Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transsexual talk => Topic started by: Nero on December 15, 2007, 10:14:02 PM

Title: Men need women
Post by: Nero on December 15, 2007, 10:14:02 PM
Men need women.
A bachelor or widower needs his mother.
That's all there is to it.
Men need women.

Your thoughts?
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Wing Walker on December 15, 2007, 10:19:07 PM
Agreed.  It's that simple.

Wing Walker
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Kimberly on December 15, 2007, 11:15:10 PM
Wouldn't gay guys disagree?
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: NicholeW. on December 15, 2007, 11:36:59 PM
Quote from: Nero on December 15, 2007, 10:14:02 PM
Men need women.
A bachelor or widower needs his mother.
That's all there is to it.
Men need women.

Your thoughts?

I agree. I don't think orientation matters a whole lot to what you're saying, Nero.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Nero on December 16, 2007, 01:48:31 AM
Quote from: Kimberly on December 15, 2007, 11:15:10 PM
Wouldn't gay guys disagree?

I think they would still need relationships with women in some form - their mother or girlfriends.
Maybe not. But I think women have something men lack and need in their lives.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Marlene on December 16, 2007, 01:48:43 AM
Quote from: Nichole W. on December 15, 2007, 11:36:59 PM
Quote from: Nero on December 15, 2007, 10:14:02 PM
Men need women.
A bachelor or widower needs his mother.
That's all there is to it.
Men need women.

Your thoughts?

I agree. I don't think orientation matters a whole lot to what you're saying, Nero.

I beg to differ.  This little diddy is incredibly heteronormative.  I'm straight myself, but I know how much statements like these drive my queer friends nuts.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Nero on December 16, 2007, 02:04:03 AM
Quote from: Marlene on December 16, 2007, 01:48:43 AM
Quote from: Nichole W. on December 15, 2007, 11:36:59 PM
Quote from: Nero on December 15, 2007, 10:14:02 PM
Men need women.
A bachelor or widower needs his mother.
That's all there is to it.
Men need women.

Your thoughts?

I agree. I don't think orientation matters a whole lot to what you're saying, Nero.

I beg to differ.  This little diddy is incredibly heteronormative.  I'm straight myself, but I know how much statements like these drive my queer friends nuts.

Hi Marlene.

This wasn't at all meant as a homophobic sentiment. It was just a thought I had about how lost I would be without my mother and how the ladies here are almost like stand-ins for the sisters I miss so much. I do think all men need some form of relationships with women.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Lin on December 16, 2007, 02:24:13 AM
I guess they do need women, wife, girlfriend, mother... maybe even a daughter count?
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Marlene on December 16, 2007, 02:44:51 AM
Quote from: Nero on December 16, 2007, 02:04:03 AMHi Marlene.

This wasn't at all meant as a homophobic sentiment. It was just a thought I had about how lost I would be without my mother and how the ladies here are almost like stand-ins for the sisters I miss so much. I do think all men need some form of relationships with women.

I'm sorry, but you misunderstand.  The problem isn't one of homophobia, it's one of assumption.  You assume everyone should relate to your (heteronormative) experience.  As a result a queer person feels left out, or worse, snubbed.  Don't take this as being critical.  Society in general makes lots of assumptions and tends to marginalize people who don't fit in.  But when it comes to sexuality this marginalization can happen without you knowing it because you can't tell if someones gay/lesbian by looking at them.  Approximately 90% of people are hetero and as a result most people assume that other people they meet are too.  This invariably leads to the other 10% feelings being trampled on pretty consistently.  Just be aware that your assumptions can sometimes be wrong.

Sorry for the rant, but I hear about it A LOT from certain friends.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Dorothy on December 16, 2007, 02:50:25 AM
Women are like flowers and the world needs flowers, so yes, except for my mean neighbor lady shes a dandelion.  Personally I could live in a world without men and never miss them.  But I dont live in that kind of world and I do enjoy the interaction I have with the men I know... sometimes.. for very short periods of time.. like say.... minutes. I know I know Im intolerant!! I cant help it!!

Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Keira on December 16, 2007, 03:58:01 AM

Marlene, everybody assume's that everybody's like them
and cannot put themselves in another's position. That's
why empathy is so lacking.

