Hi there!
As the title says, I was wondering if you could describe the relief you get after being on HRT?
I started HRT about 6 weeks ago. Initially a very low dose of E then increased after 2 weeks. After 6 weeks I did not feel anything at all. No mental changes and no physical changes. I should mention that my goal is not to transition. I am just looking for that mental relief I keep hearing about.
A couple of days ago, I had a follow up appointment with my endocrinologist. I told him how I wasn't feeling anything yet. He increased my dosage of E. Now I take the oral Estradiol and in addition, I now also apply an estrogen gel to my skin. I think my mind is feeling a little calmer now. I don't feel like screaming and yelling and beating my head against the wall and breaking things out of shear frustration, but I also still feel very much that I want to be female. I don't know if that calmness is the hormones or a placebo effect. The wanting to be female part has not changed. If anything, it has become an even stronger desire. To me, that desire to be female is what I call dysphoria and I thought the hormones were supposed to ease the dysphoria.
Am I misunderstanding something? I would like to hear your experiences.
Jayne
I was an ass pre hrt. Mopey, cynical, pessimistic, hated people. I just felt ..........bad. Hormones made me feel calmer, happier, less aggressive, less sad. They helped me to go full time. They helped boost my confidence as a woman to be out about being trans.
Hi Jayme, I don't believe I felt calmness until Spiro started working and reduced T. However the euphoric feeling with estradiol was immediate for me. If you aren't in Spiro, maybe investigate?
What I called dysphoria was the feeling of depression, despair, and hopelessness that were leading to a frequent desire to be dead. HRT cured that. It did not cure the underlying issue. If being trans is what I believe it to be, an identity originating in the physicality of the brain, then HRT shouldn't be expected to erase that since it is simply who I was born to be. What the HRT does is relieve the disconnect of the brain having to reside in a foreign testosterone rich environment.
Once the dysphoria is under control you can think clearly about it all, maybe for the first time ever, and make a rational decision on what to do, or not to do next.
In my opinion then, after seeing it all clearly, is not necessarily to go full transition right away but rather to do what is necessary to reach self actualization. This is going to be an individual destination that only you can discover for yourself and there is no one right or wrong answer.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Everyone feels differently. For me prior to E I had low T to begin with. I had mild gynocomastia that grew over several years. I did always have the feeling I should have been female. Always shrugged it off to what is is and that's that. I was a miserable person even when I tried to be happy. Even after meeting my wife and having kids I continued to NEED work to keep myself from being suicidal. My workaholism was my escape. After finally dealing with who I am I felt like transition would be path. For a while when I finally got low dose E I felt like I could continue living as a man on that dosage. Since my T was low, I felt a strange surge of being almost happy about 30 minutes after checking my first E pill. The thing that was my real truth is that I still wanted to transition. The doubts about how my family would be affected was the one reason I had to not transition. I finally came to the conclusion that I could hold off transition but I would not be happy. I would simply continue giving others my priority. I finally decided I had to find happiness in my own being, or I might as well eat that bullet. It has not been easy for myself and my wife. We are managing to get through it. Transition is the only path I can find happiness in myself so it is what I must do.
You must find what you must do for your own internal happiness.
Funny story, actually. First day I got my get, I wasn't expecting to. At the time I was clueless that Planned parenthood did it on informed consent, so I assumed the process of getting on it would be long, drawn out, arduous.
...so when the doc supplied me with my first shot that same day I was beyond exuberant. I tested my partner in the waiting room in all caps, and I was over the moon. When I got out I have them a high five knowing I did it, they had to call me back in to schedule an appointment because I forgot to and was about to leave.
I felt this weird tingly sensation, almost like I was mildly sick or woozy, but it felt good. I guess relief can count as a part of it because in the end I was surprised I could even get so soon, definitely relieved that there was no wait and jumping through hoops for me.
Oh...regarding your situation. Transition takes time, true excitement of starting is just the beginning, but you may have to wait on or work on changes over time before you can get that peace of mind. Pills alone, much like for any mental illness such as gender dysphoria, doesn't work. You need the time to improve and change things so you can't get to a place of feeling more relaxed or relieved
Quote from: Deborah on July 25, 2017, 08:23:13 PM
... after seeing it all clearly, is not necessarily to go full transition right away but rather to do what is necessary to reach self actualization. This is going to be an individual destination that only you can discover for yourself and there is no one right or wrong answer.
Omg Deborah, I love that^^
Thank you all for your replies. Every day my desire to be female gets stronger. Especially now that I have stopped trying to fight the feeling. I guess relief comes in different forms for each individual. For me, I was hoping that relief would come in the form of the desire to be female being suppressed. I thought hormones would do that.
I have always wanted to be a man and match the body I was born in. That probably sounds backwards to many of you. I suppose I have been too afraid to be the real me. Being a man seemed like the next best thing and by far the easier option as far as the rest of the world is concerned. But I didn't want to be a man that constantly thinks he should be a woman. I just wanted to be a normal cis guy. For some reason I thought a low dose of HRT would give me that or at the very least make it so that I am not unhappy to be male.
If I was still single and in my teens or twenties I think I would be going full steam ahead down the transition path. It is very hard for me to go down that path now. My wife is trying very hard to be supportive of me. I fear transition might be too much for her. I can't handle putting her through that.
Personally, I find E exacerbates the dysphoria if the latter implies a disconnect with your natal body and seeking to be your true self. It brings it up more to the surface and it's harder to fight it. Progesterone, on the other hand, calms it, shuts it up for awhile. I guess anti-androgens can do the same because probably either T or E work the same way, they bring things up to the surface so anti-androgen = less T.
