Hi - National Coming Out Day for me means something completely different.... I had my court date for a legal name change. I can now do legal things in the name of Denise. BUT timing is important.
1) Social Security Administration must be first.
The Bureau Of Motor Vehicles in Indiana is all electronic so your SS information must match and SS takes over night to process your request in their computer. From there it takes 10-14 business days to get your card.
2) I was born in New Jersey and to get my NJ birth certificate updated costs $2 plus $25 for the first copy and $2 for each beyond that. To change the name, you send a letter (with payment, a copy of your original B.C. and a certified copy of the court order) to the proper address. There was no time frame given for getting it back, but I'm hoping a week or two. I sent the paperwork over-night.
3) The next day comes driver's license. Make sure you bring all the paperwork. In the next few years, you'll need a lot of paperwork to renew your driver's license with a name/gender change or not. If you are changing your gender make sure you have the proper forms for your state signed (original, not a fax) by your doctor. In Indiana, no surgeries are required. The license will come in the mail in about 2 weeks.
The car registration was done as I waited, but the new registration card will be mailed.
4) Passport... unfortunately you need your new SS card, new driver's license (with a new picture) and your updated birth certificate to get the passport. SO... I'm in limbo to apply for it for a few weeks. Argggghhhh... this is the one I really wanted.
Other things to update:
1) my employee records (Need the new Social Security Card, 2 weeks)
2) update my bank/investment/loan accounts (need to do this in person to sign a new signature card)
3) Credit cards - call the number on the back of each card
4) Insurance - medical/car/life/home/rent
5) Last Will and Testament - I think this needs to be updated
6) If you are listed in anyone else's will I suggest request an update to <new name> (fka <old name>) so there will be no confusion during a stressful time.
7) medical records *
8) School records
9) Licenses and certifications (FCC for example)
10) consumer reward programs
--- I'm sure there's more but for now I'll stop.
P.S. The judge misgendered me 100% of the time during the hearing. BUT when we ran into the judge later (we had lunch and the judge walked in) he commented as we left "Have a nice day ladies." That made it all better.
Social security is definitely the axis on which the wheel of document change turns, even though a) your SS card doesn't list a gender, and b) the first SS official I spoke to didn't even know that there was a gender associated with my file. The fact that SS change is possible only due to an Obama era executive order is scary. 45 could undo it in a fit of pique, but so far he has chosen to throw other fits first. Ditto, by the way, on Passports. If you're at all concerned about the window of legality slamming closed, the order is:
1) Physician's statement (yeah, I know, but you'll need it)
2) Court order
3) SS
4) Passport
The last two can be done together, and literally everything else WILL be done, pretty much without question if you have the court order and the SS gender designation change.
I still keep my file of 30+ identity change documents, but most of them were corporate, and rather easy.
Quote from: rmaddy on October 12, 2017, 11:44:43 PM
Social security is definitely the axis...the order is:
1) Physician's statement (yeah, I know, but you'll need it)
2) Court order
3) SS
4) Passport
The last two can be done together, and literally everything else WILL be done, pretty much without question if you have the court order and the SS gender designation change.
I still keep my file of 30+ identity change documents, but most of them were corporate, and rather easy.
Unfortunately I was very clearly told that since my govt issued photo ID (Driver's License) picture didn't look like me (not even close :) I needed to get a new DL before doing the Passport. It was also implied that even with the court order the birth certificate needed to be updated (at least the name) too.
I'm very nervous about the door closing by 45.
Thanks for sharing. South Carolina is pretty tough as far as name change is concerned. I went to the Social Security office and they wouldn't change the name on my card from Tommy to Tommie without a court order or birth certificate. I was born in North Carolina, and their attitude toward transgender is hostile. I want my name and gender changed on my DL, but I need these other documents first. I need my DL to match my expression as female. I'm scared to death of being stopped for a traffic violation and proving to the officer I'm the person on the DL. Needless to say I drive the speed limit. ;D I had my photo changed on the DL and it is more androgynous, so maybe that will help. You can renew your license any time you want at the DMV. Do you meet with the judge without others present?
I did not update my drivers license, and last week I applied for regular ten year US Passport with updated gender marker and name. Process is basically a new passport application + doctors letter + court order for name change + $165. Since this is handled similar to a new passport application you can't mail it in, you need to apply in person.
Court order for name change was easy in Seattle, other than lightening my wallet by $180. The judge, court clerk, everyone in the courthouse was polite - nobody used my old gender. I was going to say courteous but that might be a pun.