My uncle's gay and you can't believe how often he tried
to convince me I'm gay, even after I've explained to
him 100 times that I'm not. I've known plenty of
gays, stayed awhile with him in Miami,
and most of those I've met
hink that there are way more
gay in society than 5% (or whatever's the
popular percentage of the day).
They're understanding of TS is very very skewed.



Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Butterfly on December 16, 2007, 05:19:34 AM
Men definately need women. Plain and simple.

Quote from: Marlene on December 16, 2007, 02:44:51 AM

Just be aware that your assumptions can sometimes be wrong.


Oh that hardly happens on these boards ::)  You put it perfectly.  Your assumptions can sometimes be wrong.  If we just learned to respect everybodys opinion without throwing a tantrum everytime we disagree with them, life would be so much simpler.  Holly Macaroni!
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: noeleena on December 16, 2007, 05:55:25 AM
hi ..... Pia ....some thing you said how long ago did you ...feel ...that way about men did you not get on in the acceapted way of men just being who they are or was it from a very young age ??? please comment some how it rings a bell....         nero ....tell me what you think women have that men dont    interesting comment ..i would like to know more on this please..... noeleena 8)
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Valentina on December 16, 2007, 09:05:34 AM
Quote from: Butterfly on December 16, 2007, 05:19:34 AM
If we just learned to respect everybodys opinion without throwing a tantrum everytime we disagree with them, life would be so much simpler.  Holly Macaroni!

Hee hee. hee.  How true! but the way I see it, it isn't happening.. ;)
Men are more needy. They need us so much more than we will ever need them. Women tend to have more friends and be more self-sufficient; we are happy to spend time in our own company, while men get bored and lonely if left on their own. 
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: BCL on December 16, 2007, 09:07:15 AM
We all need each other, men need women, women need men, men need other men and women need other women.

It a social thing.......

Rebecca
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Marlene on December 16, 2007, 10:01:49 AM
Quote from: Butterfly on December 16, 2007, 05:19:34 AM
Men definately need women. Plain and simple.

Quote from: Marlene on December 16, 2007, 02:44:51 AM

Just be aware that your assumptions can sometimes be wrong.


Oh that hardly happens on these boards ::)  You put it perfectly.  Your assumptions can sometimes be wrong.  If we just learned to respect everybodys opinion without throwing a tantrum everytime we disagree with them, life would be so much simpler.  Holly Macaroni!

This is another trait of a group in a large majority: They deny a probelm (such as the one I mention) even exists!  Open your minds people.  "Whipping Girl" by Julia Serrano explains this phenomenon well.  Unfortunately the messenger (like me) is often dismissed or heckled ("Tantrum") because you don't want to hear the truth.

Keira: We can't put ourselves in somebody elses shoes, but we can at acknowledge there is more than one path, one interpretation.

Dismissing someone, without giving what they are saying any thought, is the same as what many non's do to us when we come out.  It's the same phenomenon.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Keira on December 16, 2007, 02:17:57 PM

Marlene, you talk about many paths and you also talk about people not wanting
to hear the truth... Contradictory hey. Truth is a viewpoint based assessment.

So, that's your truth, not an universal truth. There are very
few things all people will agree is true, at best we can reach concensus amongst
some people which share a common background.

When we move away from commonality, consensus becomes very very hard
and any notion of common truth impossible. Why do you think
there's so much problem in the world.

Look at the problem getting an agreement on Global warming when the
end result will be catastrophic for all. Many are not talking the same "language"
and I'm not talking chinese or english here.

From what I've heard of Serano's book, and I've heard plenty here,
this is not truth as I see it. And don't tell me to read it because
I DON'T HAVE THE TIME OR THE INCLINATION.
That's why there are reviews and word of mouth.
At most, I can try to understand why you think it is truth
(your point of view) and maybe incorporates some bribes I find interesting. I NEVER
accept things wholesale, especially coming from a book. There's no book that
corners truth, its too fleeting an animal.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: lisagurl on December 16, 2007, 02:20:32 PM
Contrasts are good, needs are something else.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Berliegh on December 16, 2007, 02:29:57 PM
Re: Men need women

Not proven.....and what about christians like Cliff Richard and guys like him. He's not gay and doesn't need a partner?