That's how I see it and if you are truly ready to be you and you are at peace with this, then E will feel good to you. E is a gauge of how ready you are, I think...
I think that the hormones might finally be having some effect on my mind. Since I started using the estrogen gel a few days ago (in addition to the pills), I thought that I might have felt something different, but I didn't want to get too excited right away. I wanted to make sure it wasn't some kind of placebo effect or just my imagination.
What I am feeling is a sense of calm and clearer thinking. I don't seem to get as angry at other drivers on the road. (Anyone who has driven in Sydney traffic would know what I mean about bad drivers). It feels like a fog is lifting and the world is becoming a little brighter. What has not changed is the desire to be female. That seems as strong as it has ever been.
I think Deborah described it perfectly. I can very much relate to those words.
Quote from: Deborah on July 25, 2017, 08:23:13 PM
What I called dysphoria was the feeling of depression, despair, and hopelessness that were leading to a frequent desire to be dead. HRT cured that. It did not cure the underlying issue. If being trans is what I believe it to be, an identity originating in the physicality of the brain, then HRT shouldn't be expected to erase that since it is simply who I was born to be. What the HRT does is relieve the disconnect of the brain having to reside in a foreign testosterone rich environment.
Once the dysphoria is under control you can think clearly about it all, maybe for the first time ever, and make a rational decision on what to do, or not to do next.
Something strange also happened this morning at work. I went to the bathroom and I looked in the mirror as I was washing my hands and I almost liked what I saw. It was a foreign feeling for me, but a feeling I can get used to. I saw my therapist yesterday for the first time in about 4 weeks and she said that my face looks a little different. My endocrinologist said the same thing when I saw him a few days ago. I have not noticed anything and neither has my wife, but I see myself everyday. However, this morning in the mirror, I might have seen a tiny difference in my face and I liked what I saw.
If I still had any remaining doubts as to whether or not I am trans, they are now all gone. I am trans and I am very proud that I can admit it and just be myself.
Jayne
HRT may not totally resolve all that you feel however getting some of it under control will be a big help. In my case, I had social dysphoria and RLE helped control much of what I felt. Unlike you, my HRT treatment wasn't strong enough to knock down the chemical controlled portion of my dysphoria so before surgery, I still had to deal with that.
The fog lifting and the world becoming brighter are common descriptions I have seen others on the site post so I suspect it's not a placebo effect. Besides that, if it was a placebo effect, you should have felt it before your dosage was bumped up. The next couple of weeks should have you feeling the full effect of the treatment so keep us posted.
I am feeling a little better each day. It may not all be due to the hormones. I am also making good progress in my own self acceptance with my therapy. I think the combined effect of the hormones and therapy is giving me this good feeling I am having.
I will keep you updated over the next couple of weeks. I really hope this continues and I don't end up having another of my usual meltdowns that have always followed after I feel really good. This time is a little different. This time I am on HRT, so maybe that is what was missing the other times I crashed and burned.
Glad to hear Jayne. :angel: :angel:
I'm 2 weeks in on low dose HRT and have felt a whole host of mental/physical effects; I'm stuck in stop-and-go traffic right now and couldn't care less, for instance. Before I would have been drumming fingers on the steering wheel, etc. I'm sure other media can put you at ease in a similar fashion, but I also feel beyond a shadow of a doubt that I'm female, and much much much more better about doing something about it.
Last night I had a dream that I still remember in vivid detail. That hasn't happened in more than 20 years.
Quote from: Jayne01 on July 25, 2017, 05:35:11 PM
As the title says, I was wondering if you could describe the relief you get after being on HRT?
I started HRT about 6 weeks ago. Initially a very low dose of E then increased after 2 weeks. After 6 weeks I did not feel anything at all. No mental changes and no physical changes. I should mention that my goal is not to transition. I am just looking for that mental relief I keep hearing about.
Jayne - I've been intending to respond to your question since you started this thread and just now getting around to it. Even though I'm eight months in HT on transition dosages, I really can't say that I've experienced any "mental" relief or changes. In that respect, it seems that I'm an outlier in the YMMV aspect of HRT. Like you, I've seen many others gush about the near immediate relief of anxiety being replaced by calmness, or something to that effect. For me, that just didn't happen.
I will say that I've certainly seen a drop in libido and a diminishing need for sexual release. I suppose if you consider that to be a "mental" change, then I've experienced that. However, I consider it to be more of a physiological change, and I guess that could be open for debate.
Just my 2¢ worth. I see that you later noticed some change or improvement, and I do hope that your able to get satisfaction with your HRT however you pursue it. Please do keep us posted.
Quote from: Dena on July 26, 2017, 03:45:16 PM
HRT may not totally resolve all that you feel however getting some of it under control will be a big help. In my case, I had social dysphoria and RLE helped control much of what I felt. Unlike you, my HRT treatment wasn't strong enough to knock down the chemical controlled portion of my dysphoria so before surgery, I still had to deal with that.
Dena - As I mentioned in the other thread, this comment about your RLE gave me a little different perspective. As I noted elsewhere, I had approximately two years RLE and eight years of low dose spiro before getting the approval to begin HRT. Perhaps those two factors were enough to quell and even forget the feelings that others may seek to relieve. Indeed, I remember my therapist's letter of recommendation saying that "she's already living largely as desired." Maybe my expectations were just too high.
