Over the past several months I have been wanting to distance myself from the trans community and trans activism because, to put it simply, I really do not like being trans or associating myself with anything trans-related. I live my day to day life in stealth mode. I don't talk about it. No one gives me problems for it. And I feel happy to be treated like a "normal" person. As soon as I reveal being trans, I'm afraid of people looking at me differently or treating me differently. Like my female acquaintances will see me as a "gay bestie" and my male acquaintances will become wary of me... like I'll start preying on them or something. I also don't want to deal with bathroom problems if someone I know or work with will suddenly develop a problem with me using the women's restroom or locker room at work. And then there is this attitude a lot of people seem to be forming about trans people... especially trans women. They think we're these pushy, chauvinistic, stereotype-obsessed, predatory, fetishistic, lesbophobic jerks... they call us SJWs and all those fun buzzwords Internet people like to use. The last thing I want is someone leaping down my throat or thinking I'm gonna start giving them a lecture on how not to be a "transmisogynist" and start acting like a drag queen with super exaggerated mannerisms... ugh. I'm not even super-political. Transitioning isn't a political statement to me. I just want to live my life. That's it!
And I guess you can say it's not all about discrimination. I don't really like being in the trans community either because it reminds me too much of where I have come from... the fact that I was born male and have to TRANSition. I don't connect with other trans women really well. I also don't talk about gender or have as much pride in my gender as others in the community do. I told my therapist that I felt that pride in the trans community is like having pride for being diabetic. To me, I have a mental illness and I am undergoing treatment. I don't want to talk to anyone about it and I sure as heck don't want to shout it from the rooftops.
But anyway, this has become a long and rambling post. Bottom line, this whole attitude is giving me a sick feeling and I don't really think it is a very positive attitude to hold. That said, these things that I think and feel are strong so they're not easily given up. And in the world we are living in today, if I have a chance at dodging discrimination, I don't think I'm wrong to take it. Everyone wants to feel safe, right?
I don't know. Is there anyone here who has similar feelings and can maybe help me sort this all out? I don't want to be disconnected from my people... I think it's wrong that I am, but all the same, I'm having trouble diving in. Not to mention that I can be pretty judgmental of the appearance and passing-ability of other trans women (it's a defense mechanism, I do it to boost my self esteem, but only in my head, I could never vocalize the things I think in there).
I know this all might make me sound like an unkind person but I'm just struggling. I started this transition process in 2015, and at that time I celebrated it, but now I'm just bitter. So much has changed, and the political atmosphere I think has a lot to do with that.
Advice?
-Allie
Sorry your struggling with it all. May you find the support you need from any place that makes sense for you personally. I can't address your bitterness about the community because i see it as nothing but positive.
While i have empathy for what you are saying here, i also feel like this post could be triggering to some and your opinions while valid, could have been stated in a kinder way.
There is discrimination no doubt, but personally that motivates me to know more people, change minds and help others out there. As for transition being political? i don't see it at all. Some try and make LGTB rights political but that is their failing, i just deserve the same rights as anyone.
There is a whole world of support out there for us, i have never had as many friends as i have after coming out and transitioning. For me it is a matter of what to focus on. We all have moments of " wow do i wish my life was less complicated and easier" but that is not exclusive to trans or lgtb people.
Again i hope the support comes and those that share your perspective can give feedback and help.
I also live in stealth mode and it is stressful, and I fear that being open would be even more stressful. Even so, I would rather be a FAAB woman than a trans woman, but I would rather be a trans woman than a man. I agree that being trans is nothing to be proud of but it is nothing to be ashamed of either, although I was brought up to feel that way. It is just what we are.
I often have little meltdowns myself. You may feel differently tomorrow. I'm sure that the others at Susan's Place will know how to be more comforting.
I can understand wanting to be stealth. I try to be as stealth as possible but it's not easy since a lot of people here knew me before transition. I hate being trans too and feel cheated that I am. But I wouldn't want to isolate myself from the trans community. This site has been my introduction to the trans community and I've met some very nice people here. I can also talk about things here I can't discuss with cis people. I find it very helpful that I can talk to others who can sympathize and understand what I'm going through. If you feel that strongly about isolating yourself from the trans community then maybe you should. But criticizing the passability of another trans woman is just mean and unnecessary. I wouldn't worry about associating with other trans women. From what you wrote I seriously doubt any transwoman would want to be your friend. I'm not trying to be mean or rag on you. I'm just going by what you have written. I hope things work out for you the way you want.
I can kind of understand the desire to be stealth, but it is not for me. To me, stealth is just another closet to shut myself into, and I am so done with closets!
I don't go around telling everyone that I am trans. It is none of anyone's business. On the other hand, a person doesn't have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out, and I am okay with that. In other words, being trans is totally irrelevant to my daily activities. I am just me, going about my business, and mostly being pretty happy about it.
I don't do much that is trans-related. Yes, I still have all my paperwork to straighten out, and I am starting to plan to get my letters for GRS. And I periodically go to a trans support group and to my HRT appointments. But for most of my daily life, I don't think of myself as a trans woman. I am just a woman.
I am a member of a Facebook group that is related to an aicraft type I flew many years ago. Sooner or later, someone in that group will wonder about my dates, since it is well documented that the first woman to fly that aircraft did so about four years after I did. But, I really don't care. It isn't a secret. If they ask, yes, I'm trans, now let's talk about the aircraft.
I find that the lightness of just letting it all go is what I like the most about transitioning. No more secrets. I yam what I yam.