My endocrinologist provided a nice letter stating I have undergone medical treatment. When I showed up with paperwork for new passport, nobody asked for my drivers license or birth certificate. My old passport was used for ID.
US Passport update process is here:
https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/passports/information/gender.html
I'm stopping by the Social Security office today so I can be done with the federal stuff. One less thing to worry about.
https://travel.state.gov/content/passports/en/passports/information/gender.html
The difference in the 2 year vs 10 year passport issue is going to be your physicians letter which states that you have had appropriate treatment to transition from male to female or vice versa. The words "appropriate treatment" are no longer legally defined (Thanks, Obama!), but need to be in the letter.
For clarification, the only real body change I had done at the time (2014) was laser of my facial and body hair, and I did not think at the time that I would go on HRT or have surgery. I guess I had hoped for a brow lift roughly when I turned 50, but not FFS per se. The important thing, which I don't think I can repeat often enough, is this:
Work very closely with a medical/counseling team that accepts the reality and the diversity of gender change.
Interestingly, I believed I had been living my RLE for about 5 years already in 2014. My physician did not dispute this, but he believes, in retrospect (as written in my letter for GCS) that 2014 was the beginning of the RLE. I think also, in retrospect that he was correct. Until then I presented feminine, but I didn't confront the hard choices on how that would play out in my life. Nevertheless, I was legally female because:
1. I said so, and consistently lived this out
2. My doctor said I was appropriately treated (by virtue of regular counseling)
3. A district court judge ordered that my request for name change be enacted
#3 did not change my gender. Your state may operate differently, but he only ordered the name change. Gender change involved me pulling out the physician's letter for almost every document change request. Getting social security changed made everything else happen very quickly.
Quote from: Tommie_9 on October 13, 2017, 07:29:53 AM
... Do you meet with the judge without others present?
In Indiana there is a requirement to post name changes in the newspaper. There is a little known paper in the county that is used to publish legal announcements that I used.
Then the court room had 5 people, my moral support friend, the judge, the court stenographer, someone who was being trained in stenography and me. It took 5 minutes and done.
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Quote from: Denise on October 13, 2017, 01:13:57 PM
In Indiana there is a requirement to post name changes in the newspaper. There is a little known paper in the county that is used to publish legal announcements that I used.
Then the court room had 5 people, my moral support friend, the judge, the court stenographer, someone who was being trained in stenography and me. It took 5 minutes and done.
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What township did you do this in? I'm waiting on the letter from my endocrinologist to proceed further. I've got my court papers set up to file. I also have a certified copy of my birth certificate. What else might I need that they aren't telling me? I'll be filing in Lake County as soon as I get the letter, and any other papers I may need.
Y'all need more progressive government! You're like the Alabama of the Midwest. :P
Quote from: Artesia on October 13, 2017, 01:50:44 PM
What township did you do this in? I'm waiting on the letter from my endocrinologist to proceed further. I've got my court papers set up to file. I also have a certified copy of my birth certificate. What else might I need that they aren't telling me? I'll be filing in Lake County as soon as I get the letter, and any other papers I may need.
There is a full package of forms you will need on the Indiana gov web site. Print them out. All of them. Leave nothing blank unless it's really not applicable.
Make 4 copies of everything. (You may only need one or two but make 4 anyway.). When you file you start with the clerk of the court. They register everything and they told me "oh you don't need these pages..." DO NOT lose those necessary pages. You will need them the day you go to court!!
Then, in Porter county at least, they send you to the judge's receptionist to schedule a date/time. Then back to the clerk where you pay the fees (it's not free, I don't remember how much) and get everything stamped and filed. I believe they keep a copy and give you one back.
Immediately go to the paper and submit the ad for the paper. There was some confusion with judges in Indiana if the gender marker change (if and only if you were born in Indiana) needed to be payed too. The Supreme Court of Indiana said "gender marker change does not need to be in paper." The ruling went on that in some cases the name change publication requirement could be waived too, but special cases only.
4-5 weeks later you will get a proof of publication form from the news paper in the mail. You need that and one on the "unnecessary" documents from the initial visit. Plus... Bring original birth certificate with at least one photo copy, your driver's license and at least one photo copy of that too.
Show up at least 30-45 minutes prior to the scheduled time and check in with the judge's receptionist.
Be prepared to be misgendered 100% of the time in the court house. Nooooooooo one got it right on either visit.
Artesia, I'll private you some personal observations that are not really for publication.
Denise
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I just got back from the local Social Security office. They accepted my application to update gender marker and name using my old drivers license for ID (since my passport is now being processed), along with court order for name change and the "has had appropriate treatment" letter from my endocrinologist.
