Well I wouldn't say my mom is fully accepting but she has definitely accepted the fact that, I gotta do what I have to do, my mom knows I have a therapist and she also so knows I will be starting T real soon. Here's the thing, I am already seen as a black male by society but when the Testostrone starts kicking in obviously it will cause even greater changes and I'll be honest the thought of getting pulled over by a cop scares me, which is my mom's thing, there is alot of police brutality and unfair treatment of people of color going in the world today and not only that I I have had my fair share of experiences with racist people and I understand my moms point but I am obviously not gonna let it stop me but it's still a scary experience and I have to talk to my therapist about it because my mom wants me to but I am afraid he will not understand because he is white, matter of fact I know he won't because it's a whole different experience. Idk it sometimes bugs me and I realize I have to be alot more cautious especially now. Now I present myself in a good manner but I am still the N word to racist white people, don't say its how you present yourself because, I am tired of hearing that. I guess this is more of a rant in a sense but I don't know how to go about talking to my therapist about that.
Just because he's white doesn't mean he won't understand. You don't need to be the same race or color as someone to understand their struggles, you just need to have empathy. If your therapist lacks empathy then I suggest you get a new one because a therapist who can't empathize with their clients and help them can't do their job.
Your mom is right, Brandon. Statistically you're in for a life with more hurdles put in front of you. But you're transgender, and like all of us you're used to uphill struggles. You're a fighter, and you know that if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. Be smart, be safe, and you'll be fine. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
Brandon,
What your Mom fears is a sad reality of our society. You are smart to be cautious and if the therapist doesn't see that, they are probably not helpful to you. I have gotten just a taste of that reality going from white male to trans female. I am also an atheist but that is not visible. I think you have to live life but you have to be smart about the situations you put yourself in if possible. I have expressed that thought to people I know and they don't get it. I can't say I fully understand your situation, but I do wish you the best. I grew up in the hippy days and back then I had hopes that the hateful attitudes would disappear. I was naive.
Moni
Aside from racial profiling, males get profiled in general. People did not give me a second look back when I looked female, now they watch me more as if they think I'm more likely to be aggressive or to steal something just by virtue of looking male. You have to accept that aspect and not necessarily put that down to racism.
The racism is becoming more of an issue too. There are people both on the left and the right on the political spectrum determined to create more race issues than we already have. There are people in the UK trying to stoke the fires too. You will just have to be extra vigilant and aware of your surroundings, and try to avoid what looks like trouble.
Becoming a black male has its challenges indeed. But I have to be honest I have had absolutely no issues at all. A lot of it has to do with how you carry yourself, demeanor, how you speak and dress etc. If you look and act like a thug you'll be treated as such. Not trying to simplify it or belittle those that have had issues. Just my experience. I'd say the privilege I have gained as a male in a patriarchal society far outweighs the challenge of being black and male.
Having said all of that be careful. With police. With white women. So many little things you have to think about. I was house hunting a year or so ago and my friend is a cis white female. We saw a house for sale as we were walking. She wanted to run up and peek inside the windows. I refused. A black man in a nice suburban area looking into the windows of a house?! Oh hell naw. As I type this I am waiting in my car for a friend to have lunch at a restaurant. I am keen on not doing anything that may be deemed suspicious by the white folks out and about. Stuff I shouldn't have to worry about but I do. Especially in the politcal climate we are in today.
So be smart and ne careful. You'll be just fine.
Unfortunately you're right. There is still a lot if racism. My dad has answered calls about suspicious behavior. When he asks what the individual was doing that was suspicious they will say "well he was black and walking real slow through the neighborhood ". I'm not even going to try to say the police don't do racial profiling. It happens a lot. My dad doesn't do it, he's equally suspicious of everyone, but a lot of the officers he knows do. Even officers who are African American themselves! They call it guilty of driving while black. And Viktor is totally right, males in general do get profiled. Unfortunately people aren't evolved enough to overcome prejudice and hate.
Julia
When dealing with the police, it's always important to be relaxed and respectful. In addition, keep your hand visible and if you are in a car, keep them on the steering wheel until they are needed for something else. As long as an officer knows they are in control of the situation the won't be nervous and as long as they aren't nervous, problems won't occur. These rules apply to me as well so don't feel you are being targeted. Many of the things you read about in the paper were the result of somebody not following these rules causing things to get out of control. The problem is the full story only comes after a detain investigation and often that's not printed in the paper.
Quote from: Contravene on August 06, 2017, 06:20:34 AM
Just because he's white doesn't mean he won't understand. You don't need to be the same race or color as someone to understand their struggles, you just need to have empathy. If your therapist lacks empathy then I suggest you get a new one because a therapist who can't empathize with their clients and help them can't do their job.
Well in all honesty if you have never been through it, you can't speak on it, you can only imagine or place yourself in that persons shoes, which is still hard sometimes at least for me but I can empathize with others and the only thing is, there are only 2 therapist in the city I am from that works with gender so, I'd be stuck there but I am very close to getting my letter, so it wouldn't really be an issue.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on August 06, 2017, 07:30:36 AM
Your mom is right, Brandon. Statistically you're in for a life with more hurdles put in front of you. But you're transgender, and like all of us you're used to uphill struggles. You're a fighter, and you know that if it doesn't kill you, it makes you stronger. Be smart, be safe, and you'll be fine. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
Thank you I appreciate that and I know I am a fighter, I think all of us have come a long way but I always try my hardest to not out myself in dumb situations. I try to be smart.
