Hi guys,
Just wanted to get your opinion on this.
I know many transmen who will get top surgery and then spend years hesitating whether or not to get bottom surgery, meta or phallo. Both have their positive and less positive sides.
I´m hesitant about meta because I would rather be a bit larger, but also hesitant about phallo because I feel it´s too far from the real thing. Perhaps if I had phallo I would change my mind, but I can´t just test-run it for a while (sadly).
So I was wondering, for guys that have been hesitating, what their thoughts are on this. Whether some of you ended up taking a decision and what made you make that decision.
Since I haven't had bottom surgery yet, I don't know how much my opinion helps, but I've been thinking a lot about bottom.
I personally won't get meto just because my lower growth would be extremely unsatisfactory for me and I'd still find myself packing. It wouldn't do much to alleviate the dysphoria I experience. I don't even know if I'd have the length to pee standing up and if I can't even do that, there's no point for me.
As for phallo, I think about it a lot. One of my main concerns is that I don't want extremely noticeable scarring. I wouldn't be comfortable with forearm procedure because of how often my forearms are visible. I know I scar well, but the length of time it takes for them to heal to that point is something I don't think I could handle. I also have forearm tattoos that I wouldn't want to part with. As for other types of phallo, I know my weight is wrong for some and unrealistic for me to get that small. I still need to do more research on others. Ultimately however, I know I'm young and that medical technology is advancing, particularly with things like stem cell research. I know the possibility of having my own dick from my own cells is a very long way off (I've seen an estimated 5-10 years for cismen and 15-20 for transmen but honestly who knows) but I have time to wait. I also have only seen and heard of phallo resulting in a circumsized appearance and if I could manage an uncut one day, that would be amazing. I'm young enough that I'm willing to wait- I'd rather wait and see where medical advancement goes than get it early and miss out on medical advancement later in my life. If I have to wait for the ability to get an erection naturally, I'd be willing to wait. I also don't feel comfortable with the replacement of the erection devices every 10 or so years, I want one surgery and to be done. Or I suppose in the case of phallo, the immediate series of surgeries and that's it.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
I am going into stage 1 phallo in two weeks but when I first started T 3 years or so ago I was hesitant. One thing I never wavered on was not wanting meta. I respect anyone who wants a meta and I love that they have that option! But for me I felt lile I've always wanted a full size penis. I want to penetrate and be with a woman and have her feel me. Sorry if that's graphic.
Phallo has come along and there are some surgeons that are absolute artists. No two cis dicks look alike. So I'm fine if my penis looks like a "phallo" at close examination. I will have a penis and testicles and I will be able to stand and pee. Its more than good enough for mw. The alternative would be my original junk or a procedure I don't want. We're probably decades away frpm the "real thing". I want to live my full life NOW. So that's my thought process.
I had originally thought I wanted meto because it had fewer complications, no 'telling' scars, and being constructed from analogous anatomy to natal penis I thought it would pass better/seem less like a surgical construction and I liked the thought of natural erections. I also had some misconceptions in terms of what phalloplasty could achieve. I was mostly sacrificing penetration (which was important but maybe not the most important).
I'm currently leaning towards phalloplasty. I began to have fewer negative feelings towards phallo after learning that nerves can regroup so you can get sensation in the phallus and, with microsurgery, even attain erotic sensation through the shaft (I had previously feared a numb tube that still relied on natal anatomy for any kind of sensation). But passing is important to me so I think the real turning point was when I was looking up post-op porn for more images of phallo and saw a comment from a gay man that it was "hot" but he doubted this was an "actual trans man" because phallo did not fit his expectation of trans genitals ( he'd clearly only heard of meto) and it struck me that despite the video showing an older surgery and being obviuosly surgically constructed to me- it wasn't to him.
I've also since spoken to a gay man with an erectile implant who said he doubted any of his partners noticed he used one and demonstrated they are not as difficult as they made out to be ( I swear some trans humor makes pumping a dick look like rocket science). Ive also spoken to a trans woman who regretted bottom surgery and opted for phallo to reverse it which cleared up some other concerns (like being constructed from non-genital skin it would feel like sew on addition and not an actual penis... Hearing from some one who had a dick that it isn't that way was reassuring).
I have few lingering concerns I still want to clear up before I commit but I am strongly leaning towards phallo currently.
[[ commenting to keep up with new responses, don't mind me ]]
Quote from: NothingHere on July 07, 2017, 08:47:15 AM
I had originally thought I wanted meto because it had fewer complications, no 'telling' scars, and being constructed from analogous anatomy to natal penis I thought it would pass better/seem less like a surgical construction and I liked the thought of natural erections. I also had some misconceptions in terms of what phalloplasty could achieve. I was mostly sacrificing penetration (which was important but maybe not the most important).
I'm currently leaning towards phalloplasty. I began to have fewer negative feelings towards phallo after learning that nerves can regroup so you can get sensation in the phallus and, with microsurgery, even attain erotic sensation through the shaft (I had previously feared a numb tube that still relied on natal anatomy for any kind of sensation). But passing is important to me so I think the real turning point was when I was looking up post-op porn for more images of phallo and saw a comment from a gay man that it was "hot" but he doubted this was an "actual trans man" because phallo did not fit his expectation of trans genitals ( he'd clearly only heard of meto) and it struck me that despite the video showing an older surgery and being obviuosly surgically constructed to me- it wasn't to him.
I've also since spoken to a gay man with an erectile implant who said he doubted any of his partners noticed he used one and demonstrated they are not as difficult as they made out to be ( I swear some trans humor makes pumping a dick look like rocket science). Ive also spoken to a trans woman who regretted bottom surgery and opted for phallo to reverse it which cleared up some other concerns (like being constructed from non-genital skin it would feel like sew on addition and not an actual penis... Hearing from some one who had a dick that it isn't that way was reassuring).
I have few lingering concerns I still want to clear up before I commit but I am strongly leaning towards phallo currently.
The misconceptions are unfortunate and do the FtM community a huge disservice because it limits our options and keeps guys from getting something they desperately want and need, a functioning penis. In terms of what it looks like I have only ever heard other FtMs say negative things. Cis men and women, and MtFs wiill look at pictures of dicks and cannot point out the phallo at first glance for the most part. Everytime I show one to my cis female friends they are impressed.
And think about it anyone who is reading this and having trouble deciding, how often does someone see and examine your dick?! Like seriously. It drives me nuts (pun intended) when guys say I don't want an obvious this or that. Well how often do you plan on whipping it out and showing it to people? Most likely only when you have sex and if you're stealth there are tons of reasons to come up with. I am not stealth but if I were I would simply say I had to have a surgical procedure to fix it. Shoot, you might even be able to get sympathy and even more sex! And finally, cis men have phallo too. The funny thing is they are just grateful to have a chance at functioning genitals whereas we are extremely nitpicky.
I am leaning toward meto with urethral lengthening, but it's too early to commit for me. I feel like I would never fully pass unless I could pee like a man. Yes, using an STP device is an option, but god, I just don't want to do that. It's too much complexity for something that (I feel) should be so simple.
Honestly, though, I would prefer to have a phalloplasty, but I'm a Type I diabetic and would not likely heal from a surgery that invasive nor do I think I could get a good doctor to perform one, even if I decided to take the risk. If anyone knows of a diabetic whose had a successful (still alive, has a dick) phalloplasty, I'd be grateful to know!
I spent over a year researching, talking to post-op guys, and talking to surgeons before making a final decision. You can read both of my bottom surgery adventure threads to see my thought process during that period.
Everyone I talked to led me to believe that phalloplasty was the best option for me. But being honest with myself, assessing my own needs, looking at the financial aspects of it, figuring out the pros/cons of having surgery now versus waiting, and considering some other factors obviously led me to the opposite conclusion.
Bottom surgery is goal dependent. You have to be honest with yourself about what exactly you are looking for as an end result that will make you happy, with the understanding that there is a high degree of risk involved and that it may take a while to get to that final end point. All I wanted from surgery was an aesthetically male looking package, no vagina, and to pee out of my penis (ideally standing, but that wasn't a deal breaker). Ultimately I decided to have meta done based on those desires, with the added caveat that I was completely open to going back for phallo in the future if my needs changed or I was unsatisfied by my results.
