okay one incident here but you know the way cis women cross their legs when sitting?
I badly want to do that. Its never even crossed my mind to do that but when sitting I think "thats the way I want to sit"
Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
Am I just subconciously conforming to female norms?
Quote from: MissKairi on August 02, 2017, 11:23:15 PM
okay one incident here but you know the way cis women cross their legs when sitting?
I badly want to do that. Its never even crossed my mind to do that but when sitting I think "thats the way I want to sit"
Has anyone else experienced anything like this?
Am I just subconciously conforming to female norms?
Ive always sat like that and got stuck for it.
But honestly do hormones change your mind?, I really don't think so.
Things like this are mostly traits people learn from young. I know some girls who would never sit with legs crossed
I agree with Rachel. These are traits that one learns. Some of us, like myself did many of those things we were young young naturally. Then around age 10 or 11 you tend to stop as you dont want to be made fun of for being ''gay'' or ''girly'' from male peers, even sometimes female peers. Then you try and stop.
Now, those things are back for me and I love them. Took time however to allow myself to do it on a regular basis, and to know it is ok to do it. HRT will feminize your apperence, and in a small small way may femininze other things that you want out of it. But assuming that is all true the E would then be high kicking your femininity that was there to begin with, not just make it happen out of the blue. So no, HRT will not back these things more natural to you, its something that you will have to allow youself to do starting now.
I don't think hormones had any effect on my behavior. I have always been very feminine by nature. The way I sit, move, walk,talk,etc has always been very feminine. So much so that my dad suspected I was trans rather than gay before I transitioned. But that's just me. Everyone is different.
Julia
I was at a community meeting yesterday of several dozen people. Most of the women were sitting with their legs crossed (or not crossed, but together). There were some incredibly beautiful and feminine women there. But there was also one woman who was sitting with her legs spread very wide, like a man. :) She had no makeup, a low voice, messy hair, and had an overall disheveled appearance. Not very attractive looking at all. But she was unmistakably a cis female who has had estrogen in her system her whole life.
Hormones certainly didn't make her act feminine, lol. And they won't make you act more feminine either. It's a choice that you actively make as to whether you want to conform to societal expectations for behavior.
I think cis-women generally keep legs together when wearing a skirt. In jeans, my observations would say - 50-50 and most women wear jeans these days...
Hi MissKairi. Seems like this and a lot of other stuff is just learned behaviour, as the others have said. Perhaps I've misunderstood, but it sounds like you're finding it difficult to sit that way? When I was starting a few weeks ago, it bothered me that women often sit with their legs crossed and I couldn't do it without squashing my bollocks uncomfortably. So, I started out with an easy-to-remember rule: don't cross your legs, but always, always keep your knees together when sitting down. You can spread your feet out a bit to make it easier. If you stick to that, and keep your elbows in, you can't go far wrong. (That said, I'm still getting male-gendered all the time, so maybe I'm talking rubbish.) After a week or two of this rule, I realised my, uh, man bits were getting kind of used to being a bit squashed between my legs, and I was able to cross my legs (still only one way, though) for ten minutes or so without a problem. Wearing tighter underwear has helped - however you sit, you're still squashing stuff down there, so you might as well sit like a lady.
It seems to have something to do with weight, though. I'm a fairly standard guy weight, but if I were thinner, I think I'd be able to cross my legs for longer. Anyway, sorry for the TMI and rambling, hopefully this helps.
In recent years, I've come to embrace the way that I stand.
Sailor Mars, you mentioned the ages 10-11 when people start to point these things out and make fun. That was definitely it for me too. I always put my hands on my hips and stuck a hip out. I love doing that. I also point my toes a lot. These are just natural movements for me, that were socially 'corrected' by the crowd when I was young.
I'm glad i'm older and more secure and can reclaim these poses.
Affect the way you act? No unfortunately that is learned and takes time and practice. Hours and hours of practice, It may give you mental stability you have never experienced before. It will affect the way you look. Slightly. FFS will make you look slightly better. It's a process that takes time, nothing happens over night. You can't throw on a dress and call yourself a woman. While I still do not believe I am a woman, I feel I can relate and understand things from a woman's point of view. As long as I have dangly parts I can never consider the job done. But I can cope with what my mind tells me and what by body parts suggest. It's been a lifetime battle but I found with counseling and inclusion into the transgender society that I am not alone. I do not have to suffer alone. Members of the community are just seeking human rights administered to other segments of society. WE and all alternate lifestyle proponents have to start rowing the boat together and stop the infighting.
