I frequently hear complaints from transsexuals about the familiar phrase "a woman trapped in a man's body" (or vice versa for FTM). Many transsexuals reject having this phrase applied to them and resent it being used. I'd be interested in hearing transsexual people's reasons for objecting to it.
Quote from: Hypatia on November 28, 2007, 10:31:08 AM
I frequently hear complaints from transsexuals about the familiar phrase "a woman trapped in a man's body" (or vice versa for FTM). Many transsexuals reject having this phrase applied to them and resent it being used. I'd be interested in hearing transsexual people's reasons for objecting to it.
It's a cute metaphor, but I never use it with people. Too cliche, too presumptious and apologetic for me, like saying
"it's OK I transitioned because I'm really literally a woman inside!" I try to steer clear of the whole
"I was always a woman!" rationalization thing.
Forty-three years of pondering it all, and I STILL can't explain GID. So I'd rather just tell 'em what I DID (
"Hey, I'm Kate now!"), and not what I supposedly AM (
"I'm a transsexual with GID, and a woman inside, and...").
~Kate~
I do not use it but do not really resent it. I have heard the phrase used most often on talk shows and that may be the source of my aversion.
I think it conjures up a weird image.
I spent over 40 years of trying to hide, avoid, or simply just trying to convince myself that my GID was just a figment of my imagination. I have never felt like I was a woman trapped in a man's body I am simply me; born with the spirit of a woman and a major birth defect (a man's body).
Yes, it is a trite phrase but a very good one indeed! unless you kitty cats want to start using the "Benjamin's Syndrome" term. "I have Benjamin's syndrome, meaning that I have an intersex condition. My brain is female and my body is male" Well, it sounds the same to me but whatever...
tink :icon_chick:
its fairly good for explaining to newbies... with some explanation around it... but then, i never liked saying it was a male body... birth defect is my fave explanation...raised wrong? yep... it doesnt work much now, as i have a female body :P
R :police:
I never liked the phrase, sounds kind of like a cliche, also seems to be what the old school gatekeepers wanted to hear, otherwise you weren't really ts...
y2g
by oldschool, you mean current british gatekeepers? :P
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on November 28, 2007, 09:14:11 PM
by oldschool, you mean current british gatekeepers? :P
R :police:
LOL (well, not really laughing, but you know what I mean), We have our share of them in USA too >:(
y2g
it's a valid phrase.
http://www.world-science.net/exclusives/050511_transfrm.htm
phrase is valid, steriotypes not :P
R :police:
i thought we were talking about 'the phrase' not stereotypes. terrific thread nero. hopefully ppl will not twist it all around ::)
its a thread on susans... when HASNT something been horribly twisted offtopic?
R :police:
Quote from: Hypatia on November 28, 2007, 10:31:08 AM
I frequently hear complaints from transsexuals about the familiar phrase "a woman trapped in a man's body" (or vice versa for FTM). Many transsexuals reject having this phrase applied to them and resent it being used. I'd be interested in hearing transsexual people's reasons for objecting to it.
It just feels to cliche. It also makes one sound like they hated their body in my opinion. I never hated my body, but it never felt right. I don't think of myself a woman trapped as a man, but as someone who is simply bringing out their hidden self.
Eh...I guess I feel more like i'm removing a mask more then being hidden inside a wrapper.
i really did hate it... it was the wrong body... i never felt comfortable as male. and even now, infact since most of me is so female now. seeing my crotch can cause me to break down and cry... which is patiularly unhelpful in the shower... i feel like such a freak and a weirdo :(
R :police:
I like the phrase a woman or a man in the "wrong" body. it sounds better :laugh:
It is like an Archie Bunker saying "Some of my best friends are black." Or they used to compliment black people by saying he or she is a "credit to their race." It shows an incredible lack of understanding about what the transsexual experience is all about and trivializes it.
I'm a cat stuck in a human body -- get me out!! Mewwww! The exits are to small to get out, but I figured out how to work the arm pulleys so I can type a save me message! Mewwwww Meow!
