Intro
Hillo, it would look like I have been gone from this site for 2 years. Thinking about getting active on this site again but putting that aside, in my time away I took a class in Critical Thinking and from that I have a topic I have been wanting to look into and am curious to gather opinions and information from other people, so PLEASE FEEL FREE TO GIVE YOUR THOUGHTS NO MATTER WHAT THEY ARE. This is not to argue, it is to learn (doesn't mean you can't peacefully debate though).
The topic: Is gender dysphoria required in order to be considered transgender?
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Questioning and My Hypothesis
Recently I've been seeing people arguing over this topic. I see people saying yes it is absolutely without a doubt required and I see people who say I don't think really haveto and then it just turns into a "ya-huh, na-uh" argument.
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I want to know if people believe that if you say you don't have gender dysphoria then you aren't really trans, maybe just faking it (idk I saw people say that).
or
Does anybody believe in the possibility to be trans without considering yourself to be experiencing gender dysphoria.
I myself like to be open and I like to support the possibility of not having gender dysphoria but still being trans.
The following is my reasoning as to why:
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My Reasoning
I think the main reason a debate on this exists is due to not everyone agreeing on what the words mean. According to Marriam-Webster the two terms are defined as:
"transgender: of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity differs from the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth; especially : of, relating to, or being a person whose gender identity is opposite the sex the person had or was identified as having at birth"
"gender dysphoria: a distressed state arising from conflict between a person's gender identity and the sex the person has or was identified as having at birth; also : a psychological disorder marked by such distress"
The thing is, I see people who will tell me the definition of gender dysphoria, but they use the definition given for transgender listed above. There is a slight difference that I notice in the two that I prefer to go by. Both terms refer to the issue of your identified gender not matching your birth sex but "gender dysphoria" explains it as "a distressed state" due to that conflict, "transgender" doesn't.
I personally believe that the difference is that to be defined as trans, you are somebody who feels they don't match their birth sex and would like to change that. To be diagnosed with gender dysphoria you should be having difficulties, hardships, and high dissatisfaction with yourself DUE TO THIS REASON. It is from this belief that I like to think that perhaps it is possible to slip under that radar and be considered trans without experiencing the gender dysphoria.
+What of people who do feel they were born the wrong sex, but although they wish to change this they aren't highly dissatisfied with their life, they just really feel like they will be happier off if they transition? Can this be?
+What of people who maybe are dysphoric about life, but not specifically due to gender dysphoria? What if they hate life due to outside reasons like family, failure, financial issues, etc. and because of this they just don't care anymore with their current situation about not feeling right in their body. To them it's just another problem and it can't even hurt them anymore cuz they just don't care or believe they will ever get to transition. Can this be?
+What of people who feel stuck? They wan't to transition, but they are afraid and they lack the motivation because they just don't feel "hurt" enough over it making them feel like maybe they shouldn't bother. Can this be?
+What of people who are just so numbed to pain due to trauma when younger that they just don't feel anything anymore? They have a want to transition but because they can't feel anything they think why bother. Can this be?
Can it be? Can there be ways that you can be considered transgender but you have some way you are bypassing gender dysphoria? I believe so. I see people calling others fake for trying to claim they don't experience it. That they are only transitioning to be cool. I just can't agree with this.
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Conclusion
I feel there can be situations to make this idea possible. After all, dysphoria is a very strong word and there are so many different types of people in different situations that it just seems wrong to me to set this rule on it that you can't be trans if your not dysphoric about your gender. I feel like probably every trans person feels discomfort over their situation, but I don't really believe that everyone experiences discomfort so strong it should be considered dysphoric. I like to stay open for the possibility. I don't believe any trans person has a perfect life, we still have hardships and get depressed, as does pretty much any human on this earth, but to be depressed and to be dysphoric, I say there is a difference and I do not believe it is what determines if you are transgender.
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Thank you for reading!
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Remember, this is my opinion based on the viewpoints of what I have seen. I would REALLY love to get other people's opinions on this topic.
If you disagree with this idea completely, PLEASE leave me a comment explaining to me why you believe otherwise.
If you believe it canbe possible, PLEASE leave a comment with your thoughts on why you think so.