Quote from: HappyMoni on August 06, 2017, 08:52:23 AM
Brandon,
What your Mom fears is a sad reality of our society. You are smart to be cautious and if the therapist doesn't see that, they are probably not helpful to you. I have gotten just a taste of that reality going from white male to trans female. I am also an atheist but that is not visible. I think you have to live life but you have to be smart about the situations you put yourself in if possible. I have expressed that thought to people I know and they don't get it. I can't say I fully understand your situation, but I do wish you the best. I grew up in the hippy days and back then I had hopes that the hateful attitudes would disappear. I was naive.
Moni
I get it and that makes since, that's why I don't hang out with people that are bad influences and alot of the reason why I keep to myself but I always try to be smart about who I am with and my surroundings and all that.
Quote from: Julia1996 on August 06, 2017, 12:21:14 PM
Unfortunately you're right. There is still a lot if racism. My dad has answered calls about suspicious behavior. When he asks what the individual was doing that was suspicious they will say "well he was black and walking real slow through the neighborhood ". I'm not even going to try to say the police don't do racial profiling. It happens a lot. My dad doesn't do it, he's equally suspicious of everyone, but a lot of the officers he knows do. Even officers who are African American themselves! They call it guilty of driving while black. And Viktor is totally right, males in general do get profiled. Unfortunately people aren't evolved enough to overcome prejudice and hate.
Julia
I wish all the hate would stop, I mean we all bleed red at the end of the day, I never understood it, it's just skin tones that are different and I am glad your dad is equally suspicious of everyone because every race is capable of doing some crazy things and you know I don't think all cops are bad, there are some good ones out there.
Quote from: Viktor on August 06, 2017, 10:38:25 AM
Aside from racial profiling, males get profiled in general. People did not give me a second look back when I looked female, now they watch me more as if they think I'm more likely to be aggressive or to steal something just by virtue of looking male. You have to accept that aspect and not necessarily put that down to racism.
The racism is becoming more of an issue too. There are people both on the left and the right on the political spectrum determined to create more race issues than we already have. There are people in the UK trying to stoke the fires too. You will just have to be extra vigilant and aware of your surroundings, and try to avoid what looks like trouble.
I understand males in general get profiled but it is still harder on African Americans or any of one that's of color but I do see your point and I always try to be aware of my surroundings and what looks like trouble.
Quote from: CMD042414 on August 06, 2017, 11:29:02 AM
Becoming a black male has its challenges indeed. But I have to be honest I have had absolutely no issues at all. A lot of it has to do with how you carry yourself, demeanor, how you speak and dress etc. If you look and act like a thug you'll be treated as such. Not trying to simplify it or belittle those that have had issues. Just my experience. I'd say the privilege I have gained as a male in a patriarchal society far outweighs the challenge of being black and male.
Having said all of that be careful. With police. With white women. So many little things you have to think about. I was house hunting a year or so ago and my friend is a cis white female. We saw a house for sale as we were walking. She wanted to run up and peek inside the windows. I refused. A black man in a nice suburban area looking into the windows of a house?! Oh hell naw. As I type this I am waiting in my car for a friend to have lunch at a restaurant. I am keen on not doing anything that may be deemed suspicious by the white folks out and about. Stuff I shouldn't have to worry about but I do. Especially in the politcal climate we are in today.
So be smart and ne careful. You'll be just fine.
And see I do try to carry myself in a respectful manner as well as how I speak, so while I agree with that to in extent, you got some people that still don't care how you present. Oh yes I know the rules as far as police goes and I get the dealing with white women thing to. That story kind of funny though but I feel you man, its all about being smart about things.
Quote from: Dena on August 06, 2017, 01:27:21 PM
When dealing with the police, it's always important to be relaxed and respectful. In addition, keep your hand visible and if you are in a car, keep them on the steering wheel until they are needed for something else. As long as an officer knows they are in control of the situation the won't be nervous and as long as they aren't nervous, problems won't occur. These rules apply to me as well so don't feel you are being targeted. Many of the things you read about in the paper were the result of somebody not following these rules causing things to get out of control. The problem is the full story only comes after a detain investigation and often that's not printed in the paper.
I have to disagree, let's say and officer wanted my licence and registration, see I would have to explain to an officer that I have to grab my wallet d registration to put my hands down without them assuming I am going for a gun, I can't say you would and that's from what I have seen and even then I think the conversations that black parents have with their kids about these things are different from white parents, which goes to show you we live in a messed up world, I have had that talk with my parents and when I have kids I will have to explain that to them and I find it sad that I will have to tell my son, hey some police officers might not like you because of your skin tone or what not or that you are a target. My mom and dad have both told me I am target becaue of my race and black men are targets and its not even just men anymore its the women too. I don't believe that everyone of those people we read about deserved to be killed tbh. They did use accessive force my oppinion but as I have stated I do try to remain smart about the situations I put myself in.
