Is it realistic to think that I can transition in secret, and live two lives?
One where everyone who currently already knows me will never know the truth about me, especially my family, while setting out to be open and honest with all the -new- people that I meet who don't currently know me? I want to create a partition between my old life and my new life. Where they will never mix.
I am 32 years old and just now graduating with a bachelor's degree. I still live with my parents. I am just now beginning to transition. I have never told anyone that I am transgender except my doctor. Soon I will be leaving home, probably leaving the state, maybe even leaving the country, to do a master's degree. Chances are that I will never return home to live or to work, only to visit family. So I am thinking I can openly and honestly transition in whatever new place I go, without ever having to tell my family what I have done. And on the occasional holidays and such where I do return home for a visit, I basically present as male. In my mind it seems like a totally plausible plan. They will never be the wiser.
As an optional part of that plan, depending entirely on what kind of company I can find work for, I may choose to present as male at my job as well, living only my private life as a woman.
If anyone has tried this and succeeded or failed, let me know. Or if you have any opinions or thoughts on the matter at all. I'm interested in anything anyone has to say on this idea. I am almost impossible to offend. I prefer brutal honesty.
I wouldnt underestimate the strain on your mental health should you try and live as a dude at work but be real at home, it really did my head and that was only for a short while. And i honestly think that secrets like this don't tend to stay secrets if you still asociate with the people your hiding it from. But i'm younger than you and a different person so take my thoughts with a grain of salt.
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Hi Nevoxia;
It is not easy by any stretch of the imagination. I have transitioned twice. The first time I transitioned to full time over one weekend with considerable help from two cis women friends, that made me get out of the limbo land of being male at work and female at home and weekends. It helped that the week before I was made redundant and the girlfriends threw all my make clothes out except one pair of trousers that over dinner that night they made me cut up with some dress making shears. Mind you I had already had a whole lot off HRT and a variety of beauty treatments and electrolysis. I then lived full time for 2.5 years, only de-transitioning because of financial commitments and the impossibility of getting meaningful employment as a woman except for office clerical and secretarial jobs. Mind you in those two and half years I was helped enormously by my cis girlfriends and in the last 6 month by being in Polyamorous relationship,. living with the couple.
On my second time around, after 4 years of HRT basically I just couldn't dress as male any longer as I kept on getting Male fails. My breasts, hips, skin and facial features, large lips etc had become just too female. I just wonder now why I waiting so long. Mind you living two lives was just very stressful too.
Sometimes I was just so used to being called Judith in the day to day things in life that when I had to present as make, I sometimes signed a cheque in my old male name, or signed an email in my male name. Its too hard. Also of course I became just so dysphoric living as a man, but when in a dress or skirt, heels some make-up etc I just come a completely different person. These days I feel naked going out without without lipstick and mascara.
Judith
If it was me I would take the opportunity of moving to another country to come out...to everyone! Start in the new country living a 100% as a female and then come out to your family when you feel ready. Living a double life seems way too much work and a big headache.
This is called "compartmentalization" -- a fancy word for having different lives. :D
Whether you can pull it off or not will depend on several factors. First, as others have pointed out, there's yourself. If you're transitioning because you're gender dysphoric, you'll likely find that you dread going into the old life so much that it'll either become cut away entirely or, more likely, a social milieu in which you'll eventually come out. Frankly, a lot of transitioners take this path when realizing that family/old life won't be supportive of transition, and as such this isn't a bad strategy.
I had a similar experience with work -- I was full time everywhere except at my job. Why? Two reasons. First, I didn't want to jeopardize my source of income, and I knew the procedures I needed (electrolysis, facial surgery, breast surgery, bottom surgery) were going to be expensive. Second, I always planned to move on from my transitional status, meaning I wanted to live a woman's life without any kind of narrative disclosure. Not coming out at work would help to preserve my privacy -- because the story is just too juicy not to share, and it will spread given enough opportunity. And it was hard! The dysphoria, I mean, being constantly misgendered, but at least I was being misgendered predictably and understandably.
I eventually quit that job and started a new career, without any ties to the old life.
