Exactly how many types are there for vaginoplasty?
All I've heard about is Penile Inversion, Sigmoid Colon & Peritoneal. I know about about Penile inversion but not very much about the other procedure. Can anyone please explain?
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Try Google. ☺
Penile inversion is the most common and it works for most of us. If we do not have enough skin for penile inversion, the skin must be obtained elsewhere. The most common source was from the colon, where a small section of the sigmoid colon was removed and placed where the vagina would be. Skin can also be grafted from the scrotum or inner thigh and shaped into a vaginal canal and sewn into place. The most recent innovation is to use the peritoneal membrane from around the abdomen and fashion a vagina and sew that into place. Colon and peritoneal grafts have the advantage of being mucous membranes and the resultant vagina is self lubricating, more or less. A vagina created for any other skin will require lots of lube for intercourse.
Thank you very much Dani! I appreciate that very much.
I'm very confused I wanna know what's the best before going further. I've heard that laparoscopic peritoneal pull-through vaginoplasty offers a relatively easy surgical procedure with excellent results on long term follow up. resembling a normal, secretory & realistic vagina.
And the disadvantages of other procedures like penile inversion/ sigmoid colon includes stenosis, poor lubrication, terrible smell , scarring!
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Quote from: Bonita_Love on October 30, 2017, 10:20:10 PM
Thank you very much Dani! I appreciate that very much.
I'm very confused I wanna know what's the best before going further. I've heard that laparoscopic peritoneal pull-through vaginoplasty offers a relatively easy surgical procedure with excellent results on long term follow up. resembling a normal, secretory & realistic vagina.
The studies you read were referring to cis women with vaginal agenesis.. Trans women require a different procedure.
QuoteAnd the disadvantages of other procedures like penile inversion/ sigmoid colon includes stenosis, poor lubrication, terrible smell , scarring!
You need to separate the penile inversion and colo-vaginoplasty here.. Both have quite different issues - and you also seem to be working from old info..
Quote from: Bonita_Love on October 30, 2017, 10:20:10 PM
Thank you very much Dani! I appreciate that very much.
I'm very confused I wanna know what's the best before going further. I've heard that laparoscopic peritoneal pull-through vaginoplasty offers a relatively easy surgical procedure with excellent results on long term follow up. resembling a normal, secretory & realistic vagina.
And the disadvantages of other procedures like penile inversion/ sigmoid colon includes stenosis, poor lubrication, terrible smell , scarring!
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Does anywhere offer this for trans women? Or is it a technique solely for cis-females?
Quote from: kelly_aus on October 31, 2017, 05:37:26 AM
The studies you read were referring to cis women with vaginal agenesis.. Trans women require a different procedure.
You need to separate the penile inversion and colo-vaginoplasty here.. Both have quite different issues - and you also seem to be working from old info..
Thank you very much kelly! <3
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Quote from: Mandy M on October 31, 2017, 06:01:02 AM
Does anywhere offer this for trans women? Or is it a technique solely for cis-females?
https://www.google.co.in/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/09/13/transgender-woman-gets-revolutionary-new-vaginal-surgery-she-helped-to-create/amp/
Read this
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Quote from: Bonita_Love on October 31, 2017, 09:16:12 AM
https://www.google.co.in/amp/www.pinknews.co.uk/2017/09/13/transgender-woman-gets-revolutionary-new-vaginal-surgery-she-helped-to-create/amp/
Read this
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Wow!
I wish there was a lot more on this and, of course, pictures. It sounds like a pretty invasive technique. I wonder how long it took.
So many questions!
x
Quote from: Complete on October 30, 2017, 06:04:55 PM
Try Google. ☺
That's less than helpful, and not at all in line with the spirit of this site. We help each other.