All the best,
--AshleyP
Hi AshleyP, thank you for your response. One thing that I am slowly learning is that we are all very different. We each have different expectations of what we desire and expect from HRT. We all have our own unique physiologies. So it is logical that we will each be affected differently by HRT.
My idea of relief could be very different to your idea of relief or the next persons. One positive that I am getting from this whole trans experience is learning to better relate to and understand other people and to appreciate and respect everyone's own individuality.
At some point before any medical intervention, I made a scale to measure my distress and document in my journal. I would never call it depression or hopelessness. For me it was a physical distress that existed in different levels of intensity:
1 - I can't believe I ever felt that way. That's stupid. I'm cured! The world is clear, the fog is gone, harmony, no dissonance (happens after sex)
2 - Not thinking about it at all, when I do I'm indifferent.
3 - Its there, but in the background. If I think about it, like white noise hissing faintly in my ears.
4 - Occasionally in the foreground, but I can push it to the background.
5 - In the foreground, but I can work through it. A little edgy.
6 - Occasionally distracting, but if I focus on something else, I can ignore it. Fairly edgy.
7 - Distracting. I want to do something. I feel compelled, but sometimes I can get through it.
8 - I need to cope. My 'bright passenger' needs attention.
9 - Nothing else matters. I HAVE to do something. I can't concentrate. Almost debilitating. I'll find anything to cope. I can barely fake normalcy.
10 - Completely debilitated.
I was journaling leading up to HRT. I was usually in the 4-7 range, but 8 or 9 wasn't uncommon. When I started spiro, it pretty quickly dropped to the 2-5 range. When I started estradiol, it disappeared entirely.
Later, I began to deal with a different issue, identity. It never resulted in me having to dress. It was just this dissonance between who I was inside and outside. It always felt mental, never physical. But it was still debilitating. That only went away as soon as I was living full time.
Here's my journal entry the day I started estrogen. I honestly don't believe it affected me this fast. BUT - the physical distress NEVER came back and this feeling just continued.
November 25, 2014
5:00am (2) I'm anxious but for different reasons. What's going to happen? Am I making mistake? Don't know. But I know I want to move forward.
8:00am (2) My first dose of estradiol. It melts quickly under my tongue. What happens next? How long do I have to wait? When will I feel better? Lots of questions swirling in my head.
9:00 (2) Feeling really good. Able to concentrate, able to focus. Feeling pretty good.
2:000p (0) I am buzzing. I'm smiling while sitting at my desk. I feel warm inside. Like I'm glowing. A veil has been lifted. The fog is gone. I actually tear up while sitting at my desk. I share all of this with Tina (my wife).
Emotionally, its as though some of the emotions are slipping through my grasp. I'm showing joy without being able to completely control it. It feels good, but very different. Is this a placebo effect? If it is, I want more placebos. If it isn't, wow. I have one of my most productive afternoons in a long time.
When writing a note to Jessica (employee I manage) about her upcoming maternity leave, I feel somehow a bit more empathetic. Probably makes no sense, but I feel really good about the email I wrote to her. The world is brighter.
4:00p (0) I have this urge to tell someone. Should I tell my admin Ashley? She's going to have to work with me and if my emotions are like today, she's going to notice. Or maybe I need to tell HR. In the end I don't do anything, but I am a bit fearful that the emotions are coloring my judgment a bit about this. I'm going to have to lean on Tina.
5:30p (1) Not buzzing anymore but still feeling good. I take the other half of my daily dose. I wonder how I'll feel the rest of the evening.
Off to get Abbey (daughter) .
Hi Debbie, thank you for sharing that information. Your distress scale is quite comprehensive, I like it. I tried to keep a journal of sorts about a year ago. I wasn't very good at it. I also used a scale of 1-10 for my distress level but I didn't have a detailed explanation for each number. It was just the number where 1 was very good and 10 was very distressed. I gave up on the journal.
It may be my imagination but I am getting the feeling that the people that feel relief very quickly after starting HRT are the ones who have a reasonably solid understanding and acceptance of who they are. The HRT is the. Ext step on their journey and once commenced gives them relief very quickly.
I was a bit different in that I did not fully accept myself. When I started HRT, my expectations were to hope for the dysphoria to go away and somehow "magically" make me feel like a cis guy. Unrealistic expectations. I am however feeling good about myself. Deep down I feel like I need to be female and that I would need to transition at some stage. I hope that feeling does not consume me, for my wife's sake.
Jayne
Being on HRT has made me less anxious on my everyday life. I feel like it has definitely helped in that regard. I still have a ways to go though. But this is a marathon not a sprint.
Quote from: Jayne01 on July 27, 2017, 12:09:24 AM
Hi Debbie, thank you for sharing that information. Your distress scale is quite comprehensive, I like it. I tried to keep a journal of sorts about a year ago. I wasn't very good at it. I also used a scale of 1-10 for my distress level but I didn't have a detailed explanation for each number. It was just the number where 1 was very good and 10 was very distressed. I gave up on the journal.
It may be my imagination but I am getting the feeling that the people that feel relief very quickly after starting HRT are the ones who have a reasonably solid understanding and acceptance of who they are. The HRT is the. Ext step on their journey and once commenced gives them relief very quickly.
I was a bit different in that I did not fully accept myself. When I started HRT, my expectations were to hope for the dysphoria to go away and somehow "magically" make me feel like a cis guy. Unrealistic expectations. I am however feeling good about myself. Deep down I feel like I need to be female and that I would need to transition at some stage. I hope that feeling does not consume me, for my wife's sake.
