Please list all the female privileges that men do not have.
One example I notice is that it is societally okay for women not to work, stay at home mom.
Bring on the stereotypes and sexist comments... Sorry...
1. Paying on dates
2. Holding doors
3. Entering a place first
4. Driving when out as a couple
5. Carrying stuff (heavy objects.. "here let me help you.")
These are just a few I've noticed.
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Quote from: Wild Flower on July 24, 2017, 05:38:23 PM
Please list all the female privileges that men do not have.
One example I notice is that it is societally okay for women not to work, stay at home mom.
Women used to be able to, but nowadays with the economy the way it is, and salaries lower than the old days, they just can't. stay at home now. Psychology researchers postulate that this is the cause for the rising autism and ADHD rates in children. Parents who are barely in their children's lives as they have to work. Children who are raised by Tv.
As a transgender person, in identity politics, they won't immediately shut you down with the "Check your privilege" line against arguments that don't fit the politically correct narrative, which is ironically a form of privilege.
Quote from: Denise on July 24, 2017, 05:42:11 PM
Bring on the stereotypes and sexist comments... Sorry...
1. Paying on dates
2. Holding doors
3. Entering a place first
4. Driving when out as a couple
5. Carrying stuff (heavy objects.. "here let me help you.")
These are just a few I've noticed.
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I am avoiding that completely.
We are women too, but we also know male privilege
For male privilege,
Being consider knowledgeable before actually talking about it (more male oriented subjects though)
I find this who male privileged all a bit misleading
I wasn't a cis male ever...I guess being "socialised" with other males is about the best I can say. I learned how to fit in and what I had to do but "I was never part of it" and as I secretly fought my maleness all my life I wonder about this whole "male/female" privilege as it applies to Trans people.
I find it difficult to believe that we would experience it the same way as cis males/females...just my ramblings, I could be totally off my rocker.
Quote from: ElizabethK on July 24, 2017, 06:10:40 PM
I find this who male privileged all a bit misleading
I wasn't a cis male ever...I guess being "socialised" with other males is about the best I can say. I learned how to fit in and what I had to do but "I was never part of it" and as I secretly fought my maleness all my life I wonder about this whole "male/female" privilege as it applies to Trans people.
I find it difficult to believe that we would experience it the same way as cis males/females...just my ramblings, I could be totally off my rocker.
Your absolutely right, as transgender women when we were presenting as men it's actually worse because everything about life is wrong.
Quote from: Wild Flower on July 24, 2017, 05:57:02 PM
I am avoiding that completely.
We are women too, but we also know male privilege
For male privilege,
Being consider knowledgeable before actually talking about it (more male oriented subjects though)
Wild,
I too would LIKE to avoid the things I listed, but it's kinda funny, my new girl friends slap me when I don't accept those things. "If you want to join the women's league, you have to accept having doors held etc or you will out yourself before you know it."
If you enter a party or room last in a group it's a sure thing (probably?) you've just outed yourself.
Just an observation.
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what is this female privilege you speak of. I honestly think it's about the 10th time you create this topic. Anyway, these advantages may be real but they only happen on smaller, more domestic sphere and are dependent on context, unlike male privilege which is much systemical and part of society's makeup. It seems most who have commented missed the point that these advantages only exist because women are thought of as weaker, less autonomous than men and thus have to helped. So what's at the core of these advantages is not positive to women and ,furthermore, when a man is insulted for being "weak", it often comes at the expense of women. How many times do fathers and other men tell boys "not be such a girl" - cause, right, girls are weak and emotional. The WORST insult you can give to a man is telling him he's womanly. In Western countries it's gotten much better over but women still earn less than men for the same job, and in today's world there are STILL countries where women are forbidden to vote or simply choose who she's going to marry, where adultery is punished with death penalty (but only if the perpetrator is a woman) and I could go on, and on forever.
You see, there's small advantages to being a woman but they don't make up for all the advantages men have over women. Obviously, it's not all roses to men either, and while women are more likely to attempt suicide, men are far more likely to be successful in such attempts, for example. I don't know, Wild Flower. I am under the impression that you think female life is such a dream and a fantasy but I think that's because you have yet to truly live it to realize it IS NOT. If you're looking at woman life as this fairy tale where you'll have all the guys drooling over you and treating you as a princess and come to get you in their white horse, I am here to tell you, you WILL be disappointed. Sure, you may get guys but those may not be the ones you wish. So let's make a list of the challenges you will have to face as a woman, and don't think these challenges are lessened if you become attractive, some heighten even more.
*Being talked down to at jobs
*Having to know more than the men in the discussion to be taken seriously, if you know the same or less, you won't be heard
*Dealing with harassment on the street, workplace and via message online or not
*Judgement from other women, women are taught from a young age to be each other's worst enemies
*you'll get unsolicited comments about your appearance, whether you want it or not
*be ready to deal with awkward situations, where doctors and people who hold power over you telling how pretty you look and going as far as flirting with you
*Gossiping is a real thing and sooner or later you will be the one everyone's gossiping about
*Stalkers, followers may become a real thing
*Beauty culture is a thing and it will affect you in many ways you can't even fanthom right now
And as a young woman, this all has happened to me. I'm sure I could list many more but I'm probably forgetting a lot of disadvantages. And I'm still relatively privileged but have experienced all that. There are probably even more challenges as we age. But point is, I don't think this female privilege you fantasize so much about exists. Sure, maybe some people regard taking advantage of men as a privilege, but I don't think this way at all, and men who are like this are almost always creepers. so, please come with evidence this privilege exists besides chivalry (which regards women as weaker) and then we can further discuss it.
Women aren't socialized out of emotional expression. Likely responsible for the notably smaller suicide rate compared to men. Feminists act like inability to cry is a masculine performance and a part of not wanting to be feminine. No, it's embedded so deep into the subconscious as a result of male socialization that I can't cry even if I wanted to.
Also when I was in college, I was told that there are women only scholarships/funds for continuing education, I asked if they would help a transwoman, I was told no.
Quote from: JMJW on July 25, 2017, 05:36:01 AM
Feminists act like inability to cry is a masculine performance and a part of not wanting to be feminine. No, it's embedded so deep into the subconscious as a result of male socialization that I can't cry even if I wanted to.
I don't know if I agree with that. A lot of people myself included notice they cry easier on HRT, or harder in case of trans men. I still don't cry often but before it was almost an impossibilty. (except my childhood)
Of course there's variation some females don't cry much, some males cry easier etc but I'm saying in general.