So what does it take to compartmentalize your life? You might have the psychological fortitude, but it takes more than that, which gets me to the "second" of the list started back in the first paragraph: logistics. You'll be transitioning someplace new and distant, which is great. You just pretty much don't spread your story like wildfire, to keep it from circling back home. And this goes both ways -- the less you speak of your past, the less you'll be haunted by it in your new life.
Here are some tips: Get your therapist letters for HRT and surgery prepared in advance. Also, get your name changed officially in advance, and not in your home town; before classes start, get this name change submitted to the university. This way, when you arrive in your new location, you won't ever have to present as "deadname" and you can graduate properly gendered, and you'll be able to access whatever medical resources you need to finish transition. Of course, everyone there will still know, but they'll only know you as a transitioner. Which may be fine for you, but if not, don't fret, for college towns tend to be pretty insular and you can always move on to someplace with no ties to it (unless you hope to get a job in academia). Also, be sure to keep up with voice training and electrolysis -- they make a huge difference in eliciting the proper gendering.
Compartmentalization isn't for everyone. It's an extra layer of work, and it generally isn't a viable long-term strategy psychologically speaking; it's better as a temporary fix. It can be very useful exercise, though, if you're planning to practice non-disclosure in your female life, both in terms of protecting your narrative as well as building up the habits necessary to keep it that way.
All that said, I still live a compartmentalized life. I have three compartments: non-disclosed, closed narrative, and open narrative. Non-disclosed is the vast majority of my life -- in my work and social life, I'm just another woman. With my family, we practice "closed narrative," meaning that we all know what happened but it's not a subject for discussion and my wishes for non-disclosure with the rest of the world are respected. And then there are the parts of my life where the narrative is open -- like this forum. (I also have a few friends, all of whom practice non-disclosure, with whom we'll bounce back and forth between open and closed narrative practices. Like, one night we'll have open narrative and talk about the experience, and another night -- or any time we're out on the town -- closed narrative rules apply.)
In all my compartments, I'm properly gendered. What I couldn't bear would be to have a box of dysphoria in my life.
Reminds me of bosom buddies. I think it would be ok in the short term with the plan to go ft, like 3-6 months later, but beyond that, it would be stressful and confusing not to mention challenging.
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That's actually how my System does it and it has been working great for over 8 years now.
I am the girl alter of a Dissociative Identity Disorder System. The primary alter is a guy and we live totally separate lives. He's been on a transition level dose of estrogen HRT for 7 years now because chemical castration makes us feel safe. But the body is tall and skinny and nobody ever has any problem seeing Primary as a boy and me as a girl.
Neither of us is strong enough to take over the body. Primary is retired so it works out pretty well. I like 2 days a week to live my life and Primary takes care of things the rest of the time. I have my own credit card, ID, girlfriends, go to yoga, wear my beach to the bikini, pretty much do anything any other girl does except I won't take off my panties in the locker room and I don't date cuz I am not old enough to like boys. Primary's wife knows all about me but neither of us want her to see her husband looking like a girl. I use Primary's voice when he is fronting for the System when I want to talk to her.
It's pretty easy for us to live this way because we are crazy, but I am thinking it would be really hard for a healthy person to keep up this level of compartmentalization without screwing up and letting the cat out out of the bag.
I lived part-time for 18months. Authentic at home and in public, but old-self at work and around my children.
I found it hard and damaging, and something I personally couldn't have maintained for any longer.
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I am one of the few, I guess, that makes this work (for now). I did have a few advantages to start. First of all, I already have a feminine body to start with (very long girly legs with a small torso). It was miserable for me growing up because, obviously, I was not accepted by any group. I secretly did wish that I was born female from about 5 years old. I was really unhappy growing up. Not a new story on this forum, I know.
I really did wish to be feminine when I was married for 10 years -- growing out my hair, etc. But the wife would not accept. So after my divorce over 10 years ago I started a few things (completely secret) like shaving my legs and wearing certain things at home that greatly helped to calm me down. Then 18 months ago I started HRT. The results for me have been profound and unexpected. Today I know I cannot hide these breasts that are still growing pretty aggressively. I am still trying to do it, seriously. But my clothing options are becoming impossible in order to hide. I have said here a million times, with HRT be careful what you wish for. I am nervous and overly self-aware of my appearance if I dare wear anything tight-fitting outside home. You can see some of my older posts that details all this. I won't rehash here. I admit the stress gets to me sometimes. I am really just trading my old-life stresses for new ones, it seems.