For me, an added benefit of meta is that you have that room to be wrong. There is never a situation where a meta patient can't go back for phalloplasty at a later date if they aren't satisfied with their outcome, didn't make the right decision in the first place, or if their goals changed over time. But if you are unable (due to age, health, life circumstances, etc.) or unwilling to say that, I would cool your heels and really dig into what is going to make you happy in the long run. I consider myself to be lucky to be in a situation where I can afford to be incorrect about my decision, as someone who is young, healthy, and has a large disposable income. Not everyone has that luxury, so that's another thing you need to be honest with yourself about.
All that said: phallo has come a long way in a relatively short amount of time. There are new innovations that are popping up all the time. Complication rates are decreasing as more surgeons do these procedures and figure out what works best. I have yet to meet someone who is completely post op (complication free, not planning any additional procedures) who is unhappy with their decision to have phalloplasty. I know many meta guys who go on to have phallo for a variety of reasons, and I know many who are completely satisfied with what they ended up with. Almost everyone waffles back and forth about which procedure is right for them.
Personally, I'm happy with what I've got. It works great, looks great, I'm complication free, and I'm able to stand and pee. I currently don't see myself going back for phallo, but I feel much more comfortable with the idea of it now that I'm post-op. I don't think I would have been mentally ready for a phallo recovery at the time I had surgery, but I think I could do it now having gone through meta. If that makes sense.
I had thought about both phallo and meta. For me the main concern with phallo was the huge scarring on either the arm or thigh. I felt like people are becoming more aware of trans surgeries and feared someone might see that scar and automatically think oh that guy is trans. I knew I would never want to go out in a t shirt again if I had forearm phallo, but with meta I just felt like I'd still feel incomplete in a way.
For me it was a matter of priorities. I looked into MLD phallo and the main negative I read was that the sensation wasn't as good as other phallo types. For me, I know I wouldn't be satisfied with meta and could not deal with RFF or ALT scarring, and that was more important than having 100% sensation to me. Ended up opting for the MLD, had first stage up to now and do not regret it in the slightest. Even after only 1 stage my family doctor back home was impressed with the result. Totally feels like my own too and not just a tube of skin. It really is just comparing the pros and cons of each and getting the one that you feel will give you what you want out of surgery. For me anyways, anything was better than what I had before so even if the phallo doesn't come out perfect, it is still an improvement.
Quote from: FTMax on July 24, 2017, 10:10:39 AM
I spent over a year researching, talking to post-op guys, and talking to surgeons before making a final decision. You can read both of my bottom surgery adventure threads to see my thought process during that period.
Everyone I talked to led me to believe that phalloplasty was the best option for me. But being honest with myself, assessing my own needs, looking at the financial aspects of it, figuring out the pros/cons of having surgery now versus waiting, and considering some other factors obviously led me to the opposite conclusion.
Bottom surgery is goal dependent. You have to be honest with yourself about what exactly you are looking for as an end result that will make you happy, with the understanding that there is a high degree of risk involved and that it may take a while to get to that final end point. All I wanted from surgery was an aesthetically male looking package, no vagina, and to pee out of my penis (ideally standing, but that wasn't a deal breaker). Ultimately I decided to have meta done based on those desires, with the added caveat that I was completely open to going back for phallo in the future if my needs changed or I was unsatisfied by my results.
For me, an added benefit of meta is that you have that room to be wrong. There is never a situation where a meta patient can't go back for phalloplasty at a later date if they aren't satisfied with their outcome, didn't make the right decision in the first place, or if their goals changed over time. But if you are unable (due to age, health, life circumstances, etc.) or unwilling to say that, I would cool your heels and really dig into what is going to make you happy in the long run. I consider myself to be lucky to be in a situation where I can afford to be incorrect about my decision, as someone who is young, healthy, and has a large disposable income. Not everyone has that luxury, so that's another thing you need to be honest with yourself about.
All that said: phallo has come a long way in a relatively short amount of time. There are new innovations that are popping up all the time. Complication rates are decreasing as more surgeons do these procedures and figure out what works best. I have yet to meet someone who is completely post op (complication free, not planning any additional procedures) who is unhappy with their decision to have phalloplasty. I know many meta guys who go on to have phallo for a variety of reasons, and I know many who are completely satisfied with what they ended up with. Almost everyone waffles back and forth about which procedure is right for them.
Personally, I'm happy with what I've got. It works great, looks great, I'm complication free, and I'm able to stand and pee. I currently don't see myself going back for phallo, but I feel much more comfortable with the idea of it now that I'm post-op. I don't think I would have been mentally ready for a phallo recovery at the time I had surgery, but I think I could do it now having gone through meta. If that makes sense.
Well hi guys--SaerJoe back again 3.5 years post-op from top surgery with Dr Peter Raphael of Plano, Texas and 3 years on T. It seems this site has lost my original profile and while this name has no significance to me, I've opted to retain it should I be able to find my old posts!
I want to thank FTMax for his comments here. After reading "Hung Jury" (anyone else read it?) and having spent over 3 years now wearing adhesive-based prostheses (T2 Prosthetics Berlin, Germany), I'm considering more permanent "tackle." FTMax hits the major points right on the head as far as a man needing to be completely goal oriented in this process. I also am thinking along the same lines from what I've learned that meta can be an end in itself, yet not necessarily, giving us options to go further if we wish (and the budget holds out). We can always have the option to go back for phallo as techniques continue to improve. It's nice to hear from someone who's gone through this same series of thought processes and articulates so well.
Goals for me? Standing to pee would be amazing, although it's not a requirement. For me, a HEALTHY, sensate and sexually functioning member would be most important. I've known my wife for 36 years; we've been together for 19 (married in NYS for 5) and, well, she's an unabashed "straight" woman I met in college at our tender age of 17. Now 54--well--we still have it in for each other, and I'd surely like to keep us both happy in that department, and I'm sure we'll be fine either way. Given this, she is totally respectful and happy with whatever I choose is best for me. I'm a lucky guy.
Are any guys on this forum familiar with Dr Raphael and his Centurion process? I was very pleased with him with the top surgery, and have done some reading on his Centurion process, but was also considering a doc I'd read about from Serbia (Belgrade) that is now performing these surgeries in NYC. Thoughts, comments welcome. SJA
Quote from: SaerJoe on August 14, 2017, 09:12:26 AM
Quote from: FTMax on July 24, 2017, 10:10:39 AM
I spent over a year researching, talking to post-op guys, and talking to surgeons before making a final decision. You can read both of my bottom surgery adventure threads to see my thought process during that period.
Everyone I talked to led me to believe that phalloplasty was the best option for me. But being honest with myself, assessing my own needs, looking at the financial aspects of it, figuring out the pros/cons of having surgery now versus waiting, and considering some other factors obviously led me to the opposite conclusion.
Bottom surgery is goal dependent. You have to be honest with yourself about what exactly you are looking for as an end result that will make you happy, with the understanding that there is a high degree of risk involved and that it may take a while to get to that final end point. All I wanted from surgery was an aesthetically male looking package, no vagina, and to pee out of my penis (ideally standing, but that wasn't a deal breaker). Ultimately I decided to have meta done based on those desires, with the added caveat that I was completely open to going back for phallo in the future if my needs changed or I was unsatisfied by my results.
For me, an added benefit of meta is that you have that room to be wrong. There is never a situation where a meta patient can't go back for phalloplasty at a later date if they aren't satisfied with their outcome, didn't make the right decision in the first place, or if their goals changed over time. But if you are unable (due to age, health, life circumstances, etc.) or unwilling to say that, I would cool your heels and really dig into what is going to make you happy in the long run. I consider myself to be lucky to be in a situation where I can afford to be incorrect about my decision, as someone who is young, healthy, and has a large disposable income. Not everyone has that luxury, so that's another thing you need to be honest with yourself about.
All that said: phallo has come a long way in a relatively short amount of time. There are new innovations that are popping up all the time. Complication rates are decreasing as more surgeons do these procedures and figure out what works best. I have yet to meet someone who is completely post op (complication free, not planning any additional procedures) who is unhappy with their decision to have phalloplasty. I know many meta guys who go on to have phallo for a variety of reasons, and I know many who are completely satisfied with what they ended up with. Almost everyone waffles back and forth about which procedure is right for them.
Personally, I'm happy with what I've got. It works great, looks great, I'm complication free, and I'm able to stand and pee. I currently don't see myself going back for phallo, but I feel much more comfortable with the idea of it now that I'm post-op. I don't think I would have been mentally ready for a phallo recovery at the time I had surgery, but I think I could do it now having gone through meta. If that makes sense.