And remember, let's not kill each other over this either :o
Debating is fine, arguing isn't :laugh:
To me it is very distressing to live life in an incorrect gender. I guess it is possible to have someone incredibly mellow, Gandi-like, who is in the wrong gender situation and not be stressed by it. It would take a strength that I do not have. I think that sometimes nontransitioners have felt a bit disrespected in certain conversations. Anyone who can be trans and find peace in life without moving on it in some manner has my respect for their strength.
Moni
I have reached a point of acceptance where I do not experience dysphoria, though this wasn't always the case. I am happy enough with my progress, and accepting enough of what I cannot change.....but it took years to get to this point
I can certainly see that a transgender person who has transitioned to whatever degree they needed to (including not at all if that is what worked for them) would not have dysphoria. I don't understand how a pre-transition trans person would not have dysphoria in some form unless they didn't want to transition at all.
Ultimately, it is a semantic argument.
Quote from: HappyMoni on January 13, 2018, 08:08:24 PM
To me it is very distressing to live life in an incorrect gender. I guess it is possible to have someone incredibly mellow, Gandi-like, who is in the wrong gender situation and not be stressed by it. It would take a strength that I do not have. I think that sometimes nontransitioners have felt a bit disrespected in certain conversations. Anyone who can be trans and find peace in life without moving on it in some manner has my respect for their strength.
Moni
Could it better work opposite though? Can they be in the situation but aren't mellow? They are very stressed and dysphoric but it's not gender causing the issue? My question is basically can you still be dysphoric over life, but not classify as having "gender" dysphoria. Is it possible to just be in a state of mind where you are SO out of it due to a traumatic past perhaps that you have been stripped of emotion and thusforth it's not necessarily the gender thing that is causing your issues? Would you still be considered to have gender dysphoria then? I don't know, tis why I like to discuss this.
Quote from: KathyLauren on January 13, 2018, 08:20:06 PM
Ultimately, it is a semantic argument.
I cannot deny that. But it is the semantics of it entirely that I am questioning about it to begin with. I'm just curious to see if anybody else sees the words in those ways or if they are seen in ways that lock out any possibility. Thanks for your input though.
A few different thoughts that sum up my feelings, all able to stand alone but work together.
1) We all react to things differently. If someone has the same disease as you but different symptoms, it doesn't mean they don't have that disease. (Not to call being trans a disease in the slightest, simply using a disease in an easy comparison in terms of symptoms and indications.)
2) There are many different things under the trans umbrella. To say it is necessary to be dysphoric to be under the umbrella term is exclusionary towards less traditional identities, even if perhaps it would be appropriate for a more specific distilled sub-identity. (It's probably mostly self sorting anyway. Those without some form of dysphoria probably don't often label as binary transsexual for instance.)
3) There's always the larger semantic issue in that all of the terms are pretty loosely defined and a matter of self identification to begin with. (Edit: Oops, had a "not" in there for some reason.)
Quote from: Roll on January 14, 2018, 12:47:26 AM
1) We all react to things differently. If someone has the same disease as you but different symptoms, it doesn't mean they don't have that disease. (Not to call being trans a disease in the slightest, simply using a disease in an easy comparison in terms of symptoms and indications.)
Hey I really like that analogy. Thanks for that, interesting way to look at it :D
I never knew there's people who transition without ever experiencing gender dysphoria. They're the lucky few I guess?
Did you say childhood trauma would block feelings of gd? I actually heard the opposite where it heightens it
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And there's why I never did anything. I didn't think I had any dysphoria, I just had an "idea" that I was really a woman. It didn't particularly seem to stress me out much, sometimes it was there, sometimes it wasn't, without reason. It wasn't until I explained my situation to my therapist and have him look at me skeptically, ask a few pointed questions and wait for the lightglobe to go off in my head. The realisation that a whole bunch of those "nagging little doubts" about myself were actually gender dysphoria was instructive, to say the least.
My point after all my drivel? I think it's possible to be trans and not realise you have dysphoria - the definition is murky, as is its manifestation.
Hi PurplePelican, welcome to Susan's - I'm sure a mod will be along with the welcome pack shortly of links and such.
Your answer highlights beautifully why we pretty much always suggest seeing a therapist, I'm so pleased that yours is being supportive.
See you on the forums
Rowan
I did not have a name for my discomfort until I stumbled over the term gender dysphoria. It was like a piece of puzzle that had been missing.