I have been following this thread with interest. I have been looking to see if anybody is utilizing the 3D printing process to create a new vagina from a person's existing cells. Haven't found that yet but there is much progress with the peritoneal method. A quick Google this morning provided several references including a paper that described the entire process. I will post links later. While this was for cis woman who have a particular medical condition that caused them to be born without a vagina it could be applicable to trans women. The advantages would primarily be that the peritoneal cells change to vaginal mucosa in 6-8 months. This means that you are not only self lubricating but it responds to arrousal. The Cowper's gland remains intact and adds lubrication in a trans woman.
The early attempts with this procedure involved significant abdominal surgery and left significant scaring. What this current attempt does is use laparoscopic techniques and draws the peritoneum through the neovaginal opening. It also reportedly leads to a fairly quick recovery.
In further reading there is a doctor in New York that is doing this and Dr. Bowers has participated and is working on this procedure.
Understand that what I am reporting is just a very quick Google search and just enough time to read two articles. There is clearly much more reading to be done.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on October 31, 2017, 02:22:38 PM
That's less than helpful, and not at all in line with the spirit of this site. We help each other.
Really?!? It seems that most of the useful information posted thus far has been from Google. Again, just trying to be helpful. Must l apologize for not being helpful enough?
When my sister says her battery is dead, I give her a jump start with booster cables. That's being helpful. If my sister told me her battery was dead and I said "Call a mechanic" I would be less than helpful. Understand?
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on November 01, 2017, 08:07:49 PM
When my sister says her battery is dead, I give her a jump start with booster cables. That's being helpful. If my sister told me her battery was dead and I said "Call a mechanic" I would be less than helpful. Understand?
Hugs, Devlyn
I understand that you are more mechanically inclined than l. I don't own jumper cables. I call the auto club. In this case, a question about srs procedures, the expertise lies at hand in a Google search. Can you speak knowledgeably and/or from experience about the various options available? I cannot and so the best l can offer is the best resource of information that l know of: Google.
So please, try to understand and be accepting of those who are not as accomplished as you are.
Quote from: Bonita_Love on October 30, 2017, 08:03:28 AM
Exactly how many types are there for vaginoplasty?
All I've heard about is Penile Inversion, Sigmoid Colon & Peritoneal. I know about about Penile inversion but not very much about the other procedure. Can anyone please explain?
If you're trying to work out which one to have these may not be the best questions. For that other relevant questions: are you using insurance of paying yourself (and how much money you have), do you care what it looks like, the experience of the surgeon, do you mind travel?
I promised to give an update. Here we go.
The Russians first started using peritoneum to form a neo vagina in patients with Mayer-Rokistansky-Kustner-Houser syndrome. In this syndrome a cis woman does not fully develop her sexual organs and has several other anomalies involving kidneys and bladder. Notably, women with this syndrome do not develop a vagina. In 1969 an article showed up in Russian literature using the peritoneum to form the vagina but they utilized a laparotomy technique (fully open abdomen) that left significant scaring. They did note that the women were able to engage in sex and self lubricated.
In 1983 the first laproscopic procedure was used which resulted in significantly reduce surgical time and fewer complications as well as a quicker recovery.
Several modifications of technique were developed in the early part of the 2000's.
In 2014 an Indian team modified the technique further with what they are calling the pull through technique. In this there are three small abdominal incisions that leave little scaring. The vaginal cavity is opened up and the peritoneum is pulled through and sutured in place. This reduces the possibility of prolapse. Dilation is twice a day for the first three months and then not needed. Of interest is that the peritoneal cells modify over a period of 6-8 months and become vaginal epithelial cells that are not differentiated in any way from a normal vagina. There is high sexual satisfaction and normal lubrication.
I would note that all that i have cited so far is for cis women that have no vagina. Dr Bowers and Dr Ting are working with this technique for trans women. Without doing significant research on this tonight I would note that since trans women do not have natural vulva, labia, clitoris it is still necessary to restructure existing male anatomy.