Can you do all this in secret like I have so far? Seriously, it all depends on how you react to HRT. The stuff is transforming me so much that, for me, come spring and warmer weather, and if I dare to grow another cup size (I am now C-cup, even though some bra websites size me bigger) I will continue to try to hide, but I just don't know how well I can function when strangers stare as they do so much now already. Again, read some of my old stuff. Then you can decide.... ???
I sort of am doing this, though I view it as a temporary thing.
I moved to a far way state, in part to transition here. I'm still not out to my family, as I am not thinking they'll be accepting based on their reactions to various trans news stories, or my friends from high school and college, who mostly live in the same small town my family lives, and might say something to my family.
I do still visit, but only during the winter, where it's easier to hide the changes, though I'm a bit worried they'll notice the lack of beard stubble if my electrolysis goes as far as I'd like. They surely would notice the lack of body hair if I visited during the summer, and since I did laser on my arms, there's no growing it back. Haven't done it on my legs yet, but not wanting to have to grow out my leg hair for over a month for it to look normal. Family was pushing me hard to visit this last summer too, even offering to pay for my airfare.
Had a few close calls also, with people wanting to visit me though. This is something you might have to be prepared for. It is a small world, and people do travel all over the place for business and other reasons.
I do plan on coming out eventually though, just after I fully transition, and they can't try to talk me out of it.
Quote from: flytrap on October 19, 2017, 12:24:44 PM
That's actually how my System does it and it has been working great for over 8 years now.
I am the girl alter of a Dissociative Identity Disorder System. The primary alter is a guy and we live totally separate lives. He's been on a transition level dose of estrogen HRT for 7 years now because chemical castration makes us feel safe. But the body is tall and skinny and nobody ever has any problem seeing Primary as a boy and me as a girl.
Primary is retired so it works out pretty well. Neither of us is strong enough to take over the body. I like 2 days a week to live my life and Primary takes care of things the rest of the time. I have my own credit card, ID, girlfriends, go to yoga, wear my beach to the bikini, pretty much do anything any other girl does except won't take off my panties in the locker room and I don't date cuz I am not old enough to like boys. Primary's wife knows all about me but neither of us want her to see her husband looking like a girl. I use Primary's voice while is fronting for the System when I want to talk to her.
It's pretty easy for us to live this way because we are crazy anyway, but I am thinking it would be really hard fo a healthy person could keep up the level of compartmentalization without screwing up and letting the cat out out of the bag.
Most of us probably aren't in that bucket.
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I've been doing it for a bit over a month now, and it's crap.
Switching voice back and forth, packing two people's worth of clothes on business trips, worrying about makeup residue at work, etc all just grates on me. Going completely full time as of the 30th as per my conference with HR today so thankfully the end is nigh.
Wow there was some truly great responses there!
The various different sides have really given me some ideas and some context to envision my future. Thank you very much for your various experiences.
I think I might have what it takes to compartmentalize, and I'm certainly willing to give it a try. For me it is a critical necessity, because like others have mentioned, my family would not be supportive at all. Based on their reactions to trans issues in the news, trans characters who appear on TV shows or movies. They have a very negative view of what they see and hear. I do not love them any less for their views, I even understand in a strange way. But if I were to come out to them, it would be full-scale apocalyptic fallout.
Even if I did not lose them completely, I do not think their hearts would ever stop breaking. I wish to spare them that. The pain that they would suffer would be even greater than the pain I suffer by hiding it. If I believed it was 100% inevitable that they would find out about it, then I simply would not transition at all. I am only giving myself permission to transition because I do believe that I can compartmentalize my new life far from home. My parents are in their late 60s, and don't think they have traveled more than one state over in the last 30 years. So I have no fear that they would try to visit me or the area of my new life.
