Which behaviours/mannerisms specific to your birth sex are difficult to shed? In general or just difficult for you personally.
One of mine that's not only unmanly, but ridiculously girly: I gush over the cute stuff. Mostly animals, but also babies, and pretty inanimates, too "awwww, they just don't make dogs any cuter than that!" "awwww, how precious!" ::) I don't know that I really care to shed this, but it's definitely unseemly for a man.
*Note - let's please refrain from the 'behaviours and mannerisms aren't gendered' argument. Whether true or not, society has labeled certain behaviours and mannerisms masculine and feminine.*
I really have no desire to change my baritone singing voice. Suffice to say, that conflicts with being perceived as female.
y2g
Quote from: Nero on December 09, 2007, 11:46:43 AM
Which behaviours/mannerisms specific to your birth sex are difficult to shed? In general or just difficult for you personally.
One of mine that's not only unmanly, but ridiculously girly: I gush over the cute stuff. Mostly animals, but also babies, and pretty inanimates, too "awwww, they just don't make dogs any cuter than that!" "awwww, how precious!" ::) I don't know that I really care to shed this, but it's definitely unseemly for a man.
I wonder if it's the estrogen that does that? Otherwise, maybe you'd just be quietly amused by kittens and babies.
Just wondering.
I care about hair. My hair, the lady next door's hair, everyone's hair. I cut and dye my own on a (overly) regular basis, always make styling suggestions to other people and have a tendency to dye my own pink far too often to coincide with a male image. XD
Thankfully, when I tell other people that I'm gay, people respond with "Well, that explains it." lol
My mannerisms have always been correct for the way I am and I didn't need to change anything, but they were wrong for the persona I had before when people usually usumed I was gay..
The tendency to want to use a 2x4 instead of reason. It just gets to the point so much faster, but it seems so un-ladylike.
I guess the main thing would be my urge to "protect" or help women. You know, like carry packages, lift things, hold open doors, clean snow off cars, fix things, etc. I know women do that too, but there's a distinctly male-ish feeling of duty (in a good, noble way) to protect the "weaker sex" (don't hate me, you know what I mean).
And on the flip side, I still feel undeserving of receiving that privilege myself.
~Kate~
I've lost so much upper body strength
that I now wish someone would open the subway
doors. They are HARD to open because of
the difference in pressure between the metro
system and the outside. Its even worse during
the winter where the cold outside air has an
even lower air pressure.
Quote from: tekla on December 09, 2007, 02:09:46 PM
The tendency to want to use a 2x4 instead of reason. It just gets to the point so much faster, but it seems so un-ladylike.
LOL :laugh: <wiping off beverages from laptop>
y2g
Quote from: y2gender on December 09, 2007, 04:43:04 PM
Quote from: tekla on December 09, 2007, 02:09:46 PM
The tendency to want to use a 2x4 instead of reason. It just gets to the point so much faster, but it seems so un-ladylike.
LOL :laugh: <wiping off beverages from laptop>
LOL, well just make sure the 2x4 is appropriately accessorized (I'm thinking a nice fabric treatment of some sort), and keep your pinkey extended when swinging...
~Kate~
Quote from: Nero on December 09, 2007, 11:46:43 AM
One of mine that's not only unmanly, but ridiculously girly: I gush over the cute stuff. Mostly animals, but also babies, and pretty inanimates, too "awwww, they just don't make dogs any cuter than that!" "awwww, how precious!" ::) I don't know that I really care to shed this, but it's definitely unseemly for a man.
Many, many men do this. In fact, very few don't. At my work, I see like twenty different people and their pets every day. It's true that men and women gush over cuteness
differently, but they all do it. Women coo and baby-talk, men seldom do, men more often make complementary but humourous comments about the cuteness, men are more likely to talk
to the cute puppy about how cute it is than to talk to others about it. If there's a puppy in the waiting room, and a bunch of people, it is obvious that everyone present wants to go over and pet and cuddle it. Men are just shy about it, while women are more likely to actually do it.
Weirdly, very strongly masculine looking and acting men are more likely to go goo-goo over pets. The quiet-tough-guy husband of one of my co-workers falls in love with every dog he sees and adores them in a little-girly kinda way, (but without cooing) he's totally taken and would be chest-deep in dogs if he had his way. Scary-lookin' biker guys will actually burst into tears, scream, and run out of the room when they learn that their dog is dying. Your average-looking sensitive heath-food-store-shopping guy will just sniffle. I think it's just that biker-guys allow themselves to be publically passionate.