Well hi guys--SaerJoe back again 3.5 years post-op from top surgery with Dr Peter Raphael of Plano, Texas and 3 years on T. It seems this site has lost my original profile and while this name has no significance to me, I've opted to retain it should I be able to find my old posts!
I want to thank FTMax for his comments here. After reading "Hung Jury" (anyone else read it?) and having spent over 3 years now wearing adhesive-based prostheses (T2 Prosthetics Berlin, Germany), I'm considering more permanent "tackle." FTMax hits the major points right on the head as far as a man needing to be completely goal oriented in this process. I also am thinking along the same lines from what I've learned that meta can be an end in itself, yet not necessarily, giving us options to go further if we wish (and the budget holds out). We can always have the option to go back for phallo as techniques continue to improve. It's nice to hear from someone who's gone through this same series of thought processes and articulates so well.
Goals for me? Standing to pee would be amazing, although it's not a requirement. For me, a HEALTHY, sensate and sexually functioning member would be most important. I've known my wife for 36 years; we've been together for 19 (married in NYS for 5) and, well, she's an unabashed "straight" woman I met in college at our tender age of 17. Now 54--well--we still have it in for each other, and I'd surely like to keep us both happy in that department, and I'm sure we'll be fine either way. Given this, she is totally respectful and happy with whatever I choose is best for me. I'm a lucky guy.
Are any guys on this forum familiar with Dr Raphael and his Centurion process? I was very pleased with him with the top surgery, and have done some reading on his Centurion process, but was also considering a doc I'd read about from Serbia (Belgrade) that is now performing these surgeries in NYC. Thoughts, comments welcome. SJA
I've spoken to 2 guys who had centurions with Dr. Raphael and both are happy with what they ended up with.
Dr. Miro (who did my surgery) only stops in to Mt. Sinai in NYC to teach. He is not performing surgeries there. If you like his results and are looking for something similar stateside, you could go to Dr. Ting at Mt. Sinai who he trained.
Quote from: SaerJoe on August 14, 2017, 09:12:26 AM
Well hi guys--SaerJoe back again 3.5 years post-op from top surgery with Dr Peter Raphael of Plano, Texas and 3 years on T. It seems this site has lost my original profile and while this name has no significance to me, I've opted to retain it should I be able to find my old posts!
I want to thank FTMax for his comments here. After reading "Hung Jury" (anyone else read it?) and having spent over 3 years now wearing adhesive-based prostheses (T2 Prosthetics Berlin, Germany), I'm considering more permanent "tackle." FTMax hits the major points right on the head as far as a man needing to be completely goal oriented in this process. I also am thinking along the same lines from what I've learned that meta can be an end in itself, yet not necessarily, giving us options to go further if we wish (and the budget holds out). We can always have the option to go back for phallo as techniques continue to improve. It's nice to hear from someone who's gone through this same series of thought processes and articulates so well.
Goals for me? Standing to pee would be amazing, although it's not a requirement. For me, a HEALTHY, sensate and sexually functioning member would be most important. I've known my wife for 36 years; we've been together for 19 (married in NYS for 5) and, well, she's an unabashed "straight" woman I met in college at our tender age of 17. Now 54--well--we still have it in for each other, and I'd surely like to keep us both happy in that department, and I'm sure we'll be fine either way. Given this, she is totally respectful and happy with whatever I choose is best for me. I'm a lucky guy.
Are any guys on this forum familiar with Dr Raphael and his Centurion process? I was very pleased with him with the top surgery, and have done some reading on his Centurion process, but was also considering a doc I'd read about from Serbia (Belgrade) that is now performing these surgeries in NYC. Thoughts, comments welcome. SJA
Hi SaerJoe,
Welcome back. Thanks for sharing and bringing up some good questions.
I took a look around and found posts that quote you but your posts and your account seems to be gone. That would seem like it is deliberate. Not sure. So while there are quotes of your posts, it would be a long laborsome task to grab those and try to recreate a sort of history.
A few things have changed, since you left. One of them is posting the following to newly posting members:
A Cautionary Note:This is a public forum so please [remember when posting that
The Internet Never Forgets, and the various web crawlers and archival sites out may retain information that you post.
We cannot ensure that any information you share on the site will be protected from public view and/or copying or reproduction. This warning is also listed in the Terms of Service listed below.
If you give out personal information on Susan's you are responsible for any consequence.
I also want to share some links with you. They include helpful information and the rules that govern the site. It is important for your enjoyment of the site to take a moment to go through them
Things that you should read
Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) | Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html) | Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.) |
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html) | News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html) | Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866) |
Once again, welcome back to Susan's. Look around, ask questions and join in.
With warmth,
Jacqui
thanks a million, Jacqueline. I understand the drill--and make no presumption of privacy. Again---thank you, and most of all for running a very tight ship!
SJA
I've spoken to 2 guys who had centurions with Dr. Raphael and both are happy with what they ended up with.
Dr. Miro (who did my surgery) only stops in to Mt. Sinai in NYC to teach. He is not performing surgeries there. If you like his results and are looking for something similar stateside, you could go to Dr. Ting at Mt. Sinai who he trained.
[/quote]
Thanks so much FTMax. I've got good friends, neighbors in fact, that are traveling to that area, and I wouldn't be averse to going to Belgrade for this gentleman, if you feel his skilled hands are worth the travel. Thoughts?
Quote from: SaerJoe on August 14, 2017, 04:18:15 PM
Quote from: FTMax on August 14, 2017, 01:11:29 PM
I've spoken to 2 guys who had centurions with Dr. Raphael and both are happy with what they ended up with.
Dr. Miro (who did my surgery) only stops in to Mt. Sinai in NYC to teach. He is not performing surgeries there. If you like his results and are looking for something similar stateside, you could go to Dr. Ting at Mt. Sinai who he trained.
Thanks so much FTMax. I've got good friends, neighbors in fact, that are traveling to that area, and I wouldn't be averse to going to Belgrade for this gentleman, if you feel his skilled hands are worth the travel. Thoughts?
I went to Belgrade partially because it was my least expensive option and partially because Miro is the most experienced surgeon I was considering. If I had to make the decision again, I would go back to him again. I will probably be headed back sometime in the next six months for a few small revisions, and if I ever decide to go back for phallo in the future, I would go back to him for that as well. I've never received bad care here in the US, but the care I received in Serbia was light years better. It's turned me into a huge proponet for medical tourism.
I have insurance, but it's a high deductible policy that doesn't include travel benefits. So I would've spent $10k for surgery here plus whatever flights and hotel expenses I had for the 2 trips I would've needed to make to get the same procedures done by an American surgeon. I would've had to spend another $10k if for some reason I couldn't get both stages done in the same premium period. I was able to go to Belgrade and get everything I wanted in a single stage for under $15k. My revisions will be free. My only expense will be getting myself back to Belgrade and potentially apartment rent if I decide to stick around for a few extra days.
So I guess it really depends what kind of money you're willing to spend and whether or not you have insurance here?
Quote from: FTMax on August 14, 2017, 05:29:08 PM
Thanks so much FTMax. I've got good friends, neighbors in fact, that are traveling to that area, and I wouldn't be averse to going to Belgrade for this gentleman, if you feel his skilled hands are worth the travel. Thoughts?
I went to Belgrade partially because it was my least expensive option and partially because Miro is the most experienced surgeon I was considering. If I had to make the decision again, I would go back to him again. I will probably be headed back sometime in the next six months for a few small revisions, and if I ever decide to go back for phallo in the future, I would go back to him for that as well. I've never received bad care here in the US, but the care I received in Serbia was light years better. It's turned me into a huge proponet for medical tourism.
I have insurance, but it's a high deductible policy that doesn't include travel benefits. So I would've spent $10k for surgery here plus whatever flights and hotel expenses I had for the 2 trips I would've needed to make to get the same procedures done by an American surgeon. I would've had to spend another $10k if for some reason I couldn't get both stages done in the same premium period. I was able to go to Belgrade and get everything I wanted in a single stage for under $15k. My revisions will be free. My only expense will be getting myself back to Belgrade and potentially apartment rent if I decide to stick around for a few extra days.
So I guess it really depends what kind of money you're willing to spend and whether or not you have insurance here?