Jayne
That's a great observation. Gender Dysphoria has so many side effects.
I'd spent the previous decade plus trying to get healthy without meds. The result was that I had gotten a lot of the other junk out of my life and all that I had left was the chemistry problem.
i was a very reluctant traveler down this path. I loved my old life circumstances. I didn't want to upset them. So I fought really hard against going down this path.
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Quote from: debrferguson on July 27, 2017, 08:50:50 AM
...
i was a very reluctant traveler down this path. I loved my old life circumstances. I didn't want to upset them. So I fought really hard against going down this path.
Very well put. That is exactly how I felt
Oh CRAP!!!!!!
I woke up feeling ok this morning. Well as ok as one can feel getting up at 3:20am to go to work. However, as the day is progressing I am starting to feel like I am going back to the way I felt before increasing my hormone dosage. I am worried that the good feeling I was experiencing for the last couple of days was not because of the hormones but more likely a placebo effect due to me getting my hopes up that the increased dosage would make me feel better.
This constant up and down in my emotions is driving me crazy!
Aaaaarrrrgghhh!!!!
Jayne
Jayne, sorry to hear that. Others here have far more knowledge than I do, but I am hoping your good feelings come back and remain that way. Maybe your free hormone levels are fluctuating as your body adapts?
I just started MTF HRT with a fairly high E-only prescription (several of my natural pre-HRT hormones were pretty far under minimum) and have had an amazing positive emotional experience so far. I am also afraid of a placebo effect. When I noticed quite a change to visual perception I wasn't 100% sure, but then noticed all my senses have changed - especially perception of smell/taste.
I suspect that anything you feel during the first weeks of HRT is placebo effect. Over time, I think calmness and increased emotional range are pretty common. I knew that HRT was making a difference for me 3-4 months in, when I felt like I no longer needed my antidepressants.
Quote from: Kendra on July 27, 2017, 04:54:51 PM
I am also afraid of a placebo effect.
Why be afraid of it? If you feel good, you feel good.
What I worry when people say that they felt different 20 minutes after taking their first dose is that others who come along and don't feel different in 20 minutes begin to think that there is something wrong with them. It takes years for hormones to shape the thought patterns of natal females. Don't be surprised if it takes you just as long.
My E only prescription is now quite high. At my last blood test, the dr told me my E levels had increased to approx mid cycle levels for a cis female. That was a result of the lower dose HRT I was on. Now I am on a higher dose and also the gel is supposed to be more efficiently absorbed than the pills. So I am expecting a more significant change in my levels with my current prescription.
Maybe today is just a normal day where I don't feel 100%. Everyone goes through normal ups and downs from day to day. I will try to stay positive. The last few days have been too good for me to throw away by getting myself too depressed today.
For my case I am afraid of it being a placebo effect but I don't think it is. I did think I felt something under one breast far too quickly (but damn something did feel physically different there), and that was probably placebo-ish. But I believe the emotional positive I am experiencing in just 3 days (some of it startled me within 24 hours of beginning) is very real. I have a rather long-winded post elsewhere in this forum with details from my past few days.
I don't know if this is due to E bringing hormone levels more closely matching the way my brain needs to be, or if I was depressed for several years or decades and HRT is directly tackling that. What I do know is I love what I am feeling.
Quote from: Kendra on July 27, 2017, 05:45:26 PM
... What I do know is I love what I am feeling.
Kendra, I agree with you. Today I am actually now enjoying that I am not feeling 100%. I feel like a normal person. The high I was on the last couple of days was great, but feeling a little down today and actually being able to accept it and embrace the feeling as a normal human experience is almost indescribable. I feel like a real human. Someone that belongs here on earth, in society, rather than the alien feeling I have known in the past. I am happy to be sad!!! I never thought a statement like that would ever make sense to me, but it makes sense to me now.
Quote from: Kendra on July 27, 2017, 05:45:26 PM
For my case I am afraid of it being a placebo effect but I don't think it is. I did think I felt something under one breast far too quickly (but damn something did feel physically different there), and that was probably placebo-ish. But I believe the emotional positive I am experiencing in just 3 days (some of it startled me within 24 hours of beginning) is very real. I have a rather long-winded post elsewhere in this forum with details from my past few days.
I found that the physical changes were very rapid in onset--pain in the breasts at about 10 days. It's the mental/emotional stuff that is always influenced by zillions of factors, most of which we are not even conscious of, that takes a bit longer.
Just entering my second week, I get there occasional tingly sensation in nipples, based on googling it seems to be a lower dose, but still a transition dose. I'm on Spiro and IM injection, which was significantly less painful than expected, I can do it myself and I'm not exactly a fan of needles.
My skin immediately dried out as well, to the point that lotion is a necessity, at least on the hands. I feel like my hair is not as greasy at the end of the day either. The mental effects... A big dumb smile for no apparent reason and I can suddenly talk to people without being self conscious. The dry skin seems to be the Spiro, the mental is definitely the estrogen. It lost efficacy towards the end of the week, and picked right up again when I gave myself another shot. I'll talk to the Endo about that drop off, maybe there's something she can do to take the edge off it, if not an increased dose.
It can take several doses before your levels stabilize.
I am starting to believe that the hormones are not doing a damn thing for me and that any minor effect I thought I might have felt in the last couple of days was just my imagination. Maybe I just have my expectations set to high. Right now, I can honestly say that I don't feel any different to before starting HRT. The good feeling I have had the last few days could easily be explained by me trying to change my way of thinking so that I don't get as easily depressed. I really don't know what is going on. From what I have read on other websites, I seem to be on a fairly high dose of estrogen now, yet I am feeling no changes.