I also know a guy who hasn't been with a women for about 20 years and he's not gay and he's not bothered or worried about finding a women........

it's stereotyping again..
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Nero on December 16, 2007, 03:22:21 PM
*sigh*

Marlene and Berliegh:

This post was not about sexual orientation or significant others at all.
I believe that every man needs at least some form of relationship with women to be fulfilled. Be it a mother, sister, daughter, grand daughter, or friend.
This is my opinion and was not meant in a sexual context at all, let alone a homophobic one.
Good grief!
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Nero on December 16, 2007, 03:26:06 PM
Quote from: Berliegh on December 16, 2007, 03:24:18 PM
Quote from: Nero on December 16, 2007, 03:22:21 PM
*sigh*

Marlene and Berliegh:

This post was not about sexual orientation or significant others at all.
I believe that every man needs at least some form of relationship with women to be fulfilled. Be it a mother, sister, daughter, grand daughter, or friend.
This is my opinion and was not meant in a sexual context at all, let alone a homophobic one.
Good grief!

I also know a guy who hasn't been with a women for about 20 years and he's not gay and he's not bothered or worried about finding a women........

it's stereotyping

But again, I'm not talking about romantic relationships.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Berliegh on December 16, 2007, 03:30:31 PM
There are many other examples of men who do not need women and they are not gay either.

But I understand what you are saying as well Nero. There are also a lot of men who need women but not always for sexual reasons, they can also be for companionship and to avoid loneliness..

Title: more on 'what women have'
Post by: Nero on December 16, 2007, 04:31:12 PM
yep. :)

Posted on: December 16, 2007, 04:48:16 PM
Quote from: noeleena on December 16, 2007, 05:55:25 AMnero ....tell me what you think women have that men dont    interesting comment ..i would like to know more on this please..... noeleena 8)

Women have something so magical, it defies description, but I will try.

Woman = life

The earth is woman. The sea is woman. The sun is woman. The moon is woman.

Woman creates life. Woman sustains life.

Families are matriarchal. Woman is the core.

Woman is beauty. Woman is nature. Woman is nurture.

Women keep things running.

Women keep men grounded.

Women speak up when men are wrong.

Without women, men would be far less behaved.

Put simply - women are mothers and men are children.

Even if a woman has no children, she has the heart of a mother. She is a mother.

Woman stands for life.





I fully expect this to be chopped to pieces. :P





Posted on: December 16, 2007, 05:10:33 PM
A woman is capable of both the greatest good and the greatest evil.

She has the capacity for the most extreme kindness and the most extreme cruelty.

She can create and she can destroy.

She can heal with one look

Or kill with one look.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: mickiejr1815 on December 16, 2007, 07:25:58 PM
i will state my two cents worth as a male(LOL), i do need women such as my wife, my daughter, the women i work with, my mother in-law when she is around, my sister-in-law who is closer to me than my own sisters who i have recently disowned(long long story) as well as my mother. no, in my situation, I do not need my mother or blood sisters, especially not after the way my mother has treated me. i have all the women i need in my life and i happy. and i agree with nero, women ARE everything she says, i see it all too well every day.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Butterfly on December 16, 2007, 07:30:21 PM
Marlene, my mind is quite open, thank you kindly.  So what if this Julia Serrano explains the subject quite well?  it is still her OPINION.  I am enchanted that you support her POINT OF VIEW, but as Keira has said, it is just that a point of view.  I keep sensing a confrontational tone in your answers.  Telling peeps to open their minds or to read this or that is uncalled for.  One can suggest but never demand.  Sorry for the frankness.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Ms Bev on December 16, 2007, 09:25:16 PM
Gee, Nero, the opposite side of that coin (yah, coins are either heads or tails.....male or female?....) would be that women need men. Not all, Nero, not all.

Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Blanche on December 16, 2007, 10:53:34 PM
I'd say that it's pretty equal, that women need men and vice-versa. And sex and reproduction aside, there are attributes that both genders possess. Men may build the modern world in a physical sense. They are usually bigger and stronger and more muscular. But women make the home and nurture the children. And in the business world, they also lend their expertise.
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: tinkerbell on December 17, 2007, 08:30:36 PM
QuoteMen need women

Of course they do.  They can't live without us!  In recent decades, unmarried women have consistently fared better, both physically and mentally, than single men.  So there!  :P

tink :icon_chick:
Title: Re: Men need women
Post by: Pica Pica on December 17, 2007, 08:33:49 PM
I need women. They let me talk and listen. With men I have to chose one or t'other.