Those are some great points, FTMax. I do have insurance, and am just looking in to what is covered. I know our deductible is $5K; not sure about travel expenses, and of course, that coverage is likely domestic, right? My main concern is experience in the surgeon. Experience is the most critical factor in a surgeon. I've put an email to his center in Belgrade; we'll see what happens. I suppose I could also look in to Dr Ting as you suggested, as NYC is just a 4-5hr drive from home.
I know this is likely a dumb question, as I'm not quite certain yet through all my reading. Is urethral extension required with phallo? Just a crazy thought in my head, as that it seems among the greatest concerns seem to be issues regarding infection and complications of that part of the procedure. I'd forgo that aspect for better results otherwise (implants; sensation). I also understand (one article I'd seen) that nearly 79% of phallo guys experience incontinence or inconsistencies in voiding. These are q's I'll surely talk over w a doc, but was just curious.
Quote from: CursedFireDean on July 06, 2017, 06:19:14 PM
Since I haven't had bottom surgery yet, I don't know how much my opinion helps, but I've been thinking a lot about bottom.
I personally won't get meto just because my lower growth would be extremely unsatisfactory for me and I'd still find myself packing. It wouldn't do much to alleviate the dysphoria I experience. I don't even know if I'd have the length to pee standing up and if I can't even do that, there's no point for me.
As for phallo, I think about it a lot. One of my main concerns is that I don't want extremely noticeable scarring. I wouldn't be comfortable with forearm procedure because of how often my forearms are visible. I know I scar well, but the length of time it takes for them to heal to that point is something I don't think I could handle. I also have forearm tattoos that I wouldn't want to part with. As for other types of phallo, I know my weight is wrong for some and unrealistic for me to get that small. I still need to do more research on others. Ultimately however, I know I'm young and that medical technology is advancing, particularly with things like stem cell research. I know the possibility of having my own dick from my own cells is a very long way off (I've seen an estimated 5-10 years for cismen and 15-20 for transmen but honestly who knows) but I have time to wait. I also have only seen and heard of phallo resulting in a circumsized appearance and if I could manage an uncut one day, that would be amazing. I'm young enough that I'm willing to wait- I'd rather wait and see where medical advancement goes than get it early and miss out on medical advancement later in my life. If I have to wait for the ability to get an erection naturally, I'd be willing to wait. I also don't feel comfortable with the replacement of the erection devices every 10 or so years, I want one surgery and to be done. Or I suppose in the case of phallo, the immediate series of surgeries and that's it.
Sent from my Pixel using Tapatalk
I've thought about waiting for the medicine to be available quite a bit myself, but I gotta tell you dude I decided I don't want to waste the best years of my life late 20s - 30s waiting to feel complete <----(by that I mean my ideal body not anybody else's, course transition means many things to many people). As of right now I'm firmly planning on getting phallo and whenever it becomes possible to get my own bio penis made form my cells and whatnot I'm certain I'd just opt for replacing my phallo with it.
Quote from: SaerJoe on August 14, 2017, 06:25:09 PM
Quote from: FTMax on August 14, 2017, 05:29:08 PM
Thanks so much FTMax. I've got good friends, neighbors in fact, that are traveling to that area, and I wouldn't be averse to going to Belgrade for this gentleman, if you feel his skilled hands are worth the travel. Thoughts?
I went to Belgrade partially because it was my least expensive option and partially because Miro is the most experienced surgeon I was considering. If I had to make the decision again, I would go back to him again. I will probably be headed back sometime in the next six months for a few small revisions, and if I ever decide to go back for phallo in the future, I would go back to him for that as well. I've never received bad care here in the US, but the care I received in Serbia was light years better. It's turned me into a huge proponet for medical tourism.
I have insurance, but it's a high deductible policy that doesn't include travel benefits. So I would've spent $10k for surgery here plus whatever flights and hotel expenses I had for the 2 trips I would've needed to make to get the same procedures done by an American surgeon. I would've had to spend another $10k if for some reason I couldn't get both stages done in the same premium period. I was able to go to Belgrade and get everything I wanted in a single stage for under $15k. My revisions will be free. My only expense will be getting myself back to Belgrade and potentially apartment rent if I decide to stick around for a few extra days.
So I guess it really depends what kind of money you're willing to spend and whether or not you have insurance here?
Those are some great points, FTMax. I do have insurance, and am just looking in to what is covered. I know our deductible is $5K; not sure about travel expenses, and of course, that coverage is likely domestic, right? My main concern is experience in the surgeon. Experience is the most critical factor in a surgeon. I've put an email to his center in Belgrade; we'll see what happens. I suppose I could also look in to Dr Ting as you suggested, as NYC is just a 4-5hr drive from home.
I know this is likely a dumb question, as I'm not quite certain yet through all my reading. Is urethral extension required with phallo? Just a crazy thought in my head, as that it seems among the greatest concerns seem to be issues regarding infection and complications of that part of the procedure. I'd forgo that aspect for better results otherwise (implants; sensation). I also understand (one article I'd seen) that nearly 79% of phallo guys experience incontinence or inconsistencies in voiding. These are q's I'll surely talk over w a doc, but was just curious.
Coverage is likely to be domestic. The only caveat some policies have is for emergency coverage in a foreign country. I have heard that there are policies out there that cover international surgeries, but it is likely not something you already have.
Travel benefits seem to be hit or miss. The general rule of thumb if it is covered is that they will reimburse you for expenses if you have to travel to see a surgeon due to a deficiency in local options, which is generally the case for bottom surgery. This usually includes airfare/ground transportation and a daily rate for accommodations. Might also include food expenses.
Urethral lengthening is never required. If you don't opt for it, they just leave your urethra where it is. If you had a scrotoplasty, it would end up under your balls.
I would say the 79% statistic is false or outdated. A lot of people have short term issues with their lengthened urethras, but these typically heal within 6 months on their own, or involve really small secondary procedures to correct. I can count on one hand the number of guys I've met who have incontinence issues.
I generally tell people to go into surgery expecting to have some kind of complication. If you're having urethral lengthening, don't expect that it's going to be perfect right out of the gate. My complications meant having a suprapubic catheter in for 10 weeks total, but now everything works great.
Quote from: FTMax on August 15, 2017, 02:07:24 PM
Those are some great points, FTMax. I do have insurance, and am just looking in to what is covered. I know our deductible is $5K; not sure about travel expenses, and of course, that coverage is likely domestic, right? My main concern is experience in the surgeon. Experience is the most critical factor in a surgeon. I've put an email to his center in Belgrade; we'll see what happens. I suppose I could also look in to Dr Ting as you suggested, as NYC is just a 4-5hr drive from home.
I know this is likely a dumb question, as I'm not quite certain yet through all my reading. Is urethral extension required with phallo? Just a crazy thought in my head, as that it seems among the greatest concerns seem to be issues regarding infection and complications of that part of the procedure. I'd forgo that aspect for better results otherwise (implants; sensation). I also understand (one article I'd seen) that nearly 79% of phallo guys experience incontinence or inconsistencies in voiding. These are q's I'll surely talk over w a doc, but was just curious.
Coverage is likely to be domestic. The only caveat some policies have is for emergency coverage in a foreign country. I have heard that there are policies out there that cover international surgeries, but it is likely not something you already have.
Travel benefits seem to be hit or miss. The general rule of thumb if it is covered is that they will reimburse you for expenses if you have to travel to see a surgeon due to a deficiency in local options, which is generally the case for bottom surgery. This usually includes airfare/ground transportation and a daily rate for accommodations. Might also include food expenses.
Urethral lengthening is never required. If you don't opt for it, they just leave your urethra where it is. If you had a scrotoplasty, it would end up under your balls.
I would say the 79% statistic is false or outdated. A lot of people have short term issues with their lengthened urethras, but these typically heal within 6 months on their own, or involve really small secondary procedures to correct. I can count on one hand the number of guys I've met who have incontinence issues.
I generally tell people to go into surgery expecting to have some kind of complication. If you're having urethral lengthening, don't expect that it's going to be perfect right out of the gate. My complications meant having a suprapubic catheter in for 10 weeks total, but now everything works great.
Thanks for the response, FTMax. I'm using the Tapatalk app now, so forgive me if this reply shows up in some strange place!
I appreciate the feedback regarding incontinence--that's good news. Honestly (sorry if it's too personal), I don't have any designs on an uncomfortably large member, as in wearing the T2 prosthetic for 3 years I've battled with how to minimize the size of it in the shorts. Normal to slightly on the smaller size -- would be just fine with me (us), and if that helps w urethral lengthening, then maybe I'd consider it. That's good information about going in with the assumption--that you'll have complications or at minimum, some sort of set back. All the more reasons to get healthy and stay that way--after.
