When I was born, I was given a boy's name and a boy's toys, but in my entire life the number of people who have treated me as a male can be counted on one hand.
You might think that's nice, but it's been bizarre. I'm very affectionate, but I've never had any man feel threatened when I was cuddling with his girlfriend. People alternate between commenting on my extreme masculinity (one of the people counted on one hand) or my extreme femininity (the rest). I've had people ask me how I do it, why they can't sort me into any boxes.
I've never tried to be this way, and for some reason, I'm physically different too, though I have no idea if I'm intersex. My voice isn't deep, and I haven't broadened like all my male relatives have by this age. I have a deep appreciation for color - I can see shades even people born female don't perceive. I've hung out with people who by reputation were misogynistic and transphobic who just . . give me a pass, don't care. Nobody seems to actually bother even categorize me, they just set me aside as a non-threat.
I get touched a lot. I'm not against it, actually, but people who aren't very affectionate seem to get the urge to just like - pat my head? (I'm short, and I think very cute.)
It's just really strange. I mean, the best way to describe it is that I'm not even approached as a human to be judged. It's like people just treat me like a friendly dog.
Since I'm transitioning to female .. it doesn't even feel like I'm really transitioning at all, because the social role I fulfill isn't even a gendered one. It just feels like a progressive rather than corrective action, and I don't think anyone will treat me any differently.
Has anyone else experienced something like this? Like, I've worked with the public, I went to public schools and public college, and people react to me this way nigh universally. I don't get it, and it's really affected my ability to even know what I am.
When I was in a high school, there was a very talented kid a couple grades younger than me. It was in a time and in a country where being marked gay was considered social death. Yet somehow despite quite feminine appearance, everyone would accept that kid just fine...
Then he committed suicide [emoji22]
I was never really treated as a boy at school. It had nothing to do with anyone being tolerant. Actually the way other boys treated me was meant to be insulting and demeaning. Like calling me "she" and using "her". But I never thought of it as insulting. Actually I liked it when they used female pronouns. It was basically like yes you are a boy but you don't count as one and don't deserve to be treated as one. At least that's how most of the guys thought. Males think it's such a privilege to treat someone as a guy. In some cases I know boys have to prove their masculinity to be accepted by other boys. Whatever! I really have trouble understanding male behavior sometimes. Guys can be so weird! Girls were a bit nicer about it but that seemed to be pretty much what they thought too. And no body saw me as any kind of threat. I was just the weird pale kid with scary eyes. In the higher grades people used female pronouns even more. It was still meant as a insult. My last year of high school some guys were actually nice to me. Probably because they didn't see me as any competition for the attention of girls and I was really small and fem so also no competition to the status of their masculincity. I've actually seen 2 guys beat the crap out of each other over a girl. Why not just mark her by peeing on each other.
My dad and older brother never treated me like a boy either. They have both always been much more affectionate with me than guys are with each other. And my dad has called me " pumpkin " as long as I can remember. After I transitioned I told my brother I was sorry if my transition embarrassed him. He said it didn't at all. He said I was always more like a sister than a brother and that it wasn't really a big change to him. I think people who are around you a lot get some kind of sense that your assigned sex doesn't match your gender identity. They might not even be aware of it. They treat you more like your gender identity without even realizing it.
Julia
Julia
Quote from: Averyel on August 20, 2017, 07:52:29 AM
When I was born, I was given a boy's name and a boy's toys, but in my entire life the number of people who have treated me as a male can be counted on one hand.
You might think that's nice, but it's been bizarre. I'm very affectionate, but I've never had any man feel threatened when I was cuddling with his girlfriend. People alternate between commenting on my extreme masculinity (one of the people counted on one hand) or my extreme femininity (the rest). I've had people ask me how I do it, why they can't sort me into any boxes.
I've never tried to be this way, and for some reason, I'm physically different too, though I have no idea if I'm intersex. My voice isn't deep, and I haven't broadened like all my male relatives have by this age. I have a deep appreciation for color - I can see shades even people born female don't perceive. I've hung out with people who by reputation were misogynistic and transphobic who just . . give me a pass, don't care. Nobody seems to actually bother even categorize me, they just set me aside as a non-threat.
I get touched a lot. I'm not against it, actually, but people who aren't very affectionate seem to get the urge to just like - pat my head? (I'm short, and I think very cute.)
It's just really strange. I mean, the best way to describe it is that I'm not even approached as a human to be judged. It's like people just treat me like a friendly dog.
Since I'm transitioning to female .. it doesn't even feel like I'm really transitioning at all, because the social role I fulfill isn't even a gendered one. It just feels like a progressive rather than corrective action, and I don't think anyone will treat me any differently.
