Something about it never felt quite right, and the more I hear it the less I like it. People have kind intentions and want to say something positive and supportive, ok that's great, thanks. There is an unintentionally negative implicit side to it that is disturbing. In a sense, they are just handing you their own fears instead of welcoming you with real acceptance. This is not to fault people for trying to say the right thing, they are sincerely trying to give something positive, but it just doesn't feel right when I hear it. I don't let it bother me, but it seems to imply that there is something inherently wrong.
I would like to hear what others here think and feel about it when they come out and a well meaning friend says "oh you're so brave". Is it a mixed double edge for you or what?
Quote from: Nikita on December 24, 2017, 12:12:53 AM
Something about it never felt quite right, and the more I hear it the less I like it. People have kind intentions and want to say something positive and supportive, ok that's great, thanks. There is an unintentionally negative implicit side to it that is disturbing. In a sense, they are just handing you their own fears instead of welcoming you with real acceptance. This is not to fault people for trying to say the right thing, they are sincerely trying to give something positive, but it just doesn't feel right when I hear it. I don't let it bother me, but it seems to imply that there is something inherently wrong.
I would like to hear what others here think and feel about it when they come out and a well meaning friend says "oh you're so brave". Is it a mixed double edge for you or what?
There are far worse things that could be said. I use to get annoyed when people would say oh you are so brave for doing this! I would simile and say no, not brave just what needed to be done to save my life, so it was pretty self motivated. Now I see their point, change is something human beings don't embrace so radially and transition or stopping a life long charade is a MAJOR change. So now I take it for what it is a compliment of not fearing change and being true to myself. I had a friend ask why I took so long to stop living a fraudulent life? My response was this - I was responsible for the well being of my loved ones and my employees... When I reached the point I wanted to inject 240 grains of lead something needed to change. Take acceptance when it come, there are plenty of people who will hate you because you don't fit in their neat little cube on a shelf.
Yeah, that one bothers me too. Another one of my favorites is "Well, at least you're happy now."
In both cases, others are painting emotions on my experience in order to make themselves feel more comfortable. It may or may not reflect how I actually feel at the time.
It is one expression I loathe.
I hate it about being transgender.
I hate it about having cancer
I hate it about it looking after my wife
It is an expression used by the ignorant who have never stopped to think.
It really annoys me.
<Cough
In case you haven't noticed!>
I agree it's not the most supportive thing a person could say. But it doesn't bother me too much, because: (1) They mean well and are attempting to express non-hostility and admiration, and (2) Yes I am, dammit!
Yes, I get the negative implications. But that's about them: their lack of courage, their implicit acceptance of society's norms, their internalized transphobia. I don't have to accept any of that, because that's their stuff.
It's just one of those clueless, clumsy things that people mumble when they don't know what to say. I am enjoying a great ride here, so I'll cut them some slack and not jump down their throat when they are trying to be accepting.
My clinician at the gender clinic said that when people say it, what they really mean is aren't THEY brave for being so accepting and open minded, I think this is the reality.
But I still give then chips for effort! Lol
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I feel the same, not that I hate it, but that the phrase is about them. We are brave compared to them in that they cannot shake off the norm to embrace themselves. Their inability to comprehend or move forward makes others look brave.
I've yet to be in a situation where I hear it. I'll try to update should that occur.
I accept it because I am brave. Lol like today my nails are very messy, I didn't shave and I already got my first sir this morning. But I'm still sitting here, not really caring anymore
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Wow. Looking for acceptance from someone but not accepting what is surely meant as a heartfelt compliment...good luck with that approach.
I hear it from people and interpret it as meaning they are impressed that you are handling an issue of this caliber so well. But that's just me. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
I normally feel embarrassed and unworthy of the compliment is the reality.
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I don't really hate it that much. I've only been told that a couple of times. When someone makes a bone headed comment about me being trans, unless I know they meant it as an insult I can let it slide. Another one that annoys me is, " I would never have known you're/ you were a guy." Yes it's a stupid and insulting comment but people are stupid and ignorant about transpeople and what's appropriate to say to them. People generally mean that as a compliment. They also don't understand that transitioning isn't brave, it's life saving. But from a CIS persons point of view, trans people just woke up one morning and " decided" to transition. They think it's brave because they don't really understand that being trans isn't a choice. To them transition is scary. It's scary for us too but we have no choice. They can't comprehend that we totally have no other choice so to them it's a scary thing we choose to do. Kind of like someone choosing to do a scary dangerous stunt like jumping over cars on a motorcycle.
Knowing how ignorant people are, unless it's a real insult, I take most stupid things they say as a compliment, though idiotic it might be. People have made dumb comments to me about my albinism too that they meant as a kind of compliment.
Actually I like the recognition. I didn't transition for 50 years because I was scared. I finally got up the courage to be myself.
The one that bothered me was "congratulations". What did I hit the lottery?