They said my new Social Security card will show up in a couple weeks. Gender marker isn't printed on the card but it's in the electronic records other agencies look up.
This one didn't cost anything. Although I suppose that makes sense because it's a card that entitles me to pay income tax...
Quote from: Kendra on October 13, 2017, 06:53:59 PM
... everything you said ...
I'm surprised you could get your Passport in your new name (or did I misread that?) before getting everything else done. They wouldn't accept my application without updated SS card, Birth certificate and driver's license or state issued ID.
One thing I can tell you is that there is a "spring in my step" now that wasn't there before. I'm more confident because I'm truly not living a double life anymore. My male name is practically gone and I'm thinking like Denise not xxx now and I just feel better and that is surprising to me.
Confirming, I passed both federal ID application interviews (US Passport and Social Security card) using my old drivers licensen which has my previous gender marker, name and photo. The only steps I took before this was obtaining letter from doctor and a name change in county court.
Passport rules should be identical across the US. But the various Passport Acceptance Facilities (https://iafdb.travel.state.gov/) might be interpreting rules differently. I went to the county courthouse in Seattle - my application was handled by same clerk who scheduled my court hearing for name change. I had about a dozen local options for this, a few post offices and city hall offices. If you were rejected for having old ID, maybe try a different office - or the same place when the person who rejected yours has the day off. ;)
Quote from: Kendra on October 14, 2017, 05:10:37 AM
Confirming, I passed both federal ID application interviews (US Passport and Social Security card) using my old drivers licensen which has my previous gender marker, name and photo. The only steps I took before this was obtaining letter from doctor and a name change in county court.
Passport rules should be identical across the US. But the various Passport Acceptance Facilities (https://iafdb.travel.state.gov/) might be interpreting rules differently. I went to the county courthouse in Seattle - my application was handled by same clerk who scheduled my court hearing for name change. I had about a dozen local options for this, a few post offices and city hall offices. If you were rejected for having old ID, maybe try a different office - or the same place when the person who rejected yours has the day off. ;)
I wondered about going to a different facility but the clerk said they called the passport office... Maybe I got two people with issues.
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Quote from: Denise on October 13, 2017, 07:40:02 PM
I'm surprised you could get your Passport in your new name (or did I misread that?) before getting everything else done.
All that's needed to change just the name on your U.S. passport is the court order (whether it be because you're transgender or some other reason). The other documents are to support the gender marker change.
Whatever office (passport, ss, etc), always make sure that you know the legal requirements, print them up, and take them with you. It is usually a safe assumption that a gender marker change request will be the first for the clerk you encounter. They won't know how or even whether it can be done. Be ready to show them that the law and/or policy is in your favor.
Quote from: rmaddy on October 14, 2017, 10:48:56 AM
Whatever office (passport, ss, etc), always make sure that you know the legal requirements, print them up, and take them with you. It is usually a safe assumption that a gender marker change request will be the first for the clerk you encounter. They won't know how or even whether it can be done. Be ready to show them that the law and/or policy is in your favor.
I think I'll head over to the Chicago post office Monday.
Thanks to all!!
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If you're heading into Chicago I recommend the courthouse instead of a post office. I checked the fed site and it lists the Cook County Courthouse as a passport acceptance facility. Based on what I experienced a county clerk handling passport applications in a large city might consider this routine, since they also handle name changes for transgender individuals.
Quote from: Kendra on October 14, 2017, 11:35:25 AM
If you're heading into Chicago I recommend the courthouse instead of a post office. I checked the fed site and it lists the Cook County Courthouse as a passport acceptance facility. Based on what I experienced a county clerk handling passport applications in a large city might consider this routine, since they also handle name changes for transgender individuals.
Thanks. I work 4 blocks from there.
Again, you are all wonderful.
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In New Hanover county in NC I have to get an FBI background check, state background check, 2 letters from residents of the county who have lived here for six months or more notorized stating I have a good character, a notorized statement that I don't owe child support or back taxes, post my notice of name change on the courthouse door for at least 10 business days but no more than 30, pay the court fees, then petition the court to accept my name change. I'm still waiting on my fbi background check to come, 10 weeks after requesting it grrrrrrrrrr!
Quote from: Pisces228 on October 14, 2017, 04:56:20 PM
In New Hanover county in NC I have to get an FBI background check, state background check, 2 letters from residents of the county who have lived here for six months or more notorized stating I have a good character, a notorized statement that I don't owe child support or back taxes, post my notice of name change on the courthouse door for at least 10 business days but no more than 30, pay the court fees, then petition the court to accept my name change. I'm still waiting on my fbi background check to come, 10 weeks after requesting it grrrrrrrrrr!