Quote from: y2gender on November 28, 2007, 09:18:23 PM
Quote from: Rachael on November 28, 2007, 09:14:11 PM
by oldschool, you mean current british gatekeepers? :P
R :police:
LOL (well, not really laughing, but you know what I mean), We have our share of them in USA too >:(
y2g
They are exceptionally rare in the US as supposed to very common in the UK. The Clarke Clinic in Toronto is really bad as well. Not sure which is worse that place or Charing Cross.
Back on topic, I never really liked the phrase because it over simplified an incredibly complex human condition.
I don't think that it ever applied effectively to my situation. I suppose that for some it is an adequate situation. I honestly never really felt that way. Ever since I learned the difference between girls and boys, I wanted to be a girl and not a boy. Every one of us thinks differently and ses themselves in sightly different ways.
To me, the phrase is one of these "newspeek" catchalls (so popular around election times) to attempt to explain something very complex to the masses.
Cindi
I think it doesn't really explains things.
I just wanted to live life as a women. I didn't need to swap
body to do that, just do a custom job on a couple of
bits and pieces.
Trapped in a man's life is a more appropriate description that trapped in a man's body. The body image helped in the entrapment, but there were also social pressures and pressures in my own mind.
he trapped part was not just the body.
Quote from: Amy T. on November 29, 2007, 02:28:20 AM
Quote from: y2gender on November 28, 2007, 09:18:23 PM
Quote from: Rachael on November 28, 2007, 09:14:11 PM
by oldschool, you mean current british gatekeepers? :P
R :police:
LOL (well, not really laughing, but you know what I mean), We have our share of them in USA too >:(
y2g
They are exceptionally rare in the US as supposed to very common in the UK. The Clarke Clinic in Toronto is really bad as well. Not sure which is worse that place or Charing Cross.
Back on topic, I never really liked the phrase because it over simplified an incredibly complex human condition.
It can't possibly be worse than Charing Cross GIC......I spent 7 years in that nightmare sinario!
As for being 'A woman trapped in a man's body'......I don't think I ever felt like that. When I first left school people always used to point out the differences what they saw in my body and the guys I worked with. I was never hairy, I had soft skin, I had small feet, and I was constantly called effeminate and seen as a girlyboy.
Again, the phrase trivializes the experience and it also supports a genital-centric view of physical sex. Although I grew large, I always thought there were a lot of things (and I notice this in other trans women) that were feminine about my body, mostly an unusually feminine face in childhood (before testosterone did its awful damage) light facial hair and no Eve's Apple.
eve's apple as a phrase doesnt exist ;)
even women have an addams apple, its just minute... i dont have a visible one either... although i find sometimes we need those 'trivialising' phrases to get this accross to the public... sometiems we need to dumb things down to help folk understand... not everyones a gender buff :)
R :police:
Quote from: Rachael on November 29, 2007, 10:52:33 AM
eve's apple as a phrase doesnt exist ;)
even women have an addams apple, its just minute... i dont have a visible one either... although i find sometimes we need those 'trivialising' phrases to get this accross to the public... sometiems we need to dumb things down to help folk understand... not everyones a gender buff :)
R :police:
I think what Melissa was trying to enphasise was the fact that her adams apple wasn't ever visable. I don't have a visable adams apple and I don't have a broken voice either. So in my case the exposure to testoterone in my younger days was fairly limited.
doesnt change the fact that 'eves apple' isnt a word... its addams apple well, thats its social name, the actual bump is found in both males and females, in females, its generally not visible.... then, its not visible in all males is it?
R :police:
Its mostly the orientation of the cartilage that makes it stand out it men, its not that much bigger. In my case, the bump is slight in a normal position (nobody notices unless they scrutinize my neck sideways), its only if I look way up that somebody would notice.
Many women have slight adam's apples. Sandra Bullocks one is about the same
size as me. Its visible on some pictures (depends on angle and lighting).
thing is, most people dont look for one on women or notice one...