Who knows if someone is trying to pass as a woman? I dress as one, I don't identify as one. I think you need to worry more about yourself and less about others. Also not sure why you would come to the community you dislike just to tell them that........
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 22, 2017, 02:48:30 PM
... not sure why you would come to the community you dislike just to tell them that........
I took the liberty of reading some of Allie's other posts. She doesn't feel like that all of the time. I think that she is just going through a bad patch. I'm sure that all of you will welcome her back when she is ready.
Trans people don't make being trans political. Transphobic politicians do. In the US, there is literally legislation in the works as we speak with the explicit goal of stripping us of our civil rights. And that kind of forces us to fight back if we value our lives, does it not? Especially those of us who aren't blessed with the ability to go stealth or pass.
I don't judge anyone who's stealth for their own safety. But don't bash the people who are out fighting for your ability to lead that life in peace.
Quote from: RobynD on September 22, 2017, 01:38:14 PM
Sorry your struggling with it all. May you find the support you need from any place that makes sense for you personally. I can't address your bitterness about the community because i see it as nothing but positive.
While i have empathy for what you are saying here, i also feel like this post could be triggering to some and your opinions while valid, could have been stated in a kinder way.
There is discrimination no doubt, but personally that motivates me to know more people, change minds and help others out there. As for transition being political? i don't see it at all. Some try and make LGTB rights political but that is their failing, i just deserve the same rights as anyone.
There is a whole world of support out there for us, i have never had as many friends as i have after coming out and transitioning. For me it is a matter of what to focus on. We all have moments of " wow do i wish my life was less complicated and easier" but that is not exclusive to trans or lgtb people.
Again i hope the support comes and those that share your perspective can give feedback and help.
I have been dealing with all of it.My good friend asked me if it is worth it.I reply it is better than the alternative.Be you and accept who you are and who you want to become.You will not make any progress constantky trying to hide who you are.Live you and hooe it gets better for you.
Actively trying to hide something does have negative psychological effects; you feel furtive because you are being furtive, and if that doesn't come natural (which to most people it doesn't) it can make a person feel awful. But there's nothing wrong with keeping personal business to yourself and if you decide being trans is personal business then it falls under that category. Keeping it off the table is no more wrong than keeping off the table anything else of your personal stuff.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on September 22, 2017, 02:48:30 PM
Who knows if someone is trying to pass as a woman? I dress as one, i don't identify as one. I think you need to worry more about yourself and less about others. Also not sure why you would come to the community you dislike just to tell them that........
^^ This 100%.
Everyone's journey is their own. It sounds like the OP maybe is stuck in the binary, and believes that presentation has to be a certain specific way in order to qualify as trans. I would suggest that the goal should be to reduce your gender dysphoria, and whatever shape that takes in physical presentation, gender identity, and transition should be respected and celebrated.
I am trans, I present androgynous, and I am damn proud of myself for living authentically in a world where privilege is abused by those who have it. I also respect and celebrate others who do the same, and try to create space and defend their right to be whoever they want to be, as long as they are kind, and do not harm others.
There are two main points of view. One where you are out in the open and show outwards pride in you past. There is nothing wrong with that point of view if you are comfortable with it however other than this site I am much like you and don't believe that being transgender is what I am all about.
The second view point comes from my therapy group dating back over 35 years. The thought was the transition is a temporary thing that takes you where you need to be. After it's completed, the best indication that is was successful is blending back into society. This means your issues are resolved and you are a part of normal social and work relations without having your transgender past becoming a part of it. It's not so much hiding your past but instead it no longer has a place in your day to day life. Consider somebody who is CIS. They never question their sexual identity and if treatment is successful, you should no longer need to either.
The second thought is difficult for somebody still transitioning to understand because they are dealing with their gender identity daily however after GCS for many there is a dividing line you cross over where you are no longer transgender as your gender identity issues are resolved. Crossing this line causes you to look at life differently and many don't feel the need to be a part of the community. I monitor the accounts up for deletion and it's common to see somebody who has finished their treatment put their account up for deletion as part of disconnecting from the community. Some may return as mentors like I have but most will not.
I sort of understand. I don't have any gay/lesbian/trans friends that I know of. Nor do I belong to any trans related functions or been associated with pride.
I've never been political or stand up for anything...I like flying under the radar, it's nots that I don't believe in a cause, just not involved. Does it make me a bad person? Probably.
Because of all this, that's why I'm on Susan's...sort of to connect through others, but that's it - online only. Maybe one day I'll change.
This is a touchy topic for a lot of people. I totally understand people wanting to live stealth and not wanting to out themselves. I have never and would never participate in a trans pride celebration or any type of LGBT pride celebration. I will admit that I would much prefer people not know I'm trans. But I do have a trans friend. She's 18 and she came to my work a while back to have her hair done. I've been shopping with her and we've gone to the mall. She just transitioned and just started hrt so she isn't very passable yet. Does being in public with her increase my own chances of being outed? Probably. It hasn't happened yet that I know of but it easily could. But I don't care. She has no one to help her. Her mom is supportive but she works all the time and doesn't have much time to do stuff with her. I would never let the possibility of getting outed myself stop me from socializing with a trans person. I can understand why some transpeople wouldn't be ok with that. But personally I could never turn my back on someone who needed my help because of the possibility of being outed.
While I do want to be as stealth as possible I wouldn't isolate myself from the trans community and I would never shun another trans person. I'm not saying someone who does is a bad person or anything. This is just how I feel about it.