My Goddaughter is black. She is also one of the most beautiful people I know. Not physically, although she is stunning. But her heart is beautiful. I met her mother 35 years ago and we have been close ever since. I honestly don't see what the fear is. On top of your being black you have an alternative lifestyle. Unfortunately there are haters of all stripes. I have seen the racial remarks to her and I know them to be untrue but hurtful none the less. But I have also seen it only makes her stronger. Depend on your inner strength. I am impressed by your quote and so glad you still feel that way. keep working hard and you can get anything you want. -Aaliyah You will break down barriers. Maybe a little slower than you desire but it will happen. More than luck I wish you a happy fulfilled life as the person you have struggled to be. Hey, Jesus more than likely had dark skin too. For sure he didn't have blond hair and blue eyes.
All the best
Dawn
Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 01:55:32 PM
I have to disagree, let's say and officer wanted my licence and registration, see I would have to explain to an officer that I have to grab my wallet d registration to put my hands down without them assuming I am going for a gun,
I need to play by the same rules. For all the officer knows, I could be high on drugs or I want to shoot a police officer. If I were in a traffic stop, I would place my keys and wallet on the dash board then place my hands on the wheel and wait for the officer. If I were on the street, I would wait for the officer to ask for my ID, then tell him where it is before going for it. In the end, all the officer wants to do is go home at the end of the day in one piece and if they know they are in control of the situation, they won't do anything that will endanger you.
A bad attitude will get you into trouble when dealing with the police. They have a job to do and if you don't cooperate they will do what is needed to complete their job. You can bet that they know the law better than you do and if they don't, that's for a judge to decide.
Yes, I know about the beatings and mostly they occurred because the stop was legitimate but things got out of control and the officers went way over the line. In other cases the officers did what they needed to do in order to stay alive. Let the officers do their job and at the end of the day, both of you will go home in one piece.
sorry you have to deal with this I really have no answers for you because it can be nasty out there.
Quote from: Dena on August 06, 2017, 02:45:26 PM
I need to play by the same rules. For all the officer knows, I could be high on drugs or I want to shoot a police officer. If I were in a traffic stop, I would place my keys and wallet on the dash board then place my hands on the wheel and wait for the officer. If I were on the street, I would wait for the officer to ask for my ID, then tell him where it is before going for it. In the end, all the officer wants to do is go home at the end of the day in one piece and if they know they are in control of the situation, they won't do anything that will endanger you.
A bad attitude will get you into trouble when dealing with the police. They have a job to do and if you don't cooperate they will do what is needed to complete their job. You can bet that they know the law better than you do and if they don't, that's for a judge to decide.
Yes, I know about the beatings and mostly they occurred because the stop was legitimate but things got out of control and the officers went way over the line. In other cases the officers did what they needed to do in order to stay alive. Let the officers do their job and at the end of the day, both of you will go home in one piece.
Dena is right. I'm obviously not a cop but I can share some things my dad has told me. When a cop pulls someone over they are totally on guard. Keep your hands where they can be seen. Don't reach for anything unless the officer asks you to. You kind of have to think of the situation from the officers point of view. They don't know if someone is going to pull out a gun and blow them away as they approach the car. Lots of police officers have been killed that way. Acting fidgety is going to raise their suspicion. Being rude and insulting will just make things worse for yourself. Cops are just people. If you piss them off or insult them they will make sure to make things as hard for you as possible. Resisting physically will get you a face full of pepper spray or you will get tazered.
Julia
Life is hard and then you die. What you do in between is what will define your existence. Make your way and be mindful of what other men face in every given situation. Make smart decisions and hope for the best. I trust you'll be okay if you follow your heart and use your brain.
It might help you to study body language and adopt certain kinds of body language when out and about that mean you aren't giving off defensive or aggressive signals that could lead to attracting the wrong sort of attention. I was unwittingly giving out a lot of hostility in the past through body language because I was legitimately feeling threatened just being outside and near others - it was obvious to them but not to me, even though I had no actual hostile intentions. And they would notice and comment on it, or follow me around stores until I left. The "head down" posture for example, which I was doing because I didn't want to look at people or into their eyes doubles for some as the sort of gesture people pull when up to no good. You want to avoid that, so you could look into how body language works for you and how to give out good vibes when dealing with people. And I think you'll have better luck if you know how to make it work for you.
Quote from: DawnOday on August 06, 2017, 02:12:40 PM
My Goddaughter is black. She is also one of the most beautiful people I know. Not physically, although she is stunning. But her heart is beautiful. I met her mother 35 years ago and we have been close ever since. I honestly don't see what the fear is. On top of your being black you have an alternative lifestyle. Unfortunately there are haters of all stripes. I have seen the racial remarks to her and I know them to be untrue but hurtful none the less. But I have also seen it only makes her stronger. Depend on your inner strength. I am impressed by your quote and so glad you still feel that way. keep working hard and you can get anything you want. -Aaliyah You will break down barriers. Maybe a little slower than you desire but it will happen. More than luck I wish you a happy fulfilled life as the person you have struggled to be. Hey, Jesus more than likely had dark skin too. For sure he didn't have blond hair and blue eyes.