OMG! It's almost worth moving to another state for 6 months!
Quote from: Denise on October 14, 2017, 09:38:14 PM
OMG! It's almost worth moving to another state for 6 months!
lord if I haven't thought about it.
Quote from: Denise on October 12, 2017, 11:13:16 PM
P.S. The judge misgendered me 100% of the time during the hearing. BUT when we ran into the judge later (we had lunch and the judge walked in) he commented as we left "Have a nice day ladies." That made it all better.
The misgendering in court may have been legally required until your name and gender change on the documents was taken care of. Having to refer to the plaintiff by their legally appropriate name and terms sounds very likely in order for the change to be official. Hence once the court was adjourned he was able to use the correct term. If that's according to State Law or official courtroom procedure policies in your State, then there was nothing he could do about it.
HUGS!
Quote from: Denise on October 13, 2017, 01:13:57 PM
In Indiana there is a requirement to post name changes in the newspaper. There is a little known paper in the county that is used to publish legal announcements that I used.
Not sure this will help you since you have already completed this step, but it is still worth noting, nearly all states have an exemption clause for legal name changes needing to be posted if it puts the life of the plaintiff in jeopardy. It is primarily set up for victims of frequent abuse, stalking, etc, and for those in witness protection. It usually necessitates a lawyer arguing your case for you, but is fairly routine nowadays.
HUGS!
Quote from: Pisces228 on October 14, 2017, 04:56:20 PM
In New Hanover county in NC I have to get an FBI background check, state background check, 2 letters from residents of the county who have lived here for six months or more notorized stating I have a good character, a notorized statement that I don't owe child support or back taxes, post my notice of name change on the courthouse door for at least 10 business days but no more than 30, pay the court fees, then petition the court to accept my name change. I'm still waiting on my fbi background check to come, 10 weeks after requesting it grrrrrrrrrr!
The public notice requirement (courthouse door posting) should have an exemption clause, see my above post. No sense in giving yourself undue risk. Stay Safe.
HUGS!
Quote from: JennyBear on October 15, 2017, 01:30:27 AM
The misgendering in court may have been legally required until your name and gender change on the documents was taken care of. Having to refer to the plaintiff by their legally appropriate name and terms sounds very likely in order for the change to be official. Hence once the court was adjourned he was able to use the correct term. If that's according to State Law or official courtroom procedure policies in your State, then there was nothing he could do about it.
HUGS!
I had the same thought. It was more warning to expect it. The really icky part was the clerk for the judge did it too. On just about every sentence. Almost enough to be considered harassment.
Oh well, it's done and over! Thank God.
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I wasn't misgendered anywhere in the courthouse - not by the judge, the clerk or anyone else. The judge called my case by my old legal name, asked a few questions, signed the order and handed it to the clerk.
My court hearing was for name change not gender marker. For that matter, it is legally possible to have Ken as a female name and Kendra as a male name.
And I returned the courtesy. People in line before me addressed the judge as "sir" but I used the gender neutral term "your honor." Ya never know who out there might be gender stealth - even a judge. They do show up at work in a robe.
I wasn't sure what to expect but I'm fine if someone addresses me as "taxpayer".
Quote from: Kendra on October 14, 2017, 11:35:25 AM
If you're heading into Chicago I recommend the courthouse instead of a post office. I checked the fed site and it lists the Cook County Courthouse as a passport acceptance facility. Based on what I experienced a county clerk handling passport applications in a large city might consider this routine, since they also handle name changes for transgender individuals.
Thanks for the boost in confidence. I sent to the court house at 1:15 and was out of there in 30 minutes with receipt in hand. The challenge was I showed the post office person my old drivers license. Had I presented my temporary paper one all would have been good. DUH.
As you would expect, the person at the court house didn't even blink/pause/... actually for a govt employee, they were quite helpful and at times even funny. It was a VERY POSITIVE experience when one was not expected.
2-4 weeks... tick, tock.... tick......... toooooooccccccckkkkkkkkkkkkk, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
Quote from: Denise on October 16, 2017, 02:57:15 PM
As you would expect, the person at the court house didn't even blink/pause/... actually for a govt employee, they were quite helpful and at times even funny. It was a VERY POSITIVE experience when one was not expected.
See, not all government employees, even ones in LBGTQ hostile areas, are against us. It's just the bigots that get the press, and give the rest a bad name. Glad you had a good experience.
HUGS!
Unelected officials tend to be public servants who believe in the role of government. It's the elected clowns you have to worry about.