I do get this posters point of view. I don't think any hostility is meant, just stating her feelings. I do think as she is more accepting of herself, that feeling might change.
I don't think I could ever be stealth, but it is a dream. People just basically thinking you are cis and not batting an eye. It must be a great feeling. I am social though, by the time I'm fully transitioned, or transitioned enough to be comfortable with myself, I'll have outed myself to do many people that I don't think stealth is possible. I'd have to move, start a new life, friends, hobbies, etc. That's not going to happen. I'll just have to deal with it, and have my friends and associates tes be accepting or not. I do have trans friends, gay friends, not worried about that outing me, and I'm glad they don't mind me wearing pink and being girly when I can.
I am sorry that the initial post came across as vitriolic as it did. It was written in a very emotional state of mind. I felt like I had to get it off my chest because it had been sitting there festering for months. But I of course would have benefited from a calmer post. Please forgive me.
I don't like this feeling. I don't want this feeling. I don't want to isolate myself from this community. That is why I came here to ask for help. I was hoping that maybe there was someone out there who has gone to this dark place and come out the other end and if they possibly had any advice.
I felt like I needed to be honest in that post, and the honest truth was a mean truth, but if I didn't let it out it would have been hard to receive specific help for it. Sometimes we have feelings that we reject but come to us, anyway. I never act out on these thoughts because I genuinely care about others and know the damage that those thoughts do when vocalized or put in action. It sounds crazy and contradictory but it's just where I am at right now and I am feeling stuck and not sure what to do. I feel alone in my pain and I just wanted to know that maybe someone else has pulled through all of this anger and frustration...
Apologies go miles here. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
I think a lot of us do hate that we are trans. Life would seem so much simpler if our brains had matched our birth sex. At the same time I have never known any way to think but the way I do, so the only way I can imagine being comfortable would be cis female. I have no way to know what a cis guy thinks so I can't ever want to be one. My brain has only ever been female.
Does certainly make living complicated. I'd love to get to a point where I could pass and be stealth. Just not being looked at as different for once in this lifetime would be amazing. But I have met a number of trans girls relatively speaking locally. We all provide support for one another even daily through a FB group. I have not completely extracted myself from my current employer however due to injury looks likely long term. If they knew I was trans I would have no job if I wanted it there.
So I understand hating to be in between what the majority take for granted. I have had to keep under the radar for work while still trying to figure out what it is like to be my true self, not the practiced character I portrayed. I see the political dangers ahead looming over all of us here in the US, and I feel I must say what I can and do what I can for now. I feel the wish I could be visible with my local sisters but I must stay where I am for now.
I think the goal of being able to live as stealth but still be your own person in your home community is important. I cannot deny that passing at a drive through on the road would be great.
There is a lot of self judgement going on... I can't lie. I'm sure many of you can understand how visceral these feelings of dysphoria are. I have daily considered some very drastic measures of hurrying the transition process along... surgery-wise. Even though I live stealth I am terrified of being outed, someway, somehow. I hate this reality I live in. I hate that this is my life. That's not to say I regret my choices, but I wish that these choices never had to be made to begin with. Sometimes it feels like living a cosmic joke... I'm in agony but full GRS is too expensive and an orchiectomy can't come soon enough. I am intimate with my partner but that intimacy is not reciprocated because I don't like being touched. My body revolts me. Feeling my lower half daily revolts me. Tucking is a dreadful process and feeling that tuck all day is a pain. I get tighter and tighter boy shorts in order to compress that entire area as much as I can... and while my parents are accepting they do not support me as much as I world like. I have a friend who's trans whose parents have helped her every step of the way, even with surgery! My mom continues to ask me if sexual abuse had made me this way...
All that stuff I put in that initial post is just the tip of the iceberg. This is what I'm really feeling and all that bitterness and anger is how it is manifesting...
No one should have to feel this way. And maybe that's why I can't feel proud about this. It's so painful... most times I just want to forget it's part of my life.
The option to live stealth would be wonderful. Not everyone wants to be in activist mode 24/7.
You can be proud to be Trans but want to blend in to your true gender.
If I had the luxury of being able to live mostly stealth vs a known "One of Those", I'd RUN for stealth. My early childhood training, where I learned that beeing seen/known as "Different" is a very bad thing.
But I don't have that luxury, especially this late in life and a well established career in a niche industry. Oh... and that big ugly 6ft tall bald guy thing too. For me the choice lies somewhere between an "In Your Face" activist on one end, or keeping my head down (In shame?) and try to blend in as best as possible. I am, as they say, "Somewhere on the Spectrum"
Quote from: Nina on September 22, 2017, 06:42:28 PM
I sort of understand. I don't have any gay/lesbian/trans friends that I know of. Nor do I belong to any trans related functions or been associated with pride.
I've never been political or stand up for anything...I like flying under the radar, it's nots that I don't believe in a cause, just not involved. Does it make me a bad person? Probably.
Because of all this, that's why I'm on Susan's...sort of to connect through others, but that's it - online only. Maybe one day I'll change.
I'm the very same Nina, you've taken the words out of my mouth, so to speak, these days I'm just another boring housewife, life is just so normal as the woman I am, the normality of it all.
Quote from: Allie24 on September 22, 2017, 07:56:03 PM
I am sorry that the initial post came across as vitriolic as it did. It was written in a very emotional state of mind. I felt like I had to get it off my chest because it had been sitting there festering for months. But I of course would have benefited from a calmer post. Please forgive me.
