Something I'm very interested in and which I think is under examined is the phenomenon whereby a person's penile raphe line will darken when undergoing m2f HRT. From http://t-vox.org/medical/hormone-replacement-therapy-trans-female :
"The line that runs down the underside of the penis and down the middle of the scrotum,
the peno-scrotal raphe (where the urogenital folds fused early in the womb), will darken."
The fact that the line darkens when higher levels of estrogen are introduced into the body indicate that it could be seen as a "gauge" of sorts of a person's estrogen levels. Given this, could it perhaps be the case that if a person has a dark raphe line before beginning any form of HRT, that they have a natively higher level of estrogen in their system/an imbalance between estrogen and testosterone?
I'm a cis male who has always had a very prominent and dark raphe. Aesthetically, I dislike this and if estrogen
therapy causes the line to darken, would that mean reducing estrogen and or increasing testosterone would cause it to lighten? Whilst I have no feelings of gender dysphoria/desire to be trans, I do think certain things indicate a potentially higher estrogen within (relatively low sex drive being just one).
Isn't the significance of estrogen causing a darkened raphe in transitioning people radically overlooked? There's hardly anything regarding this subject matter online.
So, what I'd be very interested to hear, from as many users here as possible, is this:
Did you have a dark raphe line prior to starting HRT?
Did your raphe line darken after HRT? Has anyone for any reason begun HRT then ceased, and seen the line darkening reverse?
Has anybody had estradiol tests prior to transitioning which revealed high native estrogen levels, and if so, did you have a dark raphe line?
And does anyone think that if high native estrogen levels can cause a dark raphe, could an anti-estrogen cause it to lighten?
Apologies for the rather mealy OP, quite a few questions there, I know. Any responses or speculation will be appreciated :)
I'm picturing 22,000 transgender women all bent over trying to look right now! :laugh:
Welcome, Sevenarella, and thanks for a smile. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
Welcome to Susan's Place. It's way way way for me to check that out but I have something else for you to consider. Hormones prior to birth completely control the external development of our body. The male penis is the same material that becomes the clitoris and labia of a woman. As the result, the raphe would have an equivalent for a genetic woman so it might be time to do a little exploring with your best female friend for some additional data. ;D
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Quote from: Sevenarella on October 12, 2017, 07:40:48 PM
Something I'm very interested in and which I think is under examined is the phenomenon whereby a person's penile raphe line will darken when undergoing m2f HRT. From http://t-vox.org/medical/hormone-replacement-therapy-trans-female :
"The line that runs down the underside of the penis and down the middle of the scrotum,
the peno-scrotal raphe (where the urogenital folds fused early in the womb), will darken."
The fact that the line darkens when higher levels of estrogen are introduced into the body indicate that it could be seen as a "gauge" of sorts of a person's estrogen levels. Given this, could it perhaps be the case that if a person has a dark raphe line before beginning any form of HRT, that they have a natively higher level of estrogen in their system/an imbalance between estrogen and testosterone?
I'm a cis male who has always had a very prominent and dark raphe. Aesthetically, I dislike this and if estrogen
therapy causes the line to darken, would that mean reducing estrogen and or increasing testosterone would cause it to lighten? Whilst I have no feelings of gender dysphoria/desire to be trans, I do think certain things indicate a potentially higher estrogen within (relatively low sex drive being just one).
Isn't the significance of estrogen causing a darkened raphe in transitioning people radically overlooked? There's hardly anything regarding this subject matter online.
So, what I'd be very interested to hear, from as many users here as possible, is this:
Did you have a dark raphe line prior to starting HRT?
Did your raphe line darken after HRT? Has anyone for any reason begun HRT then ceased, and seen the line darkening reverse?
Has anybody had estradiol tests prior to transitioning which revealed high native estrogen levels, and if so, did you have a dark raphe line?
And does anyone think that if high native estrogen levels can cause a dark raphe, could an anti-estrogen cause it to lighten?
Apologies for the rather mealy OP, quite a few questions there, I know. Any responses or speculation will be appreciated :)
The 'perineal' raphe exists in both men & women by the ways. I remember mine was always raised, dark, and frankly looked like a large scar. Honestly still does and I'm ... lets just say I'm all girl down below now.
I think 'different strokes, different folks' lol... like its probably one of those things thats slightly different on everyone.