All the best
Dawn
I don't believe Jesus had blonde hair and blue eyes either lol, I am glad you know the truth. I consider myself a very strong person for someone that is a young adult I been through alot but ike your daughter all that is has done for me is make me stronger, had I not gone through what I have been through, I wouldn't be the man I am today, I have grown tremendously, ah and yes I still love that quote and I still believe it but perhaps you are righ maybe I shouldn't fear so much. I am a smart person and as I have stated I do try to put myself in smart situations and not dumb ones.
Brandon, your mother is correct. Being black is dangerous, but being a black male is the most dangerous.
One black transmale said that police suddenly became hostile to her the moment she started presenting as male. One white transmale said that suddenly mothers were hiding their children if he forgot he was presenting as male and smiled at a baby.
White people who say that if you obey the rules you'll be OK are only speaking from their white privilege bubble.
Even looking "ethnic" can get you in trouble, and I constantly read about black people who are shot for simply being black, with police body cams now showing them planting drugs and guns on their victims.
My nephew, who has dark hair and Latino features was pulled over for "speeding" while driving in the south and accused and harassed by the officer. My nephew is an upper class concert pianist, but it didn't matter.
But it does no good to tell white people that..they are blind to their privilege and usually only become defensive and angry.
But if you can't find a black therapist, that can't be helped, unless maybe you can do a google search to find someone and are willing to travel.
My ex-husband is white, 6' 1", handsome, fit, from a wealthy background, an ex-Navy and airline pilot, and the revered oldest son in his Republican family, yet last year he casually told me he was going to transition to present as nonbinary female. He had never even hinted at such tendencies when we were together, even when I asked him directly.
He was off-hand and casual about it, talking like all there is to being female is learning to apply make up and buying cool clothing. None of my warnings have made the slightest impression on him, but I guess he'll find out for himself what will happen to his life of white male privilege. He'll still be tall, fit, and white, but my guess is he'll get a dim welcome from his relatives and current wife.
But I can't tell him anything. He thinks it's all fun and games, because up until now, everyone has honored him.
I learned one trick and it saved my ass from a ticket (or worse) a couple of times. When you see lights behind your car, first thing turn the lights in the salon on, then keep your hands on the wheel. When officer sees you (and anybody else inside the car, or lack of anybody as usually is the case), he approaches you easier and it puts him in a better mood. Don't admit speeding, but be totally polite and friendly towards the officer. I got a few warnings this way instead of ...
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Quote from: Raell on August 06, 2017, 08:55:43 PM
Brandon, your mother is correct. Being black is dangerous, but being a black male is the most dangerous.
One black transmale said that police suddenly became hostile to her the moment she started presenting as male. One white transmale said that suddenly mothers were hiding their children if he forgot he was presenting as male and smiled at a baby.
White people who say that if you obey the rules you'll be OK are only speaking from their white privilege bubble.
Even looking "ethnic" can get you in trouble, and I constantly read about black people who are shot for simply being black, with police body cams now showing them planting drugs and guns on their victims.
My nephew, who has dark hair and Latino features was pulled over for "speeding" while driving in the south and accused and harassed by the officer. My nephew is an upper class concert pianist, but it didn't matter.
But it does no good to tell white people that..they are blind to their privilege and usually only become defensive and angry.
But if you can't find a black therapist, that can't be helped, unless maybe you can do a google search to find someone and are willing to travel.
My ex-husband is white, 6' 1", handsome, fit, from a wealthy background, an ex-Navy and airline pilot, and the revered oldest son in his Republican family, yet last year he casually told me he was going to transition to present as nonbinary female. He had never even hinted at such tendencies when we were together, even when I asked him directly.
He was off-hand and casual about it, talking like all there is to being female is learning to apply make up and buying cool clothing. None of my warnings have made the slightest impression on him, but I guess he'll find out for himself what will happen to his life of white male privilege. He'll still be tall, fit, and white, but my guess is he'll get a dim welcome from his relatives and current wife.
But I can't tell him anything. He thinks it's all fun and games, because up until now, everyone has honored him.
See you get it, I don't think people realize white privilege exist and then you have people who know it exist but ignore it, I don't agree with follow all rules and you be safe, obviously I will follow all rules and instructions but it still doesn't change the fact that anything can happen. Yes even being, not even just black but mixed or latino, can get you in trouble and I tend not to argue with people about White privilege because of exactly what you said, they become defensive and I agree with that last part, there lots of things that come with being a man or woman, its not fun and games.
Quote from: Julia1996 on August 06, 2017, 03:36:18 PMCops are just people. If you piss them off or insult them they will make sure to make things as hard for you as possible. Resisting physically will get you a face full of pepper spray or you will get tazered.
Julia
Cops certainly are just people. Which means white cops can be total hate filled racists too. All it takes is a racist cop who absolutely despises black people, especially black men. I truly believe that there are racist cops that get off on abusing black men. I really do. They love that they can put us in our place and actually want a reason to hurt and yes kill us. And I believe this for the exact reason you mentioned, cops are just people.