You have nothing to be sorry for. I'll say it again. Everything you said was appropriate, valuable, and worth hearing. Society is becoming reprehensibly averse to the expression of emotion, particularly angst since there is just so much of it, but we're in a rather special place in all of this, no? I agree with your original post completely. Ignore any efforts to shame you into visibility.
Like I'd imagine you do, I come here because there is valuable information to be exchanged about this topic that we all deal with in one way or another, and requisite services, processes, laws, etc. And for all the garbage I've survived, I feel the need to perhaps leave some cairn stones behind for future runners of the same path.
That's the extent of it. This exchange is a resource we need. We do so behind avatars, aliases, and other obfuscations that make it possible to share what we want, maybe have some kind words for likeminded others, and still lead a normal(ish) life. A lot of us do our time in the trenches and want out when possible. That is nothing to feel guilty over.
I know it might be difficult to hear over the bells still ringing in celebration of depathologization, but the key word is "dysphoria". That means it's a bad trip. Some people see this whole experience as a good trip. My advice is, don't even think about letting people who have a much different and sunnier perspective on this experience impinge on your sense of what is true and how you feel about your place in all of this. Let others do what they feel inclined to do. You have your own life to live.
There are honorable stealthers (many on this forum) and pariah activists (Jenner). If you don't want this matter to define your life, do your best to transition well and live according to your own nature. Living stealth is a beautiful thing and quite frankly we shouldn't need to martyr that ideal just for the whole "trans is beautiful" motif that all too often, for many of us, misses the entire spirit of how all this even came to visibility in the first place.
I'm glad that you haven't left, Allie. I think that your original post caught some members off guard, but obviously everyone is on your side. I haven't been a member very long myself, and at first even my membership felt too open for me. I even posted things and then deleted them, like a mouse peeping out of a hole and then running back to cover. I'm glad I stayed, though. I don't think that Susan's Place is activist per se. Mainly, I think, its a place where we know that there are other people who have gone through, or are going through, the same thing.
Quote from: Dena on September 22, 2017, 05:43:56 PM
I monitor the accounts up for deletion and it's common to see somebody who has finished their treatment put their account up for deletion as part of disconnecting from the community. Some may return as mentors like I have but most will not.
I finally find a school I like, then I have to think about graduation! That makes me feel strangely sad. I hope that in the future, "graduates" will often come back and tell us how they are doing. That goes especially for you, Julia.
I would do stealth in a heartbeat. Who wouldn't want to be seen as a cisgirl. It would eliminate so many potential problems when living a female life. Can I achieve stealth? I don't think so. It's not a definite no, since physically I'm kinda like Frank Dillane, but probably not. So, I'm left with the self-acceptance thing about being trans in public. Some of us can dream I guess.
Quote from: MaryT on September 23, 2017, 10:57:36 AM
I'm glad that you haven't left, Allie. I think that your original post caught some members off guard, but obviously everyone is on your side. I haven't been a member very long myself, and at first even my membership felt too open for me. I even posted things and then deleted them, like a mouse peeping out of a hole and then running back to cover. I'm glad I stayed, though. I don't think that Susan's Place is activist per se. Mainly, I think, its a place where we know that there are other people who have gone through, or are going through, the same thing.
I finally find a school I like, then I have to think about graduation! That makes me feel strangely sad. I hope that in the future, "graduates" will often come back and tell us how they are doing. That goes especially for you, Julia.
Aww that's sweet. But even after I have SRS I wouldn't delete my account. I know some people think of the surgery as the finish but I don't think there ever really is a finish to being trans. Besides, I consider so many of you good friends that I wouldn't leave the site after SRS. See...you were all nice to me so now you can't get rid of me. Julia the stray cat. LOL.
I appreciate everyone's input here. I'm glad that I have this place to go to when struggling with this process. None of what I said in the original post is stone-cold conviction. I don't want to be isolated, but at the moment, drawing near is a very difficult thing to do. I'm in a place where I don't want to be outed and I don't even want to think about the parts of my body that still don't match and being immersed in the trans community has triggered a lot of those negative emotions and set off some negative defense mechanisms. But I need this community. We understand each other and we know our struggles and we lift each other up, so even though I say I don't want to be a part of it, what I really should be saying is "I want to want to be a part of it." And all of you are truly wonderful souls and I am glad for your advice... sharing my feelings on this thread have brought me closer to this whole community. Thank you, thank you.
From Dena:
"The second view point comes from my therapy group dating back over 35 years. The thought was the transition is a temporary thing that takes you where you need to be. After it's completed, the best indication that is was successful is blending back into society. This means your issues are resolved and you are a part of normal social and work relations without having your transgender past becoming a part of it. It's not so much hiding your past but instead it no longer has a place in your day to day life."
Or OU812:
"I know it might be difficult to hear over the bells still ringing in celebration of depathologization, but the key word is "dysphoria". That means it's a bad trip. Some people see this whole experience as a good trip. My advice is, don't even think about letting people who have a much different and sunnier perspective on this experience impinge on your sense of what is true and how you feel about your place in all of this. Let others do what they feel inclined to do. You have your own life to live.
There are honorable stealthers (many on this forum) and pariah activists (Jenner). If you don't want this matter to define your life, do your best to transition well and live according to your own nature. Living stealth is a beautiful thing and quite frankly we shouldn't need to martyr that ideal just for the whole "trans is beautiful" motif that all too often, for many of us, misses the entire spirit of how all this even came to visibility in the first place."
The bottom line is, it is your life. Live it as you see fit.
Julia good to know you don't plan on leaving us. We were all stray cats when we found this place. :)
Allie we all benefit from others experiences. Living just as our natural self is most everyone's dream here. I'm glad you can have that. Please continue to hang out with us here.
