Hello, This is a new account, but I have had another account before and deleted it; so I am starting out afresh. Lots of lovely people on here helped me earlier this year with their wise words and kind advice You all gave me a perspective that was missing and I cherish each and every one of you <Get the slushy bit out of the way first eh?>
SO, confused, I am and months of internet searching has yielded nothing to help - I have been very reticent to post about this on here, as it may be misread by some but I really, REALLY, do not want to upset anyone and realise that my situation is (i think) a little unique (I hope not) and would just like to see what some of you think my best/next course of action should be.
I will try and boil down my 'story' to a little. as it may ramble, but bear with me :)
I have just turned 47, born male, married with a daughter. I never experienced gender dysphoria at all growing up; I always preferred female company, always played female game characters, always liked fashion (and shop for my wife who's fashion sense is dreadful) and never been called macho, butch or a lads lad.. But not effeminate either.
18 months ago, after showering, I looked at myself in the mirror and had a sense of 'ugh' at what I saw. I was thin and masculine, but my mind was disgusted by my hairy body and genitals. This lasted for a few days. A few months later the same feelings came back, more so, this time there was something more, I wanted to look female. I wasn't turned on by this (shocked more like) and it frightened me a little. Again it waned over about a week. To cut a long story short these episodes got more frequent, and more intense. I started sneaking make-up, then clothes. Then dreaming (literally) of being a woman. Full on GD? - I hated everything about my maleness. I even plucked up courage to venture out dressed and loved it, (until an oaf saw through me and started laughing. That was tough.). What was I doing?
I could not get these thoughts out of my head, I have a loving home life. This April I came out to my wife. She was devastated, set rules and generally made a point that if I pursue this I will do it on my own, away from my home, and daughter (and wife) whom I love more than anything. This is when I first came to Susan's - and you lot saved my life.
In that first post (That as i read even today brings me to tears) I mentioned my strange endocrine problems, bought on by a tumour 10 years ago. My wife raised it as a concern, and so did a couple of posters on Susan's.
You see, I do not make any hormones naturally, and take them all via injections, tablets and gels everyday. This includes Testosterone, thyroxine, growth hormone etc etc. I am also a trained microbiologist (geneticist) and had trawled through the scientific literature to see what could be happening. The only thing I came across was Testosterone being automatised into oestrogen (but no link to GD?). So I pursued this with my endocrinologist (I'm in the UK, so NHS).
At first the response from the endo was what I can only describe as transphobic. He refused to test for estrogen, instead testing for testosterone and a few other hormones, they all came back fine and he wrote me a letter that basically said I was (and I quote) 'hypersesxual'...
My letter back to him was straight to the point - Its GENDER, not SEX! did I really have to tell that to a fully qualified doctor? I was still attracted to my wife, I just was female. My thought processes were female (complex emotions, reading people, empathy - all alien to me previous to this) My orgasms were female, (multi, all over, long time coming - pardon the pun) and at this point, my body was beginning to change, developing huge nips, breasts growing, Hips widening and thighs getting rounder, my waist dropped from 34 to 30, my jeans did not fit (and so used that as an excuse to wear female jeans all the time).
That provoked a phonecall from the endo, and he admitted that he had never heard of aromatisation (what?) and he would write to my GP. He did, and he prescribed Tamoxifen. He did not get any blood tests done so I have no idea what my estrogen was like, he had not even examined me to see my gynocomastia, but prescribed treatment anyway.
Okay, this is the bit; I took the first tablet of tamoxifen, and within 4-5 hours the GD was starting to subside - my wife was right? after a couple of days I really felt male again. Though there were a couple of things not right. My libido was non-existant and (conversely) my orgasms were still female. After 6 weeks of tamoxifen the breasts were reducing, but most of the other 'symptoms' were still there, the GD though was gone. Really gone - I just had a guilt and shame over what I had put my wife through. All the clothes and make-up went to charity/bin (a purge I believe its called).