I had a dark raphe before hormones and my blood work prior to starting HRT showed E and T levels that were perfectly normal..
And if you are wanting to lighten the skin, your best option is a dermatologist..
It may vary from person to person. Mine darkened when I was on hormone blockers. Since I had my bilateral orchiectomy, and no longer needed blockers, the raphe went back to it's normal color.
Thanks for the welcomes and responses everyone.
Quote from: Lady Sarah on October 12, 2017, 09:34:42 PM
It may vary from person to person. Mine darkened when I was on hormone blockers. Since I had my bilateral orchiectomy, and no longer needed blockers, the raphe went back to it's normal color.
That's very interesting in that it does show the color is in flux depending on the hormone level and once darkened, can then be lightened.
Something else noticed: dark raphes are everywhere in transsexual porn, quite commonplace in gay porn but seemingly rare in hetero porn.
I have to reiterate that it's amazing how incurious science is about this matter.
I've seen some suggest it could be an indicator of some form of an intersex condition but I'm not really convinced on that.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 12, 2017, 07:48:55 PM
I'm picturing 22,000 transgender women all bent over trying to look right now! [emoji23]
Welcome, Sevenarella, and thanks for a smile. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
... Can't ... Not... Look...
Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk
Quote from: meganjames2 on October 13, 2017, 05:37:03 PM
... Can't ... Not... Look...
Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk
... Made me look!
Mine looks 'normal' not light or dark, and hasn't changed after 14 weeks HRT.
Sent from my MI 5s using Tapatalk
This page explains the raphe in detail: Q&A: What Is The Perineal Raphe? | Kinsey Confidential (https://kinseyconfidential.org/perineal-raphe/) This post (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,154477.msg1293841.html#msg1293841)explains why it darkens:
QuoteAny birthmark or pigmented skin area will appear darker and more prominent if that area of skin becomes less stretched (for example, the dark line on a scrotum that has shrunk due to HRT, or an areola on a breast which has lost volume due to weight loss).
I've never heard this suggested as a biomarker of TG inclinations. Thomas Bevan's book Being Transgender: What You Should Know (https://www.amazon.com/Being-Transgender-What-Should-Know/dp/1440845247) only lists the 2D:4D finger ratio and inclination towards sinistrality for MTFs. Bevan has a sciences background so I'd expect he'd bring up the coloration of the raphe if it had any bearing.
Quote from: Sevenarella on October 13, 2017, 05:31:13 PM
I have to reiterate that it's amazing how incurious science is about this matter.
It's not that science lacks the curiosity, but I can see getting funding for research being a problem.
Mine was light and it darkened considerably within a year of being on HRT. It seems to have also become more raised.
Jeez, I must check haha. I have a hole between my anus and me penis that I should get checked.lol
Never changed in any way.
You could have it bleached. People pay money to have their buttholes bleached. Eww. :icon_blah: :icon_yikes:
Quote from: Julia1996 on October 16, 2017, 02:53:43 PM
You could have it bleached. People pay money to have their buttholes bleached. Eww. :icon_blah: :icon_yikes:
I was going to have my butthole bleached. The problem is that I am not sure whether to pour it over his head, or make him drink it.
Quote from: Lady Sarah on October 16, 2017, 06:38:50 PM
I was going to have my butthole bleached. The problem is that I am not sure whether to pour it over his head, or make him drink it.
Thats hilarious. Lol
I have been on herbal HRT which consists of every herbal supplement I could find in scientific studies and articles for estrogenic or anti-androgenic effects for about a month ( licorice root, peppermint, raspberry leaf, dandelion root, chasteberry, rhodiola rosea, saw palmetto, green tea extract, fenugreek, (and I tried spearmint tea but I couldn't stand the taste.)). I have been on Spiro extremely low dose for just a few days. Most recently I noticed that my perineal raphe had darkened by a very significant degree. I never even really noticed it before because it was the same color as everything else, and suddenly it became very dark. This did cause me some alarm, because it doesn't necessarily improve its appearance. And I wondered if it might be a negative reaction to the stuff I was taking. But I have since search for various resources on the subject, and it appears to indicate that there is some sort of estrogenic response in that tissue as if it were the labia in female genitalia.