The last few days I have been trying hard to remain positive, but it is getting old. It should not have to be such a big effort to just be able to enjoy life from day to day. I am starting to once again have thoughts wish I did not exist. I am not suicidal. I am not about to go kill myself, but if I somehow just got wiped off the face of the earth, well that would not be a bad thing.
Feeling this way just isn't right.
I suspect your Endo isn't finished with adjusting your medication. Hormones aren't going to make you feel joyful but the goal here is to make you comfortable with yourself. As I said, your testosterone is still in the male range as of the last test. How much more estrogen will pull that number down over time is yet to be determined. An additional issue is that I don't expect emotional changes until 2-4 weeks have passed after a dosage change. Stay with us and give it a little more time.
Dena made a good point that is my experience also. HRT did not make me feel happy, it made me feel normal. Feeling normal, and not disjointed, then made feeling happy easier and last longer when I was doing things I liked or when nice things happened. This was due to that constant voice telling me that things were wrong being silenced. However bad days still happen and I occasionally still get mad. These days just don't happen as often and when they do they're not nearly as bad as before.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Since starting my journey in 2004 and taking my first estrogen tablet the evening of March 31, 2004, I never really felt any different except that, over time, the physical changes resulting from HRT helped me pass and blend in society as a woman, helped me feel me more comfortable in my skin and made life not only more bearable but intensely joyful at times. Hormones are not a magic wand, you will continue feeling bad, sometimes, sad, angry, etc but if you truly feel you are a woman, this journey will definitely be worthwhile. Give it time, you'll see ;) You just started! LOL.
Thanks you. I'm not going anywhere. I intend to keep sticking around. I'm just getting confused with the ups and downs. I was starting to feel good about myself briefly then I went back to feeling the way I did before. For a few days I had a taste of what it may be like to feel normal for once in my life, even when I was feeling a little down one of the days, I was able to embrace that feeling. Then the next day it felt as though it all got ripped away from me. Like I am being punished for feeling normal.
I don't know if I will be able to just be on hormones without transitioning. I am having electrolysis done in my face and I shave my body hair, but that is it. Maybe I need more. This waiting is very hard.
I know the waiting is hard but before you know it, your dream will become reality, time flies by, trust me! You're doing something, moving forward so be happy about that. :)
Quote from: Deborah on July 29, 2017, 09:54:31 AM
Dena made a good point that is my experience also. HRT did not make me feel happy, it made me feel normal. Feeling normal, and not disjointed, then made feeling happy easier and last longer when I was doing things I liked or when nice things happened. This was due to that constant voice telling me that things were wrong being silenced. However bad days still happen and I occasionally still get mad. These days just don't happen as often and when they do they're not nearly as bad as before.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Yeah this. Not constantly thinking about what I'm supposed to be. And the bad days are fewer and tempered by knowing I'm on my way.
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Quote from: TonyaW on July 29, 2017, 02:15:16 PM
.... Not constantly thinking about what I'm supposed to be.
I don't know what that feels like. I am constantly having thoughts, 24/7, thinking "I'm a guy", "I'm a girl", "I'm a guy", "I'm a girl"........ and on and on it goes. It's relentless. There is no peace inside my head. The wheels are constantly turning trying to figure out what I am supposed to be doing. I've had enough. I just want it all to STOP!!!
Do many people here speak of the joy and relief they get once they start hormones. They remember the time and date they took their first dose. It makes me so envious. I only started about 7 weeks ago but I had to look at my calendar to see when I had my appointment with the endocrinologist. That was the day I started. It was a non event for me, like taking an aspirin tablet. Only difference being that an aspirin actually has some kind of effect by reducing a headache. The hormones are doing nothing at all. It doesn't make any sense, my body is absorbing the hormones. My blood levels are showing a significant change. Why am I not feeling some peace and relief? Perhaps I'm not trans and I have some mental illness instead. I just want some peace.......
A couple of questions to ask yourself. Is the reason you think you should be a guy because of shame? If so, that would be a problem accepting yourself. If you flip back and forth because you are comfortable in both identities, that would suggest gender fluid or bigender. From your past posting I have the feeling that that shame is the issue. I don't think it's a mental illness as I have seen no signs that you are anything other than transgender.
Many of us start with a full transition dose instead of ramping up to minimize the effects it has. This mean suppressed testosterone and at least a half transition dose of estradiol. Your doctor is taking a more conservative approach with you and it may take a few adjustments until the correct dosage is reached.
I ask myself those questions all the time. I am unable to come up with an answer. Sometimes I think it's just shame from a lifetime of being told "those people are sick". Other times when I am having a good day and just feel content with myself (which does t seem to be very often or for long periods of time), I wonder what is causing me to be happy, if I am trans then I should never have moments of being happy as a guy. I find it all very confusing.
As far as my medication goes, I believe that I am currently on a high dose of Estradiol, pretty much a full transition dose. I am a little confused with what my dr has told me though. Lots of things I have read say that the anti androgens are what eases the dysphoria and the E is what causes physical changes. My dr says it's the other way around. I don't want to go against his advice. He seems to be the only dr I hear mentioned for treating trans patients here in Sydney, and people speak very highly of him. I'm just really confused and disappointed with the complete lack of effects the hormones are having on me.