My issue is when white Americans are incredulous to the idea that a cop can in fact hate black people. As if somehow because he has a uniform and a badge he is magically a superhero upstanding human being. Nope. There are ->-bleeped-<- civilians and there are ->-bleeped-<- cops. Thousands of them. And I wouldn't be surprised if the police profession is attractive to them partly because they can harass and threaten black men. And i say this as someone who always had positive interactions with police. But I see and hear what other brothas go through. I am lighter skinned and wear glasses too. Makes a big difference. Ever notice that almost all of the high profile police brutality cases are darker skinned black men? Not a coincidence people!
When I decided to transition, it suddenly hit me that I will be a African-American man, and all that ensues. I talked about this fact to my therapist, a African-American woman who understands what its like to often be seen as a "color" first and as a person second in America.
I remember my Mom giving my brothers a talk on how to act towards the police and authority figures in general years ago when we were still teenagers. I don't remember the details, so I went to google to see what I could find. I found this article:
http://madamenoire.com/562292/straight-from-a-cops-mouth-10-tips-for-young-black-men-dealing-with-police/
As an African-American, I'm already used to standing in the middle of aisles when I go to stores, being acknowledged by racist store staff who ask me "may I help you," yet ignore my non-threatening genderfluid boyfriend simply because he presents as a middle-aged white woman with a cane. I realise that this "special attention" is what racists often do as a way to say "I have my eye on you" while I'm in their store. Sure, that might simply be someone honestly wanting to help, but if that's so, why ignore my boyfriend as he walks down the aisle near me?
I also make sure that I no longer smile at babies, small children and especially women for fear of being perceived as a pedophile or some kind of pervert. Its a sad fact of life that the smile I usually wear for the simple joy of being alive is now often seen as threatening in some way.
It seems that only people of color, and especially men of color can truly understand what its like to ALWAYS be perceived as a threat, even when we're simply driving down the street. My little brother (6'3" and 300lbs) stopped driving in a certain suburb they often had to drive through. He got tired of being stopped time and time again whenever he was in the car, so his blond-haired white ex-wife would drive. Time and time again they were pulled over and harrassed by the local cops. I remember her telling us she would get mad at the cop whenever they asked to see their licenses. Usually the cop would first taking her aside and ask "are you alright ma'am?" She would say "of course I am, he's my husband!" She might have been only 5'4" or so tall, but she was a spitfire!
I understand where you are coming from, Brandon. Its sad that in 2017 we as men of color still have to worry about how we are perceived.
Don't give up hope. Not all cops are racists towards people of color. I can say this as a fact. My younger sister is a Homicide cop. ☺
Ryuichi
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Quote from: CMD042414 on August 06, 2017, 11:06:28 PM
Cops certainly are just people. Which means white cops can be total hate filled racists too. All it takes is a racist cop who absolutely despises black people, especially black men. I truly believe that there are racist cops that get off on abusing black men. I really do. They love that they can put us in our place and actually want a reason to hurt and yes kill us. And I believe this for the exact reason you mentioned, cops are just people.
My issue is when white Americans are incredulous to the idea that a cop can in fact hate black people. As if somehow because he has a uniform and a badge he is magically a superhero upstanding human being. Nope. There are ->-bleeped-<- civilians and there are ->-bleeped-<- cops. Thousands of them. And I wouldn't be surprised if the police profession is attractive to them partly because they can harass and threaten black men. And i say this as someone who always had positive interactions with police. But I see and hear what other brothas go through. I am lighter skinned and wear glasses too. Makes a big difference. Ever notice that almost all of the high profile police brutality cases are darker skinned black men? Not a coincidence people!
Now I strongly agree with you on every point you made and see I know not all cops are bad but people deny that there are in fact racist cops and we black men are in trouble because it is only going to get worse.
Quote from: Ryuichi13 on August 06, 2017, 11:18:20 PM
When I decided to transition, it suddenly hit me that I will be a African-American man, and all that ensues. I talked about this fact to my therapist, a African-American woman who understands what its like to often be seen as a "color" first and as a person second in America.
I remember my Mom giving my brothers a talk on how to act towards the police and authority figures in general years ago when we were still teenagers. I don't remember the details, so I went to google to see what I could find. I found this article:
http://madamenoire.com/562292/straight-from-a-cops-mouth-10-tips-for-young-black-men-dealing-with-police/
As an African-American, I'm already used to standing in the middle of aisles when I go to stores, being acknowledged by racist store staff who ask me "may I help you," yet ignore my non-threatening genderfluid boyfriend simply because he presents as a middle-aged white woman with a cane. I realise that this "special attention" is what racists often do as a way to say "I have my eye on you" while I'm in their store. Sure, that might simply be someone honestly wanting to help, but if that's so, why ignore my boyfriend as he walks down the aisle near me?
I also make sure that I no longer smile at babies, small children and especially women for fear of being perceived as a pedophile or some kind of pervert. Its a sad fact of life that the smile I usually wear for the simple joy of being alive is now often seen as threatening in some way.