My quandary, now in my early 50's--is long term. The whole medicalization reality is something I grapple with. I generally don't care for surgery and all the issues that anesthetics etc bring as time goes on. I did see my endo/internist today, and notified her that I am considering the surgery. Onward with the research. After reaching out by email yesterday, I've not yet heard back from Dr Miro, nor Mt Sinai as yet. Dr Raphael has responded. Do you know if he also does phallo?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: SaerJoe on August 15, 2017, 04:28:49 PM
Quote from: FTMax on August 15, 2017, 02:07:24 PM
Those are some great points, FTMax. I do have insurance, and am just looking in to what is covered. I know our deductible is $5K; not sure about travel expenses, and of course, that coverage is likely domestic, right? My main concern is experience in the surgeon. Experience is the most critical factor in a surgeon. I've put an email to his center in Belgrade; we'll see what happens. I suppose I could also look in to Dr Ting as you suggested, as NYC is just a 4-5hr drive from home.
I know this is likely a dumb question, as I'm not quite certain yet through all my reading. Is urethral extension required with phallo? Just a crazy thought in my head, as that it seems among the greatest concerns seem to be issues regarding infection and complications of that part of the procedure. I'd forgo that aspect for better results otherwise (implants; sensation). I also understand (one article I'd seen) that nearly 79% of phallo guys experience incontinence or inconsistencies in voiding. These are q's I'll surely talk over w a doc, but was just curious.
Coverage is likely to be domestic. The only caveat some policies have is for emergency coverage in a foreign country. I have heard that there are policies out there that cover international surgeries, but it is likely not something you already have.
Travel benefits seem to be hit or miss. The general rule of thumb if it is covered is that they will reimburse you for expenses if you have to travel to see a surgeon due to a deficiency in local options, which is generally the case for bottom surgery. This usually includes airfare/ground transportation and a daily rate for accommodations. Might also include food expenses.
Urethral lengthening is never required. If you don't opt for it, they just leave your urethra where it is. If you had a scrotoplasty, it would end up under your balls.
I would say the 79% statistic is false or outdated. A lot of people have short term issues with their lengthened urethras, but these typically heal within 6 months on their own, or involve really small secondary procedures to correct. I can count on one hand the number of guys I've met who have incontinence issues.
I generally tell people to go into surgery expecting to have some kind of complication. If you're having urethral lengthening, don't expect that it's going to be perfect right out of the gate. My complications meant having a suprapubic catheter in for 10 weeks total, but now everything works great.
Thanks for the response, FTMax. I'm using the Tapatalk app now, so forgive me if this reply shows up in some strange place!
I appreciate the feedback regarding incontinence--that's good news. Honestly (sorry if it's too personal), I don't have any designs on an uncomfortably large member, as in wearing the T2 prosthetic for 3 years I've battled with how to minimize the size of it in the shorts. Normal to slightly on the smaller size -- would be just fine with me (us), and if that helps w urethral lengthening, then maybe I'd consider it. That's good information about going in with the assumption--that you'll have complications or at minimum, some sort of set back. All the more reasons to get healthy and stay that way--after.
My quandary, now in my early 50's--is long term. The whole medicalization reality is something I grapple with. I generally don't care for surgery and all the issues that anesthetics etc bring as time goes on. I did see my endo/internist today, and notified her that I am considering the surgery. Onward with the research. After reaching out by email yesterday, I've not yet heard back from Dr Miro, nor Mt Sinai as yet. Dr Raphael has responded. Do you know if he also does phallo?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Size, as far as I have ever been told, has no bearing on UL success or complication rate. You would think the complication rate would be greater with phallo because you have that much more lengthened urethra to deal with, but all the surgeons I've spoken with cite almost identical urethral complication rates in their patients who have meta vs. those that have phallo. Size is more of a concern for blood flow and necrosis.
Miro will probably take a few days to respond. If you haven't heard anything back in a week, send another email. He's a busy guy so your message might've gotten buried. I've never talked to anyone at Mt. Sinai so I'm not sure how responsive they are to emails.
Last I checked, Dr. Raphael was only doing meta. If you wanted to stay local to that region, Dr. Crane is operating in Austin now.
Quote from: FTMax on August 15, 2017, 06:26:34 PM
Thanks for the response, FTMax. I'm using the Tapatalk app now, so forgive me if this reply shows up in some strange place!
I appreciate the feedback regarding incontinence--that's good news. Honestly (sorry if it's too personal), I don't have any designs on an uncomfortably large member, as in wearing the T2 prosthetic for 3 years I've battled with how to minimize the size of it in the shorts. Normal to slightly on the smaller size -- would be just fine with me (us), and if that helps w urethral lengthening, then maybe I'd consider it. That's good information about going in with the assumption--that you'll have complications or at minimum, some sort of set back. All the more reasons to get healthy and stay that way--after.
My quandary, now in my early 50's--is long term. The whole medicalization reality is something I grapple with. I generally don't care for surgery and all the issues that anesthetics etc bring as time goes on. I did see my endo/internist today, and notified her that I am considering the surgery. Onward with the research. After reaching out by email yesterday, I've not yet heard back from Dr Miro, nor Mt Sinai as yet. Dr Raphael has responded. Do you know if he also does phallo?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Size, as far as I have ever been told, has no bearing on UL success or complication rate. You would think the complication rate would be greater with phallo because you have that much more lengthened urethra to deal with, but all the surgeons I've spoken with cite almost identical urethral complication rates in their patients who have meta vs. those that have phallo. Size is more of a concern for blood flow and necrosis.
Miro will probably take a few days to respond. If you haven't heard anything back in a week, send another email. He's a busy guy so your message might've gotten buried. I've never talked to anyone at Mt. Sinai so I'm not sure how responsive they are to emails.
Last I checked, Dr. Raphael was only doing meta. If you wanted to stay local to that region, Dr. Crane is operating in Austin now.
I'd read that Dr Crane was now also in Austin. I understand he has done some training with Dr Miro, so he surely would be next on the list. Do you have any more feedback on Dr Ting in NYC? Of the two, if you know, who is more experienced at MLD phallo, and who has done more procedures, Ting or Crane?
I really appreciate your comments here, and will continue the search.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Crane has undoubtedly done more than Ting at this point, and would also be (I'd imagine) more experienced with MLD. It's probably the least common donor site that he uses, but I would be willing to bet he is the most experienced surgeon with that particular donor site in the US.
Quote from: FTMax on August 15, 2017, 06:50:58 PM
Crane has undoubtedly done more than Ting at this point, and would also be (I'd imagine) more experienced with MLD. It's probably the least common donor site that he uses, but I would be willing to bet he is the most experienced surgeon with that particular donor site in the US.
I understand that the sensation is often better with forearm and thigh donor sites, but that infection are necrosis chances are elevated over MLD. In my case, forearm is out (too small) and leg--second choice. Another detail I'd have to work out, whether thigh or MLD. Sure wish they could put some cells in a dish and 6 months later have tissue they could use ; )
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: SaerJoe on August 15, 2017, 06:54:40 PM
Quote from: FTMax on August 15, 2017, 06:50:58 PM
Crane has undoubtedly done more than Ting at this point, and would also be (I'd imagine) more experienced with MLD. It's probably the least common donor site that he uses, but I would be willing to bet he is the most experienced surgeon with that particular donor site in the US.
I understand that the sensation is often better with forearm and thigh donor sites, but that infection are necrosis chances are elevated over MLD. In my case, forearm is out (too small) and leg--second choice. Another detail I'd have to work out, whether thigh or MLD. Sure wish they could put some cells in a dish and 6 months later have tissue they could use ; )
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yeah, it really depends. If I go back for phallo, MLD is the only donor site I would consider personally. I don't want to spend a year doing hair removal, and sensation is not a big deal to me.
Quote from: FTMax on August 15, 2017, 06:57:39 PM
I understand that the sensation is often better with forearm and thigh donor sites, but that infection are necrosis chances are elevated over MLD. In my case, forearm is out (too small) and leg--second choice. Another detail I'd have to work out, whether thigh or MLD. Sure wish they could put some cells in a dish and 6 months later have tissue they could use ; )
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yeah, it really depends. If I go back for phallo, MLD is the only donor site I would consider personally. I don't want to spend a year doing hair removal, and sensation is not a big deal to me.