I didn't expect any effects this soon after beginning supplementation etcetera. But in fact it is not merely a change in color, it has changed in texture. It does still concern me a bit, it's almost as if it were disintegrating, like a zipper coming unzipped. It has become much wider. On one hand I'm excited to be seeing the very first effects of my HRT, but I'm disturbed because this is not what I had expected, and I don't know how far it will go.
(Side note, for what it's worth, the only other effects I have noted so far is that my nipples have become always erect and very sensitive to pain, not apparently sensitive in a good way. Oh, noticed a little bit of acne where there wasn't any before.)
Quote from: kelly_aus on October 14, 2017, 04:47:06 AM
It's not that science lacks the curiosity, but I can see getting funding for research being a problem.
That's probably true and it's frustrating. Gender is a spectrum and this physically indicated phenomena deserves greater investigation rather than simply stating that it occurs and a shrug of the shoulders.
Quote from: Nevoxia on November 03, 2017, 12:47:23 AM
I have been on herbal HRT which consists of every herbal supplement I could find in scientific studies and articles for estrogenic or anti-androgenic effects for about a month ( licorice root, peppermint, raspberry leaf, dandelion root, chasteberry, rhodiola rosea, saw palmetto, green tea extract, fenugreek, (and I tried spearmint tea but I couldn't stand the taste.)). I have been on Spiro extremely low dose for just a few days. Most recently I noticed that my perineal raphe had darkened by a very significant degree. I never even really noticed it before because it was the same color as everything else, and suddenly it became very dark. This did cause me some alarm, because it doesn't necessarily improve its appearance. And I wondered if it might be a negative reaction to the stuff I was taking. But I have since search for various resources on the subject, and it appears to indicate that there is some sort of estrogenic response in that tissue as if it were the labia in female genitalia.
That's why it's curious if a cis male on no hrt has a dark raphe. Thanks for sharing.
I like to think of it as a racing stripe.... There's your daily Zen. Sorry, couldn't resist ;D
Quote from: laurenb on November 08, 2017, 06:35:56 AM
I like to think of it as a racing stripe.... There's your daily Zen. Sorry, couldn't resist ;D
Omg that's hilarious lauren
Quote from: Sevenarella on October 12, 2017, 07:40:48 PM
Something I'm very interested in and which I think is under examined is the phenomenon whereby a person's penile raphe line will darken when undergoing m2f HRT. From http://t-vox.org/medical/hormone-replacement-therapy-trans-female :
"The line that runs down the underside of the penis and down the middle of the scrotum,
the peno-scrotal raphe (where the urogenital folds fused early in the womb), will darken."
The fact that the line darkens when higher levels of estrogen are introduced into the body indicate that it could be seen as a "gauge" of sorts of a person's estrogen levels. Given this, could it perhaps be the case that if a person has a dark raphe line before beginning any form of HRT, that they have a natively higher level of estrogen in their system/an imbalance between estrogen and testosterone?
I'm a cis male who has always had a very prominent and dark raphe. Aesthetically, I dislike this and if estrogen
therapy causes the line to darken, would that mean reducing estrogen and or increasing testosterone would cause it to lighten? Whilst I have no feelings of gender dysphoria/desire to be trans, I do think certain things indicate a potentially higher estrogen within (relatively low sex drive being just one).
Isn't the significance of estrogen causing a darkened raphe in transitioning people radically overlooked? There's hardly anything regarding this subject matter online.
So, what I'd be very interested to hear, from as many users here as possible, is this:
Did you have a dark raphe line prior to starting HRT?
Did your raphe line darken after HRT? Has anyone for any reason begun HRT then ceased, and seen the line darkening reverse?
Has anybody had estradiol tests prior to transitioning which revealed high native estrogen levels, and if so, did you have a dark raphe line?
And does anyone think that if high native estrogen levels can cause a dark raphe, could an anti-estrogen cause it to lighten?
Apologies for the rather mealy OP, quite a few questions there, I know. Any responses or speculation will be appreciated :)
HI just to confirm yes I'm new. Now that's out of the way yeah it's funny I just checked for like the millionth time in my life and yeah I'm Caucasian and though down there it's like a tan the line is like a bruise dark (and I'm confident it's not from tucking). I'm pretty hrt and didn't see this line till I was oh 12-13 and now I'm 23 and finally realised who I was at 22 and opened up at early 23 after a long period of denial. Definitely something I would love to see research on to confirm 100%.