I don't deny social factors, society expecting men not to cry might create pressure on some etc. But I think biology (hormones) play a bigger role. And then there are individual differences.
- No one is afraid of of you when you interact their kids or ask to pet their dog
- If you're taking a picture with your phone, no one assumes it's for pervy reasons
- No one gets scared if you're walking behind them down the street, even at night
Those are just a few I can remember.
I was debating about that with some of my friends and we didn't reach an conclusion but
-the butchier the woman is she more privileged or less privileged ?
i already noticed that men doesn't pay much attention on them , so they are kinda less bothered by sexism and more respect I guess ? But on the other hand I already saw stories of butchy ladies getting "corrective rapes " to "make them more ladylike". I dunno.
- women are not forced into going to war in many places
-women have total reproductive rights in some places
-women are less violent
-women can seduce men and even other women very easily and explore them.
-women are more protected by law from domestic violence , women are not shamed for seeking for help
-women live more , even trans and intersex women do.
-women can dress up with any clothing and still be viewed as objects.
-women have more freedom to express their emotions and to have more intimacy with people in many places.
-women are more flexible than men.
-women do better at multitasking
-women are killed less often and commit suicide less often.
-gay women are more respected. .. kinda of in some places when compared to gay men, in some places gay women are "pure"
-women are more disputed
-women have more benefits in sex related jobs and their bodies can give them easu money and fame
-women are treated with respect like they're superior in many cultures that objectify them
-women scape many chronic illnesses and suffer less from drugs, cigars and alcohol, same with trans and intersex ladies
-women often keep the guard of the kids and receive child support
Idk and what more, but there's terrible downsides, like I already mentioned being treated as sex object like 3 times.
Women have more freedom to express themselves emotionally, verbally, etc. It's expected and accepted. Men can't do that. This leads to being happier and more able to deal with life's hardships.
Women have the final say in romantic/sexual relationships most times. What I'm saying is, men are expected to do the chasing and get rejected and still keep trying, while a woman can probably get what she wants by opening her mouth. Most women I know who are in long term relationships "handle" (for lack of a better word) their men in a way that is super obvious the women are the ones in charge. They build their houses, families, careers, expectations, etc the way they want.
Also, being thought of as "emotional" and "sensitive" while might sound terrible for some, a lot of smart women use it to their advantage to also get what they want. Men are easily manipulated by this.
I'm speaking about cis women of course, can't really tell how all of this translates to trans women. So yes, while we do live in a male dominated world, it's not all "oh women have it so bad". Cis women learn from a young age the social disadvantages they have, but also learn all the power they can have, and they use the tools given to them to their advantage.
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This one is based solely on general western norms and sure to upset. However, when I discussed this with a panel of five world class Universities it was pretty much a perfect snap shot. The examples below are not my own they are instead from an interview a few years ago by an Australian media group:
1.I can socialise without the fear of being sexually manipulated and/or seduced. (girls only bars/security in my building, men will jump to my aid if I scream vs. other genders who might scream, separate areas on public transport between 9pm-7am to protect me if I want it)
2.I can enjoy the luxuries of staying at home and rely on my spouse for financial security without being frowned upon by society for doing so.
3.I can openly talk about my mental health and emotions without being negatively judged by society.
4.I am not expected to remain onboard a sinking ship in order to allow the opposite gender to reach safety first.
5.I am able to look after my children and simultaneously apply for financial compensation from my workplace without being negatively judged by society.
6.In case of divorce, I get greater custody over my children and a greater say in the situation, along with greater sympathy from the judiciary and greater freedom to choose my child's co-parent.
7.I will receive lighter prison sentences and better judicial treatment simply because of my gender.
8.Most domestic violence perpetrators of my gender do not get arrested in comparison to the counterparts of the opposite gender.
9.My gender does not commit suicide at a multiple rate in comparison to the opposite gender.
10.My gender does not comprise most workplace deaths by number and percentage.
11.I am less likely to be falsely accused of rape.
12.The majority of homeless people are not my gender.
13.I have a lower chance of being judged as a paedophile for no reason e.g. I can sit next to a child on public transport without being judged.
14.I enjoy programs that aim at promoting the hiring of my gender into the workplace.
15.I have "reproductive rights" and I get the final say on whether my child gets to live or die while he/she is still in the mother's womb.
16.It is completely illegal to forcefully circumcise or mutilate the sexual organs of children who are my gender.
17.The children of my gender who are sexually exploited or used as prostitutes are prioritised by authorities over those of the opposite gender.
18.People of my gender have a greater likelihood of entering university than those of the opposite gender.
19.The majority of homicide deaths, combat deaths and deaths by capital punishment as percentages does not constitute people of my gender.
20.My gender does not pay the majority of taxes.
Black women are less likely to be shot dead even after surrendering to police than black men.
I love having a door held open for me and being held by a man.. I feel so safe
Power over men.(yes I play helpless the girl), a bit of cleavage and a man will do anything for you.
female sex is way better... a full body orgasm is wonderful
wearing pretty outfits and being to wear dress in public without been judged..
womens clothing just feels better, especially silk underwear against my skin
the best thing.. feel a breeze against my freshly shaven leg when wearing a skirt.. its better with pantyhose
Thank you Sarah Leah, JMJW and Noleen for the positive answers. I really dislike the whole "oh what's so good about being a woman? All men are out to get us" victimized attitude. I understand those come from a real place but there's a lot of advantages as well. Both genders have things against them, it's just different for each side. My mind, for one, is made to face the female obstacles. I can't and don't want to deal with all that comes with being a "man". I am willing to deal with all that comes with being a woman.
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Although women earn less, i heard that they spend more on average
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You get to wear really cool clothes.
Most of the things you say can actually be evidence AGAINST so called female privilege. We'll go one by one...
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
1.I can socialise without the fear of being sexually manipulated and/or seduced. (girls only bars/security in my building, men will jump to my aid if I scream vs. other genders who might scream, separate areas on public transport between 9pm-7am to protect me if I want it)
So... let me see if I got this correctly, you think women are out there to get you? To sexually manipulate you? Oh, because men are just helpless when it comes to their desire for sex and can't possibly be manipulative themselves? And yes, there are bars for men. They are called gays bars. Just like only women bars are for lesbians. That simple.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
2.I can enjoy the luxuries of staying at home and rely on my spouse for financial security without being frowned upon by society for doing so.