I understand where you are coming from, Brandon. Its sad that in 2017 we as men of color still have to worry about how we are perceived.
Don't give up hope. Not all cops are racists towards people of color. I can say this as a fact. My younger sister is a Homicide cop. ☺
Ryuichi
Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
I didn't hit me until my mom and dad understood that I identify as a black male and am one, thats when they started having those talks with me and its like damn, I shouldn't have to have this conversation but you right I know not all cops are bad and I am glad you understand man!
Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 11:31:59 PM
I didn't hit me until my mom and dad understood that I identify as a black male and am one, thats when they started having those talks with me and its like damn, I shouldn't have to have this conversation but you right I know not all cops are bad and I am glad you understand man!
Dude, you might want to re-read my post. I added to it after I posted it! [emoji29][emoji16]
Yeah, I get ya man. Just remember to be polite whenever you're dealing with cops, and do whatever they say. And never, NEVER argue back! Remember, they have guns and badges and you don't!
Ryuichi
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Quote from: Brandon on August 06, 2017, 01:28:19 PM
Well in all honesty if you have never been through it, you can't speak on it, you can only imagine or place yourself in that persons shoes, which is still hard sometimes at least for me but I can empathize with others and the only thing is, there are only 2 therapist in the city I am from that works with gender so, I'd be stuck there but I am very close to getting my letter, so it wouldn't really be an issue.
No therapist has been through everything that their clients have, they shouldn't need to be. I don't have many gender therapists in my area either so I understand your dilemma in not having the option to see someone else though.
My future brother in-law is black and sometimes I'm terrified for him because even back when I was presenting as a white female the cops treated me like garbage despite the whole "cops don't persecute white females" myth so I can only imagine how they would treat him as a young black male. Luckily, he doesn't live in my city where the majority of police and the local government is corrupt. Where he lives the police know him and the rest of the family and are friendly with them.
I suggest getting to know the police in your area. In some areas the police and fire departments run charity events and things like that. If they do that where you live it might be a good idea to go to them and support your local police force or at least make yourself known to them in a positive way.
Other than that, sadly, the best advice I have is to treat the police as if they're criminals trying to harm you rather than the ones who are supposed to be protecting you from the bad guys. If you have a car consider getting a dashcam. If you're pulled over or stopped while you're walking tell the officer what you're going to do before you take action. For example: "I'm unarmed, I'm going to remove my hands from my pockets now" then do so. Narrate your actions like that.
Try not to let a cop confront you in an isolated or remote area, always try to be in a public space where there are witnesses. That one might be difficult because it depends on where you get stopped at but if you can, try to pull over at a gas station or somewhere like that rather than just on the side of the road in front of the gas station for example. A real cop won't mind if you drive the extra few feet to get to a safe place to pull over.
The suggestion to learn body language is a good idea too.
Can't there be a black racist cops who just love to harass white people? Don't listen to your brothas too much. Don't look like a trouble and the trouble would not look for you.
As far as a 'racist' 'how can I help you' - it's something new in racial science... Next time a black clerk asks me that, I'll tell him it's racism to ask that question to white customers...
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Quote from: elkie-t on August 07, 2017, 06:52:26 AM
Can't there be a black racist cops who just love to harass white people? Don't listen to your brothas too much. Don't look like a trouble and the trouble would not look for you.
As far as a 'racist' 'how can I help you' - it's something new in racial science... Next time a black clerk asks me that, I'll tell him it's racism to ask that question to white customers...
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Of course there are racist black cops that don't like white people. But how many of those interactions result in the white person being killed at the hand of the black cop.
Quote from: elkie-t on August 07, 2017, 06:52:26 AM
Can't there be a black racist cops who just love to harass white people? Don't listen to your brothas too much. Don't look like a trouble and the trouble would not look for you.
As far as a 'racist' 'how can I help you' - it's something new in racial science... Next time a black clerk asks me that, I'll tell him it's racism to ask that question to white customers...
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Honestly speaking, sure, that is a possibility, but you rarely hear about a black cop shooting an unarmed white man.
And fwiw, I definitely do not present as a "brotha."
"The racist how may I help you" isn't anything new. It something that, unless you've experienced it, most people don't understand or even notice.
As to calling a saleperson of color racist for wanting to help you, that is your choice.
While shopping, I've been targeted, followed and had unwanted/unneeded help for something as simple as looking at something interesting "for too long," especially if its an expensive item. Even while still in my Paramedic uniform. I've even had my boyfriend notice overt racist behaivior directed towards me that I somehow missed.
Not everyone that works in stores are "out to harrass someone of color," but unfortunately, there are still those out there that do it. [emoji17]
Of course, there are also those salespeople that simply wish to help. Usually the salespeople I encounter are the helpful type, which makes the racist ones stand out all the more, especially when they follow you around the store.
Ryuichi
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Quote from: CMD042414 on August 07, 2017, 08:30:07 AM
Of course there are racist black cops that don't like white people. But how many of those interactions result in the white person being killed at the hand of the black cop.