If you can be transgender without gender dysphoria? I guess some degree of dysphoria is part of being transgender. Those who say they have no dysphoria...then they don't want/feel a need to change their body or taking hormones. They are happy with them selves.
Maybe they fit on the transgender scale but not at the part where dysphoria rules.
Tony
I read this thread earlier, but although it intrigued me I couldn't bring myself to post a reply. It's now been a few hours, and I've been thinking about why. I still am not sure, but think I'm getting a bit closer.
I realise now that I don't quite understand what dysphoria means. I do understand what discomfort means. I also understand what pain means. And hunger, yearning, loneliness, sorrow, terror and despair.
If dysphoria is an umbrella term for any and all of these, then yes, I've felt it. That doesn't change the fact that to me it seems like a tidy clinical term that puts any and all negative feelings in a tiny, tidy, prefabricated box that strips them of all emotion.
I dislike the fact that the word itself feels ambiguous to me. It doesn't evoke any images or feelings. In my mind I've never felt "dysphoria." Just a mixture of emotions.
I know this is all semantics, so what I've said upsets someone I apologise. All I really want to state is that I would never want to use the word in regard to myself or anyone I personally am in touch with.
Quote from: Sam314 on January 13, 2018, 07:33:42 PMThe topic: Is gender dysphoria required in order to be considered transgender?
No.
As others have noted, this is largely a semantic game -- the ambiguity here is that we have lots of different ideas of what it means to "be trans." For some, "trans" means specifically "transsexual" where there's gender dysphoria and the desire to transition along the binary. For others, "trans" means any kind of gender variance in expression or identity. For me, "trans" is a
social category created through the act of disclosure or "coming out." Obviously, we'll get different answers to your question depending on our assumptions.
Rather than trying to engage in a semantic debate, it might be more fruitful to explore the particulars of a situation. Someone wants to transition, but doesn't experience GD. There are many reasons why this can be. First, having a lot of other complicating factors -- other traumas. They might be so acute that they drown out the GD. Some people might be more effective at repressing GD (perhaps because of the aforementioned reason) than others.
I say it doesn't matter.
What matters is what you want to do with your life going forward.
And how you handle your life afterwards. For example, Jackie transitions, and no longer experiences gender dysphoria, but she transitioned in her home town and still lives there; everyone knows. She's still trans (in my opinion) while not experiencing GD. Because (in my opinion) trans is a social category. Darlene, on the other hand, transitioned and went stealth. She lived a woman's life for so long it changed her memories; she honestly doesn't remember her past as a part that isn't completely female. I'd say she's no longer trans. She's just female.
Quote from: Sam314 on January 13, 2018, 11:33:25 PMMy question is basically can you still be dysphoric over life, but not classify as having "gender" dysphoria. Is it possible to just be in a state of mind where you are SO out of it due to a traumatic past perhaps that you have been stripped of emotion and thusforth it's not necessarily the gender thing that is causing your issues? Would you still be considered to have gender dysphoria then? I don't know, tis why I like to discuss this.
The GD might still be there, but it's not being heard due to the other complicating factors. It might not be recognizable until the co-morbid conditions have been addressed.
Quote from: PurplePelican on January 14, 2018, 03:22:44 AM
And there's why I never did anything. I didn't think I had any dysphoria, I just had an "idea" that I was really a woman. It didn't particularly seem to stress me out much, sometimes it was there, sometimes it wasn't, without reason. It wasn't until I explained my situation to my therapist and have him look at me skeptically, ask a few pointed questions and wait for the lightglobe to go off in my head. The realisation that a whole bunch of those "nagging little doubts" about myself were actually gender dysphoria was instructive, to say the least.
My point after all my drivel? I think it's possible to be trans and not realise you have dysphoria - the definition is murky, as is its manifestation.
(I almost included a #4 about this very thing, in people may not be actually recognizing dysphoria but still have it. Had it all typed up but deleted it.)
This was also true for me. I thought I didn't qualify as transgender because I didn't feel suicidal, or hate my genitals, or any of a number of other things. If someone had asked me if I had dysphoria, I would have said a resounding no. Yet if someone had come to me and said "here's a magic potion to turn you 100% female instantly", I would drink it no questions asked. Which is a pretty definitively trans thing to do, but I still didn't have dysphoria. Well, turns out I was very wrong and I had all sorts of gender dysphoria going on to pretty extreme levels, I just wasn't processing it in a typical fashion because of other factors such as severe anxiety disorders (I became a shut-in basically).