NO! This is only true for RICH women. Poor women have to work their asses off or otherwise they will be stigmatized as lazy, "welfare queens". In fact, very often poor women often have to work hard only to come home and take care of the children, the house and satisfy her husband sexually who does not help in house leading whatsoever.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
3.I can openly talk about my mental health and emotions without being negatively judged by society.
No. All people who suffer from mental health issues are stigmatized and referred to as "crazy", "unstable", and I could go on and on. I have a friend who's bipolar and when we were in high school she told me and other friends of her condition. One started talking about it and soon she was labeled as crazy by most kids. And men do talk about their emotions, especially if it's hate, anger, disappointment. In toxic masculinity culture, men may be afraid to talk to other men about their feelings (especially if sadness) but they can definitely talk to the women in their lives. It's men who have to learn to listen and sympathize with each other, as women are allowed to talk about their feelings with each other.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
4.I am not expected to remain onboard a sinking ship in order to allow the opposite gender to reach safety first.
True...but does not apply everywhere anymore.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
5.I am able to look after my children and simultaneously apply for financial compensation from my workplace without being negatively judged by society.
This is not true for all countries. On most there's actually no legal requirement.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
6.In case of divorce, I get greater custody over my children and a greater say in the situation, along with greater sympathy from the judiciary and greater freedom to choose my child's co-parent.
No, not more sympathy. Actually women are more likely to ask for their children's custody, so are far more likely to get it. Also, most countries have laws that grant joint custody, but generally less men want to benefit from it.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
7.I will receive lighter prison sentences and better judicial treatment simply because of my gender.
Men are FAR more likely to commit violent crime and thus are punished accordingly. This is not an exemple of discrimination.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
8.Most domestic violence perpetrators of my gender do not get arrested in comparison to the counterparts of the opposite gender.
Men are more likely to be the one doing the beating. Therefore, more men are arrested for domestic violence than women.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
9.My gender does not commit suicide at a multiple rate in comparison to the opposite gender.
No, women are more likely to attempt suicide with less lethal and immediate means (drug overdose) while men are more likely to use immediate and lethal means (gun shooting), thus more men die from those attemps. Most completed suicides are from men, however women attempting suicide far outnumber men.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
10.My gender does not comprise most workplace deaths by number and percentage.
True. Because men are more likely to choose high risk jobs, nobody is pointing a gun at them to take these jobs.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
11.I am less likely to be falsely accused of rape.
Basic math. Women are far less likely to commit rape than men. Thus, more men are likely to be falsely accused but the rate of false accusation is still low and similar to other crimes. Not to mention most rape still is underreported, as prosecution and conviction of the crime is VERY hard and women are dragged through the mud for having the guts to report it.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
12.The majority of homeless people are not my gender.
No... but many women who are homeless turn to selling their bodies for survival. Men are less likely to be abused when homeless and thus more visible. Not to mention women living on the streets face much more higher risk for sex crime than men. Furthermore, many homeless are children.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
13.I have a lower chance of being judged as a paedophile for no reason e.g. I can sit next to a child on public transport without being judged.
Men are more likely to pedophiles. It's true that men are viewed more suspiciously than women when it comes to children and it shoudn't always be so. But a man actively choosing to sit next to children not known to him when he has the option not to should be viewed suspiciously (ie. grooming).
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
14.I enjoy programs that aim at promoting the hiring of my gender into the workplace.
Uh, yes. Because workplace discrimination was and continues to be a thing in many places. It wouldn't exist if it wasn't the case.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
15.I have "reproductive rights" and I get the final say on whether my child gets to live or die while he/she is still in the mother's womb.
True... But who is going to carry the child? Who's going to have all the side effects from hormone secretion and the growth of the baby? Who's going to hurt? Who will likely take care of the child when born?
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
16.It is completely illegal to forcefully circumcise or mutilate the sexual organs of children who are my gender.
Yes... But circumcision is mostly a religious norm for Jews. And it's not the penis that is cut, it's skin. As for female genital mutilation, it's one of the main areas of deriving sexual pleasure for girls and women, the clitoris, that is cut.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
17.The children of my gender who are sexually exploited or used as prostitutes are prioritised by authorities over those of the opposite gender.
Any evidence to back this up? I have never found any studies claiming so.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
18.People of my gender have a greater likelihood of entering university than those of the opposite gender.
This is actually a very recente phenomenon. And speaks of women's ambitions, hard work and desire to be seen as equal in the workplace. Regardless, men are still being paid more even if the women are overqualified.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
19.The majority of homicide deaths, combat deaths and deaths by capital punishment as percentages does not constitute people of my gender.
Combat deaths? Really? How about bombs in Syria falling in Aleppo. You think they magically don't kill women? War is war and it kills, destroys everyone and everything. Women are not immune to the consequences of war, and if not killed, are far more likely to suffer crime against will and enslavement. Yes, men are far more likely to be murdered because they are also more likely to get into violent fights. And finally men are more likely to commit violent crime and thus face death penalty more often.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
20.My gender does not pay the majority of taxes.
People who earn less, pay less taxes. Women generally earn less than men. Don't know what's your point.
sorry for the gramatical mistakes
Conculsion: there are sure disadvantages to being a man, it's not all roses but this doesn't account for what women have to face, and it certainly doesn't deny that women still have it harder in many ways. Most of this list actually is an exemple of evidence against female privilege existing. Also, I am appalled that some people here believe that women are out there to get and manipulate men. Is this a support site for mtf transsexuals who identify as female?
I struggle with the answers to this as there so many non privilege things that weigh on women (as Aurorasky made a great list and many good points) . I'm also a feminist and believe in 100% equality and many things flagged as feminine privilege seems to be rooted in inequality and the whole idea of a "weaker" sex, when we know women are not that at all.
Still i have to admit somewhat liking a few of the gentile type ways of social interaction
1. Opening doors and/or allowing me to go first up stairs etc.
2. Ordering first in a restaurant
3. I consider sisterhood with other women to be a sort of privilege, our culture encourages it and it something beneficial that men don't really have in the same way.
4. Trans women - We have the privilege of avoiding the high risk of prostate cancer that cis men face. Something like 11% and 80% of men will have other problems with that little organ in their lifetime. Its extremely rare in trans women that are on HRT.