Last couple of times when a black person was killed by a white cop, he was either armed or tried to fight them. When was the last time a cop killed a fully compliant black person during a routine traffic stop?
I am against police brutality and paramilitarization, and as CCW holder I am also a potential target for a rogue cop (let me tell you, I was once one move away from being shot by police). So, again I have a great sympathy to any case when shooting by police is not justified. Yet, it does not cease to amaze me how stupid were acts of so many 'victims' who were shot. They think they can brandish a gun on a cop, or attack him physically without a cop defending himself??? Seriously?
Btw, while you're at it, look up in Wikipedia 'Death of Kelly Thomas'. I don't know if any of 6 officers were black, but the main assault came from a Latino officer. All found not guilty. I hope not only black life's matter...
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OK lets not start an argument in this thread.
That would disappoint and upset me.
Cindy
Quote from: elkie-t on August 07, 2017, 08:40:50 AM
Last couple of times when a black person was killed by a white cop, he was either armed or tried to fight them. When was the last time a cop killed a fully compliant black person during a routine traffic stop?
Actually, there is a case where an unarmed black man stopped by cops was in fact shot, wife in the passenger and child in the backseat. He was shot because unfortunately even if he wasn't threatening he didn't listen to "the rules", and when he reached down to get something it was perceived as a threat and the cop shot into his window. I don't have the video, I was actually kind of disgusted when a friend showed me it so I didn't bother to go look.
Another case of a black male trying to protect a young autistic male, he ended up getting shot accidentally.
I agree the majority of cases are criminals who HAPPEN to be black, but because of the fear associated with these men it causes harm to innocent people..
These guys in this thread already admitted they do not believe all cops are racist, why continue to cause a stir?
I do believe part of the reason cops are caused to look "evil" is because in black and white their job is glorified, they might go about trying to help people and catch "the bad guy", but in reality, all people you are dealing with in the end are civilians...and there's a hard line to draw in determining who is trouble and who's a good person who messed up.
Besides that, Ryichis point with the "May I help you?" is in no way to demean a harmless phrase, he's a smart guy, you can usually tell the context of a phrase by the vitriol and caution in a voice.
I work in retail myself so one of the unfortunate things I have to do, especially when co-workers suspect someone, is be aware of shady people. I don't like judging people unless I know for sure they did something wrong so it can be hard. However, I do see so many wonderful people who are black, Muslim, Hispanic, poor, gender variant etc. It far outweighs the crooks so if I see someone shady, it's not because they're black.
Quote from: elkie-t on August 07, 2017, 06:52:26 AM
Can't there be a black racist cops who just love to harass white people? Don't listen to your brothas too much. Don't look like a trouble and the trouble would not look for you.
As far as a 'racist' 'how can I help you' - it's something new in racial science... Next time a black clerk asks me that, I'll tell him it's racism to ask that question to white customers...
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Yes they can but how often do you see that? Not only that but this is about my experiences as a black man, we know not only white people can be racist but this is not about that. I have had my own fair share of racist people, so I have experienced it.
Quote from: elkie-t on August 07, 2017, 08:40:50 AM
Last couple of times when a black person was killed by a white cop, he was either armed or tried to fight them. When was the last time a cop killed a fully compliant black person during a routine traffic stop?
I am against police brutality and paramilitarization, and as CCW holder I am also a potential target for a rogue cop (let me tell you, I was once one move away from being shot by police). So, again I have a great sympathy to any case when shooting by police is not justified. Yet, it does not cease to amaze me how stupid were acts of so many 'victims' who were shot. They think they can brandish a gun on a cop, or attack him physically without a cop defending himself??? Seriously?
Not eveyone of those dudes were armed though, most of those cops use acessive force, which is not needed. Say what you will but there have been fully compliant black people, don't give me that and I am really not trying to argue. Face it you got some racist ass cops but some of you choose not acknwolage it.
Quote from: WolfNightV4X1 on August 07, 2017, 11:31:18 AM
Actually, there is a case where an unarmed black man stopped by cops was in fact shot, wife in the passenger and child in the backseat. He was shot because unfortunately even if he wasn't threatening he didn't listen to "the rules", and when he reached down to get something it was perceived as a threat and the cop shot into his window. I don't have the video, I was actually kind of disgusted when a friend showed me it so I didn't bother to go look.
Another case of a black male trying to protect a young autistic male, he ended up getting shot accidentally.
I agree the majority of cases are criminals who HAPPEN to be black, but because of the fear associated with these men it causes harm to innocent people..
These guys in this thread already admitted they do not believe all cops are racist, why continue to cause a stir?
I do believe part of the reason cops are caused to look "evil" is because in black and white their job is glorified, they might go about trying to help people and catch "the bad guy", but in reality, all people you are dealing with in the end are civilians...and there's a hard line to draw in determining who is trouble and who's a good person who messed up.
Besides that, Ryichis point with the "May I help you?" is in no way to demean a harmless phrase, he's a smart guy, you can usually tell the context of a phrase by the vitriol and caution in a voice.