I contacted the endo again, and said that (from researching) I thought anastrozole would be better. Again without seeing me or taking blood tests he prescribed it. This time I asked my GP to take my E2 (estradiol) and Testosterone levels before I started. My E2 was at the top of the 'normal male range' and my T at the bottom. (These ranges are bigger that the dosage MTFs get put on, so way off IMHO). Anastrozole worked as it should, All functions returned to 'normal' within a few days. Body regained male shape, GD was a memory. 6 weeks later I had another E2 (at my request again) and it had halved, average for a 'man' of my age....
Its been three months since then, and, well... this is where I am starting to get confused. I was late one day taking anastrozole by about 4 hours, I then had a whole night of GD, it just hit me, all those thoughts again . But then, since that night, these thoughts are getting stronger and stronger, the GD (Sarah!) is coming back - and I am scared. sorry, but I am, scared to death. I have searched and searched for answers, I cannot find anything about high oestrogen causing GD. So what does that mean? am I transgender, did I just not know? how can that be? All the things I read are about growing up in the wrong body. That's not my story, I can't lose everything and I know I will. That's been made clear.
If anyone has any idea what is going on I would love to know. I am not back to dressing, but I can feel the need, the wanting to be accepted as female, as Sarah...
I have an appointment with my endocrinologist in about 10 days. This is what prompted this post. What do I say to him, do I ask to be referred to some sort of counselling? The anastrozole is causing me huge amounts of pain, muscle, joints and spine; some days I can hardly walk - do I just stop it and let the estrogen take over? Does anastrozole stop working or get weaker, if so what else is there? I'm running out of options...
So what do I do next...
Over to you lovely people. (please be kind, i am kind of fragile at the mo.).
Welcome back to Susan's Place. I may have talked with you in the past but I am unable to figure out where your old account was. In any case to the point of the thread. If your estrogen levels are high, there is a possibility that might need to be explored. You could have a tumor or you might be intersex. Not long ago we had a member who underwent MTF surgery but was experiencing high estrogen levels. The doctors started poking around with ultras sound and body scans found what looked like a partially developed feminine reproductive system. High testosterone levels could suppress estrogen production but a drop in testosterone might result in estrogen levels rising. In addition a woman produces testosterone but converts it to estrogen in the ovaries. In any case for what it's worth, I found the link.
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,229247.0.html
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Let me preface this but saying I am not a doctor, I have a cursory understanding of the endocrine system at best from my own looking into hormones and the like, but not enough to say that my advice is worth much.
So you've got some kind of runaway aromatisation, it may be that your body doesn't process testosterone quickly, then if you block either estrogen or aromatisation, you may be starving your body of hormones. This can affect mood, energy, and bone density among other things, and is very bad if it's happening. I would pursue that to determime if you're "using" your available hormone. Of course the whole endocrine system is very complicated, and I'm not a doctor, and there are numerous possibilities that I don't even know about.
As far as the other issue, "are you trans"...
Afraid only you know the answer. (Read on here a lot that people have managed to get it under control only to have the feelings come back stronger some months or years down the line though, seems to be a common thread)
Hi both, Thank you for responding - i've reread my post and it sounds confusing even to me?
Anyway Dena, yes we have talked before https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,222781.msg1972651.html#msg1972651
In that post I was full on stroppy teen girl - powerful things these hormones eh?
Anyway, I too had thought oestrogen secreting tumour; my current tumour secretes prolactin. When diagnosed it was over 188,000 (a pregnant woman is about 1500? UK measurements) and I found out that high prolactin increases the estrogen receptors in the brain and elsewhere (chest etc). So could say why I react so quickly to it. My real concern is why I mentally react like I do. I am not railing against being female, It feels right and natural. Its almost as if two people are inside my head, a testosterone driven one, and an oestrogen driven one. With one or the other 'taking over' dependant on what is happening with my hormones. Both in battle for existence. Its driving me insane.
I feel like the medical establishment is treating me at arms length, I interpretate that as anti-trans as this seems only to have happened as soon as I mentioned GD. It may just be that no-one knows and distance stops admission?