Denise, that's awesome! Congrats - and now we are both eagerly waiting for that envelope to show up in the mail.
YAHOO!!!!
I opened the mailbox today and in it I found the ID princess came. I received both my Social Security Card, Vehicle registration and my new DRIVER'S LICENSE!!! Not too bad, just about a week.
Now I'm only waiting for Birth Certificate and Passport.
Wow! Right on.
Quote from: Denise on October 20, 2017, 06:10:03 PM
YAHOO!!!!
I opened the mailbox today and in it I found the ID princess came. I received both my Social Security Card, Vehicle registration and my new DRIVER'S LICENSE!!! Not too bad, just about a week.
Now I'm only waiting for Birth Certificate and Passport.
Congrats!
Quote from: Denise on October 20, 2017, 06:10:03 PM
YAHOO!!!!
I opened the mailbox today and in it I found the ID princess came. I received both my Social Security Card, Vehicle registration and my new DRIVER'S LICENSE!!! Not too bad, just about a week.
Now I'm only waiting for Birth Certificate and Passport.
I wonder why the DMV didn't give you the new license on the spot and mailed it to you instead? Although if you only updated the marker, and not the photo, and did it by correspondence that would make sense I guess.
HUGS!
New policy in Indiana and in other states (Illinois at least) all new licenses are printed somewhere else and mailed. I don't know why but I have a few guesses and all of them involve fraud of some sense. You do receive a temporary paper license that's good for a while (30 days???) and has the picture and all the right (updated) information. So you carry that around as your license. I just didn't bother. (Although I wish I had it with me when I had to replace my Chicago Transit pass which I registered at Denise. But that's another story.)
Quote from: Denise on October 23, 2017, 07:06:59 AM
New policy in Indiana and in other states (Illinois at least) all new licenses are printed somewhere else and mailed. I don't know why but I have a few guesses and all of them involve fraud of some sense. You do receive a temporary paper license that's good for a while (30 days???) and has the picture and all the right (updated) information. So you carry that around as your license. I just didn't bother. (Although I wish I had it with me when I had to replace my Chicago Transit pass which I registered at Denise. But that's another story.)
I would think that that could increase chances of identity theft. Not handing the ID directly to the person that it is for would leave more room for fraud, not less. Putting it through the mail increases it's chance of being lost or stolen. But thanks for the clarification. I hope they don't go / haven't gone to that in Ohio.
HUGS!
Government wants to verify your address by mailing your I'd to you, simple.
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Quote from: elkie-t on October 23, 2017, 11:26:28 AM
Government wants to verify your address by mailing your I'd to you, simple.
Simple but unnecessary. You can use correspondence to verify address. And yes that can be faked, but if you can get the mail at the address on the correspondence, then you can get your ID there. If this is the reason, it's redundant and useless.
HUGS!
Consider this, if you tamper with the mail it becomes a federal offense.
If the licenses are printed in only one location, it's easier to secure it.
You will have a second system looking at the data for irregularities.
Personally I think it makes sense.
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Quote from: Denise on October 23, 2017, 02:51:08 PM
Consider this, if you tamper with the mail it becomes a federal offense.
If the licenses are printed in only one location, it's easier to secure it.
You will have a second system looking at the data for irregularities.
Personally I think it makes sense.
You may have a point there. But then again, I'm a little biased. I live in the ghetto and people go through each others mail and occasionally steal it. I've had letters with holiday money and/or gift cards stolen out of the hallmark they were in. Anything I can get without it being left unattended seems more secure to me.
HUGS!
I will be starting the name change process on Wednesday. A lawyer's office is holding a clinic, and this morning I got an email with the list of what I need to bring. Holy crap, they want every address I've ever lived at. I'm 59 years old and have moved around a bit. I've spent the whole afternoon searching through old licenses, receipts, loan paperwork, club membership cards, etc., and I think I've got them all. Good thing I'm a packrat. I guess it wouldn't compare to a miltary family, but I've found 12 addresses so far.
They also want any criminal cases or traffic violations I've ever had. Good grief, I ran a stop sign 30 years ago, but I sure don't have any details!
BTW, this is being processed in Florida...
Steph
I don't think you need every address you live at. Even for background / security clearance - you need only last 5/10 years...
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Yes, the Florida name change petition requires you to list every address you've lived at since birth. (Their name change forms are some of the most extensive in the country.)
Personally I think that asking for everywhere you've ever lived in your life, even as an infant or small child, is a bit excessive (some people may honestly not even know about those addresses without asking others who knew them if it was before they were old enough to remember). Now something like every address since age 18 or the minimum age you could have a criminal record from would be understandable.