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Depending on my mode, I take it as a compliment, or I say something back along the lines of "It's not bravery, it's exhaustion. I just couldn't live with myself anymore." Then I would continue with some self degrading observations about the person I used to be, as compared to the me now. Sometimes, people leave me looking as if I just opened a new world of thinking, and others just look more confused.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 24, 2017, 07:40:27 AM
Wow. Looking for acceptance from someone but not accepting what is surely meant as a heartfelt compliment...good luck with that approach.
I hear it from people and interpret it as meaning they are impressed that you are handling an issue of this caliber so well. But that's just me. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
I absolutely agree. It means they recognize how difficult this is to do even if they don't go through it themselves. I usually thank them and then tell them that I'm not that brave since I'm actually scared of it half the time lol.
While I feel the comment is in the eye of the beholder, it's one that many turn to because they don't know what to say. If they are close to you, I would expect many other comments amongst that one, which would be given out of love. Fear, at a number of levels, are in play in everyone's mind day to day. They base their thoughts with the norms that keep their lives going.
Expect comments that seem to be a cop out and build a conversation on it rather than feeling bad. Communication brings education.
Hugs, Jessica 💁♀️
Quote from: Charlie Nicki on December 24, 2017, 10:25:21 AM
I absolutely agree. It means they recognize how difficult this is to do even if they don't go through it themselves. I usually thank them and then tell them that I'm not that brave since I'm actually scared of it half the time lol.
Thats what I told my closest friend. I'm scared of what's ahead but even more so of the alternatives. If I give up now on the track I'm on it really is life or death. Very scary!
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Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 24, 2017, 07:40:27 AM
Wow. Looking for acceptance from someone but not accepting what is surely meant as a heartfelt compliment...good luck with that approach.
I hear it from people and interpret it as meaning they are impressed that you are handling an issue of this caliber so well. But that's just me. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
I don't advocate throwing the "compliment" back in their face or arguing about with them. I usually just say, "Thank you." That said, there is nothing wrong with recognizing that the person in question has no clue about either my tendency towards valor or my emotional state, and that they are more likely fumbling for something to say that eases their own discomfort. Strangers say, "I'm glad you're so brave/happy." Friends say, "How are you?"
I think we should give ourselves more credit. Basically brave people are the last ones to see themselves as brave. Read what war heroes have to say and it's basically just different versions of aw shucks. Lots of people are stuck in relationships and situations and don't do what we do. Go to a TDOR vigil and tell me were not brave. God, we get killed just for existing.
My go to person, my best cis girlfriend, my call me anytime, text me anytime person, told me I was the bravest person she knows. Well she's the best most wonderful and wise woman in the world, and if she thinks I'm brave, then I am. End of story.
Quote from: FreyaG on December 24, 2017, 09:18:27 PM
I think we should give ourselves more credit. Basically brave people are the last ones to see themselves as brave. Read what war heroes have to say and it's basically just different versions of aw shucks. Lots of people are stuck in relationships and situations and don't do what we do. Go to a TDOR vigil and tell me were not brave. God, we get killed just for existing.
My go to person, my best cis girlfriend, my call me anytime, text me anytime person, told me I was the bravest person she knows. Well she's the best most wonderful and wise woman in the world, and if she thinks I'm brave, then I am. End of story.
Freya I do believe we all are brave. Even with clear thinking certainty, this is a scary endeavor.
Nikita I can see that for sure. I feel it a double edge sword. I never know how to respond to it. I get their meaning but, it's just like "I am trying to be myself, not trying to be brave or anything." I mean if being myself is brave sure I'll take it.
Geez Dev, wake up on wrong side of bed? :-)
I think the first I heard this particular comment was at a local gallery where I read something quite emotional I'd written just a few days before.
The thing that got me was I prefaced my piece by talking some about trans experience and asked the audience who among them was familiar with the existence of Michfest and not a single person had heard of it. The group was made up of mostly women who certainly all identified as feminists. Now perhaps this says more about me being weird -- I am -- but I'd heard of Michfest long before I realized I was trans and it wasn't in the context of the events issues with trans women. I just felt I was in the presence of a lot of sheltered and privileged people.
And this was the time I got to hear "brave", and from a few different people. I have no doubt of their good intentions however the sincerity I have to question because I also haven't heard anything from any of these people since.
People who I really count as friends don't say distancing things like this. Also I agree with what other things people ha e said. While yes, I have a measure of courage, transition has been about necessity, not bravery.
Quote from: Nikita on December 24, 2017, 12:12:53 AM
I would like to hear what others here think and feel about it when they come out and a well meaning friend says "oh you're so brave". Is it a mixed double edge for you or what?
No, not really. Courage, or being brave, to me is about doing something you're terrified of doing. Coming out to someone
can be terrifying. It can be gut-wrenchingly, paralysingly, heart-stoppingly the hardest thing you ever have to do. A lot of things to do with transitioning can. And I've felt like that on a number of occasions. The maelstrom in your mind as you try to figure out how someone will react... the feeling that your mouth is like sandpaper... the overwhelming urge to just shove it all inside and say nothing.