Generally my biochemsitry was essentially female (T and E at static female levels for about 12 months) and now by taking Testosterone and Anastrozole I am "transitioning" to male - Though it seems to be stalling: If anyone is on these hormones and blockers what have you experienced? Have you had the pain from Anastrozole? Has it seemed to wain over time?
I'm about to implode mentally: can only see darkness - stiff British upper lip can only get you so far...
Why are you not being treated for hyperprolactinaemia if that is what you have?
Sorry I'm just confused by your post.
Hi, Thanks for your reply. I did truncate what is a massive post, but some of it is so complicated that it still remains unclear on first read. Anyway:
I undertook prolactinoma treatment from the day of diagnosis, nearly 11 years ago. It was a massive tumour 5-6cm round, wrapped around the optical cords, and breaking out of the base of my skull into the sinus. Deamed too dangerous to operate on by a (frankly brilliant) neurosurgeon I started on cabergoline. I am on the highest dose of cabergoline allowed and slowly the tumour size and prolactin level have reduced. Tumour is now about 1cm round and prolactin is sub 1000 (UK units). still high, but lower. As the GD problems arose 18 months ago, it seemed the prolactin levels started rising too but an MRI showed the tumour shrinking a little so nothing was done. This is another worry, I have read that transwomen are denied HRT if they are found to have a prolactinoma? However my oestrogen levels were higher than HRT would maintain - Confused is the word - thats what I am in so many ways.
Oh, and the tumour completely destroyed all pituitary function (including the stalk TMI?) So I have no control over any major hormones in my body. Hence taking Growth hormone, Thyroxine, Cortisol and Testosterone, plus a slew of Blood pressure regulators, statins and now an antiestrogen. I also developed a condition known as HS (painfull skin lesions) about 2 years ago (and I think related to the oestrogen levels, but no scientific proof) and take a antibiotic for that. Then the painkillers - mainly co-codamol and an anti-migrane drug.
Despite all that I still manage to run my own business and am active and healthy (You would not know anything was wrong with me if you met me).
My apologies on several levels.
So you have a treated prolactinoma as a result of an invasive tumour and have undergone some excellent surgery, as far as technique!
You have resulted in a profound ongoing endocrinological state that would be well documented by your medical team and treated with replacement hormonal therapy. You are in a functional state to run a business, well done.. awesome!! But best of all you are healthy and by the read of your post in good spirits. Well done! You have faced difficulties that would level most and are a spirited person. I admire you.
But I'm now confused about what the problem is?
Is it that you are struggling with gender dysphoria? Is it concerns on your hormonal balance?
Your medical team must know of your hormone issues intimately. As far as GD we can try to help.
Hi Cindy,
Thanks for taking the time to try and understand, it is very confusing - and I am too.
I can seemingly control my GD by 'playing' with my hormone levels. When T is dominant I am male, When E2 is dominant I am female. I personally have no issue with either state, but my Wife does. I also cannot determine what actual state I should be in, i'm happy in both, however male keeps everything level, female would change everything - business, relationship, status.
Starting on an aromatase inhibitor, brought me back into 'male' mode. Everything hunky-dory...
The anastrozole is starting to fail, 'Sarah' is coming back - I believe I am on the maximum dose; In the UK anastrozole is not prescribed to males, and a 'special licence' was used to prescribe it to me.
my 'medical team' (as you put it) do not seem to have a clue and have gone from 'go away your a pervert' to 'have what you want but don't bother us'. I am meeting the endo next week.
I am scared of talking about GD to them, should I? I am scared the anastrozole is the last defence and its crumbling.
Frankly I am just scared, confused and worried about the future. I am just grasping at the nettle, in the hope someone out there can say, "Ahh, yes I think I know whats going on" and give me some sort of clue how to continue...
I'm sorry, I probably should never of bothered you nice folk with this - sorry.
Oh Sarah!
Shut up on the not bothering people crap.
If there is a problem then there is a solution.
Firstly you need a:.... is the usual, but let us think.
OK step back. The issue is that you are having thoughts and ideas about yourself that do not conform with those of others. You are rational. You see your medical issues and you accept self limitation (to a point).