You do not have to cross your legs, just cross your ankles. One thing I have observed is women tend to put left over right rather than right over left. Maybe I need to get out more. :laugh:
Quote from: MissKairi on August 02, 2017, 11:23:15 PM
okay one incident here but you know the way cis women cross their legs when sitting?
I badly want to do that. Its never even crossed my mind to do that but when sitting I think "thats the way I want to sit"
I want to be able to sit like that too, but my legs just don't move that way. My legs have always been thick and muscular which doesn't help.
The way I walk, sit in other ways, and some mannerisms always tended toward female, but I just can't cross my legs easily over one another.
I was in traffic the other day, and it was rush hour. I had a moment of clarity that the angry amd aggressive driving I was doing was out of habit. Because I *wasn't* feeling angry or aggressive. So it did not change my behavior, but it did suppress the anger response so I could knowingly choose to behave differently.
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"You do realize, this means you get to do character creation & the newbie zone all over again? :D"
I didnt think it changed the way but it still remains that when sitting in thr male crosslegged shape (one leg down other tucked over knee) I strongly want to do the full leg over.
Its very strange, my mind is so calm and clear and I FEEL more feminine if that makes sense.
I wonder if due to this calmness I am allowing myself to be myself rather than the great man posturing I still sometimes do to fit in.
Quote from: Tommi on August 03, 2017, 01:33:24 PM
I was in traffic the other day, and it was rush hour. I had a moment of clarity that the angry amd aggressive driving I was doing was out of habit. Because I *wasn't* feeling angry or aggressive. So it did not change my behavior, but it did suppress the anger response so I could knowingly choose to behave differently.
I definitely agree with this. I've been on low dose E for about a year. I use to be very quick to anger. I use to drive rather aggressively. Now I'm much easier going.
As for mannerisms, I sort of agree they can be learned. I also remember standing a lot with one hip out. I use to walk with my knees in more. I use to carry my books for school on my chest with two hands. All these things I got chastised for and so I stopped doing it. The thing is they all came naturally but I did learn how to stop doing them.
Now I find when I naturally let my knees go in a bit I feel my more secure on my feet. I also notice I have a bit of a hip sway because of it.
Take care,
Paige :)
Quote from: MissKairi on August 03, 2017, 01:56:33 PM
I wonder if due to this calmness I am allowing myself to be myself rather than the great man posturing I still sometimes do to fit in.
I think you hit the nail on the head there. Like many others mentioned, I have a lot of female mannerisms that had to be unlearned (hip out with hands on the hips, for example). There were a few that I never got rid of, however, and I like to use them to kind of "clue" those around me in to my being transgender, without coming out and saying it. For instance, it's very easy for me to cross my legs tightly together, and I have done it for years. I actually cross my legs in both ways without thinking about it, until my legs go numb, lol.
But think of it like this: You are you. If the hormones changed the way you behaved, then, would you still be you?
I love who I am on the inside, all I want is for my outside to match that.
~Love, Ashley <3
I don't think hormones do it. I think if you are trans feminine, that you spend your life watching other women, learning just like cis girls do. When you finally accept yourself and become open to being real. Those silently learned behaviors are finally freed.
That's seems to be the way it has been for me. Sitting legs crossed seems natural that I sometimes have had to think about not doing it in the wrong situation. That's becoming less of an issue for me these days.
Pelvic tilt, Might make sitting like this feels more comfortable.
Also if you feel more feminine sitting like that, it could also be that the hormones might cause you to feel more confident in feminine expressive.
Do i think the hrt is going it? no. But maybe a result of a side effect of a side effect. just a thought.
When I drive wearing heels, my feet just sit so that it accelerate and break car very aggressively. When I am not wearing heels, I most often am the slowest accelerator on the road.
