I especially want FTMs to answer this question but its ok if transwomen answer it too.
I had a male friend that I'm not friends with anymore who told me I have a nice ass and kept rubbing my legs and at that time I was back in the closet after coming out and started living as female again. He later texted me and told me he was horny. When he did that it triggered by dysphoria and I started presenting as male again. Another thing that happened was I wore a dress while presenting as female and some men yelled flirty things out a car window at me.
I flirt first so I can't answer this! >:-) :laugh:
Hugs, Devlyn
Definitely yes...! :( And so so much! (transwoman btw)
Inviato dal mio KIW-L21 utilizzando Tapatalk
Not FtM, but yes, it has this has been a problem for me.
Quote from: KarlMars on August 12, 2017, 06:31:19 AM
I had a male friend that I'm not friends with anymore who told me I have a nice ass and kept rubbing my legs and at that time I was back in the closet after coming out and started living as female again. He later texted me and told me he was horny. When he did that it triggered by dysphoria and I started presenting as male again. Another thing that happened was I wore a dress while presenting as female and some men yelled flirty things out a car window at me.
To me these sound more like suggestions and sexually loaded comments than flirting
Anyway. If there's one thing that triggers my dysphoria to intolerable levels it's guys showing interest me. And I'm very much into guys so this is something that has been the endless source of pain for me and comedy for those who are watching it from the outside. I have no problem with people asking me if I want to have sex with them (I don't and I tell them as much) or total strangers making sexists remarks (little do they understand, poor people) or people flirting just for the sake of it (I do it myself for fun without any deeper meaning and I assume others are doing exactly the same). But if someone shows a genuine interest in me and for instance wants to go on a date or something, I will freak out.
Back in the day I tried to date guys yet I never had any success. Going out with someone would just trigger these obscure dissociative episodes during which I would do all kind of confusing stuff to avoid the intimacy with another person. Later on I would not be able to tell what had gotten into me but at least I managed to destroy all my potential relationships and then some. My attempts to date also tended to lead to substance abuse, although there was other stuff going on in my life at that time to contribute to that.
Related to this, I've only had sex with people who I don't know and more often than not I was also drunk or just plain out of my mind during these occasions. I have mostly accounted this behavior for gender dysphoria and have found that accepting myself and being more open about being trans has helped. I still won't date anyone but at least I'm doing pretty well in other areas of my life, which wasn't the case in the past.
Thank goodness I've mostly lost my interest in any sexual relations by now and I haven't had an episode for three and a half years or so. If someone shows any romantic interest in me now, I'll get somewhat uncomfortable and maybe lose a couple of nights sleep over it but that's pretty much it. Also no substance abuse for five years now.
Pre-transition, definitely. It was part of the reason that I had very few intimate relationships prior to transitioning despite being fairly attractive and definitely not hurting for dates. I didn't want to be seen as female romantically or sexually, and instead of just sucking it up and dealing with it, I avoided. Worked well for me, 10/10 no regrets.
Yes. I actually had a girl get kind of aggressive about it. I can't even imagine what her deal is that she would be attracted to a small,scrawny, androgynous albino boy but she was. She would say all kinds of sexual stuff, flashed her vag at me and even grabbed my crotch a couple of times. I was in 10th grade at the time. I could have reported her because it totally was sexual harassment but I was too embarrassed to say anything. I can't even describe how totally gross she made me feel. Everytime I had an interaction with her I felt like I needed to shower. It was even worse when guys would tell me I "needed to hit that." Talk about an overload of gross! Thank god her family moved and she got transferred to another school. I'm sure it is much worse for a straight trans guy. For straight guys having another guy make sexual comments and advances is like a huge insult to their masculinity.
Julia
Back in my flirtable days, my awareness of gender and sexuality was so messed up that I don't think I would have noticed a flirt if I had received one. I still might not. Being a MTF lesbian, I probably would have liked flirting by a girl if I had recognized it. Or if it had happened.
I did have one guy pay attention to me. He probably thought it was flirting; I experienced it as sexual assault. Definitely a negative experience.