Thats about all i can think of at the moment. I prefer equality and will fight for it every chance i get.
I wouldn't want to go through divorce or family court as a man.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11497237/Construction-tycoon-left-homeless-after-ex-wife-wins-80-of-his-property-in-divorce.html
http://www.sflg.com/blog/2014/11/why-are-only-3-percent-of-alimony-recipients-men/
Quote from: Aurorasky on July 25, 2017, 12:10:52 PM
Most of the things you say can actually be evidence AGAINST so called female privilege. We'll go one by one...
(https://sellinlikeziggler.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/3248582-facepalm-seriously.jpg)
Quote from: JMJW on July 25, 2017, 02:46:16 PM
I wouldn't want to go through divorce or family court as a man.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/law-and-order/11497237/Construction-tycoon-left-homeless-after-ex-wife-wins-80-of-his-property-in-divorce.html
http://www.sflg.com/blog/2014/11/why-are-only-3-percent-of-alimony-recipients-men/
Most couples don't slug it out in court. For those that do, there's already something very hostile going on and both parties have decided that independent arbitration is the only way forward.
Most children who are able to communicate their desires are asked, and there is a presumption that they know what they want.
Yes the courts do favour the custodial parent in terms of finances and housing. If more men were willing to take time off to the detriment of their careers and earnings, to do the flexitime, to sacrifice their pensions, then that would show up in the figures and the proportion of custody settlements.
It is slowly creeping that way, but not far enough, and that isn't women's fault. It's actually mens fault, and within the purview of men with children to fix.
The courts do presume in England that the richer partner will keep the poorer one in the lifestyle to which they've become accustomed. The poorer partner generally is the woman (and that's not indicative of privilege), but it isn't always.
There is nothing in the legal system that is gendered in that way. It isn't men v women. It's richer partner v poorer partner. Some of the biggest divorce settlements have been paid to men.
Even if custody is decided against for instance, the father, it remains illegal for the mother to remove a child from the country without the consent of the father. They can technically have you arrested at the airport for doing so, even if you're only going on a weeks holiday.
I've just been watching William and Harry doing their 'Our mother Diana' thing on ITV - that goes to show where the law really stands. There is a presumption of joint custody, and providing it isn't slugged out in court, that's where it rests. It did in that case.
There is also a presumption that the richer partner provides for the poorer partner, which is why she got the £20 million lump sum. Not actually a great deal of money realiy, considering his family art collection alone is worth God knows how many billions. But the point is, he was rich, she wasn't. She got the lump sum.
Paloma Picasso was divorced in England and had to pay her husband about half a billion. Joan Collins had to pay most of her Dynasty earnings to her ex husband for the same reason. That is not gender related, it's purely finance. That's where the gender part often comes into play, but it doesn't show female privilege.
I disagree.
Sweden's system is fair as it takes into account the advances of the modern woman:
Maintenance for spouse[edit]
Main article: Alimony
The fundamental idea is that divorce effectively severs all forms of economic relations between spouses.[9] Each spouse is therefore individually responsible for his or her own financial support after divorce. Maintenance is seldom granted except in certain circumstances. It must be shown that the spouse is financially needy and that the marriage has resulted in the need for maintenance.[9]
Maintenance is given when a spouse has difficulty in supporting himself or herself for a transitional period following the divorce. Such transitional maintenance provides the needy spouse with opportunities to seek gainful employment or retraining. The sum is determined by considering the spouse's ability to pay, as well as several other factors.
Spousal maintenance is also granted in cases involving marriages of long duration where the spouse becomes financially needy following the separation. This form of maintenance extends over the transitional period and the exact duration is determined upon the relevant facts of each case.
Maintenance for children[edit]
Main article: Child Support
Maintenance for children is compulsory and the sum is to be determined either by an agreement or by a court decision.[20] When assessing the sum, consideration is given to the financial ability of the spouse paying. If the spouse does not pay anything or gives below the stipulated sum, child support is provided by the Swedish Social Insurance Agency.[21] The spouse is then required to reimburse the agency for all or part of the sums paid for towards the child.
As opposed to our system that hasn't been updated in a hundred years, where the wife is paid alimony until she remarries and the man (almost always a man) goes to jail when he can't pay child support and is kept there until he finds the means to pay.
Quote from: JMJW on July 26, 2017, 08:28:04 PM
I disagree.
Sweden's system is fair as it takes into account the advances of the modern woman:
Maintenance for spouse[edit]
Main article: Alimony
The fundamental idea is that divorce effectively severs all forms of economic relations between spouses.[9] Each spouse is therefore individually responsible for his or her own financial support after divorce. Maintenance is seldom granted except in certain circumstances. It must be shown that the spouse is financially needy and that the marriage has resulted in the need for maintenance.[9]
Maintenance is given when a spouse has difficulty in supporting himself or herself for a transitional period following the divorce. Such transitional maintenance provides the needy spouse with opportunities to seek gainful employment or retraining. The sum is determined by considering the spouse's ability to pay, as well as several other factors.
Spousal maintenance is also granted in cases involving marriages of long duration where the spouse becomes financially needy following the separation. This form of maintenance extends over the transitional period and the exact duration is determined upon the relevant facts of each case.
Maintenance for children[edit]
Main article: Child Support
Maintenance for children is compulsory and the sum is to be determined either by an agreement or by a court decision.[20] When assessing the sum, consideration is given to the financial ability of the spouse paying. If the spouse does not pay anything or gives below the stipulated sum, child support is provided by the Swedish Social Insurance Agency.[21] The spouse is then required to reimburse the agency for all or part of the sums paid for towards the child.
As opposed to our system that hasn't been updated in a hundred years, where the wife is paid alimony until she remarries and the man (almost always a man) goes to jail when he can't pay child support and is kept there until he finds the means to pay.
That's not what happens in our system at all. I said what happens, which is pretty much what happens in Sweden.
Look I have male clients right now whose ex wives pay them alimony. I also have clients of both genders whose ex partners should be paying alimony but don't, and are nowhere near prison, although they are in debt and it could be enforced by asset seizure or bankruptcy proceedings. But what I said before is entirely accurate in that most people don't even fight that out in court, most people can't be bothered and don't want to drag it into court.
There is nothing in English law that says 'the female partner will be financially compensated by the male'. Absolutely nothing, no such clause exists. The richer partner pays the poorer partner (hence the 'need' basis is exactly the same as the legal presumption in Sweden), and that is it.