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On my third injection, I can say I get a little bitchy towards the end of my dose, it's definitely a different feeling than pre-hrt in a bad mood... It hasn't changed the way I deal with it, suck it up and just be nice, lol. As far as changing innate behavior in other ways, certainly not directly, but it'll change your appearance, reconfigure your body, I can see that changing what positions are comfortable as well as how other people see and treat you, both of those will have an effect on your behavior on some level, presumably there's not really such a thing as thinking like a man/woman, we all think like humans, and respond to our environmental stimuli in similar ways.
Magic girl pills do nothing for your mannerisms, unfortunately. Transition is hard work, every day proves it to me. So much work in fact, I'd think if you aren't trans and making a mistake, all that work will dissuade you from continuing. Those that are, it reenergizes them and helps them move along. But it does seem to be a common question for those beginning. Your mannerisms and presentation are all on you and involve dedication and practice if you've already lived any appreciable amount of your life as a male.
Hormones do not make you act female. I was born with those hormones in my system and I can vouch for the fact that they never made me acquire female mannerisms. Most mannerisms are socially learned and enforced.
Growing up, I would never cross my legs. I was sure it would out me. But then I noticed all the old men at church did it. I figured if the God Squad could get away with it then so could i.
My hormone profile is naturally more female than male. A doctor put me on T therapy one time to try to fix it, but too many side effects made him take me off of it. Lucky girl. :icon_female: I'm not very masculine looking and not hairy, so I don't know if HT will do that much for me. Any ways, I had to work at not having feminine mannerisms and the way I speak my whole life. I would often slip up and get busted. Everyone thought, oh, well, he's gay. That seemed more acceptable than being transgender. Now, I can just let me be my girl self and cross my legs when I sit, which comes naturally, and all that stuff. I used to catch myself sitting like that and go, oh, crap, and uncross them to be more "manly". I guess we're all different. Yaay for that!
In my experience, hormones do not give you female mannerisms. that requires hard work. What they might do is give you the confidence to pursue those traits we most associate with females. And a confident person always projects a satisfaction with what they are doing.
Psychologically they certainly can, but in terms of physical habits, I don't think so. I think women generally pick up "female habits" and mannerisms from their female peers or family members, quite often consciously. I remember lots of school conversations in which my female peers would discuss ways of walking or acting that were "better" because they viewed them as feminine, and then they would go and do them. They would talk about beauty products and then go and buy them on each others' recommendation. Their process of becoming more feminine as they grew up seemed to me to be very deliberate, calculated and conscious.
Since I did not see myself as one of them, I had no desire to emulate any of their behavior, and so I didn't. I had their hormones, but that did nothing toward making me physically act like them. The psychological effects of estrogens did make me more socially conscious, more self-conscious, more anxious, and slightly more fearful of my safety, but none of that was really much of a match for the male aspect of my psyche which typically always won out over that sort of thing. Such as, I might have been more aware of personal danger, but that didn't stop me going out alone at night all the time, for example. I might have had some latent background sense of fear, but I also had no fear at all.
So... no I think the hormones will take care of the psychological details for you, but you are going to have to learn how to move in a more feminine way, learn female mannerisms and habits, and so on. Which you can pick up from some friendly girl talk, or observation and practice. Girls often do this as they're growing up, trying things out and experimenting with their feminine presentation. Some of them don't go in for the leg-crossing, others do, and lots of other things besides... there's plenty of personal and conscious choice involved in a female's presentation of herself, I think, and as we know as a female, you can have a pretty wide repertoire to choose from and still be considered feminine.
(Leg-crossing thing is pure habit. For a few years in my teens I used to do it because I found it more comfortable than just sitting there with legs together. It was just a matter of doing it enough times it becomes comfortable and natural. These days I almost never do it; it's uncomfortable physically for me to do it for some reason. It didn't take long to adopt other ways of sitting.)
When I was quite young I developed a habit of crossing my legs in a feminine way. Because of my long girly legs the boys (and others) would crack jokes about my the way it came across. I worked too hard to effect a more masculine posture when sitting but could rarely pull it off very well. Now I don't care and cross all the time. I don't thing HRT had any effect on me in this way. Maybe for others, but I just naturally feel right when I sit this way. I know how it looks but now I'm often just too tired to give a damn....