Quote from: Julia1996 on August 12, 2017, 10:15:08 AM
Yes. I actually had a girl get kind of aggressive about it. I can't even imagine what her deal is that she would be attracted to a small,scrawny, androgynous albino boy but she was. She would say all kinds of sexual stuff, flashed her vag at me and even grabbed my crotch a couple of times. I was in 10th grade at the time. I could have reported her because it totally was sexual harassment but I was too embarrassed to say anything. I can't even describe how totally gross she made me feel. Everytime I had an interaction with her I felt like I needed to shower. It was even worse when guys would tell me I "needed to hit that." Talk about an overload of gross! Thank god her family moved and she got transferred to another school. I'm sure it is much worse for a straight trans guy. For straight guys having another guy make sexual comments and advances is like a huge insult to their masculinity.
Julia
I'm not straight by the way. Sorry she made you feel that way.
Yes, definitely a major trigger. To the point I can't even think about being in a relationship. Casual flirting I'm completely oblivious to, so that's not really an issue. But try to have an actual relationship and I freak out big time. Which is actually a little frustrating because like you, I'm gay. So I find men attractive and I want to date them, but the thought of them seeing me as a female in the relationship sends me into a panic attack. And nothing triggers my social dysphoria like the word "girlfriend."
I stopped trying to date completely several years ago. I basically took myself off the market and actively discouraged all attempts by friends and family to set me up with someone. I'm not even going to attempt to date again until after I'm fully transitioned and I can date a guy as a guy. I think I'll be okay with flirting and dating if I know the guy sees me as male.
Quote from: kylen kantari on August 12, 2017, 12:35:40 PM
And nothing triggers my social dysphoria like the word "girlfriend."
This. This so much. I would rather stab myself in face with old rusty kitchen knife than let anyone call me their girlfriend.
Actually I could as well second everything else you just said.
And now that I'm on it, I need to add that going to a gay club is the worst. I sometimes have gone just to show my support to a gay friend. Nowhere have I gotten so much attention from straight guys than in a gay bar, of all the places. I don't even...
I have thought about transitioning and I believe that if my situation was slightly different from what it is now I would probably just go for it. Or had done so already most likely. But as is I don't want to make any major changes in my life. In particular, I don't want to take a risk of getting my sex drive back after injecting testosterone unless I'm 100% sure I won't freak out every time I meet someone I might be interested in. If that means I'll die alone so be it.
Life is hard. Thank goodness we have this forum and this thread. This is a touchy issue for me but I can't imagine discussing it with anyone I know in real life.
It used to, most definitely. The opposite used to really trigger my dysphoria, as well (being rebuked by a woman due to being seen as another woman).
I could never figure out why dudes found me attractive after I made a lot of efforts to masculinize my appearance pre-T. I knew they were still seeing a female, though, and that drove me absolutely insane.
Though I'm not into dudes, if I were, I'd want him to both treat and see me like any other guy because that's what I am.
It's just a matter of being hyper-aware that the body the other person is finding attractive really isn't you in the truest sense of the word. They see and want a girl and they likely want to treat you like a woman. That's the trigger, not the fact that a man (whom you may otherwise be attracted to given different circumstances) is interested.
Getting a more public-facing job and having to deal with straight men who clearly viewed me as a woman constantly making sexual/demeaning comments was the final straw that got me to start T.
I actually am attracted to men, but it makes me really uncomfortable that the parts of me that I hate and want to get rid of are the aspect of me that these straight guys are attracted to. And honestly, just having to turn men down in general scares me, because I've been threatened and even slapped around for refusing to give my number even without revealing I was trans.
Quote from: widdershins on August 12, 2017, 05:15:43 PM
Getting a more public-facing job and having to deal with straight men who clearly viewed me as a woman constantly making sexual/demeaning comments was the final straw that got me to start T.
I actually am attracted to men, but it makes me really uncomfortable that the parts of me that I hate and want to get rid of are the aspect of me that these straight guys are attracted to. And honestly, just having to turn men down in general scares me, because I've been threatened and even slapped around for refusing to give my number even without revealing I was trans.
Where did someone threaten you?
This. So much of this.
I have two friends that I thought I was just buddies with that I've had to cut out of my life because they continue to flirt with me... and they're not gay. It makes me uncomfortable because it's painfully obvious that they don't see me as a man, and because I just don't see them that way or have any desire to.
Don't get me wrong, I can date guys. Its strange because emotionally, I'm pretty sure I'm pansexual. But when it boils down to the physical (and it always does with most people my age) I just can't with another man. Its bordering on a repulsion towards the male genitalia (on another person). That might change after my transition when I feel like I'm secure in my masculinity, or something like that.