Exactly--to me the HEALTH of the boy is of the utmost importance. And sensation? It has to be better than the silicone stand-in that I live with now. I'd do my best to get in the best shape ever going in--and give it heck. You'd think for an "old guy" my age, it wouldn't matter, but....of course it does. At any age.
What city are you in? (Sorry if I'm breaking any rules of protocol here). Thanks for the conversation. Very helpful. With my practitioners (internists) --- they are all very helpful, but I feel more like a study animal than just about anything else. Truthfully, we'll all get better information from each other on these forums anyway!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: SaerJoe on August 15, 2017, 07:08:47 PM
Quote from: FTMax on August 15, 2017, 06:57:39 PM
I understand that the sensation is often better with forearm and thigh donor sites, but that infection are necrosis chances are elevated over MLD. In my case, forearm is out (too small) and leg--second choice. Another detail I'd have to work out, whether thigh or MLD. Sure wish they could put some cells in a dish and 6 months later have tissue they could use ; )
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Yeah, it really depends. If I go back for phallo, MLD is the only donor site I would consider personally. I don't want to spend a year doing hair removal, and sensation is not a big deal to me.
Exactly--to me the HEALTH of the boy is of the utmost importance. And sensation? It has to be better than the silicone stand-in that I live with now. I'd do my best to get in the best shape ever going in--and give it heck. You'd think for an "old guy" my age, it wouldn't matter, but....of course it does. At any age.
What city are you in? (Sorry if I'm breaking any rules of protocol here). Thanks for the conversation. Very helpful. With my practitioners (internists) --- they are all very helpful, but I feel more like a study animal than just about anything else. Truthfully, we'll all get better information from each other on these forums anyway!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'm in northern Virginia/Washington DC.
Quote from: FTMax on August 16, 2017, 09:43:50 AM
Exactly--to me the HEALTH of the boy is of the utmost importance. And sensation? It has to be better than the silicone stand-in that I live with now. I'd do my best to get in the best shape ever going in--and give it heck. You'd think for an "old guy" my age, it wouldn't matter, but....of course it does. At any age.
What city are you in? (Sorry if I'm breaking any rules of protocol here). Thanks for the conversation. Very helpful. With my practitioners (internists) --- they are all very helpful, but I feel more like a study animal than just about anything else. Truthfully, we'll all get better information from each other on these forums anyway!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'm in northern Virginia/Washington DC.
Awesome. I'm back up in the Finger Lakes Region of New York State, after 35 years in Dallas-Fort Worth.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: FTMax on August 16, 2017, 09:43:50 AM
Exactly--to me the HEALTH of the boy is of the utmost importance. And sensation? It has to be better than the silicone stand-in that I live with now. I'd do my best to get in the best shape ever going in--and give it heck. You'd think for an "old guy" my age, it wouldn't matter, but....of course it does. At any age.
What city are you in? (Sorry if I'm breaking any rules of protocol here). Thanks for the conversation. Very helpful. With my practitioners (internists) --- they are all very helpful, but I feel more like a study animal than just about anything else. Truthfully, we'll all get better information from each other on these forums anyway!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'm in northern Virginia/Washington DC.
I've another question for you, if you might have info on, FTMax. This is with regard to meta + phallo; and the ultimate placement of the enlarged neo-penis (meta) after phalloplasty/glansplasty surgery. I read on one site that the neo-penis (enlarged clitoris) can be left outside (below), or within-- the base of the constructed phallus. Have you heard of any discussion of this issue? Alternatively, I'm a bit confused about recalling that in some instances, the clitoris can also be located where the glans of the phallus is located. Thoughts (clarifications) on this from what your forum indicates? (sorry I'm paranoid of privacy on FB--and the danger of hitting a wrong button posting information to my family/friends)
Quote from: SaerJoe on August 17, 2017, 02:40:54 PM
Quote from: FTMax on August 16, 2017, 09:43:50 AM
Exactly--to me the HEALTH of the boy is of the utmost importance. And sensation? It has to be better than the silicone stand-in that I live with now. I'd do my best to get in the best shape ever going in--and give it heck. You'd think for an "old guy" my age, it wouldn't matter, but....of course it does. At any age.
What city are you in? (Sorry if I'm breaking any rules of protocol here). Thanks for the conversation. Very helpful. With my practitioners (internists) --- they are all very helpful, but I feel more like a study animal than just about anything else. Truthfully, we'll all get better information from each other on these forums anyway!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I'm in northern Virginia/Washington DC.
I've another question for you, if you might have info on, FTMax. This is with regard to meta + phallo; and the ultimate placement of the enlarged neo-penis (meta) after phalloplasty/glansplasty surgery. I read on one site that the neo-penis (enlarged clitoris) can be left outside (below), or within-- the base of the constructed phallus. Have you heard of any discussion of this issue? Alternatively, I'm a bit confused about recalling that in some instances, the clitoris can also be located where the glans of the phallus is located. Thoughts (clarifications) on this from what your forum indicates? (sorry I'm paranoid of privacy on FB--and the danger of hitting a wrong button posting information to my family/friends)
The clitoris can be placed in the base of the phalloplasty, or it can be left slightly visible underneath the phalloplasty in between the phallo and the scrotum.
I've never heard of it being anywhere near the glans in a phalloplasty.
Quote from: FTMax on August 17, 2017, 02:51:26 PM
I've another question for you, if you might have info on, FTMax. This is with regard to meta + phallo; and the ultimate placement of the enlarged neo-penis (meta) after phalloplasty/glansplasty surgery. I read on one site that the neo-penis (enlarged clitoris) can be left outside (below), or within-- the base of the constructed phallus. Have you heard of any discussion of this issue? Alternatively, I'm a bit confused about recalling that in some instances, the clitoris can also be located where the glans of the phallus is located. Thoughts (clarifications) on this from what your forum indicates? (sorry I'm paranoid of privacy on FB--and the danger of hitting a wrong button posting information to my family/friends)
The clitoris can be placed in the base of the phalloplasty, or it can be left slightly visible underneath the phalloplasty in between the phallo and the scrotum.
I've never heard of it being anywhere near the glans in a phalloplasty.
I'm wondering if there's any way of feeling pleasure if the neo-penis is buried inside of the phallo? I mean, its the neo-penis that has the most sensitve nerve endings so you can "properly get off" during sex, but if its buried, how can you organsm?
Anyone here have this proceedure done that can answer this?
Ryuichi
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Microsurgery connects all kinds of nerves down there. I've never met a guy who is post-op who can't get off.
Quote from: FTMax on August 17, 2017, 04:11:56 PM
Microsurgery connects all kinds of nerves down there. I've never met a guy who is post-op who can't get off.
That's my impression also--and where I was essentially going in our conversation. I would think whether buried or not, the motion/sensation would allow for orgasm whether buried--or not. I will surely ask Dr Miro in our consult. He did reply yesterday!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: SaerJoe on August 17, 2017, 04:13:57 PM
Quote from: FTMax on August 17, 2017, 04:11:56 PM
Microsurgery connects all kinds of nerves down there. I've never met a guy who is post-op who can't get off.
That's my impression also--and where I was essentially going in our conversation. I would think whether buried or not, the motion/sensation would allow for orgasm whether buried--or not. I will surely ask Dr Miro in our consult. He did reply yesterday!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Tell him I said hi! I need to email and see if I can head back for revisions sometime soon.
I am happy to do so! Too bad he's not working any 2 for 1 specials right now LOL?! Seriously--I've yet to get in to it with my insurance company (I'm so very lucky I got out of Texas and am in NY where coverage is good, although not sure about overseas, we'll see. I'll plead the case through my "navigator"). Thanks for the great insights here. Randomdude also has some helpful comments. All I know is that after 3 years, the hardware is talking to me and looking for attention. In my wildest dreams I wouldn't have thought I'd consider this, but I am heartened by the improvements in technique afforded by science and technology (micro surgery). Onward.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: FTMax on August 17, 2017, 04:11:56 PM
Microsurgery connects all kinds of nerves down there. I've never met a guy who is post-op who can't get off.
That'a great to know. Its an option, but first, I need my top surgery! [emoji6]
Ryuichi
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
Quote from: FTMax on August 17, 2017, 04:15:22 PM
That's my impression also--and where I was essentially going in our conversation. I would think whether buried or not, the motion/sensation would allow for orgasm whether buried--or not. I will surely ask Dr Miro in our consult. He did reply yesterday!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Tell him I said hi! I need to email and see if I can head back for revisions sometime soon.