Quote from: JoanneB on September 23, 2017, 06:34:29 AM
My early childhood training, where I learned that beeing seen/known as "Different" is a very bad thing.
I fought that dragon too and its a mean one. Since, i knew it was wrong and frankly a bland way to look at life, i made myself stand out and be different, took the looks, took the times with virtually no normality, smile at people that scowl, correct people that misgender all the while being my sweet optimistic self :) There are days it is really hard.
Most importantly i made sure i had a lot of friends around me that accepted me. I see the culture as i was raised in like the Borg for Star Trek. I will not be assimilated even if it kills me.
Quote from: Allie24 on September 22, 2017, 01:21:21 PM
Over the past several months I have been wanting to distance myself from the trans community and trans activism because, to put it simply, I really do not like being trans or associating myself with anything trans-related. I live my day to day life in stealth mode. I don't talk about it. No one gives me problems for it. And I feel happy to be treated like a "normal" person. As soon as I reveal being trans, I'm afraid of people looking at me differently or treating me differently. Like my female acquaintances will see me as a "gay bestie" and my male acquaintances will become wary of me... like I'll start preying on them or something. I also don't want to deal with bathroom problems if someone I know or work with will suddenly develop a problem with me using the women's restroom or locker room at work. And then there is this attitude a lot of people seem to be forming about trans people... especially trans women. They think we're these pushy, chauvinistic, stereotype-obsessed, predatory, fetishistic, lesbophobic jerks... they call us SJWs and all those fun buzzwords Internet people like to use. The last thing I want is someone leaping down my throat or thinking I'm gonna start giving them a lecture on how not to be a "transmisogynist" and start acting like a drag queen with super exaggerated mannerisms... ugh. I'm not even super-political. Transitioning isn't a political statement to me. I just want to live my life. That's it!
And I guess you can say it's not all about discrimination. I don't really like being in the trans community either because it reminds me too much of where I have come from... the fact that I was born male and have to TRANSition. I don't connect with other trans women really well. I also don't talk about gender or have as much pride in my gender as others in the community do. I told my therapist that I felt that pride in the trans community is like having pride for being diabetic. To me, I have a mental illness and I am undergoing treatment. I don't want to talk to anyone about it and I sure as heck don't want to shout it from the rooftops.
But anyway, this has become a long and rambling post. Bottom line, this whole attitude is giving me a sick feeling and I don't really think it is a very positive attitude to hold. That said, these things that I think and feel are strong so they're not easily given up. And in the world we are living in today, if I have a chance at dodging discrimination, I don't think I'm wrong to take it. Everyone wants to feel safe, right?
I don't know. Is there anyone here who has similar feelings and can maybe help me sort this all out? I don't want to be disconnected from my people... I think it's wrong that I am, but all the same, I'm having trouble diving in. Not to mention that I can be pretty judgmental of the appearance and passing-ability of other trans women (it's a defense mechanism, I do it to boost my self esteem, but only in my head, I could never vocalize the things I think in there).
I know this all might make me sound like an unkind person but I'm just struggling. I started this transition process in 2015, and at that time I celebrated it, but now I'm just bitter. So much has changed, and the political atmosphere I think has a lot to do with that.
Advice?
-Allie
I think it is really quite easy to understand where Allie is coming from. Some of us do not view that very difficult process of changing our sex as something to be celebrated. I saw it as something to get behind me as quickly as possible. Some of us just want to get through the process quietly and then get on with our lives as the men and women that we are. Some of us do not want to be something other than than just plain boringly normal people, not some special protected class. Some of us, certainly a tiny minority, do not enjoy nor need to be told how to think. Some of us enjoy being individuals, following our own path using our own best judgement and not subject to some doctrine or belief enforced by others.
The catch 22 is that none of us enjoy being seen by society as mentally ill, and yet we need the designation of mental illness to access healthcare that is otherwise unaffordable. It puts us in an awkward spot.
Quote from: rmaddy on September 25, 2017, 10:28:01 PM
The catch 22 is that none of us enjoy being seen by society as mentally ill, and yet we need the designation of mental illness to access healthcare that is otherwise unaffordable. It puts us in an awkward spot.
I know my opinion may not be the most popular one here but based on my experience I would say that what I have is some form of mental illness. Whether it be psychological or neurological or both... I don't know. Science isn't there yet. What I do know is that the feeling of gender dysphoria is debilitating and inhibits my functioning in almost all areas of my life. Prior to treatmemt I was reclusive and avoiding relationships and afraid of intimacy. I also felt fairly certain that by the age of 30 I would have had enough and would have tried to kill myself. That to me is not a sign of a healthy mind. But after much therapy and beginning transition a lot of these things turned around for me.
Mental illness gets a bad rap. Plenty of people have depression, but would you say they are all insane and a danger to themselves? Of course not. Gender dysphoria, like depression, is an illness that should be recognized, but not stigmatized.
Transition, to me, is by no means an ideal. Ideally I would be either a cis male or cis female. Ideally, I wouldn't have to depend on doctors to help me feel at ease in my own skin... but I do. Healthy people don't need doctors. Sick people do. Healthy people don't want to maim themselves to alleviate distress brought on by specific body parts. Healthy people don't consider suicide as an alternative to living as the sex they were born as. (All of these feelings are derived from my experience, so I understand that not everyone might have experienced dysphoria this way.)