It appears your doctor is using the testosterone to block the feminizing effects of the estrogen. This is something I don't have much knowledge about as most people want all the effects they can get. This is why I am going to learn from your treatment. At high levels estrogen seems to have desirable emotional effects but the levels are way above what I have ever experienced. My levels at best guess have never exceeded 50 pg/pm and the emotional effects seem to start somewhere above 200 pg/ml.
At least with me, my libido and transgender urge were intertwined. Removing testosterone pretty well eliminated both however remember that I am asexual and libido is tied to things other than sex hormones alone.
Quote from: Jayne01 on July 29, 2017, 03:24:08 PM
, if I am trans then I should never have moments of being happy as a guy. I find it all very confusing.
I think this is the wrong way to view it. Before gender, and before anything else, you are an empathetic human being. So of course some things are going to make you happy as a human being. Being gender dysphoria doesn't mean you are unhappy all the time. Rather it means your mental identity doesn't match its physical embodiment and that this mismatch causes stress. But while this stress can be very severe it is not necessarily constant. In my experience it always faded very much to the background as long as my mind was laser focused on something else. And I found happiness and pride in what some would consider male accomplishments; but not because they reinforced maleness but because I "the human being" accomplished something difficult.
Conform and be dull. —James Frank Dobie, The Voice of the Coyote
Deborah, what you say makes sense. It doesn't explain why the hormones are having zero effect on my mental state. I am feeling nothing at all. Long ago when I first joined this forum with a since deleted account, I kept asking the question how do I know I am trans. Many people responded by telling me I should try hormones. If I am trans, then the hormones would make me feel better, if I'm not trans, they would make me feel worse. I am. It feeling anything, not better and not worse. NOTHING!!!!! What does that make me? I am neither trans or non-trans. I do not understand.
I have no doubt the few good days I had last week were a placebo effect. I had such high hopes that the new higher dosage I was out on would work that I must have somehow faked the good feeling. But because it was just a placebo effect and the hormones are not actually doing anything, the same old crap has come to the surface again. I want to beat my head against the wall, scream and yell and have a tantrum. I want the noise to stop, by any means possible. If I had a gun I would shoot myself in the head. Not because I am suicidal. I don't want to die. But just to make the noise and distress go away.
My blood tests indicate that my body is accepting the hormones. The levels are all shifting to a more female range but my mind is not responding at all. Not a damn thing is changing psychologically. I feel like just giving up. Throwing away my medication and just disappear and die in a hole somewhere.
Less prone to anger, more prone to tears. More clear headed -- and this was seriously verified when I tried going off HRT at 7 months and the return of difficult habits of mind was my strongest sign I needed to stay in HRT.
Have your levels been checked yet? Usually oral estrogen doesn't much suppress testosterone.
My E was in the female range and my T had dropped slightly but still in the upper male range at my last blood test. I have been using a transdermal gel for the past week as well as continuing with the pills. I'm not expecting big changes right away, but I was expecting something, anything.
As I understand it testosterone in anything like masculine ranges predominates in effect over estrogen -- E.g. natal women with elevated T levels will see masculine development and only complete removal of T will allow breast development.
I think the changes you say you've seen are consistent with your levels
Quote from: SadieBlake on July 30, 2017, 08:58:57 AM
I think the changes you say you've seen are consistent with your levels
I'm confused, what changes are you referring to? I have not felt any changes.
Besides, my endocrinologist told me that estrogen is what will ease my dysphoria and my levels are now well within the female range.
Quote from: Jayne01 on July 30, 2017, 07:32:16 AM
My E was in the female range and my T had dropped slightly but still in the upper male range at my last blood test. I have been using a transdermal gel for the past week as well as continuing with the pills. I'm not expecting big changes right away, but I was expecting something, anything.
Oh! This is a little unusual compared to the experience of most. Being on estradiol without suppressing testosterone is something most of us haven't experienced. In my case I was on a testosterone blocker for about a month prior to starting estradiol, and my labs show a very definite decline in T levels that directly correlate with my sensations of the mental 'fog' and 'noise' fading away. The effect was marked and definitely present before I started estradiol.
I had a very slow ramp-up courtesy of age, a complication, and a very conservative endocrinologist. I started spiro back on June 9, 2016 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,206382.msg1865940.html#msg1865940). After 11 days in (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,210571.msg1870527.html#msg1870527),I started noticing mental changes for the better.
On July 18 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,206382.msg1879565.html#msg1879565) I got the green light for estradiol via patch at a fractional dosage. By July 26 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,212595.msg1881995.html#msg1881995) I was noticing some additional changes. By August 20 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,212847.msg1890542.html#msg1890542) I was seeing incredible emotional and sensory changes. This is about when testosterone levels dropped below the normal male range, so not only was T being blocked, but production was significantly suppressed.
I'm just one example, and this is just anecdotal experience, but I suspect much of my improvement in mental health was from suppressing testosterone, and adding estradiol primarily served to restore my energy. Running on 'no hormones' is a pretty bland experience; I was still tired much of the time in looking through my old notes, until after I had gotten on estradiol at a reasonable dose, bloodwork still less than 50 pg/mL, but a dosage appropriate for a post-menopausal cisfemale.
I get very confused when I talk to people on here. Almost everyone says that they go on some kind of blocker first and later introduce Estradiol. My doctor is doing it the other way around. He told me that the estrogen is what will ease my dysphoria. The blocker would only have the effect of speeding up feminization due to blocking the T.
Quote from: Jayne01 on July 30, 2017, 09:21:41 AM
I'm confused, what changes are you referring to? I have not felt any changes.