Anyway, your habit isn't a birth-sex habit, it's a human habit that most men are socialized out of, and cruelly so.
------
Mine is, well. When I deal with authority figures (like the cops or airport security inspectors) I suddenly find myself play-acting a nice, friendly, respectable, pretty woman, to the hilt. Brightly innocent and accomodating, and my gestures become feminine. It's probably wise of me, since when I act like myself my female-body means that the result is people finding something about me to be off-kilter and suspicious, but I always feel like I've betrayed myself after.
Biker guys can cry because like who is going to call them on it? Go ahead, walk up and ask them if they are a sissy. I suppose I could notify your next of kin for you.
Perhaps if I paint my 2x4 pink, perhaps some gemstones set in it? A little lace trim perhaps? And of course as anyone who has tried to do it knows, you can't use reason to get someone out of a belief they did not use reason to get themselves into.
And I think that the strong (regardless of gender) should protect the weak (regardless of gender). It might even be their duty on a moral and ethical level. Humans should hold doors open for other humans, when they have a full burden for sure. I hold door open for like FedEx guys, they don't seem shamed by it.
And since I can fix things I wind up doing it all the time, for girls and for guys. And I know plenty of guys who if you gave them a power tool you better get a MapQuest to the closest emergency room. And I know lots and lots of girls who can hand cut a plumline mark with a circular saw like the true goddess they are. Skill is not a gender deal at all. That nonsense belongs in the posting about myth. You would have thought that the WWII experience of Rosie the Riveter would have put a stop to that, but I see a lot of what has happened since then - both in the rejection of woman at work, as well as the rejection of science by the American Fundys as a reaction to that.
Given that I'm not sure there are all that many mannerisms that are related to birth gender. I think most of them are given by culture and nurture.
Quote from: Kate on December 09, 2007, 04:47:35 PM
LOL, well just make sure the 2x4 is appropriately accessorized (I'm thinking a nice fabric treatment of some sort), and keep your pinkey extended when swinging...
~Kate~
Of course, one could always give someone a good wallop with their purse. Especially one of those "old lady" purses that weighs a few tons. >:D
y2g
everything about me! i'm just so manly >:D
Quote from: y2gender on December 09, 2007, 06:30:32 PM
Quote from: Kate on December 09, 2007, 04:47:35 PM
LOL, well just make sure the 2x4 is appropriately accessorized (I'm thinking a nice fabric treatment of some sort), and keep your pinkey extended when swinging...
~Kate~
Of course, one could always give someone a good wallop with their purse. Especially one of those "old lady" purses that weighs a few tons. >:D
y2g
The older a woman gets, the heavier her purse. What's up with that? :laugh:
Quote from: Rebis on December 09, 2007, 09:24:20 PM
Quote from: y2gender on December 09, 2007, 06:30:32 PM
Quote from: Kate on December 09, 2007, 04:47:35 PM
LOL, well just make sure the 2x4 is appropriately accessorized (I'm thinking a nice fabric treatment of some sort), and keep your pinkey extended when swinging...
~Kate~
Of course, one could always give someone a good wallop with their purse. Especially one of those "old lady" purses that weighs a few tons. >:D
y2g
The older a woman gets, the heavier her purse. What's up with that? :laugh:
all those thing she's accumulated over the years.
It hasn't seemed hard, but then I spoz someone other than me would be the best judge of that.
What's been much more difficult is either losing loose muscle and fat in my tummy or getting my breasts to starting growing rapidly again.
O, other women have that same problem as they age as well?
Nevermind.
I believe that my speech causes me problems. Maybe it doesn't but I feel conscious of it.
I was born and reared in the hard coal country of northeastern Pennsylvania. The local accent is hurtful to the ears and hard to neutralize.
I also lived in the male gender for 51 years and during that time I have gathered words and expressions that seem to be masculine or from the military. I served in the Coast Guard.
If I watch my pronunciation, inflection, and syncopation I feel comfortable. After a time it becomes automatic, however, for me it can easily revert to "mantalk." I also watch my hand gestures and facial expressions.
I never walked like a woman before and I enjoy feeling my hips and bum tell me that they're there but I must check now and then and watch how my feet take a step.
That's about it for me.
Wing Walker
No, I do *NOT* sashay when I walk! LOL@ myself!!!
I'm not exactly sure, actually. No one has pointed out anything and I haven't noticed anything. I won't say I'm perfect or anything -- I'm probably far from it. But I guess it's a good sign if it's not something that's totally obvious.