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On the original question for this thread, my thoughts are... heck, all I know is I'm transgender. I don't worry too much if this was triggered by dysphoria at what point, probably was but I know the end results. It's an important question, I just wanted a hand with the overall answer so I went to a therapist before starting HRT prescription last summer. Talking to a qualified therapist leverages several years' of their education focused on this topic and their continuous professional experience.
Technically, no - someone could potentially wake up one day and just decide they're going to transition, and not suffer at all. It could be a want and not a need, and that person would still go under the T umbrella.
In the world at large though, most people have some degree of suffering that makes them want to transition in the first place. It just doesn't tend to occur to people otherwise. 5 minutes with a cis person on the subject and you can see it's not something they tend to even think about or have occur to them until they meet someone trans.
In my case there was a ton of associated dysphoria, rejection of things, dissociation, yadda yadda yadda. None of that was chosen, I don't even especially want to be male, it's just the way it is.
Hi Sam,
First as you said, to be diagnosed as transgender, you must have experienced some form of gender dysphoria according to the DSM. Being diagnosed was a confirmation for me.
Why? Because I lived for 64 years believing I was a man. And frankly I sucked at it. I had never heard of GD until November 2016 and was on HRT about a month later. During most of those years I cross dressed. I started this young and I knew back in the 1950s that it was wrong. It did cause me much distress and fear because it was wrong and fear of being caught. Boys back then just did not do those things. I enjoyed the same games and learn the same home skills as my sisters did. Oh I did boy things too but I always envied the girls for their pretty clothes and hair and thing they were able to do because I was a boy. I wished I was a girl but knew I was a boy.
This wish persisted throughout growing up. My desires to cross dress persisted too and I researched it only to find out I was sick and more demented than I thought. I was a deviate or a pervert and maybe both. Yet I continued to dress in spite of trying to stop. Cross dressing I finally discovered was something I "Had" to do and was unable to stop. By now I hated myself and the shameful secret I harbored. It caused family problems and bad behaviors on my part and I hated myself all the more and continued to wish I was a woman. Cross dress gave me relief. When I took off my male clothes and put on female clothes it was like I was removing the weight of the world from my shoulder. I shed all my hate and responsibilities I had as a man, husband, father and of my job. The just didn't exist for me during that time. It was my escape.
As my hate of myself increased I turned to alcohol and drugs abusing both. I lost my family, job, and father within 6 months. About a year and into depression I almost blew my head off with a shotgun. It took two years to become functional again and move on with my life. I quit drug, alcohol, and smoking. Still my crossdressing and wish to be a woman continued.
That November in 2016 I discovered the GD term and looked into it and say how it fit into my life. But was I trans? I was on HRT DIY but still that question. Did I experience this Dysphoria? I wasn't sure. I did think I had to be honest. I came out to my doctor, he asked some questions and asked if I want to get HRT through the VA. Apparently he thought I was trans. I talked to a shrink to see if I was mentally stable before being refereed to a gender therapist. After an hour of questions she diagnosed me with GD and I got the referral.
In talking to my therapist and a few others I have come to understand that though I did not think I had been experiencing gender dysphoria virtually all my life. I can see where it has played a part in all my life's problems. I can see how if shaped my character and anger. It and society were responsible for my self hate, insecurities, low self esteem. My wish to be a girl all my life was part of it too.
TL;DR I believe some people live wit gender dysphoria without know that is what they are dealing with and I for one will go with the DSM that GD is required to be trans. Knowledge of that GD is not required.
Hugs,
Laurie
I can't keep up to reply to every single person, but I just wanted to thank everyone for their inputs on the topic.
It is indeed very useful to me to hear more interpretations on it.
I guess a person could have fun with both and just prefer one over the other but I am not sure that is enough to motivate a transition of body to match soul. I would guess something must justify the dramatic length that is a transition. Curiosity or escapism would be doomed to fail I suspect and either of those might lead to regret dysphoria.
For me it is annoying and wasting my precious time not being in the right body, but it only gets me down if I let it as instead I thank my lucky stars I at least now know what was wrong.