woman." The guy avoided both of us after that encounter. All three of us--my ex, his sister, and I--were laughing about the whole affair later. I think that under all that size and bluster, the guy was just insecure as hell.
Yeah, at the end of the day, it's just a handshake.
I'd say the correct way to deal with someone saying "you _______ like a girl," is actually not to care that much.
When people say that kind of thing, they're (sometimes 'playfully') probing for a response, possibly to read more specifically how you react to the comment than the shake itself. In the same way I've beaten other guys at arm wrestling and given them a bit of a ribbing for it to see how they react, the confident ones shrug/smile it off and the insecure ones don't/can't. The ones who shrug it off you forget about - the ones who get upset you remember and remind them endlessly about it. First stop is not to get yourself worked up, the second is to work on the problem.
I'm a bit late to the party, but yeah some folks just have weak handshakes. I wouldn't read too much into it. What is this "ladies handshake" anyway?
On a related note, I've noticed at work that many of our female employees and managers shake hands as if they're trying to crush the other person's hand. I've yet to meet a male who does this. I work in an industry that has traditionally been a male territory, so my best guess is that these bone-crushing ladies are just trying to come across as strong and confident or whatever, but I can tell they are overdoing it. Overdoing I say!
IMO it's good if you have a firm handshake, but a weak one is infinitely better than the one that screams that you're trying too hard...
A firm handshake is the norm here around Boston. Most adults just match your grip, in my experience.
Hugs, Devlyn