So where do your desires and thoughts come from? They are not chemically driven so .. they are real.
Now what we need to do is to convince others, for the sake of getting the medical attention we need.
This is where a therapist does help.
Was there a psychiatrist or a clinical psychologist on your team?
If not is there an after care care program that you can trigger?
There is no reason to be scared, no matter how scary it all is.
Hi Cindy,
No, I have never had any psychological or psychiatric counselling, its never been offered. The only time it came close was when I stopped producing growth hormone (4yrs post diagnosis), that caused suicidal depression - As growth hormone is an expensive drug (and health care in the UK is free) I had to 'pass' an evaluation but it was basically a dozen or so questions given to me by a nurse - needless to say I 'passed' and was given the injections, that I have to take for the rest of my life. It sorted the depression though, and I would not want to go through that again.
Do you think that is where I should take this? to talking therapy? is it not chemically driven?
I really don't know??? ? ???
Quote from: SoupSarah on October 19, 2017, 08:06:50 AM
Do you think that is where I should take this? to talking therapy? is it not chemically driven?
Just because it is chemically-driven, it doesn't mean that there are no psychological consequences. Fixing the chemistry might solve the problem, but the psychological consequences will remain until the chemistry is fixed. So talking therapy is a good idea.
I am wondering if you have ever been to therapy? This sounds more like a psychological condition than a hormonal one. I have never heard of a hormone imbalance causing gender dysphoria in a guy.
I am the girl alter of a Dissociative Identity Disorder System (full on stroppy teen :) My Primary alter never had gender dysphoria growing up. When he was 48 out of the blue he also started to experience increasingly frequent and intense episodes of overpowering disgust for his male body and wanting to look like a girl, but also felt like a normal guy.
Primary was terrified and started counseling to find out what was happening. His therapist diagnosed him as a "late onset transsexual in denial." But as right as it felt to be a girl it felt just as wrong. Us alters did such a good job of protecting him from his feelings and memories it took 3 1/2 years of therapy for the doctors to figure out he had Dissociative Identity Disorder from childhood sexual and psychological abuse. What Primary was experiencing was just me, wanting to live my life after all those years. You can read more in my intro post at https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,218553.msg1934547.html#msg1934547
OMG Flytrap - that really resonates. She is a different person, when Sarah is around there is no mistaking she is totally female, and just wants to be female. Totally different personality to me. As I said above, its like two people fighting over the same body... wow, I just have to process that for a moment,
And, to answer your question, no, I have never seen anyone other than doctors and specialists.
I'll read your link now - I will have questions later!
I'll just say it again OMG
Okay, I read, and then read wikipedia, and so on - and have a brief overview of what DID is about. Some of it rings true, some not so much. But here is how my head seems to work.
Sarah, my female side - seems to want to take over at times. I cannot let her do that. She first took control around November last year - I did not name her, she named herself. She is a nice person, I like her, but she hates my body and doesnt really want me around, that makes me a bit depressed. When Sarah is in control, she has access to my memories and I am aware of what she is doing. My wife can tell the difference and has even commented on it. My wife does not like Sarah she wants me. I think she sees her as a threat? Sometimes I go to bed and Sarah is in control, her dreams are of her, one particularly is of her getting married, white dress and all? She lays differently in bed and finds it difficult to sleep my wifes snoring particularly annoys her and sometimes she goes into the other room. It doesn't bother me, never has not for the 28 years we have been together. Wow, as I type this it seems as if she really is looking over my shoulder. I should mention that my post (listed in reply to Dena's comment) was her - full on emotional. She keeps telling people she's 30 something that's a lie (and I hate lies).
I just noticed I posted earlier 'Its like two people inside my head'...