I still find this a very interesting development.
the articles that I used in particular are as follows:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4229793/ This was a good article with lots of good detailhttps://wjso.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1477-7819-12-302
Quote from: AnonyMs on November 01, 2017, 09:40:37 PM
If you're trying to work out which one to have these may not be the best questions. For that other relevant questions: are you using insurance of paying yourself (and how much money you have), do you care what it looks like, the experience of the surgeon, do you mind travel?
These are all excellent considerations. Others might be what your ultimate expectations are. Many are happy with less invasive procedures requiring less maintenance, cost and/or after care.
If the laparoscopic use of peritoneal tissue had been available to me, l would have been all over it in a New York minute.
Briah, sometime direct links get moderated so I'll just copy the titles here while I still have them.
New laparoscopic peritoneal pull-through vaginoplasty technique
doi: 10.4103/0974-1208.142478
Comparison of laparoscopic peritoneal vaginoplasty and sigmoid colon vaginoplasty performed during radical surgery for primary vaginal carcinoma
doi: 10.1186/1477-7819-12-302
Quote from: Complete on November 01, 2017, 08:21:18 PM
I understand that you are more mechanically inclined than l. I don't own jumper cables. I call the auto club. In this case, a question about srs procedures, the expertise lies at hand in a Google search. Can you speak knowledgeably and/or from experience about the various options available? I cannot and so the best l can offer is the best resource of information that l know of: Google.
So please, try to understand and be accepting of those who are not as accomplished as you are.
Look, even before the Mods tried to show you a point I read your post and thought, 'ouch, that's really unhelpful and rather brusque.'
I'm sure everyone is perfectly well aware of how to use google. People come on this site for advice. If you don't have any, then saying 'use google' can come across as rather dismissive.
I'm still fascinated by this new technique. I actually dreamt about having it last night ;D
xx
Quote from: Mandy M on November 02, 2017, 03:40:45 AM
Look, even before the Mods tried to show you a point I read your post and thought, 'ouch, that's really unhelpful and rather brusque.'
I'm sure everyone is perfectly well aware of how to use google. People come on this site for advice. If you don't have any, then saying 'use google' can come across as rather dismissive.
I second that.
;) x
Can someone help me? I hear a lot about penile inversion and even Suporn's technique being 'sealed' and 'non-lubricating.'
However, the prostate gland produces (in my case) a huge amount of ejaculate. Nothing to do with testicles and sperm: it's the gland which secretes a large amount of fluid.
Although most of that fluid appears on orgasm, why is this not part of the lubricating system? Or is it?
And, what exactly is the plumbing for that ejaculate?
Can someone explain those questions in words, rather than resorting to links if at all possible? That's not trying to be awkward, I just would love someone to explain to me here where the fluid from the prostate goes in a vaginoplasty surgery? Do all surgeons plumb it the same way?
Thanks!
xx
Quote from: Mandy M on November 02, 2017, 10:54:35 AM
Can someone explain those questions in words, rather than resorting to links if at all possible? That's not trying to be awkward, I just would love someone to explain to me here where the fluid from the prostate goes in a vaginoplasty surgery? Do all surgeons plumb it the same way?
Thanks!
xx
As it is pre-op, the prostate is connected to the urethra..
kelly_aus explain part of the reason not being connect to the new vagina, also the amount of fluid decreases when your T level decreases.
Ok....just trying to get on board. We are looking to understand how, or if what little ejaculation might exist after year, maybe decades of testosterone suppression, gets into the newly constructed vaginal canal (?).
No clue. Does it? Can it? ....?????
Quote from: mm on November 02, 2017, 05:21:40 PM
kelly_aus explain part of the reason not being connect to the new vagina, also the amount of fluid decreases when your T level decreases.
I can only think that it's related to the "delicacy" of the prostate and the issues that go along with prostate surgeries.. It would also add the the complexity of SRS, which is already complex enough.
But, honestly, I don't know, you'd have to ask a surgeon.
Complete, any fluid coming out of the urethra can easily be pushed into the vagina as many cis girls know
no SRS surgeon want to even touch the prostate as problems with controlling peeing are so common when the prostate is involved in surgery.