Transition is one of the only methods doctors have to treat this illness, and it works for me. But I think that there are alternatives as well. Detransitioners experience gender dysphoria but are not helped by transition and must seek other methods. Methods that the psychological community have yet to recognize as valid courses of action for gender dysphoric people.
Society needs to change it views on mental illness, and understand that transition is a method of healing a certain type of illness and that the illness, by no means, affects the character of that person.
... this is really not something I can easily condense into a single commemt. Hopefully that all made some sense.
Quote from: rmaddy on September 25, 2017, 10:28:01 PM
The catch 22 is that none of us enjoy being seen by society as mentally ill, and yet we need the designation of mental illness to access healthcare that is otherwise unaffordable. It puts us in an awkward spot.
I agree with what Allie has posted. Gender dysphoria is medically treatable. I cannot understand why some here would want to stygmitize it. Nor do l understand why some seem to find difficulty accepting a diversity of thought.
Quote from: Complete on September 25, 2017, 11:25:19 PM
I agree with what Allie has posted. Gender dysphoria is medically treatable. I cannot understand why some here would want to stygmitize it. Nor do l understand why some seem to find difficulty accepting a diversity of thought.
I don't recall anyone here stygmatizing gender dysphoria or having difficulty accepting a diversity of thought. Some members were taken aback by the language in Allie's original post, but they quickly came around to supporting her.
I agree that gender dysphoria is medically treatable, but unlike most of what society regards as mental illnesses, it is ultimately treated by altering the body rather than the mind. If it can be called a mental illness, it is treated by trying to make what society regards as a "false" belief into a correct belief.
If I can be briefly insensitive, it reminds me of the song Lily the Pink, which goes
"Old Ebenezer thought he was Julius Caesar, so they put him in a ho-o-ome,
where they gave him Medicinal Compound, now he's Emperor of Rome!"
Quote from: MaryT on September 26, 2017, 07:20:32 AM
I don't recall anyone here stygmatizing gender dysphoria or having difficulty accepting a diversity of thought. Some members were taken aback by the language in Allie's original post, but they quickly came around to supporting her.
I agree that gender dysphoria is medically treatable, but unlike most of what society regards as mental illnesses, it is ultimately treated by altering the body rather than the mind. If it can be called a mental illness, it is treated by trying to make what society regards as a "false" belief into a correct belief.
If I can be briefly insensitive, it reminds me of the song Lily the Pink, which goes
"Old Ebenezer thought he was Julius Caesar, so they put him in a ho-o-ome,
where they gave him Medicinal Compound, now he's Emperor of Rome!"
Just be thankful it's treated with the methods it's treated with today. In the dark ages, the 40s, 50s, and 60s, it was treated with Aversion therapy, ECT, and Lobotomies.
Quote from: Julia1996 on September 26, 2017, 07:28:11 AM
Just be thankful it's treated with the methods it's treated with today. In the dark ages, the 40s, 50s, and 60s, it was treated with Aversion therapy, ECT, and Lobotomies.
True, things have improved. Even Johns Hopkins has come back around to supporting SRS.
Quote from: Julia1996 on September 26, 2017, 07:28:11 AM
Just be thankful it's treated with the methods it's treated with today. In the dark ages, the 40s, 50s, and 60s, it was treated with Aversion therapy, ECT, and Lobotomies.
For some. Not all. Gender transition was a hard treatment to get. You had scientists like Harry Benjamin, who were sympathetic to gender dysphoric individuals and willing to treat them, but then you had other, less sympathetic folks, who thought it best to employ the methods you describe above.
There was a lot of gatekeeping then, and very few clinics/doctors willing/able to provide treatment. Christine Jorgensen had to go all the way to Europe to have her surgery done.
Also, treatment protocol required that you change your name and address and cut ties with family in order to avoid being outed. As horrible as that is though, considering the times, it was better that you remain anonymous because people could do some horrible things to you if you were ever found out.
We've come a long way since then!
Quote from: Allie24 on September 26, 2017, 11:19:37 AM
Also, treatment protocol required that you change your name and address and cut ties with family in order to avoid being outed. As horrible as that is though, considering the times, it was better that you remain anonymous because people could do some horrible things to you if you were ever found out.
This is partly true and partly myth.
If you were married, you were required to get divorced. You were also expected to "pass", blend in, be stable and prove you could take care of yourself and adjust. You were expected to fit the traditional binary stereotype which included being heterosexual in your new gender. They did suggest that it might be best to move to a new city when starting over but I don't think that was required? There
were a lot of hoops to jump through.
In 1974, Dr. Norman Fisk out of Stanford proposed the term Gender Dysphoria because it was recognized some folks still benefited from the transition process that didn't meet the strict diagnostic criteria in use up until then. This also helped to consolidate some of the prevailing theories of the era on how people came to be trans. This was pretty heretical at the time but eventually the standards were relaxed and have continued to be so until until today where the standards and requirements are extremely lax compared to what they were in the past.
From my own experience as an obviously trans child from the 1950's that was first taken to a doctor in 1965 when I was 10, none of the many I saw had a clue about transsexualism, particularly in children. I do know that many that presented with this condition were subject to barbaric therapies or institutionalized but then again, life wasn't so great for homosexual folks either back then. In a lot of ways, being just a kid they had no idea what to do with, I was pretty lucky.