Sorry, got off topic there.
Its just really, really, really sucky when a random guy flirts with me. Because I know he's not looking at me as another guy. Basically it just reminds me that I'm not passing, and that I still look enough like a girl to be at least mildly attractive as one. And then I get really conscious of the fact that I'm not passing, and I start fidgeting under my binder and worrying about everything.
On the whole "girlfriend" thing: totally 100% get that. Its enough to make me not want to leave my room for a week. A girl I was dating a while back (and a transwoman none-the-less (still closeted about trans, presenting male, out to me for obvious reasons)) slipped while she was on the computer with her gamer friends and I was in the room. It would have been understandable if she had known me as a girl first- but she had always really known me as Dustin. That right there spoke volumes to me- that either she was embarrassed to tell them and didn't want them to think she was even a gay man, or that she just never *really* was able to see me as a guy. Either way, it made me very iffy to her for a few weeks, even after I confronted her about it right there, and she later corrected herself to her friends. When that word is used towards me, it makes me very edgy.
Also this one time in Iraq: I was hanging out with one of my friends from another shop (apparently too much), and every time I would walk into his office area (often because our shops worked together in a way) one of his co-workers would say (jokingly, but still) "hey xxx, your girlfriend is here." Good lord, did that drive me up the walls- for more reasons than one. Didn't help that I couldn't correct them about the girl part; thank you, nails holding the closet door shut.
Anyway- I feel like its probably a pretty common feeling to have dysphoria triggered by that.
Quote from: KarlMars on August 13, 2017, 07:50:57 AM
Where did someone threaten you?
The time I got slammed against the wall it was on a city bus. But I've also had stuff that didn't escalate that far at the train station, in a food court, in the waiting room to see my therapist...Countless times on social media and dating sites/apps...
To be clear, I'm not looking for pity or anything. It's something all people who get read as feminine have to deal with. I was just expanding on the reasons getting hit on by straight guys can be scary.
I've an experience that is basically the polar opposite of this, and I'd like to share it. One of my earliest experiences with gender euphoria (basically the good counterpart of dysphoria) came when sunbathing next to a friend of mine whom I had a small crush on. He was taking up so much space that we basically had to snuggle up with each other. I ended up thinking that the way we positioned around each other would give others the idea that we were a straight couple, and that I would be seen as the girl of the pair. And I felt like that was a comfortable thought, like this is how it's supposed to be. To the point where there was nothing saying that no, I'm not a girl because I have this thing between my legs and no breasts to speak of. I mean, it seriously felt like those two issues were just gone.
Back then I wasn't even fully aware of actually being transgender. I knew that I preferred to think of myself as female in imaginary contexts, but was still trying to deny that I subconsciously wanted (or rather, needed to) to be a woman and be acknowledged as such. It's one of the experiences that convinced me that I really was a trans woman, and that I ultimately need to transition in order to ever be satisfied with my life.
Quote from: dusty97 on August 13, 2017, 08:57:40 AM
This. So much of this.
I have two friends that I thought I was just buddies with that I've had to cut out of my life because they continue to flirt with me... and they're not gay. It makes me uncomfortable because it's painfully obvious that they don't see me as a man, and because I just don't see them that way or have any desire to.
Don't get me wrong, I can date guys. Its strange because emotionally, I'm pretty sure I'm pansexual. But when it boils down to the physical (and it always does with most people my age) I just can't with another man. Its bordering on a repulsion towards the male genitalia (on another person). That might change after my transition when I feel like I'm secure in my masculinity, or something like that.
Sorry, got off topic there.
Its just really, really, really sucky when a random guy flirts with me. Because I know he's not looking at me as another guy. Basically it just reminds me that I'm not passing, and that I still look enough like a girl to be at least mildly attractive as one. And then I get really conscious of the fact that I'm not passing, and I start fidgeting under my binder and worrying about everything.
On the whole "girlfriend" thing: totally 100% get that. Its enough to make me not want to leave my room for a week. A girl I was dating a while back (and a transwoman none-the-less (still closeted about trans, presenting male, out to me for obvious reasons)) slipped while she was on the computer with her gamer friends and I was in the room. It would have been understandable if she had known me as a girl first- but she had always really known me as Dustin. That right there spoke volumes to me- that either she was embarrassed to tell them and didn't want them to think she was even a gay man, or that she just never *really* was able to see me as a guy. Either way, it made me very iffy to her for a few weeks, even after I confronted her about it right there, and she later corrected herself to her friends. When that word is used towards me, it makes me very edgy.