And as it was mentioned, if my body does develop particularly well, I will just simply wear more clothing to keep it well hidden. Fortunately, all of the relevant holidays are during the cold season anyway. Harder to hide things, like being hairless, would actually be easily explained. They know I have a problem with ingrown hairs, even if I don't shave, I tend to create ingrown hairs. So I could simply tell them I've reached my wit's end and eliminated the problem entirely. I think they would accept that without suspicion. And I've had long hair since I was 16, so that wouldn't be strange either.
The most difficult part would probably be changing my voice back and forth, assuming I ever successfully develop a female sounding voice. As for my dysphoria, my dysphoria is strictly self perceptual, not necessarily the way others perceive me. For example, when I look at my body I'm constantly resentful of it. But it does not cause me any dysphoria for people to refer to me by male names or pronouns. I mean, I guess it's too soon to say that for sure, because I have never presented myself as female in public. I suppose I may become so comfortable with it that going back is painful. But presently, presenting myself as male does not cause me any psychological distress. It's all about what's going on under my clothes that gives me dysphoric pain.
I appreciate the advice about transitional steps to take before I go to my new school. Those are things I had not considered and would not have thought of doing. I wouldn't be moving until sometime between April and August next year, so I need to start the process of changing my name, etc before I start classes next year. Thank you very much for those details!
Quote from: Gertrude on October 19, 2017, 03:48:11 PM
Most of us probably aren't in that bucket.
I am wondering why you felt it was important to single out my experience from the rest of the bucket?
Quote from: Nevoxia on October 19, 2017, 04:24:23 PM
I appreciate the advice about transitional steps to take before I go to my new school. Those are things I had not considered and would not have thought of doing. I wouldn't be moving until sometime between April and August next year, so I need to start the process of changing my name, etc before I start classes next year. Thank you very much for those details!
You can check to see if your school will let you go with a different preferred name if you don't get all of that wrapped up ahead of time. I noticed that my school seems like they do that when I was getting forms to change the name on my records and get an updated diploma.
I guess this whole different lives compartmentalization question relies significantly on how well I can pass as a female after my transition, AND how well I can pass as a male as well.
I'm quite new to the in-community discussion and so I wasn't aware of all the terms. So thank you also for explaining to me the concept of non-disclosure and closed and open narrative. I don't actually want to be transgender, I want to be cisgender female. I'm sure that's a very common wish, but since I cannot have that, the next best thing seems to me to be nondisclosure. Simply passing and accepted as a cisgender female. That would be my ultimate goal! But I've only just started this process I cannot imagine with any reliability how well my transition will go. I don't know about my face or my shoulders or ribs or shoulders or even my mannerisms. My biggest doubt is going to be changing my voice, maybe.
My current pre-transition, pre HRT stats:
I currently weigh about 135 lbs, the lowest I ever got was 118 lb, but I was working out hard seven days per week and a lot younger, so I could not maintain that. However I think I can maintain it around 126 lbs if I didn't eat everything my family ate. I am 5'6.5" tall. I measured my underbust because I was trying to fit myself to try out wearing a bra, and also to try to retrain my waistline with a corset. That measurement appeared to be around 32", but I still suspect that my rib cage shape is a bigger problem than its size. My waistline measurement seems to vary all over the place. It will be 30" one day, and 28" another day, and it's really hard to figure out what is a neutral breath so as not to sway the measurement too high or too low. Wearing a corset I can get my waist down to about 24", but I just don't find it comfortable enough to wear it the 24/7 it would take to actually reduce my waist semi-permanently. My hips measure about 35". But that's probably because I've become extremely sedentary and sit almost 24 hours a day. My male pattern baldness started when I was only sixteen, and I've been trying to use Rogaine since I was about 20, and it has not had much success. So I have my doubts about having enough hair to pass well. Of course I'm aware of my hands and feet as well, probably the most impossible things to change or to hide. My shoe size is about 10. Using an app to measure my vocal range, it seems my voice average is about 103 Hz. I don't know if this is particularly deep or not, but I also have an unintended nasal sound to it (think Pee-wee Herman or Steve Urkel, but hopefully not as extreme). So far I'm having a lot of trouble even getting the basics of how to control my voice. But I think the rest of it might give me less of a challenge because as far as my sheer body size goes, I'm really not that big. But maybe size is not what matters as much as shape. And for that I find myself unable to see myself objectively. I would love it if there was a brutally honest and objective judgement panel to which you could submit your photographs and measurements and allow someone to give you an accurate outlook on how well you may be able to pass in the future. For example, if someone could tell me right now 100% I would never ever pass as a woman, then I would have second thoughts about transitioning, or perhaps I have a transition my body only, but always present as male. But if someone could tell me that my frame and size have a very good potential outcome to pass as a woman, then I would have much less hesitation about the whole transition dilemma.