R :police:
"A woman trapped in a man's body" is idendification. It's a method of allowing one to identify oneself as a target gender while excusing biological facts.
Some people use it as a method to NOT face reality. Others use it because they would rather view themselves as being dealt a low blow by nature.
In the end, I think most of the people who walk towards this trend are focused more on a victimized problem solving technique, instead of focusing on what could be done and not using such negative phrases such as, "trapped," or "misplaced."
But hey, noone's getting hurt!
Quote from: Keira on November 30, 2007, 12:21:42 PM
Its mostly the orientation of the cartilage that makes it stand out it men, its not that much bigger. In my case, the bump is slight in a normal position (nobody notices unless they scrutinize my neck sideways), its only if I look way up that somebody would notice.
Many women have slight adam's apples. Sandra Bullocks one is about the same
size as me. Its visible on some pictures (depends on angle and lighting).
Funny you should say that about Sandra Bullock Keira.........I had an arguement once with another transsexual about Sandra Bullock........she claimed Sandra was a Transsexual and I said what complete rubbish!
The Clark institute has never done me no wrong. Their job is strictly to confirm if you are transsexual then which side or the other are you on the GID scale are you. It comes in handy as a reference to approve the surgery. The transitioning we do is on our own volition, like getting a therapist and an endo to prescribe the hormones and such. There are two provinces whose health insurance still covers SRS and those are BC and Alberta.
Cindy
Berliegh said;
"I had an arguement once with another transsexual about Sandra Bullock........she claimed Sandra was a Transsexual and I said what complete rubbish!".
I have thought she was many times over myself. Then again, look at me, what the heck do I know about looking like a man.
As to the phrase "trapped". This is America and there are plenty of people more than willing to change that, so I never feel "trapped". Temporarily "parked, stalled", maybe but not trapped.
And I have no aversion whatsoever to having a wackadoo.
I have an aversion to being called her, then him in the same sentence by people. I just want to be unambiguous.
Chelle
"ROFL!" "hee, hee, he" Wacadoo wacadoo wacadoo now aint that just flim flamed flopidy doo da day with my dang dinga ling and my boomerang wont come back.
"Hee, hee," what a hoot " Tanks for the laugh, still wiping tears.
Cindy
Not sure if I was being funny, but if you are sincere, glad to give you a lift.
my point was that I prefer women and that "thing" comes in handy, although it does have a different meaning to me now, more of an implement of intimacy instead of a wand of power.
I was just tickled by your use of the word wackadoo. I get tickled about certain things at times, plus that was an old expression I haven't heard of in years, just like the others I had in my post.
I just get tickled by things easy. I don't know if that part of the hormonal changes or what.
Cindy
we all have different feelings... we had a trans girl from the national students union lgbt give a talk yesterday. she was brilliant, but she had the opinion that when perceived as female, she was happy. surgery wasn't needed. although, some of us cant stand the sight, or touch of that thing, its mere presence makes us feel like freaks, or the '->-bleeped-<-' sex creatures society makes us out as... im with the latter... but its hardly fixed.
i felt trapped, i still feel trapped, just more by the system that lets me halfway, then stalls me in freaktown...
R :police:
hi what are we saying here . are we male or female well i am happy being both why i dont know . yet i am more female in my head . i know i am post op now yet if i am not happy for being me . then i have a big thing to deal with. i dont . ...so... well thats for me any way . yes i am o so happy being a women .... now ...i am able to experss .my self in the ways that is just me .....am i trapped i dont have those male parts any more i like that yet that was a part of me so yes we had our family of 3 . so i would have missed out on that. ...... now..... i dont miss any of that side of things now .at 50 years of age i knew it was over & it was not hormones . i was being perpared to be a women i know some will not go along with that . o well thats me. thats what happened i can look back & see how things have been done for me . dont hate you body male or female . its so neat that we can be helped now .... i hope you see where
:angel:i am coming from ....noeleena..... :angel: