So I was going through my facebook photos... And I had the thought, why on earth did it take me so long to admit to myself that I'm non-binary/trans... when I was OPENLY experimenting with my gender expression, and my friends loved how bold I was to do so. The funny thing is... these kind of photos have always been my favorite photos of me... This particular time, I stole my friend Ryan's tie and fedora, and wore them...most of the night. (While actually hating wearing a dress, but it was a church function... like they'd let girls wear dress pants and shirt).
(https://scontent-sjc2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/1930701_79954910787_3349_n.jpg?oh=bf69ab3da94a1b47982f658831d56b44&oe=5A63B82F)
Have any of you guys had those moments where you're like, how the heck did it take me so long to realize/admit it when it was so clear? What were they? Or am I just a weirdo.... (Actually don't answer that one, I know I'm a weirdo lol)
It took me 55 years to admit to myself that I am transgender you take as long as you need I wish I had come out sooner but it wasn't my time yet now it is and i am not wasting any of it on wishful thinking
bobbisue :)
Ha ha, maybe the question is, did anyone not take a long time to figure it out. I came to terms and started transition at 57 or 58. Bobbisue is right though, we take the time we need. I can never know, looking back, if I could have done it sooner. There might have been some failed attempts if I had done it younger. To me the saddest thing is if you know you need to take 'X' action to be yourself and you are terrified by the world so you become frozen in dysphoria. Been there and my heart goes out to those there now.
Moni
It's funny you bring this up! I say that everyday now, but some of it I realize why. I am 37 and finally admitted to myself and the world I am a trans woman and have been for a while. Why does it take so long for us to come out it is complicated for all of us. For me it was my upbringing as a Mormon. You were born two ways male or female and NOTHING in between in the church. You are attracted to only the opposite gender. It is a very confining and non-inclusive church. So I grew up with this mentality. Anyone different I thought was weird and just an outcast to society. This made me stuck as I was born. I finally fell away from the church and started doing my own thing. I opened my horizons to new things and a new me!!!! I wish that churches were not so tight on their beliefs and not open to giving people more liberties. I understand equality much more. This is why it took me so long to recognize for myself the real me!
I think it was a balancing act for me. I was fortunate in my life, even though I didn't come from a family that has money, I realized the privileges I had and didn't want to lose them. When I started working in my mid 20s and I was finished with school (for now) I realized that the world out there isn't as protective of my identity and gender expression. Of course it's become more acceptable to cross dress and so I did that. I felt that I couldn't pass at first, but then I met transgender/non-binary people and I saw that it doesn't matter. I've always known I was non-binary put into the "male" box. It's time for me to express my femininity that I've felt ashamed to present and explore. I've never been in a real, long lasting relationship because of this fear of who I really am. How could such a huge and life changing mistake happen to me?
now that you bring it up, i'm having that thought right now lol
but i know the answer: i didn't realize or admit it because of how i was raised. i was taught not to question things like that, to take for granted that you are what they say you are and there is no changing it. i didn't even know transition was possible until late in high school, and no one painted a very flattering picture of it then, either.
but looking back now, not only do i realize that the signs were all there, but it's really obvious to me just how much i was in denial about myself because i couldn't accept that i might be "different" in a way i wasn't equipped to handle. even so i hated wearing makeup and girly clothes and didn't start wearing them until i was forced (around middle school), and would always try to sneak in masculine touches like a men's sport watch or a tie, even had a friend of mine call me "sir" for a while... no one, including me, ever took any of that seriously or considered that there might be more to it.
Absolutely.
Sometimes being insular and self-directed is a double edged sword, as in my case. I didn't pay much attention to what others thought of me (great in some ways) but at the same time, I had decided during adolescence that I was just "feeling sorry for myself" and went on a kick to ignore it and push on with life. It was that same attitude that while it probably saved me from doing serious damage to myself, also blinded me to the facts.
I started seriously thinking about transitioning around 25 years ago, but there was almost no information out there about that kind of thing then, especially for FTMs. I had this fuzzy idea that you had to go out to California to find a surgeon, and knew nothing more than that. If there had been YouTube videos and internet forums back then, it might have been a different story.
The other thing I had to get past was the idea that passing is everything. I thought that because I wasn't born in a very masculine body, transition wasn't an option for me. Now I realize that fretting about passing is just a variation on the "but what will people think of me?" worry, and that you can't make major life decisions based on other people's opinions and prejudices.
I'm sad to say I know the reason it took me so long... I didn't think I could ever be feminine enough and that I would simply be doomed to be "the guy in a dress". I hadn't the slightest clue that hormones had the effects they do, and was convinced that every part of my body was freakishly over masculine and for any hope to be anything but a caricature of a woman I'd have to have a lifetime of surgeries I could never afford.
Particularly because in my head I pictured myself as a tiny little thing. (Lots of short female relatives and malnourished beach girls around me at all times, skewed my view of women's body types.)
So down into the hole it was stuffed, to live my life out in fantasy and video games.