Hey FTMax-- update on the doc and insurance front. Right now we're awaiting word back from my team on talking with the insurance company about coverage overseas. I'm still hopeful that we can get coverage for the surgery over there.
I suppose my backup would be Dr Ting or Crane, although I'd really prefer Doc Miro.
Your further thoughts on these three physicians? Any others--by all means, please chime in on physicians, staffs etc. Regarding meta and phallo. Thanks all-
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I would personally be very surprised if you can get coverage for an overseas surgery. I would not hold out for that - BUT, I have always been told by everyone I've spoken to about bottom surgery that if it is within your means to pay out of pocket to go to the surgeon of your choice and you are making a very informed choice when it comes to surgeons, that you should go to your first choice. Not sure if that is the situation you are in or not. And I'm sure financially it depends whether you're going for meta or phallo. But that was the advice I received, and I followed it and am happy. So just that little caveat before the rest.
Dr. Crane is the most experienced surgeon in the US currently. I would not hesitate to go to him for a meta if he was in network for me. I would want to have a lengthy, in-person consult with him before I committed to phallo. He currently has 5 open malpractice lawsuits against him, all from phallo patients, one of whom is a friend of mine. I have another friend who consulted with him, asked about those, and was satisfied enough with his answers to schedule surgery. I would personally want to do the same thing. And since I would only be interested in MLD and I would want to drop down to as few stages as possible, we'd need to hammer out the details on that before I would commit. I do think I'd be able to come to a decent level of comfort with the idea of using him as my surgeon. His staff I have heard can be difficult to work with until you are a patient, and then post-op you are well taken care of.
Dr. Ting I was previously more positive about, but I have heard inklings of a lawsuit against Mt. Sinai for misrepresenting their trans surgery program and providing poor or no aftercare. Aftercare is a huge part of managing/reducing/eliminating complications from surgery, and as that is forming the basis of the lawsuit (which multiple patients are a part of), I would rank him last as an option currently until we know more. I know the organization that will be filing it is looking for additional patients who had similar experiences, and it hasn't been filed yet so I haven't been able to read any of it. So, I'd reserve judgment on Ting for now and wait to see how it plays out.
I think regardless of how that goes though, for me, Crane's experience puts him out ahead. He's done 200+ phallos at this point and I would imagine even more metas though I don't have a firm number on that.
Thanks so much, FTMax. Great information, and generally my impression so far, especially with regard to offices and their operation prior to a person becoming a patient. That's typical, although difficult to deal with.
Of course I'm full of a thousand questions, but quite honestly--maybe I can work through this here.
Dr Miro did quote a specific price for meta, hysto, scrotoplasty + testicular implants, and I wonder how it compares to US? (13K EU = approx 15.4 USD). I suppose the question is, how comparable is that to the states? And further--does that include vaginectomy, oophorectomy (is it even recommended?)
Another: is there a difference, going in to meta, as to whether you will or won't decide to do phallo? Is the approach from one or the other different? I wouldn't think so.
Lastly; is Centurion meta easily compatible to further phallo later on? Any word on complication rate in that process? If I hadn't had my top surgery done with Dr Raphael and known how amazing his staff is--I wouldn't consider him, but since I did....I have to ask!
I am leaning toward Dr Miro for meta, and like the following year would do phallo, but as you said--there's no harm in not if you should decide that the meta results are an end point in themselves.
Sorry to pepper you with questions.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Miro's price would include everything - so meta, hysto + oophorectomy, vaginectomy, UL, scrotoplasty, and testicular implants. If he didn't list those separately, the implants themselves are 960 Euro.
In the US if you were paying with insurance, the price would be based on whatever your deductible and/or out of pocket maximum is. I was told when I spoke with my insurance that for these surgeries, I would be expected to pay my out of pocket maximum because of how expensive they are. So for me that was $10k but I know my plan is very expensive. So yours may be less.
Paying out of pocket in the US, you are looking at around $20k-30k plus the cost of a hysto. I believe Crane will do the hysto at the same time, but he does testicular implants separately at a second stage.
They don't do anything differently if you know you're coming back for phallo.
Centurion is just a modified meta, so no different than a regular one in terms of going from meta to phallo. The complication rate for that you would need to get from Dr. Raphael, as it's surgeon specific and he's the only one doing these.
If you're planning on phallo, I personally would not have a meta done and would just go straight ahead with phallo. If you're undecided, I would really spend more time thinking about what exactly you want to get out of it. I think it is a waste of resources to have meta knowing you want phallo.
Quote from: FTMax on August 24, 2017, 02:26:40 PM
Miro's price would include everything - so meta, hysto + oophorectomy, vaginectomy, UL, scrotoplasty, and testicular implants. If he didn't list those separately, the implants themselves are 960 Euro.
In the US if you were paying with insurance, the price would be based on whatever your deductible and/or out of pocket maximum is. I was told when I spoke with my insurance that for these surgeries, I would be expected to pay my out of pocket maximum because of how expensive they are. So for me that was $10k but I know my plan is very expensive. So yours may be less.
Paying out of pocket in the US, you are looking at around $20k-30k plus the cost of a hysto. I believe Crane will do the hysto at the same time, but he does testicular implants separately at a second stage.
They don't do anything differently if you know you're coming back for phallo.
Centurion is just a modified meta, so no different than a regular one in terms of going from meta to phallo. The complication rate for that you would need to get from Dr. Raphael, as it's surgeon specific and he's the only one doing these.
If you're planning on phallo, I personally would not have a meta done and would just go straight ahead with phallo. If you're undecided, I would really spend more time thinking about what exactly you want to get out of it. I think it is a waste of resources to have meta knowing you want phallo.
Thank for the discussion. I suppose my understanding is that in essence, the two stage process entailed 1. Meta and 2. Phallo, but you've clarified that here a bit. Regardless, if you say "phallo" -- it's still a 2 and perhaps 3 stage surgery, correct?
After spending much of the day on transbucket and other sites and getting more information about results and different physicians, I could see where a meta would not work for my end goals, so likely, phallo including glansplasty (I am in disbelief, with all the plastic surgery talent out there--that surgeons cannot make a glans look more realistic).
It will be a few days before I run this course with my insurance company; they've requested contact (verbal, then written) from my practitioners here domestically requesting this surgeon, so we'll see where that goes. I will not wait long, however. I've had 30 years as an employer---dealing with insurance companies, so I am well aware of how they operate and what I'm working with (against). My top surgery (and masculinization lipo) I paid for out of pocket in 2013, so no illusions here. I do feel, though, that Dr Miro would be my guy. It does make us nervous (my wife and I) about the having the doctor in a foreign country should I have trouble here stateside. Who did you use for follow up here?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Meta by itself is a 1-2 stage process, possibly 3 if there are revisions needed. In the UK I want to say all of them are 3 stages by default.
Phallo is another 1-5 stages depending on surgeon, donor site, individual procedures, etc. Hysterectomies are always done separately from phallos unless you're having it done in Europe.
I didn't use anyone for follow up here yet. Anything that I've needed to have looked at, I've sent pictures and a description of the issue to Dr. Miro and his assistant Dr. Marta. They get back to me in less than a day usually. The only issue I've had that needed solving was a UTI that I thought was a stricture. They told me to go get a urinalysis done and get on antibiotics, so I just went to CVS for all that. Since any surgical revisions are free with Dr. Miro (aside from the cost of travel), it is less expensive for me to return to him for anything beyond a simple healing issue (like a UTI or other infection).
I did meet Dr. Zhao and Dr. Weinberg from NYU while I was in Serbia, and have met Dr. Bluebond-Langner (also from NYU). If I were having significant issues and didn't feel confident that I could travel to Europe and make it through the trip, I would've called to see how soon they could get me in. Dr. Zhao told me he'd be happy to follow up with me if I was having issues, and he also had a colleague in my city that he said he would recommend for routine urology care if needed, though I don't think that doctor had trans experience.
That clarifies quite a bit, thank you. So to be totally clear, meta is generally 1-potentially 3 stages, while phallo is 1 to 5 ADDITIONAL stages, for potentially a total of 8? I know that revisions etc can be numerous, but hopefully, the major surgeries can be held to 2-3, I would surely hope. Again, just to clarify.