Has anyone else experienced something like this? Like, I've worked with the public, I went to public schools and public college, and people react to me this way nigh universally. I don't get it, and it's really affected my ability to even know what I am.
Waves. Wow, have you been spying on me ;)
Welcome to our little area - I particularly liked the friendly dog analogy - it can feel as though we are not part of the human experience, dislocated and in a space of our own. I've been talked across, and over, expected to be friendly and fun, but only for a time. It feels like tolerance, with moments of acceptance.
The feeling of invisibility and insignificance can be hard to shake - it gives us a key advantage though, as we can see the masculine and the feminine around us, something I didn't personally appreciate until recently. And the games, oh the merry little dances that each group dances, we can play, and have fun but somehow we are fully aware that it is a game.
welcome home, to the forest, and join in - you'll find lots of folk here, we're just not quite as chatty as some of the other boards :)
Rowan
I wasn't exactly socialized as a guy either. People sometimes tried to, but I didn't really feel like I was like them. I could do the same things they did, and some were fun, but I wasn't very good at them. It seemed like the tomboys were better than me. I was really most jealous of them.
I was always appreciative of color also. I think people mostly assume I am a feminine gay guy, it used to bother me, because I like women, although I am not a heterosexual guy, for a long time I didn't think it was possible to like women and be a trans woman. In reality, while getting a first date might have been easier, the ones where I tried to act like a man never went anywhere because they always saw right through it.
I feel like most people want me to be a feminine gay guy, while they might not like it, they understand it. Being trans is so much more complicated, let alone being a trans woman that wants to be like a lesbian tomboy.
Oh hey!!! I got replies! Very nice, very nice.
Dating has always been weird for me too. I used to have long hair and I rather accidentally started passing for female?? And I ended up dating a straight guy?? For eight months?? And he was six inches taller than me because I'm really small??
In like elementary and high school I was like, the only male-ish kid that liked hanging with girls, and so a bunch of them like me and one of them ended up dating me for like . . a year . . . and kissing me and stuff, and I was just confused as heck.
Like people talk about 'oh he's confused' and mean I don't know what my inside feels are doing but LITERALLY I had my stuff sorted, it was everyone else that seemed super confusing. Like people would ask me out and I'd say yes because like dang there is e m o t i o n coming from this person and now I am responsible for it??
So I've started coming out as mtf to select friends and I just got out of a heartbreak and already my friend is telling me that, the very same trans friend that was supposed to be a potential trans buddy, thinks I'm very attractive?? And I'm just trying to proceed with my chickification but apparently I need to get a real quick lesson in Friendzoning(TM) first.
It's such a weird contradiction when 98% of people treat you as an Innocent Genderless Child and then someone's like, hey I wanna have sex with y o u
Like wait, holy ->-bleeped-<-, one you have recognized I possess a sexuality, nice nice, but how exactly are you seeing me that has presented me to you through this l e n s of d e s i r e ?
Like that straight guy I was with for eight months, he only found what junk I actually got five months in and he was surprised but cool with it?
I don't get to have the benefit of having a couple of blanks filled in from start re: what a person coming at me with
l u s t actually is seeing. It's like, playing slots with their perception of my gender + their orientation + their gender as the three wheels that get randomized with each pull.
You were with a guy for 5 months before he found out you had boy parts? How did you do it? From my experience with guys, their hands are everywhere and they can get aggressive with what they want. Did you have boobs? Didn't your friends or family ever misgender you in front of him? I would have been really scared. I told my boyfriend I was trans before we did anything physical. Unless they knew me before guys don't know I'm trans but I would be way too scared to not tell him. Guys are totally unpredictable about gender issues. Congratulations on pulling it off.
Quote from: Julia1996 on August 21, 2017, 06:38:56 AM
You were with a guy for 5 months before he found out you had boy parts? How did you do it? From my experience with guys, their hands are everywhere and they can get aggressive with what they want. Did you have boobs? Didn't your friends or family ever misgender you in front of him? I would have been really scared. I told my boyfriend I was trans before we did anything physical. Unless they knew me before guys don't know I'm trans but I would be way too scared to not tell him. Guys are totally unpredictable about gender issues. Congratulations on pulling it off.
This was back in high school so my memory isn't that great of it, but I identified as asexual back then and I always wore layers. I'm not sure why my lack of breasts didn't get me clocked - I remember I basically just dressed in blue jeans, a pastel color jacket, and some kind of t-shirt. I think since I'm already so small (I was 5'6, 130 pounds) that being flat chested just wasn't remarkable? And I remember that a couple people thought I wasn't female but was FtM instead, and I didn't bother to disabuse them of that notion. I think it helped that I was allowed to completely do away with my dead name at that school and go by Valentine, even when writing my name on assignments.