Quote from: The Flying Lemur on October 28, 2017, 12:57:57 PM
The other thing I had to get past was the idea that passing is everything. I thought that because I wasn't born in a very masculine body, transition wasn't an option for me. Now I realize that fretting about passing is just a variation on the "but what will people think of me?" worry, and that you can't make major life decisions based on other people's opinions and prejudices.
In other words, this ^^^.
Though now I think, I hope, one day I may actually pass. I know it shouldn't matter so much to me, and I honestly have no desire to live stealth or pass for the sake of others, but I just want to look closer to how I always pictured myself in my head.
Your question contains a big part of the answer for me, I'm a person who is also non binary and transgender. I utilized an androgynous long haired presentation most of my adult life and found the hardest person to come out to was me. I learned about and met other transgender people in the 80s but the binary narrative was all i understood to be valid. It was too easy to say i was not one because i didn't fit the classical mold. Then i met a person giving a presentation about transgender 101 who identified as non binary trans. That was 2012 and I was a bit over 60 yo. That was the event the got me out and transitioning, full speed damn the torpedoes.
There was a sort of tyranny in our history as transgender/transsexual people, especially in regard to who was once admitted for treatment with HRT and SRS/GCS back in the day. One needed to have a very polar and binary identity and very likely to eventually blend in.
Now, more and more people recognize very personal narratives, perspectives, presentations and the really huge diverse world of gender identity. Wonderful to now have options and these social media platforms that connect us and allow for shared experiences to be known and better understood. As a kid and until the 80s I thought i was the only person in the world who felt this way. I was alone to the point of feeling I must be a literal alien. Rough planet to visit some days but the water's nice ;D
HOLY explosion of comments! I was not expecting such a rapid response time hahaha.
Quote from: Jailyn on October 28, 2017, 11:03:23 AM
It's funny you bring this up! I say that everyday now, but some of it I realize why. I am 37 and finally admitted to myself and the world I am a trans woman and have been for a while. Why does it take so long for us to come out it is complicated for all of us. For me it was my upbringing as a Mormon. You were born two ways male or female and NOTHING in between in the church. You are attracted to only the opposite gender. It is a very confining and non-inclusive church. So I grew up with this mentality. Anyone different I thought was weird and just an outcast to society. This made me stuck as I was born. I finally fell away from the church and started doing my own thing. I opened my horizons to new things and a new me!!!! I wish that churches were not so tight on their beliefs and not open to giving people more liberties. I understand equality much more. This is why it took me so long to recognize for myself the real me!
I'm going to admit I laughed at this... BUT I have to explain why. I grew up Mormon too... so you are completely expressing EXACTLY what I spent 20 years going through... And also... I figure you'll understand when I said, that picture was taken at an Institute dance. (Suppose it could have been worse...It was Institute at Salt Lake Community College, so a little more lax than say... a stake dance? By the way, I don't know if you were one of the youth who attended stake dances, I was... [THOUGH at first they were Multi-Stake dances, because otherwise we'd have had no youth attending. Joys of teen years in DC] but if you were, do you ever look back and think about the songs they played and laugh given Mormon values? Like my favorite is, I grew up in the era where they played Spice Girls, and of course the favored was 'Wannabe.')
In some ways, I was lucky though... In DC, my hatred for all things feminine (or most things anyway) was attributed to having spent the first 7.5 years of my life in Idaho. 'Country Girl'. Come out here, and people were like, 'Well its cause she grew up in DC. I miss DC though... even in the Church, fewer people tried to change me, because that was just the culture around us. People are different. Accept it, or you will not survive here. (Not to say that racism and bigotry, and religious uproar didn't exist... cause believe me... being a mix of just about everything, I felt that... too strong.) But come out here to Utah where even the government is predominantly Mormon so laws are also reflecting of church values, and I had to hide even more than I already did.
Like you, I kind of fell away though... I still believe a lot of the teachings I grew up with... But really, how can I exist in a world that sees everything so binary? So rigid. So black and white? Even if I were to say, 'Hey I'm a girl who prefers male gender expression,' there is a good part of the world around me who would just back away. I look at the Family: A Proclamation to the World now with new eyes. Before, the whole 'marriage between man and woman' and 'gender is an essential characteristic to God's plan' messages it clearly states, didn't bother me as much. I just accepted it as just teachings of the Church that didn't affect me... But now, all I can see is the very end where they proclaim to all governments to enact laws and acts and whatnot to enforce these ideas... And I just want to ... UGH. How did I not see that in reality, it was destroying me, because I am NOT a binary gender? I'm not the gender I was assigned? EVEN MEDICALLY I'm not. ANYWAY this rant is getting a little off topic hahaha.... So done there.
Quote from: HappyMoni on October 28, 2017, 07:44:47 AM
Ha ha, maybe the question is, did anyone not take a long time to figure it out. I came to terms and started transition at 57 or 58. Bobbisue is right though, we take the time we need. I can never know, looking back, if I could have done it sooner. There might have been some failed attempts if I had done it younger. To me the saddest thing is if you know you need to take 'X' action to be yourself and you are terrified by the world so you become frozen in dysphoria. Been there and my heart goes out to those there now.