I saw quite a bit about the NYU program and Dr Bluebond-Langner, and likely would go the similar route if she or other qualified physician at NYU could be there for me if any major issues arose. We're about the same distance from NYC (we're just up in the Finger Lakes Region, NY), and that would surely bring comfort knowing there are experienced people in this regard within a day's drive.
Is there anyway that we could take this conversation off the forum, or would you prefer it here for educational purposes? ; )
Most people do not get both done. For most people it is either phallo or meta, but generally not both. Some guys who get meta go back for phallo, but I would say that is not the norm currently (it was in the past due to changes in insurance coverage - it was easier for people to pay out of pocket for meta in the past before the ACA made coverage more common for more expensive procedures like phallo, so they went back for what they really wanted after getting insurance coverage).
Staging is going to vary by surgeon. Some like to do things in very particular ways. If you're specifically looking at Dr. Miro, his metas are all a single stage unless you need a revision. And his phallos are 3 stages assuming you are interested in urethral lengthening and an erectile implant. If not, you may be able to knock it down to 2. Having had the majority of the "extra" work (scrotoplasty, vaginectomy, primary UL, testicular implants) done during meta, if I were going to go back for phallo I'd want to talk to him about doing it all in a single stage or staying in country longer and having it done in 2 back to back stages. So in total, I would be looking at 1-3 stages if I were to get both primary procedures done.
You can PM me on here or on Facebook if you want (FB link is the F icon under my avatar).
Well that fully clears it up! Insurance. Isn't that always what enters in to medical care and drives direction and decision making in course of treatments?
Thanks so much for the full background. I've put in a request for consult with Dr Miro, and will also do the same with Dr Crane (TX) and perhaps even Dr Bluebond-Langner. Am still leaning heavily in the direction of Miro, so we'll see where it goes.
Thanks again for your help. It means the world. I may reach out to you on FB Messenger as this Tapatalk thing is kind of crazy and works on my iPad but not so good on my phone just yet. Hard to know when I have messages! (Just an old guy with his electronics ; )
Again, many thanks.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
I decided to go for phallo, after all. Some of the reactions helped a lot (specifically the remark that a transwoman who got a phallo said it felt natural), and also I want to live my life NOW, like CMD042414 said.
I am worried about scarring as well and don´t want forearm flap surgery, as my wrists are already very slim and it would leave me with pretty much no forearms, plus there is the recognition issue (it´s mostly transmen who have those scars, as far as I know).
There was a topic talking about abdominal with a nerve hookup from the forearm which seems like a great option. I guess I´ll have to discuss it with different surgeons when the time´s right.
Also if you are still wondering or debating this in your head, feel free to post your thought process ;)
Quote from: randomdude5 on August 01, 2017, 01:09:02 AM
I had thought about both phallo and meta. For me the main concern with phallo was the huge scarring on either the arm or thigh. I felt like people are becoming more aware of trans surgeries and feared someone might see that scar and automatically think oh that guy is trans. I knew I would never want to go out in a t shirt again if I had forearm phallo, but with meta I just felt like I'd still feel incomplete in a way.
For me it was a matter of priorities. I looked into MLD phallo and the main negative I read was that the sensation wasn't as good as other phallo types. For me, I know I wouldn't be satisfied with meta and could not deal with RFF or ALT scarring, and that was more important than having 100% sensation to me. Ended up opting for the MLD, had first stage up to now and do not regret it in the slightest. Even after only 1 stage my family doctor back home was impressed with the result. Totally feels like my own too and not just a tube of skin. It really is just comparing the pros and cons of each and getting the one that you feel will give you what you want out of surgery. For me anyways, anything was better than what I had before so even if the phallo doesn't come out perfect, it is still an improvement.
Hi Randomdude5--
Who did your surgery? I'm sorry if I've missed the information in the string. So much helpful info in this string and --- I just yesterday landed my first consult appt with Doc BL @ NYU, Dec 4. Excited to say the least!
My feeling is similar to yours regarding MLD; My forearms are too small to deal with ALT, and RFF would be a secondary consideration but I don't like the idea of the hair thing. From some reading on several sites, I also understand that MLD has a slightly lower risk of morbidity and complications as the skin in that location on the body is just a bit different (Miro's site). We concur in the discovery that MLD is a bit less sensate, but like you--I don't see that as a problem. Healthy is key for me. Honestly, I'm also not dead set that urethral lengthening as a requirement in this regard (healthy). I understand that many of the complications related to the surgery requiring more revisions are urethral issues (fistulas). Goals: 1. An end to adhesive prosthesis/packing and 2. sexual function and decent aesthetics--are my two priorities. (After 3 yrs using US men's rooms, it's always the stalls that fill first anyway, and locker rooms are fairly behind me as a former jock--now 54).
Does anyone on the string know more about alternate donor sites, like stomach, "pedicle flap," etc?? I'd be interested to hear more on that from experienced guys.
So I'm excited guys--to be moving forward on this. I am also waiting for a follow up response for consult from Dr Miroslav Djordjevic (Doc Miro) in Belgrade. He emailed me while on vacation a couple weeks ago, and I'm sure he's back and swamped and ---hopefully I'll be in their pipeline soon. Like FTMax, who went to Doc Miro, the key analysis is 1. Surgical skill (how many steps, also) 2. Cost. Truth is, insurance in US can be tricky and let's face it, when the mother hospital accepts it, the surgeons wind up trapped in their billing/coding systems and it gets more costly, so if your deductibles are high--travel can be an option I will be investigating.
I'm heartened in reading a couple of these posts, and I promise--I'm doing my best to figure out this Tapatalk thing and the browser based forum functions.
Onward--gentlemen!!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
Quote from: SaerJoe on September 09, 2017, 07:43:13 AM
Onward--gentlemen!!
;D
There is a site I have been getting most of my information from, it´s http://www.phallo.net/procedures/. If anybody knows any other site with great info, it´d be good to include in this thread I think. You basically have a choice between the operations named on the site.
- Pedicled groin flap (KIM). You would still have erotic sensation provided by your junk, buried at the bottom.
- Abdominal. Same as above, you´d have erotic sensation provided by your current junk. Urethroplasty is not usually done with this type of surgery. With bird wing abdominal surgery, urethroplasty is an option.
- Thigh (ALT). Depends on the patient. The site says that patients with more subcutaneous fat in that area might have a more difficult time due to excess tissue. The site does not mention sensation in this article. There are various variations possible within this type of surgery.
- Forearm (RFF). As I understand this is the surgery most FTM go for, since it provides better erotic sensation through the nerves from the forearm skin. I´ve also seen a post around here where they said that they can take a nerve from your forearm (instead of a flap) and then combine that with an abdominal flap, but I´m not 100% sure on that (maybe someone can give more info?).
- Dorsal (MLD). Uses part of a back muscle, including nerves. As I understand it´s possible to achieve a bit of a natural erection because the muscle still has the ability to contract. According to the site, sensation is lesser than RFF but better than abdominal and groin flap surgery. It also mentions low donor site morbidity.
- Lower leg. Harvests a part of the fibula. The skin flap can be re-innervated. However the site says that erotic sensation is not the expected result, meaning that sensation would still come from your natal junk. The actual bone in your penis can make it look like you have a semi-erection.
I took the liberty of summing that up. I don´t think the information on that website is complete, for each surgery there are probably many more things involved. Perhaps some of you can provide additional information :)
I took the liberty of summing that up. I don´t think the information on that website is complete, for each surgery there are probably many more things involved. Perhaps some of you can provide additional information :)
[/quote]
Great info. Another general site I've referred to for years that seems to get updated w relative frequency is https://www.susans.org/links/link/Help_&_How-to//For_Trans_Men//hudsons-ftm-guide-200 Thanks again for the info!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I had my top surgery this june and now on T from 2 mnth.Looking forward to finally have phallo.so i can be called a male in all way.
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk
Quote from: SaerJoe on September 10, 2017, 07:53:49 PM
I took the liberty of summing that up. I don´t think the information on that website is complete, for each surgery there are probably many more things involved. Perhaps some of you can provide additional information :)
Great info. Another general site I've referred to for years that seems to get updated w relative frequency is https://www.susans.org/links/link/Help_&_How-to//For_Trans_Men//hudsons-ftm-guide-200 Thanks again for the info!
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Gone through the link provided thanku..[emoji4]
Sent from my ONEPLUS A3003 using Tapatalk