But in a very strange sort of way, I want my body to transition extremely well and to an extremely feminine shape. But then a moment later I hope it doesn't go SO far as to make it impossible for me to return home....
Quote from: Nevoxia on October 19, 2017, 05:14:59 PM
But in a very strange sort of way, I want my body to transition extremely well and to an extremely feminine shape. But then a moment later I hope it doesn't go SO far as to make it impossible for me to return home....
Well, I'm not sure what you mean. There are a couple things that are permanent after months of HRT. I am guessing that I now have nearly 4 pounds of fat and breast tissue on my chest that I did not have a year ago. It's never going away even if I quit HRT. No going back for me. Yes, there is surgery but will never do it. As always, be careful. I wanted to complete my female shape and have done it quite well on HRT.
I am lucky in that I never have to do anything that requires me to remove my shirt like swimming. I don't anticipate anything else, but the future......who can know it....
Quote from: Nevoxia on October 19, 2017, 05:14:59 PM
I guess this whole different lives compartmentalization question relies significantly on how well I can pass as a female after my transition, AND how well I can pass as a male as well.
Not necessarily. It is unlikely you will change so much as not to be recognized as you when you do guy mode by people that know you. Since you are pretty skinny now, people would probably just think you gained some weight, if you dress somewhat how you did before, and still can act like you did before. At least that's what I hope for me.
I don't really pass or expect to ever pass as a woman, but moved to an area that's pretty LGBT friendly, and no one really says anything, though I still get read as a guy, albeit a guy that is pretty obviously wearing makeup and feminine clothes. I've yet to go out in dresses or skirts though, for now, just going out presenting as androgynous in my new life is good enough for me, though I may experiment presenting more feminine once I am further along with electrolysis.
(Expanding on what VeronicaLynn said about compartmentalization)
Neither me nor Primary have ever had trouble with people recognizing I am a girl and he is a guy. But anyone who knows either of us would recognize the other of us. And we can NEVER risk that happening.
I am not sure you are realizing how far this goes, Nevoxia-
Maintaining separate ID's, credit cards and accounts
Establishing another credit history
Having different friends
Never being able to getting too close to anyone because of the risk of them finding out your secret
Never being spotted coming out of or going to the same house or driving the same car
Never going to the same stores and places
Never getting things mixed up when you are talking about each of your lives
Never mixing up your guy and girl mannerisms, voices or thoughts
It's alot harder for me because I don't have a real life history. I keep most things straight by using Primary's life and switching pronouns to fit me when I don't have memories of my own. But even though his mind learned to compartmentalize to the level it does because his life depended on it, I still get confused when I have to keep straight whether my "husband's" Ex's (Primary's wife's husband's) spouse is a husband or a wife.
We have done this for 8 years. Two whole years for me and 6 for Primary. It takes alot of work to keep up the illusion. Alot. Did you ever see Tootsie, Victor Victoria or Mrs. Doubtfire? We do it because it's how our brain coped with the abuse Primary experienced when he was a little boy. Because it has been this way for so long I don't think we can go to therapy long enough in this life to change. We don't do it because it is our choice.
Quote from: Shellie Hart on October 19, 2017, 05:37:28 PM
Well, I'm not sure what you mean. There are a couple things that are permanent after months of HRT. I am guessing that I now have nearly 4 pounds of fat and breast tissue on my chest that I did not have a year ago. It's never going away even if I quit HRT. No going back for me. Yes, there is surgery but will never do it. As always, be careful. I wanted to complete my female shape and have done it quite well on HRT.