To me being brave isn't being fearless. It's being scared to death, and going through with something in spite of that fear. So if someone said it to me I would agree with them. And thank them for the compliment. Because I think coming out to someone
can be one of the most courageous things anyone can do. Not because there's something wrong with them, but because they're taking the leap and putting their trust in someone else, and handing control over to someone else, in spite of perhaps being utterly terrified of doing so. It's facing a fear and choosing to go through with something in spite of it. To not let it beat them. And that, to me,
is brave.
I personally dislike the term mainly because of the way it has been used with me. It is the one and only thing my mother said to me when I came out to her over 2 years ago. Despite acknowledging how difficult this journey would be for me she has done nothing at all to help in any even remotely small way and has basically disappeared from my life....
"You are so brave".....translation..."what I really mean is, I am so brave to have to endure you being trans"
I can't remember where I read it but one woman said it was about as brave as running out of a burning building. I tend to agree with that, its not bravery its a biological imperative.
Quote from: rmaddy on December 24, 2017, 12:38:39 AM
Yeah, that one bothers me too. Another one of my favorites is "Well, at least you're happy now."
Oh, I can't stand that one. Typically the only time I hear that is after I've responded to some social injustice that affects Trans-people and someone will say this. The comments can always be delivered with different intentions depending on the context and how much condescension is attached.
Regardless, It's as if they believe we've been granted a privilege to be ourselves at the expense of all our other civil rights. I usually interpret that as a conversation killer.
As for being brave? I felt a wide range of things about transition, but being brave was never ever one of them. I cringe when I hear people say that, but in reality, most of them have such limited experience with trans-people and the process, they just use a cliche most Americas have been conditioned to use. I don't take it personally.
Nope, doesn't bother me.
Being trans and facing up to it, and going through with transition is downright terrifying, or would be if I allowed my mind to go there for too long. The people around me are genuinely concerned for my safety. There are health risks. The Western world is becoming a more frightening and hostile place for those of us born in the relatively mild 70s, 80s and 90s. And this is a path you walk absolutely alone within your own skin.
So while it's a cliche expression, and it is an expression of their fears for you, it's also true. I don't know many people around me who'd have the guts for this.
Do I feel brave? Yes and no. No because I'm winging it anyway, and I don't care all that much what happens to me. Yes because this is basically an experiment on my body, this is going into the unknown. There are people out there in the world who would happily imprison or murder me for it, too. If I lived in certain countries and was transitioning, I'd consider myself brave, and lucky if I wasn't attacked.
But feeling brave is on your own scale. I don't
feel especially at risk, so I don't feel especially brave.
Quote"Well, at least you're happy now."
Not heard this one yet, but I expect it'll come out of someone's mouth sooner or later.
Quote from: Faith on December 24, 2017, 07:30:24 AM
I feel the same, not that I hate it, but that the phrase is about them. We are brave compared to them in that they cannot shake off the norm to embrace themselves. Their inability to comprehend or move forward makes others look brave.
I've yet to be in a situation where I hear it. I'll try to update should that occur.
Well, that was fast. I have now officially been told "You are so brave"
HR lady at work at the end of our conversation said it. I must say, it did not put me off at all. They way she said it, in context & manner, I knew and felt exactly her intention. I didn't have any problem with it.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on December 24, 2017, 07:40:27 AM
I hear it from people and interpret it as meaning they are impressed that you are handling an issue of this caliber so well. But that's just me. :)
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Megan. on December 24, 2017, 07:48:57 AM
I normally feel embarrassed and unworthy of the compliment is the reality.
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I have heard this a few times in different contexts. I like to think I accept it much in the way Devyln says and react to it much like Megan. I react with embarrassed unworthiness because the way I see it, I didn't consider my action anything exceptional it was just the way things turned out for me or something that I needed to do.
There is an exception though and that is I think the way Cindy feels about her cancer. I agreed to having my kidney operation because if I didn't the cancer would kill me. When it came back they told me I was going to die. So when it returned and they decided to cut out half my pancreas and few few ancillary things, I agreed to that too. And when it came back a second time and they told me it was inoperable, and again told me I was going to die. I asked about a treatment that could have killed me itself which only had a 28% chance of helping at all, anywhere from a little bit to a fraction of percent chance of curing me. When they told me they were willing to try it, I again agreed. I put my affairs in order and let them try to kill me with poison 21 times out of a max of 28 possible before I called it off having had enough. So far, so good. As of my last screening I am still cancer free and that one made it 3 years since they released me. The next time will kill me.
When your choice is to do something, take a gamble or die, it is not being brave, it is survival. You either do it or die. What would your choice be?
Laurie
This has been said to me more times than I can remember. It has come mostly from people I work with after (officially) coming out back in July of 2017.
It doesn't really bother me though. What I usually say is something like, "I don't know how much of it is courage and how much is me just saying, 'Screw it, I've got to do this'."
I've gotten that twice: once when shopping for makeup in male mode and another from someone I'm very close with who was simply admiring the strength it took for me to make myself go out in the public eye as my authentic self. Both times, it felt nice to have someone recognize how difficult it can be to be yourself in a society that wants us to stuff ourselves into a tiny box, never to be seen again. It takes strength to stand against the current and bravery to attempt it boldly. But, that's been my experience.