I work in retail myself so one of the unfortunate things I have to do, especially when co-workers suspect someone, is be aware of shady people. I don't like judging people unless I know for sure they did something wrong so it can be hard. However, I do see so many wonderful people who are black, Muslim, Hispanic, poor, gender variant etc. It far outweighs the crooks so if I see someone shady, it's not because they're black.
I am not, by any means trying to start, nor continue any type of argument. I am simply trying to have a conversation explaining what life can be like as a person of color in the United States in 2017.
I mentioned it before, but I will reiterate. My younger sister is a homicide cop. She has never had to shoot anyone, but because she wants to be able to go home to her family at the end of each day, she more than likely will not hesitate if someone is stupid enough to try and pull a gun on her while at work. I don't blame her.
As a Paramedic, I too have gone into dangerous areas, except the only weapons we had were a metal clipboard and a metal oxygen tank. And that's going into the heart of some of the worst neighborhoods in the city, with inhabitants that share the same skin color as I.
Frankly, if someone pulls a gun on a cop, despite their skin color, they get no sympathy from me. They get what they deserve. A cop is simply doing their job...WHEN they follow the laws.
I'm speaking about those cops that want a knotch on their belt. "I killed someone and got a slap on the wrist"-types. Face it, they're out there.
Lately, it seems that many of the people of color killed by cops here in the US are unarmed. Sad, but true. The wikipedia page for Philando Castile is a perfect example of "someone doing everything asked by a cop who was killed anyway." (My quotes.)
I can't afford to be racist. My family is made up of people of many different races, from African-American, Hispanic, Native American, Caucasian and Asian, to name a few.
I don't recall experiencing racism until I began working as a EMT for my home city. I never noticed even overt racism until it was pointed out to me. Even now I often miss it. I simply make sure to not do anything that can be misconstrued the wrong way. I've done it for so long it has nearly become second nature. I don't want to become a statistic.
But now that I am aware of the tacticts that many racists use, I make sure to be never do anything that could be considered racist at any time.
After all, at the end of the day, I just want to go home to my family too.
Ryuichi
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If I'm stopped by cops I always make sure to be polite, non-threatening and co-operative. I do not enjoy being stopped by them, but they have the authority and the agency in that situation, and it doesn't help me to tick them off.
While I just happen to have been born white in a predominantly white country, I've been abroad to predominantly black countries, Arab countries, etc. where they have no reason to treat me favorably and I do exactly the same there when dealing with police or armed border guards. I've been to and lived in places where they don't especially 'like' English people too and look for all and any reason to start a fight with one. Some people have prejudices, there is some risk, but you're going to have to go out there and potentially face it. Not all cops are racist. Some are, obviously, but racist people come in all stripes. I've seen a rise in the number of people out there hashtagging "killallwhitepeople" and trying to make every white person out to be a racist, which is hardly any more admirable or correct. There are people out to inflame the situation or start a race war over every incident that occurs, whether it be a white cop shooting an unarmed black man or a group of black people kidnapping and torturing a white man for being white.
We can either embrace becoming ever more paranoid and hateful or try to diffuse the situation some with our own thoughts and actions. The situation isn't good, but the choice is: do we each want to see it get worse, or better? Well, it starts and ends with every one of us, how we think and conduct ourselves among others in everyday life
Don't make the assumption that police harassment is just about race.
Being generally perceived as a long haired white guy, I'm always assumed to be some hippie that has drugs on me.
Most importantly, don't let your anger out in the event you are harassed, as hard as it might be. While cops definitely do need to work on deescalating situations, both parties can do it. Yelling or running or getting violent yourself is a really bad idea, just take what they give you, even if it means getting arrested for something you feel you don't deserve to be, and you'll have your chance to call a lawyer to sort it out.
I've read all these posts and I can't deny any of the stuff that's been written. There are bad cops just like there are bad people. Becoming a police officer doesn't erase the prejudices a person has. There are cops who are very racist. There are some who look at being a police officer as a big power trip and abuse their power. Prejudice works in different ways. One of my dad's friends is an African American who doesn't like Latinos. Is he more suspicious of Latino males? Probably. But I can't say for sure that he pulls them over more than suspects of other races. My dad tends to be equally suspicious of everyone. If it's something minor and the person has acted respectfully he will let them off with a warning. But some cops give tickets for anything they can because they like the power trip. Cops are people. Some are total dicks and some are nice.
Traffic stops are one of the most dangerous activities for a cop. From the time he gets out of his cruiser he's vulnerable. They get really nervous approaching a car . it's easy for someone to blow them away which happens. If someone looks as if they are going for a weapon they will shoot. It's not about right or wrong. It's their training. I'm not saying all shootings are justified or right. I'm just saying it comes down to like a split second decision and police officers are trained to shoot if they feel threatened. My dad has never shot anyone as a police officer. (He has when he was in the marines and was deployed). If you get stopped keep your hands where the officer can see them and Don't argue or get nasty and things should be ok no matter what race you are.
Julia
Bottom line could be summed up as this:
Nice people come in all colors and professions.
Rascists/mean people come in all colors and professions.
Be respectful to everyone, and (hopefully) they will be respectful to you.
Besides, you can call the racists/mean people/etc every name under the sun once you're home!
Ryuichi
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