I am lucky in that I never have to do anything that requires me to remove my shirt like swimming. I don't anticipate anything else, but the future......who can know it....
Oops, sorry I was not quite clear. What I meant about not being able to go home was, if I plan to present as male when I go home to visit my family, that might be a bit difficult if my transition is so successful that I go in with unmistakably obvious breasts or something like that. Of course I realize it would be quite lucky to have such development. But I agree with you, I could never consider any reduction or surgery or anything like that. But when returning home to visit family, maybe do what some transmen do, and practice binding and things like that.
Quote from: flytrap on October 19, 2017, 08:26:04 PM
(Expanding on what VeronicaLynn said about compartmentalization)
Neither me nor Primary have ever had trouble with people recognizing I am a girl and he is a guy. But anyone who knows either of us would recognize the other of us. And we can NEVER risk that happening.
I am not sure you are realizing how far this goes, Nevoxia-
Maintaining separate ID's, credit cards and accounts
Establishing another credit history
Having different friends
Never being able to getting too close to anyone because of the risk of them finding out your secret
Never being spotted coming out of or going to the same house or driving the same car
Never going to the same stores and places
Never getting things mixed up when you are talking about each of your lives
Never mixing up your guy and girl mannerisms, voices or thoughts
It's alot harder for me because I don't have a real life history. I keep most things straight by using Primary's life and switching pronouns to fit me when I don't have memories of my own. But even though his mind learned to compartmentalize to the level it does because his life depended on it, I still get confused when I have to keep straight whether my "husband's" Ex's (Primary's wife's husband's) spouse is a husband or a wife.
We have done this for 8 years. Two whole years for me and 6 for Primary. It takes alot of work to keep up the illusion. Alot. Did you ever see Tootsie, Victor Victoria or Mrs. Doubtfire? We do it because it's how our brain coped with the abuse Primary experienced when he was a little boy. Because it has been this way for so long I don't think we can go to therapy long enough in this life to change. We don't do it because it is our choice.
Among that list I have only ever seen Mrs. Doubtfire.
I couldn't really imagine it going that far! That does sound extremely difficult. I'm not that talented, or even that hard-working/efficient. Maybe the smart thing is just to move to a friendly city and forget about the whole thing. So what's the dream city, San Francisco? I was actually thinking that after grad school I might end up living in Texas because they have a strong industry in the type of career I'm studying for. But I have no knowledge of what are the best friendly cities for us.
I wouldn't want to take it that far either. The ID thing is sometimes problematic though. I choose not to care that people know that I'm trans here though, it's pretty obvious. I don't think it will even be all that much of a shock when I eventually do come out back home, most people there seem to think I'm a gay guy in denial.
I'm not sure what is the dream city, but I'm in Southern California, which may actually be more trans friendly than San Francisco these days.
I wasn't trying to be a downer, Nevoxia. It was important to help you see how much there is to keep separate. Moving to another city other place might be a better idea and just never tell anyone there about your life as a guy (thinking people here call that "stealth"?). It has to be alot easier hiding a secret like this when only one person has to do it.
Quote from: Nevoxia on October 19, 2017, 09:59:40 PM
Oops, sorry I was not quite clear. What I meant about not being able to go home was, if I plan to present as male when I go home to visit my family, that might be a bit difficult if my transition is so successful that I go in with unmistakably obvious breasts or something like that. Of course I realize it would be quite lucky to have such development. But I agree with you, I could never consider any reduction or surgery or anything like that. But when returning home to visit family, maybe do what some transmen do, and practice binding and things like that.
I know I am showing to everyone now. I can't hide them. I do see people looking and gawking all the time. It's just that so far no one has said anything or asked questions. It just hasn't happened yet. I know some are dying to ask. Why someone hasn't yet done so, I can't say.
My family and old friends are already used to my slim feminine shape, so that I am okay with. Now they see the breasts. I am just so anxious that it will happen sooner than I would like. It's past time for these things to stop growing. Dang the future....