Besides, my endocrinologist told me that estrogen is what will ease my dysphoria and my levels are now well within the female range.
I was responding to this that you said in the first page of this thread --
Quote from: Jayne01What I am feeling is a sense of calm and clearer thinking. I don't seem to get as angry at other drivers on the road. (Anyone who has driven in Sydney traffic would know what I mean about bad drivers). It feels like a fog is lifting and the world is becoming a little brighter. What has not changed is the desire to be female. That seems as strong as it has ever been.
I think Deborah described it perfectly. I can very much relate to those words.
Quotefrom: Deborah on July 25, 2017, 08:23:13 pm
What I called dysphoria was the feeling of depression, despair, and hopelessness that were leading to a frequent desire to be dead. HRT cured that. It did not cure the underlying issue. If being trans is what I believe it to be, an identity originating in the physicality of the brain, then HRT shouldn't be expected to erase that since it is simply who I was born to be. What the HRT does is relieve the disconnect of the brain having to reside in a foreign testosterone rich environment.
Something strange also happened this morning at work. I went to the bathroom and I looked in the mirror as I was washing my hands and I almost liked what I saw. It was a foreign feeling for me, but a feeling I can get used to. I saw my therapist yesterday for the first time in about 4 weeks and she said that my face looks a little different. My endocrinologist said the same thing when I saw him a few days ago. I have not noticed anything and neither has my wife, but I see myself everyday. However, this morning in the mirror, I might have seen a tiny difference in my face and I liked what I saw.
I also experienced that people who saw me daily, myself included didn't notice the thinner, more translucent skin we get as a result of hormonal shifts however people who I saw infrequently or acquaintances who saw me after 3+ months on HRT all noticed.
And I can see your confusion, different doctors will take different approaches and results will definitely vary even just based on individual as well as in response to different treatment.
Quote from: Jayne01 on July 30, 2017, 10:26:41 AM
I get very confused when I talk to people on here. Almost everyone says that they go on some kind of blocker first and later introduce Estradiol. My doctor is doing it the other way around. He told me that the estrogen is what will ease my dysphoria. The blocker would only have the effect of speeding up feminization due to blocking the T.
Don't worry about that. In fact, to the extent that it is possible, forget about HRT for 6-12 months. Recognize that much of what you read about HRT on this site is textbook confirmation bias and triumphalism. Journal, but don't write about your levels or try to ascribe any shift in mood to HRT. At 12 months, take inventory of your mental state and figure out if your are, on balance, better off than you were when you started. Consider the physical changes and consider whether you like them and hope for more, or if you feel weird about them and think you are disfiguring yourself. Decide if you want to renew therapy for a second year.
Ignore people who say that estrogen blisses them out. Do you really think that estrogen blisses out natal females? Think about how long it takes to make a girl into a woman and how much this has to do with lived experience. Distrust stereotypes. If you want to be more empathetic, read novels and lose yourself in characters. Don't force crying in hopes of feeling like a woman.
Embrace feminism. Read about male privilege and learn to recognize it, especially in yourself. Understand that whether you transition or not, male privilege absolutely, positively must go.
If you have aesthetic/artistic interest, pursue fashion. Don't dress like a teenager unless you are one. Wear clothes and makeup for you, not for anyone else.
Read great memoirs: Gender Outlaw, Becoming a Visible Man. Get to know 10-12 transpeople. Make sure that some of them are transmen. Figure out how you feel about them. Realize that this is largely dependent on how you feel about yourself. Cultivate compassion.
Examine your friends. How many of them are just like you? Fix that.
Take your time. Take your time. Take your time.
I agree with a lot of what rmaddy just said, confirmation bias and survivorship bias are huge in what you'll read here, as probably is placebo effect, so I certainly take accounts of women feeling very different after just a couple of days with some grains of salt.
On the other hand I will say that mood changes I saw inside of a couple of weeks seemed pretty solidly "real" and I absolutely saw my breasts increase in size within a surprisingly short 4 weeks.
The flip side is that some women will definitely be showing some irreversible physical changes at 6 months or even less such as breast growth. That's one of the reasons I wanted to decide whether to continue HRT within a couple of months and for me the emotional effects were clear and positive by then so that wasn't hard. As ever YMMV
Quote from: SadieBlake on July 30, 2017, 12:32:45 PM
I agree with a lot of what rmaddy just said, confirmation bias and survivorship bias are huge in what you'll read here, as probably is placebo effect, so I certainly take accounts of women feeling very different after just a couple of days with some grains of salt.
On the other hand I will say that mood changes I saw inside of a couple of weeks seemed pretty solidly "real" and I absolutely saw my breasts increase in size within a surprisingly short 4 weeks.
The flip side is that some women will definitely be showing some irreversible physical changes at 6 months or even less such as breast growth. That's one of the reasons I wanted to decide whether to continue HRT within a couple of months and for me the emotional effects were clear and positive by then so that wasn't hard. As ever YMMV
That was my hope too, but I don't think it can be done. The physical changes definitely come first.
Quote from: debrferguson on July 26, 2017, 11:43:23 PM
At some point before any medical intervention, I made a scale to measure my distress and document in my journal. I would never call it depression or hopelessness. For me it was a physical distress that existed in different levels of intensity:
1 - I can't believe I ever felt that way. That's stupid. I'm cured! The world is clear, the fog is gone, harmony, no dissonance (happens after sex)
2 - Not thinking about it at all, when I do I'm indifferent.
3 - Its there, but in the background. If I think about it, like white noise hissing faintly in my ears.