Moni
Hahaha you're right, that probably is a better question, especially for those not born in the 2000s where information has always been readily available. I feel like the age of information technology has made all the difference in acceptance and realization. People complain about so people are coming out as trans now. I personally believe there is no more or no less people who are trans/non-binary/other gender identifier or sexuality identifier. It is just that there is more connectivity and more information, so it becomes known more. More people have access to others like them all around the world, and more access to information to help them realize that these feelings, inclinations, emotions, no... identities, aren't unique to just them.
I agree with you and bobbiesue though... I think in a lot of ways, I did need the twenty years it took me to realize... as a child, there was no way I could have known about the medical condition where even to be female, its a sort of transition. I needed the freedom I had in DC to explore my gender expression. And then, out here, I think I just needed to let people see that expression. And then I had to go through the years of crippling dysphoria from my PCOS to realize it was deeper, and to let my husband understand that this is who I am. Besides, I've had to overcome a lot of other things in my life already... plus, I have severe anxiety so dealing with things one at a time is good. ;)
To some degree, I am stuck in that sad place... where I feel like there are some things I need to do to transition but can't which leaves me with the dysphoria, but I'm getting there.
Quote from: meatwagon on October 28, 2017, 11:20:49 AM
now that you bring it up, i'm having that thought right now lol
but i know the answer: i didn't realize or admit it because of how i was raised. i was taught not to question things like that, to take for granted that you are what they say you are and there is no changing it. i didn't even know transition was possible until late in high school, and no one painted a very flattering picture of it then, either.
but looking back now, not only do i realize that the signs were all there, but it's really obvious to me just how much i was in denial about myself because i couldn't accept that i might be "different" in a way i wasn't equipped to handle.
I feel like this is true for soooo many of us. Its a struggle in the world we grew up in.
Quote from: The Flying Lemur on October 28, 2017, 12:57:57 PM
I started seriously thinking about transitioning around 25 years ago, but there was almost no information out there about that kind of thing then, especially for FTMs. I had this fuzzy idea that you had to go out to California to find a surgeon, and knew nothing more than that. If there had been YouTube videos and internet forums back then, it might have been a different story.
The other thing I had to get past was the idea that passing is everything. I thought that because I wasn't born in a very masculine body, transition wasn't an option for me. Now I realize that fretting about passing is just a variation on the "but what will people think of me?" worry, and that you can't make major life decisions based on other people's opinions and prejudices.
I know this too well.. I didn't even know where you went to go to a surgeon. And I thought trans meant you HAD to have surgery. I didn't even know about hormones. It was actually with the idea that Trans = surgery that I actually started out with when I was researching my own hormonal condition, and I learned there is sooooo much more to it.
Ugh... passing... I'm still working on that stigma. Although for me, it also involves 'what does passing mean to me?' because I feel like it is different being non-binary than being a more binary FTM. Do I want to actually look like a man? I'm starting to think though, for me, 'passing' is just having someone stop, look at me, and wonder whether I'm male or female. Because then, there is recognition to some degree that I have both, or neither or whatever.
Okay... and now, it seems that there is a consensus that there is a lot to the question I posed. And we all seem to agree on two main points
1. Information/connectivity wasn't as available to us as it is now.
2. Our culture/environment/religion/etc wasn't conducive (sp?) to us realizing it.
I just have to say, for me, I love coming here, and being one of the people realizing it when they/he/she is older, and having SOOOOOO many people who can relate. Because, honestly, I feel like that's a major struggle, and knowing I'm not alone in it helps. And that people didn't realize until they were even older than I am? Its encouraging. I guess we are pretty strong folk. Right?
As a side note, I had another moment of clarity today... And I thought I should share it with you, because I have to admit, my husband's trying... And it was just one of the cutest dang things he's said about me since I came out to him.
So I was talking to my mother-in-law on the phone this morning to see if she could watch my son while we went shopping today and while I took a couple hours to clean house. The end of the call, I had a moment of clarity where I was like 'Wow.. my voice really is low!' (Please note, I've always known my voice is low, and frequently I've hated it. But I get these moments when I'm talking where I notice certain things more prominantly... usually its my accent though cause its actally kind of weird.) So my husband goes, [He's driving by the way] 'Yeah it is for a girl.' Then he pauses and says to me, 'Err... for someone born with a vagina?' He's trying! I laughed because it was just really cute to me, and I was proud of him. Just had to share that... and figured a thread where I have shown the 'signs' for a while was a good a place as any.
Rowena_Ellenweorc Yes dear i went to youth dances for sure!!!!! We had multi-stake ones in Mississippi as well because with just our stake it would have been laughable dance. Yes, we played all the cheesy songs one I loved was a Boyz 2 Men song. I am glad that someone on here can relate to that whole upbringing. I love the moral values and yes the family proclamation is great. I just apply my own spin on it now. I know of other ex-mormons that have come to the a path of becoming themselves. I can speculate that things might change in the church but, I doubt it. So thanks for the reply and I hope we can communicate some more, it is good to have commonalities with people.