In spite of my youth and how obvious my situation was, I was smart enough to keep my mouth shut about what was really going on because I indeed feared being taken away from my parents and put away somewhere. By the time I was 15/16, my situation had become intolerable and outside of the school environment most assumed I already was a girl. My folks recognized what was going on for me even if I didn't completely and they spent months and months trying to locate a specialist that might be able to help me as resources outside of some of clinics doing this work were hard find. It wasn't until 1972 when I was 17 that I did meet a doctor that knew what was what and I got put on hormones before starting my senior year of high school. I completed social transition upon graduating in 1973 and had SRS in 1977 at 22.
If it matters, I kind of hate being trans too. It isn't something people know about me and it isn't something I want them to because it is none of their business. That doesn't mean though that I hate myself for being trans.
One thing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is that no matter how stealth you or how well you're blended, you'd better get used to being trans because you always will be. Even someone like me that transitioned as a teenager and has had a full "normal" life (I'm almost 63), not being born female is something I've always had to deal with, even if only in my own mind. I still need to take hormones. I still need to dilate and I still feel obligated to tell partners at some point in time in serious relationships.
But like I said though, I don't hate myself because of it, just some of the crap you have to deal with at times and also again, most of that is in my own head. If I chose to or let it, this could make me unhappy and frustrated but I've learned over the years that it's not really that bad. Considering there was no other alternative for me, I've made the best of it and have had a pretty terrific life in spite of getting off to a rocky start.
Work on the things you can change and don't sweat the ones you can't. It may take time but you will find a place of peace with all of this.
Quote from: Lisa_K on September 26, 2017, 01:58:17 PM
I do know that many that presented with this condition were subject to barbaric therapies or institutionalized but then again, life wasn't so great for homosexual folks either back then.
My parents, especially my mother, were unsympathetic to my desire to be a girl. Then again, considering attitudes up to and beyond that point, it is unlikely that any loving parent would want their child to be trans or gay. "Pretending to be a woman" and homosexuality were both crimes even in Britain, and during that period I lived in more conservative countries. Even today, some Susan's Place members live in countries where the state could have them put to death if their "crimes" were discovered.
Quote from: Lisa_K on September 26, 2017, 01:58:17 PM
Work on the things you can change and don't sweat the ones you can't. It may take time but you will find a place of peace with all of this.
Thank you for your insight, as well as your additions/corrections to the information I had provided.
I'm at this weird middle place in the process where I appear female in every way except genitalia and it's both frustrating and confusing. I would love to have SRS someday, but I do have some fears about it... it appears to be a very physically traumatic surgery and I don't know if I could mentally handle that. It is also wayyyy expensive. For the time being I will settle for an orchiectomy so at least there is no testosterone in me anymore and that is one less pill to take.
Some days are harder than others. I believe you when you say peace will come with time... I wish I could be at that point.
Hi, Allie24.
Just be yourself. Say what you must and live each day for you and no one else.
I do feel the world is coloured by everyone's idealistic views. Live and let live.
I am not a woman I will always be XY. That is a hard accept but accept it I do.
Paula, X.
Quote from: Allie24 on September 26, 2017, 02:50:46 PM
.....l'm at this weird middle place in the process where I appear female in every way except genitalia and it's both frustrating and confusing. I would love to have SRS someday, but I do have some fears about it... it appears to be a very physically traumatic surgery and I don't know if I could mentally handle that. It is also wayyyy expensive. For the time being I will settle for an orchiectomy so at least there is no testosterone in me anymore and that is one less pill to take.
Some days are harder than others. I believe you when you say peace will come with time... I wish I could be at that point.
It is my opinion, based on my own personal experience, that eventually you will find the peace you seek. What you are dealing with has no easy answers. I will not blow happy kumbaya pinkness at you and tell you that everything will work out great. It might, but the truth is, that is up to you.
This "weird middle place" that you refer to....that is dysphoria. That is what causes some of us to do what ever is necessary to make that dysphoria go away. Some can live with that physical disconnect between our minds and our bodies. I could not. I did whatever l had to do to get things fixed. Yes it was incredibly scary yes it was immensely expensive. Nevertheless the alternative was living in the "weird middle place" forever, depending on others to accept me rather than accepting myself as that congruent individual that l am.
Yes. Some days will be harder than others. That is just life. Get used to it. Learn to thrive, to love to live. LIVE. That is what you were meant to to.
Don't worry I pretty much feel exactly like you, transitioning for me is only to fix the mess in my brian and the dysphoria I get from any male-related activities.
I live in a religious atmosphere, and that gives me more confusion since I'm not against my religion at all actually I'm quite religious and also a patriot, even though many people come against me from a "religious point of view" and my country doesn't legalize Transitioning.
I'm pretty judgy to other TransWomen and I hate it, I can see when someone is trans and that gives me fear that I'll be the same (not trying to be mean at all, also I don't discourage the women neither).
Hi, h180!
I see that you are new here, so I want to welcome you to Susan's.
Please feel free to contribute to more recent, active threads and to start your own theads. I invite you to stop by the Introductions forum (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html) to tell the members about yourself. Here is some information that we like to share with new members:
Things that you should read
Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) | Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html) | Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.) |
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html) | Cautionary Note (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,82221.0.html) | Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866) |
Wow an old thread just got revived! I'm in an odd position on this one, because I'm semi passable. I'm five foot seven, so I blend in easily in most places—unless someone takes a second look and notices the size of my hands and feet. It is usually the men who stare, but other than one guy who sexually harassed me about a year ago, they never do more than stare.
But even if I were 100% passable, too many people know me. I'm too well known in the L.A. legal scene to ever be stealth. So I focus on being feminine, cute and charming—and on enjoying my femininity after so many years of deprivation.