The poorer partner is usually the female, but that is the opposite of gender privilege.
Additionally, child support is NOT paid by the father until the mother remarries, and then ceases. You have that wrong. It is paid to whoever the custodial parent is, until the child is either 18 or has finished full time education. That holds whether the custodial parent never remarries, or subsequently cycles through multiple rich divorces.
The law doesn't work that way, so there isn't a single court in the land that will accept the premise that 'my ex wife married a millionaire so now I can stop paying child support'. No, your child, YOU pay. You either pay for them to live with you, or you pay for them to live with the other parent. That's it, those are the only two options.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvTkbsCpvwU
Women spend more than men. Women get double the university degrees, earn more than men on average before the age of 40. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3214854/Pay-gap-Women-earn-men-till-40s-20-woman-paid-men-age-group-decade.html
And yet 97% of alimony goes to women.
Furthermore women can simply say their husband was abusive and that practically guarantees either full or the vast majority of custody. I have heard it from women in the documentary Divorce Corp, that lawyers have encouraged them to say it, cry, and cause the man to no longer contest custody, as it's a losing waste of money even at the threat of it. Family court has no jury and there In fact that National Organization of Women argued against a default starting point of 50/50 custody. There is absolute gender bias in family court, and the vast disparity in custody that exists to this day.
It was because of feminist Caroline Norton's Tender Years Doctrine that the man was put in the position of having to pay for the child while losing custody. To this day, 83% of mothers receive custody of their children in divorces, and this is defended in a topic where feminists are saying both parents have to work in this day and age and women are not typically allowed to stay at home and be full time caregivers.
Quote from: JMJW on July 26, 2017, 09:10:02 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvTkbsCpvwU
Women spend more than men. Women get double the university degrees, earn more than men on average before the age of 40. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3214854/Pay-gap-Women-earn-men-till-40s-20-woman-paid-men-age-group-decade.html
And yet 97% of alimony goes to women.
Furthermore women can simply say their husband was abusive and that practically guarantees either full of the vast majority of custody. I have heard it from women in the documentary Divorce Corp, that lawyers have encouraged them to say it, cry, and cause the man to no longer contest custody, as it's a losing waste of money even at the threat of it. Family court has no jury and there In fact that National Organization of Women argued against a default starting point of 50/50 custody. There is absolute gender bias in family court, and the vast disparity in custody that exists to this day.
It was because of feminist Caroline Norton's Tender Years Doctrine that the man was put in the position of having to pay for the child while losing custody. To this day, 83% of mothers receive custody of their children in divorces, and this is defended in a topic where feminists are saying both parents have to work in this day and age and women are not typically allowed to stay at home and be full time caregivers.
The Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph are not reputable sources. The former is particularly not something that should ever be referenced as factual.
Look, it doesn't matter whether you lose custody, you have to pay for your own child. The trust is correct.
BTW, saying your husband was physically abusive does not 'guarantee' custody. It guarantees that the social work department will interview the child/ren, and if it's found that he has never been abusive to them, then it doesn't factor in.
Quote from: alex82 on July 26, 2017, 09:13:14 PM
The Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph are not reputable sources. The former is particularly not something that should ever be referenced as factual.
Look, it doesn't matter whether you lose custody, you have to pay for your own child. The trust is correct.
BTW, saying your husband was physically abusive does not 'guarantee' custody. It guarantees that the social work department will interview the child/ren, and if it's found that he has never been abusivet to them, then it doesn't factor in.
These newspapers aren't the source for the pay gap stat. They're merely quoting statistics from the Office for National Statistics.
And two newspapers are reputable enough for stories about how a childless wife with a business degree wins 80% of a man's assets because my original point was if I was a man I wouldn't touch family court with a 4000 ft flag pole. Why would any man not believe the newspapers there? Out of some blind faith in the system?
He doesn't have to be abusive to the kids. She can merely claim that he was abusive to her, and his chance of getting custody? Down in flames. All a wife has to do is call the police, say he was threatening or violent, and he will be arrested and jailed on the spot (mandatory arrest) and denied access to the home, as detailed in the Violence against women act. His chances of custody? Crashes and burns.
If it doesn't matter who has custody, why do women get it almost always when the age of the dedicated housewife is over? Because the laws are old and out of touch.
I had been through the divorce. In theory it's all good and fair. In practice, my lawyer asked me, so we contest a custody? It will cost you 25k (please provide me a retainer) and we will lose at the end.
So, I ended up paying 33% of my money to child support, 33% to Uncle Sam in taxes and leaving a lucrative life on 33% myself.
Then, a few years later, I remarried, got 2 more children, and lost a job. I immediately applied for child support modification, payed 5k to a layer to do that (do you think it's little money when you are unemployed?). 2 years later modification was granted. All this time friendly IRS continued to withhold all amount + penalties for not paying child support for my nearly adult children. They would leave me with 35% of my net paycheck, and try to arrest money on checking account (just took once the 65 from paycheck and arrested the rest when they got deposited into the checking). I had to live and support my family on those leftovers. IRS cared that my ex-wife continued to enjoy our pre-divorce lifestyle, not asking if I can enjoy it, or if I have any roof over my head, or any food, or my younger children are enjoying the same life style. And I couldn't even be considered low-income, having a big family surviving on McDonalds-level salary since in paper my salary was over 100k. I survived it, I am strong. But in divorce court, laws and logic are thrown away, just 'give all you have to baby' and laws are totally in female's favor. At least I happened to divorce in such state (your state might vary).
And I know smarter guys who hide all the money abroad and transferred their company stocks to relatives and ended up paying nothing. I just did not want to pay any dirty tricks in relation to my children (but oh boy, I should)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I came of age during the Vietnam War, and was subject to the the draft lottery. Of 365 numbers, my birthday was #7. Anyone with a number under 120 was drafted.
Seeing the handwriting on the wall I left college and joined the Navy. It beat being drafted and sent to Vietnam with a distinct possibility of being killed or wounded. I was 30 years old when I finally got through college.
I was fortunate to make it to 30, mentally and physically sound. Not so many of my cohort. Many who were not physically injured or killed were left with mental scars that were slow to heal.
Women were not subject to the draft and only volunteers served in Vietnam.
Randi
Quote from: JMJW on July 26, 2017, 09:30:40 PM
These newspapers aren't the source for the pay gap stat. They're merely quoting statistics from the Office for National Statistics.