I've found the theory of it doesn't help me with understanding what people end up with. There's no way to know if any of its correct, and I know that some of what I commonly hear is wrong. And as far as I can work it out there seems to be little correlation between the theory and what people actually end up with.
I prefer to look at photo's so I can judge the aesthetic results myself and to look for stories of people who've had problems. Even better if you know anyone who can show you in person, and I've seen a few now.
On the subject of lubrication I'd look for stories from people who say they have it or don't rather than trying to understand why.
So l will offer my personal experience in the hope that it might help. I first started having regular sex with men about a year post -op. It was readily available to me and much more pleasant that dilating. Because I was having a lot of sex and often, (at least once a day, usually more ) there seemed to always be sufficient moisture to get things started and then even more as things warmed up.
After my divorce there was a period of about a year where I was not having much sex and neither was l dilating. My second husband was quite large, both in length and girth and so sex was uncomfortable for both of us.
At that time, mid 80's l found a surgeon doing colonovaginoplasty. For me this was the greatest discovery since sliced bread. I was able to handle my well endowed husband with no problems and have never worried about lube or dilating since.
I am told a newer even better iteration is now coming on line and would recommend that to anyone interested if normal heterosexual sex with a man.
Just my opinion, of course. YMMV
Quote from: mm on November 02, 2017, 05:21:40 PM
kelly_aus explain part of the reason not being connect to the new vagina, also the amount of fluid decreases when your T level decreases.
Mine hasn't :) I produce a huge amount: mostly on ejaculation, but some pre.
I have zero testosterone.
xx
Anyhow, if I understand this correctly, the prostate ejaculate will continue to go along the urethrea which in trans females doesn't come through the vagina, but above it? Sorry for my ignorance but that's right isn't it? In cis females the pee hole is in the vagina but in trans it isn't?
It's a pity the prostate ejaculate can't be routed into the vagina because it's such an obvious source of lubcrication as well as pleasure.
Sorry if this is all a bit ignorant. I know a lot about hormones and trans psychology but very little about the mechanics of vaginoplasty.
xx
Quote from: Mandy M on November 03, 2017, 04:07:19 AM
Anyhow, if I understand this correctly, the prostate ejaculate will continue to go along the urethrea which in trans females doesn't come through the vagina, but above it? Sorry for my ignorance but that's right isn't it? In cis females the pee hole is in the vagina but in trans it isn't?
Umm, a woman's pee hole isn't in her vagina. Maybe a simple anatomy diagram would help?
For a basic idea how penile inversion is performed, check out this animated video of one surgeon's technique. You'll notice at about the 3:40 mark, the unused length of the urethra (pee tube) is opened up and attached to the pre-inverted penile skin. This provides mucosal tissue and does aid some in lubrication.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXx549vixYc&list=FLvvlQFST07f3qo5i9mWCDVw&index=1 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXx549vixYc&list=FLvvlQFST07f3qo5i9mWCDVw&index=1)
Even if you did have ejaculate from the prostate on orgasm, if you're talking about intercourse, you're going to need lubrication well before getting to that point. I have a 40 year old model. I've always had to use lubrication for sex but it isn't that big of a deal. I do have a degree of natural moisture but not enough for penetration or dilation.
Hiya, yes sorry I should have been a bit less ignorant and a bit more precise. Apologies.
What I mean, is that a cis-woman's pee hole is below her clitoris, right? So although it's not in her vagina, as you rightly say, it's surely close enough in a trans vaginoplasty for prostate ejaculate to spread into the vagina? It sits between the clitoris and the vagina, no? So on stimulation prostate fluid must surely spread into the vagina and lubricate it?
I do have stacks of prostate ejaculate which is nothing to do with sperm (I don't have testicles).
Mind you, I take your point about ejaculate vs pre-cum. I don't have a huge amount of the latter.
xx