At 55, I don't have time to wish I were a cisgender girl. I have too much living to do in the years I have left. Besides, I sure can look like a geeky cute teenage girl if I want to, and that's what I am inside anyway. So why spoil the fun by longing for some ephemeral thing I can't have?
As a guy I wanted to own a Lamborghini but I couldn't afford one. So I went to the racetrack in Vegas and rented seat time and drove laps in one. I got to have the experience and the memories and that was enough.
As a girl I have my moments, and I am going to have as many of them as I can in the time I have left on this earth. And that is enough.
Happy Valentine's Day everyone!
Quote from: Allie24 on September 22, 2017, 01:21:21 PM
Over the past several months I have been wanting to distance myself from the trans community and trans activism because, to put it simply, I really do not like being trans or associating myself with anything trans-related. I live my day to day life in stealth mode. I don't talk about it. No one gives me problems for it. And I feel happy to be treated like a "normal" person. As soon as I reveal being trans, I'm afraid of people looking at me differently or treating me differently. Like my female acquaintances will see me as a "gay bestie" and my male acquaintances will become wary of me... like I'll start preying on them or something. I also don't want to deal with bathroom problems if someone I know or work with will suddenly develop a problem with me using the women's restroom or locker room at work. And then there is this attitude a lot of people seem to be forming about trans people... especially trans women. They think we're these pushy, chauvinistic, stereotype-obsessed, predatory, fetishistic, lesbophobic jerks... they call us SJWs and all those fun buzzwords Internet people like to use. The last thing I want is someone leaping down my throat or thinking I'm gonna start giving them a lecture on how not to be a "transmisogynist" and start acting like a drag queen with super exaggerated mannerisms... ugh. I'm not even super-political. Transitioning isn't a political statement to me. I just want to live my life. That's it!
And I guess you can say it's not all about discrimination. I don't really like being in the trans community either because it reminds me too much of where I have come from... the fact that I was born male and have to TRANSition. I don't connect with other trans women really well. I also don't talk about gender or have as much pride in my gender as others in the community do. I told my therapist that I felt that pride in the trans community is like having pride for being diabetic. To me, I have a mental illness and I am undergoing treatment. I don't want to talk to anyone about it and I sure as heck don't want to shout it from the rooftops.
But anyway, this has become a long and rambling post. Bottom line, this whole attitude is giving me a sick feeling and I don't really think it is a very positive attitude to hold. That said, these things that I think and feel are strong so they're not easily given up. And in the world we are living in today, if I have a chance at dodging discrimination, I don't think I'm wrong to take it. Everyone wants to feel safe, right?
I don't know. Is there anyone here who has similar feelings and can maybe help me sort this all out? I don't want to be disconnected from my people... I think it's wrong that I am, but all the same, I'm having trouble diving in. Not to mention that I can be pretty judgmental of the appearance and passing-ability of other trans women (it's a defense mechanism, I do it to boost my self esteem, but only in my head, I could never vocalize the things I think in there).
I know this all might make me sound like an unkind person but I'm just struggling. I started this transition process in 2015, and at that time I celebrated it, but now I'm just bitter. So much has changed, and the political atmosphere I think has a lot to do with that.
Advice?
-Allie
Dear Allie,
I can understand trying to avoid criticism; being an outcast sucks. I have been an outcast my entire life. As a young "boy" I was quiet and reserved; I preferred to be alone and draw, write or read. Everyone always made me a target for their cruel and senseless bullying. For a very long time I was terrified that people would somehow find out my secret that I wanted to be a girl.
After about 25 years living as a very empty person, I had finally had enough. All my life, I have dealt with situations that would mortify most people, but I stood through the fire and held my ground.
My point is that even though you are terrified to tell anyone, you will eventually have to inform SOMEONE who knows you. Personally, I think you're somewhat of a coward. It sounds mean, I know, but some of the things you said in your post upset me also since successfully transitioning as a female is THEE most important thing to me in my life other than my husband. I have had my life literally threatened for being transgender, I have been stared at and have had people openly tell me that I am disgusting or that I'm just a man pretending to be a woman.
Du er ikke alene. You are not alone.
Don't think that you have to fight this war on your own; you have friends and people that care about you. You may also be surprised when you do actually tell people because you just don't know people well enough until you infringe upon their comfort zone. I found out that the people who raised me (older brother and grandparents) plus my deadbeat dad, thought I was weird and disgusting; that there must be something wrong with me.
My mom passed away 4 years ago so, I will never know how she feels about it, but knowing my Mom, I am confident she would have been accepting. My sister, my bestie and my "brothers" (boys that I am not related to, but I grew up with them and we love each other as sister and brothers) are accepting of me. My ex beat friend also refused to acknowledge me as Emily or even as a woman so, I ended our friendship of 11 years because I simply don't need any negative influences in my life.
Honey, being transgender is not easy; it is probably one of the hardest things i have ever had to do. You will face gargantuan obstacles that will challenge every fiber of your being; who you are and who you will become will hinge solely on how you deal with these trials. Will you be a coward and hide behind false ideologies and hate? Or, will you fight, raise your sword and hold your ground? Be a warrior. Be strong. Let not the world bring you to your knees.
One final note: if you hate being transgender so much then why don't you stop taking hormones? That is the only way you will be able to avoid having to tell anyone. But if you're really trans then these feelings will never go away and you will be miserable for the rest of your life. Personally, I couldn't handle the inner torment any longer. So, here I am; making myself into a circus act so I can be happy.
The choice is yours; make the right one.
Sent from my LG-M153 using Tapatalk