I tend to go all moist eyed or cry when I see or hear something really beautiful. I've got a recording from an organ built out of stalic-pipes, built into a rock, that makes me cry. Or seeing kids and parents playing, parents explaining autumn to three year olds, dogs running happy - lots of little everyday stuff. Not very manly, but not something to shed.
Mannerisms and behaviors: None
I wish it could have been easier to achieve a female voice without spending so much money in speech therapy but oh well. At least I was able to..
tink :icon_chick:
Quote from: Ashley Michelle on December 11, 2007, 06:32:26 PM
i crack my knuckles.
oh, and i threaten to stab obnoxious drunken people in the eye with my salad fork.
but i only did that once.
I crack my knuckles too and its a tough habit to break. Started when I was 12 yrs old, and everyone hates it when I do it especially when the room is quiet! ;D
Out of curriosity,
This may seem like a stupid question,
But why would anyone want to shed somthing that is part of you?
I mean I understand perfectly if it is a tendancy or habit that is unhelpful,
But just because it is masculine or feminine?
We all have both spectrums in us.
Regardless of whether we are born Trans. or not.
Non transgendered women by birth have a masculine side just like all men have some feminine side.
no one is 100% one way or the other. No one I've met anyway.
Why would I want to get rid of part of myself that is not hurting anything?
I tend to have more femininity than masculinity, and Have a very real female gender, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy skiing off cliffs!
Or bombing hill on a longboard! I like them just as much as I do dancing, singing, cooking and yoga, and girls gymnastics. Just for different reasons. I'm sure other people are different, but perhaps someone would be willing to explain why they would want to "get rid" of part of their natural personality?
Seems weird to me.
But then again, a lot of the things people do seem weird to me.
LOL
-Sarah
Sarah, its not part of you
if you collected these mannerism
just to adapt to the male
environment around you.
After awhile it becomes an
automatism, but is that
part of you? Is everything
you learned and integrated a part
of you?
If you walk in a very male way,
and there is such a thing, go
on biomechanics sites.
Humans adapt to their
environment and
depending on the environment
you want to fit in, it
may be better to shed
male manerism that helped you
fit the other environment
but don't help in the new setting.
Kiera,
listen,
you and I don't agree on a lot of things.
I was born trans.
I don't know about you.
I'm not talking about learned behavious.
Little, little, kids start displaying unlearned behaviours usually around the age of 5-6.
I don't act anyting like my parrents, and they know it. they have said so.
Kids are thier own people.
I am refering to behavious that "society" deems as masculine or feminine.
If all behaviour was learned, I wouldn't be Trans.
I certainly didn't learn that from anybody.
Peace
-Sarah.
P.S.
I respect your right to disagree with me, but I am not interested in getting into another arguement.
I'll spell this out really plainly.
Your steadfast belief in Psychology, your interpretations/beliefs of science, medicine, and the world; I tend to disagree with.
Not because I think they are bad, but because I have examined those beliefs on my own time, and disagree with their/ your conclusions based on my own experience and the experience of others I trust.
I'm not trying to be rude, but you come across to me as someone like a Christian fundie, or an Athiest Fundie, so convinced of their own rightiousness that they consider views/opinions to the contrary or that challenge their own as "ludicrous, blasphemous, or ridicules. That others views are not worth looking at at any depth. That People who believe otherwise are idiots.
That I disagree, does not mean that I am ignorant of the things you talk about or that I do not have all the information.
However, as I have said, based on my own experience, the experience of those I trust, and certain things thatI have found to be proven true as Laws of the Universe, I have to disagree with many of the conclusions that these sorts of views hold.
I have very little interest in talking to someone who is unwilling to let their views be challenged without becoming defensive or able to keep an open mind.
Perhaps I am mistaken but you do come across that way to me.
Respectfully yours,
-Sarah
You should know Sarah,.
There's only one other in 12 months I've disagreed as much as I did with you
in a week, and it took 9 months before it got to that point.
That's saying something... I'm never responding to you again because
there's no point to it, ever. So there, that's my last communication with you.
Edit:
By the way Kiera,
It's not that I don't like you,
I just think it's probably better that we focus on areas where we might have things in common like Fashion, Music tastes, Makup, etc.
Things we can agree on possibly.
You know?
It's no fun to focus on differences all the time.
Differences are there, but so is commonality.
Peace.
-Sarah