So, flytrap, how does this work? How do I process this? Who do I need to see - how can I safely explore if this is the root cause.
however, as for trauma, there is none really:
I wasn't abused as such as a child. I grew up in a strictly religious house and I used to get belted by my mother. She would hold me by the wrists and dangle me whilst she hit the backs of my legs. But that was just my mom - and it never really effected me. The tumour 10 years ago lost me a prestigious very well paid job, but it would of probably killed me anyway. AND it allowed me to be the homemaker and raise our daughter. - actually, strangely - Sarah see's my daughter as hers too, she mothers her far too much, where as I tend to do activities, science and inventing with her - She is happy either way and we have a huge HUGE bond.
Well more confused now, eh?
The answers to your questions are pretty personal, SoupSarah, so I will send you a PM soon.
~Flytrap
Quote from: SoupSarah on October 19, 2017, 01:50:35 PM
however, as for trauma, there is none really:
I wasn't abused as such as a child. I grew up in a strictly religious house and I used to get belted by my mother. She would hold me by the wrists and dangle me whilst she hit the backs of my legs. But that was just my mom - and it never really effected me.
This has gone to a place where flytrap knows far more than I do however what you posted hints of DID. Alters are created in order to shield the primary from something very unpleasant. The fact that it didn't effect you indicates that an alter took the pain for you so you don't have unpleasant feelings.
I was well behaved when I was young but I was punished a few time as the result of fights started by my brother or sister. I clearly remembered the pain for a long time after and there were no gaps in my memory. While I don't hold it against my parents, I felt the punishment was not deserved.
Thanks all - youv'e given me a glimmer of hope and direction. Look forward to that PM flytrap. thanks
Sarah xx
Flytrap - thanks for the PM - I really need to get a message to you or VA but unable to PM (I should never of deleted My old account). Its too personal for an open forum. Any ideas? Its really important. Sarah xx
SoupSarah, I reported your last post to the moderators with the note that you were trying to reach a moderator so someone could turn on your messaging (IIRC, you need to hit a certain number of posts). You could try making a series of placeholder replies to your thread to see if you can turn it on?
Thanks VA - I thought of posting, but did not want to spam the forum and with where my mind is at at the moment I doubt I could be of help to anyone else.
I have read almost every post of yours and flytraps I could find - fascinating - hopefully if I get PM status soon I can tell you a little more, but as you are aware its all a little personal and upsetting, and not something I would be happy sharing on a public forum.
Talk soon. Sarahxx
Thanks VA, got your PM, and no she did not scare me :-) in-fact it was just amazing what she said and how she said it. I have been lurking on susans for about 12 months and something did not fit - that prompted this thread - I am a total complete female, I am different to him completely, we have vastly differing interests, read different books my only problem is his body - Though he hasn't got an issue with it which is why it was so confusing.
I'll continue on another post, as I think if I get 15 I may get PM - at least the site has stopped me typing in the robot stuff now - Only so many time i can type Hawk!
I dont mind sharing this, it may be usefull to others:
he talked to his wife last night about DID. I expected her to think it just crack-pot, but she is a clever and capable woman and I love her as much as him. Anyway to our amazement, after a few questions, she said 'Yes, I can see that. She is totally another person" and then "Thats why I find it difficult to relate to her!" - yes she acknowledged me and called me her!! She went on to say she could tell because I was more chatty and my gestures and posture were different.
But I think she thinks she can 'fix' it and by that I think she wants to kill me? Too harsh? I don't know.
The weird thing is I was not there at the conversation, and only now picked that bit up (about her calling me her)..
Ahh im rambling - try one more post?
Ok this should get me to 15?
Anyway - its aproaching school kicking out time her in the UK, and as such he has to go and pick my daughter up in an hour and Friday afternoon is 'daddy time' something they both look forward to having done ever since she started school.
btw flytrap I tried to go onto the site you suggested (bgn?) but it would not allow me to create an account? Maybe as I am not US based, not sure.
Sarah, the short answer is fifteen posts. The better answer is go back and read the links that Dena gave you earlier in this thread. There's a lot of important information in there that you need to know.
Hugs, Devlyn
Ahgg, thanks Devlin
VA I just typed a huge PM as it was allowing me to send them, then the post i requested got deleted, stopping me sending, so it just went poof into the ether. After this post I will respond to your last PM,
Sarah xx