And two newspapers are reputable enough for stories about how a childless wife with a business degree wins 80% of a man's assets because my original point was if I was a man I wouldn't touch family court with a 4000 ft flag pole. Why would any man not believe the newspapers there? Out of some blind faith in the system?
He doesn't have to be abusive to the kids. She can merely claim that he was abusive to her, and his chance of getting custody? Down in flames. All a wife has to do is call the police, say he was threatening or violent, and he will be arrested and jailed on the spot (mandatory arrest) and denied access to the home, as detailed in the Violence against women act. His chances of custody? Crashes and burns.
If it doesn't matter who has custody, why do women get it almost always when the age of the dedicated housewife is over? Because the laws are old and out of touch.
Women almost always get it because it's based on a continuation of what the child already has. If the mother has been the main carer, and therefore the one who is financially disadvantaged, then the mother will get it.
Once again I add that most couples never reach that stage but come to an agreement outside the court system.
Yes, there is mandatory arrest for domestic violence. I have female clients who have been arrested for the same because the neighbours have called the police. Most people do not commit perjury by falsely stating that they have been physically or sexually assaulted.
I shouldn't have decided to read this, but now that I have I can't help but dispute some of the points mentioned. I mean this with all respect, but some of these points are just straight-up wrong or misled. I feel obligated to point these out and put in my two cents.
Quote
Women used to be able to, but nowadays with the economy the way it is, and salaries lower than the old days, they just can't. stay at home now. Psychology researchers postulate that this is the cause for the rising autism and ADHD rates in children. Parents who are barely in their children's lives as they have to work. Children who are raised by Tv.
Actually most of what I've seen is that the rising autism rates seem to be caused by the fact that we now know what to look for. While we still don't know for sure what causes it, you can spot autism in very young children- most are spotted by the age of 5 and a little under 20% are spotted under the age of 2. I doubt it's caused because of working mothers. Nobody just leaves their child alone- they hire a nanny or ask a relative to look after the kid. Changing hands often may cause some negative traits in children, but nothing as extreme as autism. You ever met anyone with extreme autism? No way in hell is that caused just by a kid being raised by someone other than their mom. I know plenty adopted kids, and I've met a decent amount of kids on the spectrum, and I know plenty of people who had working moms. There is no connection that I can see.
Quote
It's men who have to learn to listen and sympathize with each other
No. No no no, no. I have seen men being criticized for having feelings more often by women than by other men. Maybe it's just where I live, but I have seen men comforting eachother here while the women continue to hold them to this emotionless standard.
Quote
Men are more likely to be the one doing the beating. Therefore, more men are arrested for domestic violence than women.
Yeah, more likely, sure, but it's not exactly 99% men doing the beating. It's a 60/40 ratio (in the uk), and how many men are too scared to speak up? How many men are ridiculed out of pressing charges? Think about what happens if you hear a woman was hit by a man: "Oh girl, you need to go to the police! No man should get away with that!" But then if a woman hits a man? "You go girl! Break his nuts!"
The inequality is real.
Quote
Yes... But circumcision is mostly a religious norm for Jews. And it's not the penis that is cut, it's skin. As for female genital mutilation, it's one of the main areas of deriving sexual pleasure for girls and women, the clitoris, that is cut.
This makes me so angry. beyond angry. How can you dismiss genital mutilation as "the norm for jews"? Circumcision cuts away one of the "
main areas of deriving sexual pleasure" for men, but even if this wasn't the case it'd still be disgusting. Genital mutilation is genital mutilation, and it disgusts me that it's still practiced to this day. And it's not just the jews- it's many types of abrahamic faiths that practice circumcision. including Christianity. Luckily the rates in the US are dropping, but even now the numbers are far above what any modern culture should be thoughtlessly accepting.
Angry nitpicking is over.
Yes, undautri, I agree. There are definitely disadvantages to being a man, which are rooted in the thought that men are expected to be stronger because they are superior to females. That's why I don't agree that list is telling of female privilege, but it's definitely telling of how feminism has worked to liberate women but not men. Works needs to be done both ways.
I know I answered a few days back
But I thought of another awesome female privilege.. actually two
- being able to wear open toe shoes or sandals to work in summer
- If its hot, I can wear above the knee skirt and have my legs bare at work... That was one thing I hated as a male.. when its hot, having to wear long pants with shoes and socks to work.
Quote from: Sarah leah on July 25, 2017, 08:07:04 AM
This one is based solely on general western norms and sure to upset. However, when I discussed this with a panel of five world class Universities it was pretty much a perfect snap shot.
Call me a natural born rebel, but I can't resist to react when authority is quoted as an argument. Just for pointing a few things:
Quote from: Sarah leah
1.I can socialise without the fear of being sexually manipulated and/or seduced. (girls only bars/security in my building, men will jump to my aid if I scream vs. other genders who might scream, separate areas on public transport between 9pm-7am to protect me if I want it)
Well, I'm not really sure how the measures to solve a big problem (women harassment) can be interpreted to be a "privilege". I'm no legal-head but you know, to me, to be proportionally protected against a threat sounds more like a right than like a privilege.
Sadly enough, even with those measures working, vast majority of victims still be women. Well, we always can argue they get advantage and they lie (we can go as far as arguing conspiracies if we want).
Quote from: Sarah leah2.I can enjoy the luxuries of staying at home and rely on my spouse for financial security without being frowned upon by society for doing so.
Not in my society unless you're the mom of at least 4 little kids. In fact, what my society would expect of a woman is to both take care of the kids/home and work in a job the most hours she can.
Quote from: Sarah leah
3.I can openly talk about my mental health and emotions without being negatively judged by society.
Not just men, but even other women may call you a "crybaby" depending on how much you "talk".
Quote from: Sarah leah
4.I am not expected to remain onboard a sinking ship in order to allow the opposite gender to reach safety first.
Putting others safety first in such a situation (no matter what gender you are or they are) is an honor. And those who do this, are really privileged and regarded as heros, whether they are men or not.
Quote from: Sarah leah
5.I am able to look after my children and simultaneously apply for financial compensation from my workplace without being negatively judged by society.
Not in my society. And even a compensation will be no privilege but justice, since because of motherhood many women lose important career opportunities and experience.
Quote from: Sarah leah
6.In case of divorce, I get greater custody over my children and a greater say in the situation, along with greater sympathy from the judiciary and greater freedom to choose my child's co-parent.