4 - Occasionally in the foreground, but I can push it to the background.
5 - In the foreground, but I can work through it. A little edgy.
6 - Occasionally distracting, but if I focus on something else, I can ignore it. Fairly edgy.
7 - Distracting. I want to do something. I feel compelled, but sometimes I can get through it.
8 - I need to cope. My 'bright passenger' needs attention.
9 - Nothing else matters. I HAVE to do something. I can't concentrate. Almost debilitating. I'll find anything to cope. I can barely fake normalcy.
10 - Completely debilitated.
Hi Deb, sorry to hijack this thread and I know you wrote this 4 days ago but this is a great post. I made a post on the main transgender talk subforum but I saw this and had to respond.
In my life I have always been somewhere on that spectrum as well. I would say after college when I became independent in 2012 is when I began to have serious desires. But even a short 5 years ago the transgender communities online were not what they were today. In late 2013 was the first time I actually thought transitioning could be something for me. But I fought it every step of the way. I would try to satisfy it with crossdressing and it made things worse. I tried to satisfy it with being ultra masculine and lifting heavy weights and such but that didn't work. I tried therapy and counseling and it didn't work. There would be temporary lapses where I was at "0" on your scale and wondered how I ever felt that way and would hate myself for ever having felt that way, but I would always end up climbing up the scale eventually.
I would go from 0 to 1, then 1 to 2, and then eventually buy clothes and makeup to crossdress with, would get to "10" on the scale, crossdress a little more, then purge it all, shame myself, think I was cured and be back to 0, and would be there for a few months, do ultra masculine things like heavy weight lifting and picking up women at bars to make up for it, and the cycle would repeat.
QuoteThat's a great observation. Gender Dysphoria has so many side effects.
I'd spent the previous decade plus trying to get healthy without meds. The result was that I had gotten a lot of the other junk out of my life and all that I had left was the chemistry problem.
i was a very reluctant traveler down this path. I loved my old life circumstances. I didn't want to upset them. So I fought really hard against going down this path.
Bingo. Took the words out of my mouth.
This time(after 4 or 5 expensive purge cycles in the past few years) I decided this isn't going away and its time to address it head on. Went to therapy, finally shed myself of the shame and guilt and realized for many years I have tried the natural, non medicine approach and it hasn't gotten me anywhere but out thousands of dollars from purging as well as endless anxiety and stress. I fought hard against going down the transition path but I am surrendering. I don't want to keep fighting that battle for the years to come with no end in sight.
So I started HRT 3 days ago. Leading up to making that decision I was at an 8+ on the scale for a few weeks running. When I got prescribed my horomones it was a 10. I was accidentially prescribed testosterone at first so when I went to pick it up at the pharmacy I was given the wrong meds. So I had to wait an extra day until the right prescription could be called in and those 24 hours were extremely stressful, it sent my dysphoria into overdrive and I was well past 10 on your scale. Simply because I had to wait and extra day to begin. I figured if I was that stressed over a short delay on beginning my HRT that definitely meant this was the right choice.
But I started 3 days ago and like you I dropped on the scale all the way down to the lower numbers like 2 or 3(haven't hit 1 yet and don't think I ever will again). I doubt any effects of the horomones so far could contribute but I think it has more to do with the fact that its no longer a fantasy, but reality and I am trying to come to terms with it. It's one thing to dream, its another to do.
I'm always thinking to myself, acting out dialogues I'll have with people in the future - I want to learn more about peoples' thought processes, too; does everyone chat to themselves like that, or are their minds just tabula rosa - rosae? Stupid Latin plurals. ::) Anyway, as far as I can remember, another feature of what goes on in my head is this voice that would chime in with some sarcastic criticism whenever I'd screw something up, even with something insignificant. This was nothing that ever really bothered me, after 46 years you just ignore things like that, as if you're living next to a stinky paper mill or something. What smell?
Thing is, after about a week of HRT this voice went away. I'd check every way I could think to make it come back - nothing. Was this just my imagination?
The other thing is, I had to go off hormones for about 3 weeks due to medical problems, which thankfully seem to be rectified. And what do you know, but Mr. Snide made a reappearance. Then I went back on HRT a few days ago - and he seems to be gone again. This is really extraordinary to me; I wish there were a way of proving that it isn't just my imagination. I'm not fervently worked up about going on HRT, it isn't the fulfillment of a lifelong dream like some - I had no idea I was TG until last year.
What do molecules recepting to create softer skin, increased appetite, and redistribution of fat have to do with ones' innermost thoughts? ???
Starting HRT way back in 2007 had no impact or effect on my transition. The thing that made the biggest impact was living full time...being out there...getting over my fears. First year I was always looking over my shoulder thinking someone was watching me or people were talking about me. It was total paranoia on my part.
Bottom line, HRT didn't make me who I am today or help me.
Best thing so far for me has been a new relationship with a kind of amazing man who's helping me accept myself and not be quite so afraid of the world...
But I must say that having just injected my first ever dose of estradiol into my thigh not 4 hours ago.... I feel lighter emotionally immediately. It's difficult to describe but I notice a sense of visceral relief at being able to feel my emotions with a little more clarity? Idk it's probably placebo.
Total non-sequitor, but there is a cat making the craziest noises outside in my neighborhood right now. Kitty!!!!
I'm so excited :x
First up their was the simple placebo effect of finally achieving a goal. Actual Physical effects started after a few weeks with slight increase in sensation and pain in my chest area. The mental calming effects started to really come in the 5th or 6th month. I know some experience this sooner but not for me.