Also this one time in Iraq: I was hanging out with one of my friends from another shop (apparently too much), and every time I would walk into his office area (often because our shops worked together in a way) one of his co-workers would say (jokingly, but still) "hey xxx, your girlfriend is here." Good lord, did that drive me up the walls- for more reasons than one. Didn't help that I couldn't correct them about the girl part; thank you, nails holding the closet door shut.
Anyway- I feel like its probably a pretty common feeling to have dysphoria triggered by that.
So I take it you're a veteran?
Quote from: KarlMars on August 15, 2017, 07:29:01 PM
So I take it you're a veteran?
I think of the word veteran as being past military (though I'm not sure if that's ACTUALLY all it means or if it refers to all service members- active and former), but yes, I am military.
Army, 35T, just over two years in, one deployment down, hoping to be career- assuming I'm allowed to stay that long, thanks to the current president striking fear into my heart, even though I don't rationally think anything's going to come of it.
Above mentioned President's attempt to change policy via tweet is already being more widely discussed in the Roll Call thread, though, so I don't really want to start a discussion and go off the OP topic here.
Quote from: FreyasRedemption on August 14, 2017, 05:57:46 AM
I've an experience that is basically the polar opposite of this, and I'd like to share it. One of my earliest experiences with gender euphoria (basically the good counterpart of dysphoria) came when sunbathing next to a friend of mine whom I had a small crush on. He was taking up so much space that we basically had to snuggle up with each other. I ended up thinking that the way we positioned around each other would give others the idea that we were a straight couple, and that I would be seen as the girl of the pair. And I felt like that was a comfortable thought, like this is how it's supposed to be. To the point where there was nothing saying that no, I'm not a girl because I have this thing between my legs and no breasts to speak of. I mean, it seriously felt like those two issues were just gone.
Back then I wasn't even fully aware of actually being transgender. I knew that I preferred to think of myself as female in imaginary contexts, but was still trying to deny that I subconsciously wanted (or rather, needed to) to be a woman and be acknowledged as such. It's one of the experiences that convinced me that I really was a trans woman, and that I ultimately need to transition in order to ever be satisfied with my life.
It's a nice story. Did your boyfriend know you were transgender at that time and treat you as a female?
Actually as I look back on my life I feel it's the reason my first wife left. 40 years ago.
Quote from: KarlMars on August 15, 2017, 07:43:15 PM
It's a nice story. Did your boyfriend know you were transgender at that time and treat you as a female?
....Not really. First, he wasn't my boyfriend. We were really good friends, and I had a minor crush on him, but we weren't together. Second, I wasn't even properly out to myself at the time. Though I'm pretty certain he knew anyway, given certain things he said and...didn't say. I'd say he genuinely considered me a girl, but thought as me as more of a sister (or maybe rather a sister-in-arms, given the wacky shenanigans we got up to) than somebody he could have a romantic interest in.
lucky for me, no one has been interested in me as a female since i quit wearing makeup/ladies' clothes/etc (or if they have, they certainly haven't said so, and i'm fine to keep it that way). and no one views me as a male, either, so i don't have to worry about attraction from just about anyone these days. and i don't *want* anyone to be attracted to me while i'm stuck in this ugly pre-transition phase, basically just going through life looking like a really unattractive woman and hoping nobody notices me. i'd find it really "triggering" to my dysphoria no matter what gender they were (or what gender they thought i was) to have someone interested in me as i am right now.
I must have presented so male all of my life that the only males flirting with me were colleagues who knew me online only and so had never seen more than just head and shoulder photos of me in company emails. One was besotted by me and asked about taking me out. I tried to give him hints that I wouldn't be dressing up in any girly clothes e.g. I only wear cargo shorts or trousers. I thought that would make him back off. It didn't!
Did this trigger dysphoria? Not a huge amount. It did bother me that he perceived me as female ( photo and my name would indicate that). It did make me re-think who I was: gay or straight. I came to the conclusion that I was definitely gay ( that was long before I ever heard of transmen and therefore I didn't classify myself as such. I was just a weirdo in my own head ;D) .
Like all the other misgendering I had to endure all my life, I learned to let it roll off my back.