Again not in my society.
Quote from: Sarah leah
7.I will receive lighter prison sentences and better judicial treatment simply because of my gender.
I find really hard to figure how to make a reliable statistic since each crime is unique and usually a summary contains hundreds of pages.
Quote from: Sarah leah
8.Most domestic violence perpetrators of my gender do not get arrested in comparison to the counterparts of the opposite gender.
Even if true, sadly the most easy to verify victims (those who die) still are women. Watch out your privileges!
Quote from: Sarah leah
9.My gender does not commit suicide at a multiple rate in comparison to the opposite gender.
Curiously enough as some research indicates, suicide behaviours are linked to externalizing psychopatologies, who are more common among men (in fact, suicide can be regarded somewhat as an externalizing and violent, specially in the way men commit it, behaviour). Balancing this, there is the greater prevalence of major depressing (often lifelong) disorders among women. Food for thought.
And it goes on...
Obviously I think is really healthy to always look at the bright side of things and be happy for the opportunities we may have as women, that's for sure. But we need to be a little critical and realistic. The fact that those women that behave much like most men and play really well by mens rules are the ones who are on the top layers of society may raise a red flag about "who is who"; for who and by who is "designed".
I'm not saying being a man is living in a pink world full of fantasy and goodies. It's not. But saying that females are "privileged" is nonsensical, as is nonsensical to say a slave has the privilege of not having to care about his fate because master decides for him.
'Women and children first' is no longer the case. It should never have been the case in the first place, and it isn't any more.
Such a rule would be extremely dangerous and lead to great loss of life in the event of say, a plane crash. One aisle to get over 300 people out before it catches fire...'after you Madame, no after you, wait is that boy 15 or 17, hold him back, after you madame'. Man accompanying his children held back while a single woman was ushered ahead of him? That would be chaos. Most of the passengers would be incinerated before even the chosen ones made it to the exits.
Quote from: noleen111 on July 28, 2017, 08:09:07 AM
I know I answered a few days back
But I thought of another awesome female privilege.. actually two
- being able to wear open toe shoes or sandals to work in summer
- If its hot, I can wear above the knee skirt and have my legs bare at work... That was one thing I hated as a male.. when its hot, having to wear long pants with shoes and socks to work.
That is a great one and i agree. Its so nice to wear a skirt or dress in summer particularly.
It really forces me to have to do even more to prove myself just because I am a woman. Hugs
Mariah
Quote from: Aurorasky on July 25, 2017, 04:15:18 AM
*Being talked down to at jobs
*Having to know more than the men in the discussion to be taken seriously, if you know the same or less, you won't be heard
*you'll get unsolicited comments about your appearance, whether you want it or not
*Gossiping is a real thing and sooner or later you will be the one everyone's gossiping about
Both male and female priviledges sometimes balance out in the end, when myself and hubby got married 7 years ago, marriage was new to both of us, neither of us could cook, yet it was me that took the cookery courses and learning recipes, because I was the wife it was expected, he still can't cook, but then heavy repair chores he'll do them which I'm usless at,
Quote from: noleen111 on July 28, 2017, 08:09:07 AM
- being able to wear open toe shoes or sandals to work in summer
- If its hot, I can wear above the knee skirt and have my legs bare at work... That was one thing I hated as a male.. when its hot, having to wear long pants with shoes and socks to work.
I do value my summer dresses, got another yesterday and hubby paid for it, I have over 20 pairs of shoes some with my beloved open toe showing off my painted nails, hubby has only 3 pairs including 1 pair of trainers, priviledges swing in roundabouts, if we stay in on Sundays, hubby spends it on the sofa with the Sunday newspaper watching football on TV playing with his phone, I'm in the kitchen preparing vegetable, and roast casserole, cooking is hot work, it's not a priviledge, but then Saturday nights, if we're not getting a cab, he does all the driving and has all the stress, I just sit back and relax and enjoy the night and get treated like a lady, now that is a priviledge.
I don't really believe that actual female privilege is a thing, I agree with those who say that only men really have privilege. The context of a misogynistic society hangs over every little thing that might come up into my mind that women apparently have better.
However, one thing that has always bothered me over the years, being in band and orchestra, is concert attire. Men are forced to either wear tuxedos or what is called "concert black", which is still long sleeves and pants. Women, on the other hand, have such a variety that can be worn. Dresses, suits, etc. Women can even wear short sleeves!
When looking at the broader picture, I know that the classical music world is very misogynistic, though, and that clothes "privilege" is small (and it's not as simple as it looks). Plus, I realize I'm just dysphoric. Do guys even actually care about this stuff? Apparently men actually like tuxedos. :o
Privilege is somewhat in the eye of the beholder. Women can choose not to participate in the labor force without social disapproval. Is this privilege? Maybe if they have a partner that's a good provider. If they don't, and have to participate in the labor force, "privilege" disappears rather quickly. There are societal gender differences that work to women's advantage I suppose. Women do have more license to experiment with their appearance and presentation. Emotional expression is much more supported. In theory, violence against women is less tolerated. (In practice, perhaps, not so much.) But any privilege based on a stereotype of women as weak and in need of protection is a rather two-edged sword that harms more than it helps.
Women have certain unique privileges related to gender role, just as men have some unique privileges. In general, however, men have quite a bit of privilege compared to women, which appears everywhere from salaries to social interactions in mixed company, to simply occupying space in public or social environments.
I've been doing the Real Life Expeience thing for a few years now, and am all too familiar with the differences in privilege.
I dont' see any of that "female privilegue" maybe the unique thing in here, is, boys can't hurt you.
The persons who don't pass thinks so much in that estereotypical things and is like, well you never are gonna pass, why do you think that to much lmao XD i dont' wanna be rude, just honest.
Quote from: Wild Flower on July 24, 2017, 05:57:02 PM
I am avoiding that completely.
We are women too, but we also know male privilege
For male privilege,
Being consider knowledgeable before actually talking about it (more male oriented subjects though)
I agree that we also know male privilege. The majority of us spent most of our lives in the closet including myself and I definitely benefited from
white male privilege. The degree of it is shrinking but it is still a thing.
I am going to catch up on this entire thread when I am not so exhausted. Personally it has opened my eyes and increased my empathy learning how marginalized people live. I have learned much from living as openly transgender.
While I appreciate a good debate (even one as over hashed and over hyped as this topic is), there seems to be some polarization preventing actual discussion regarding the word
Privilege
I would like to suggest that replacing that one word with "Positive Social Norms" OR "Negative Social Norms". This will allow people to bring up both the positive, and negative aspects of expected behaviors of, and toward, each gender. To define a "Social Norm' it would be an act, expectation, or belief that if seen would not be deemed as "out of place in society". As social norms can differ from place to place (New York is different from California which is different from India...), it may help prevent confusion if people at least define the area in which they are speaking about.
Ricki
Hmm... well, let me put this out there. I'm still not out and am publicly male. The other day, I was out with a group of people, and the conversation drifted into politics. I started airing my grievances towards Hillary Clinton, particularly in regards to her silence about Bill Clinton's sexual assault allegations. A guy in the group got angry about this and started defending her honor, and then a third guy started taking over us and repeatedly insisted we end the conversation and change the subject.
This is supposedly something that commonly happens to women, right? Yet, it happened to me. One man got visibly angry about an opinion I had, another one just straight-up talked over me until I didn't have any other choice but to shut up. This stuff can happen to men and people identified by others as men, too, and I believe it mainly happens in liberal social circles where anyone identified by the group as a straight white man is expected to follow a party line and not rock the boat, because we're supposed to be voluntarily taking the back seat and letting the persecuted minorities take the lead. This isn't the only time something like this has happened, I have the hardest time getting anyone to listen to my opinions or my problems without being summarily dismissed, because they're not opinions or problems that a white man should have. By contrast, I've seen women make similar complaints no one bats an eye
Depending on the social setting, women are a lot more able to talk about their emotions, opinions, and personal problems than men are, even in mixed company. This may be a generational thing, too; young white men are conditioned to harbor a lot of white male guilt that older men probably didn't experience when they were young. It's gotten to the point where I'm just about done with certain "friends" of mine, because every time I try to be emotionally open to them, they just get angry at me. They refuse to believe that a man could legitimately feel silenced, stifled, or threatened by anything a liberal politician does, so they just don't take me seriously and straight up insist I don't talk about it.
As someone who lived over half my life tagged as female, I can confirm that female privilege - in the same way we define the word for men, as a collection of advantages or favorable situations generally bestowed by others in society unto you solely on the basis of what's between your legs - exists.
It is not transferable by definition to the exact same position as men, by default. I.e. if women have the privilege of, for example, the fact it is an undeniable social taboo for men to beat the crap out of women the same way they can get away with doing to a man, then men can't also access this same privilege. And vice versa.
While I have seen privilege for both genders, I have often missed out on my share and benefitted at times. I have lived my life as a male, but I am empathetic, caring, and not aggressive, so my career prospects were limited by guys who would simply talk over me. At my divorce custody hearing, I was found to be the preferred parent, and my ex wife was ordered to pay me child support. I joined a single parents support group (all women) and they told me I would need to register for single parents pension so I could stay home and look after my 2 pre schoolers. My family and friends who saw me as a man, felt I had no moral right to stay at home on benefits to raise my children. My compromise was to work from home. Looking like a man, but behaving like a woman confused many around me and generally robbed me of privileges.
3 men walked past me while I had a toddler in each hand, and a woman finally opened a door for me. It was nice.
Allie
Yes, female privilege certainly exists. Females aren't perceived as a threat the way other men are. Both sexes have shared intimate details of how their industry works. Doubt I'd be privy to that if I was perceived as male.
As far as career goes, I've figured out that except for one IT guy with highly needed skills, I'm likely the highest paid person where I work without management responsibilities. Given that I'm paid enough for my needs, I'm OK with that.
Additionally, I think it's simply objectively true that men have fewer options regarding their personal appearance than women do. Imagine a man going to work one day wearing a dress and feminine makeup; at the very least, he would get a lot of weird looks and many co-workers and supervisors asking for an explanation. At the worst, he would be told to go home and change, and fired if he refused. By contrast, a woman can wear pants and no makeup to work, no problem, no one giving her a second look. If anyone did give her a hard time about it, they'd probably get a talking to from HR.
Male dress codes for work environments are also extremely unflattering and ugly, frankly, even on men. Khakis and a tucked-in button-down shirt only look decent if you're very skinny, bit if you're a man who feels uncomfortable with his body image, tough-luck, your workplace dress code probably requires you to wear your shirt tucked in, even if it doesn't require women to. Male "fashion" in the workplace is based on some arbitrary standard of "professionalism" with no regard for the physical or emotional comfort of men, while women have the option to wear a wider variety of clothing that may be more comfortable and flattering.
In my world the only privilege I have over men is being let out of the elevator first, doors being opens for me, and other regular social norms.
In my career there really are none. If you're a woman in IT you have to prove yourself first before anyone takes you seriously on your team. Being attractive, with a innocent sounding voice really makes it even harder. The guys thought I was some airhead that's just there to fill in space on my newest project. I've learned from another awesome woman that I have to insert myself, speak up, and call others stupidity out tactfully.
My mom taught me that our power is in our beauty (that cost more money and time for us). I don't believe this as explained above in IT. In IT technical positions being beautiful hurts a woman.
So I really think everything is relative to ones situation. However I feel that men do have more privileges in life overall.
"more" vs "less" privilege isn't a very valuable concept when you consider that any given person may not have the "average" amount of privilege, so to someone who receives less privilege than average for their gender, it's not any consolation for them to hear that most members of their assumed gender receive a lot of privilege, so their own lack of privilege deserves to be unexamined.
Like many people here, I work in IT. I am very frequently interrupted, talked over, or have my input dismissed, and have been rather blatantly insulted over aspects of myself that I'm sensitive about, like difficulty in reading others' emotions or interpreting vague instructions differently than I'm "supposed" to, and have never received a genuine apology. Trying to be open about my feelings and grievances has just dug me further into a hole. Being "assertive" has just gotten me in trouble. I've been told to just forget about past mistreatment and move on instead of continuing to seek redress, and to be accomodating in the future when it happens again instead of making complaints.
I'm pre-transition and look and sound like a 6+ foot tall white man. Being viewed as a white man is certainly not itself a free pass to "privilege" in the IT field. There are additional personality traits, interests, and social competencies you need to have in order to qualify. If a woman were treated the way I am at work, most social liberals would probably be aghast, but because I'm a "man", who cares? Since the treatment I face at work is only publicized as something women experience, men who have them are dismissed.