I posted some weeks ago on another thread about basically being somewhat in the cold when it came to my male co workers, but boy how things changed the week I posted lol.
My voice got deeper and I pass alot better now.
I rarely get "she" or "her" and if I do it's like a oversight.
Anyways time for a rant and maybe a small tangent.
I finally came to the realization that I am finally becoming one of the bros.
I even have a bromance lol.
The only thing is, it's still weird and somewhat awkward now being in that clique.
I joke and play things off, but it can get weird.
If you thought guys said gross stuff around women, wait until there is no women around.
I don't know if it's weird or them being d bags.
It still feels right, like this was the group I wanted or should be with but it still weird.
Whereas I feel comfortable with my female group of co-workers, but I get bored or uninterested in alot of their subjects.
(Yay, a story)
Yesterday my boss (who's very close to us in age) and I
Were talking about a female co-worker. We're both in relationships so when he mentioned how hot she is
I agreed and left it like that out of respect for my gf and the female co-worker as well.
He kept going on, and making underhanded sexual remarks.
I would just laugh it off and agree. Immediately when she came back I felt bad lol.
I guess I need time to adjust to that but it made me wonder back when I identified as a girl if someone was making comments like that about me.
It's the type of men they are. There are men who don't talk like that and who don't feel they have to to show off. I know guys that do, but I also know they are throwaway comments and if a woman seriously needed their help they would step up to help her. They are not woman-haters. The same could be said of the gay guys I know making banter about other gay men they know. I pay it no mind because those people will not hear it and it means next to nothing anyway.
I don't feel awkward around any of the men I know. They know my origins and I take being a party to the "banter" as indication I'm not being treated as they treat women, which is to shield them from any thing that might offend their ears. I don't much care for the banter but I appreciate what it means about my status.
You will need time to adjust for sure. Just remember women do the same thing - In the past I've sat in a room while a bunch of women talked about how big or small some guy's dick is, or how stupid men are, or how useless their husband is, or how "men are only good for one thing", and I wasn't impressed by that either.
Yeah, it's still weird.
I'm a member of a mostly male club. I'm talking big club too, women are welcome but women are simply not that into the sport. So it's all guys.
It gets weird when I don't match their skillset, like repairing a tractor. They're patient but it's pretty obvious I'm the dum-dum of the group at times. I'm pretty sure they sigh behind my back :P
Male language I don't mind, but I had to adjust to how rough it can be and that it doesn't mean anything most of the time, it's just banter. I'm an ass sometimes but once you start engaging in male talk is when you realize how "correct" and nice girls usually are
Girls are often nice "to your face", or to the group, but behind someone's back? Oh yeah, they can be awful if they don't like you.
Men are the opposite in general. Rough up front, won't bother being two-faced like females can be.
I prefer the straightforward quality of men there. Mind games and dishonesty annoys me.
Quote from: Kylo on January 31, 2018, 06:22:26 PM
Girls are often nice "to your face", or to the group, but behind someone's back? Oh yeah, they can be awful if they don't like you.
Men are the opposite in general. Rough up front, won't bother being two-faced like females can be.
Sadly you're absolutely right on this. All smiles, how are you, hows the kids..... oh she's such a bitch blah blah blah when they aren't around. Sometimes its shamefully obvious how 2 faced SOME women can be. Not all are like that, though... just as not all men are crude, rude, fart, and burp beer bubbles.
Man, you guys must really only interact with awful women the way the conversations go around here. I lt was never awkward to me because even pre transition in my adolescence, I played sports and had tons of male friends. Obviously it is a different dynamic now that I am a man myself. And OP you'll find that it depends on the type of guys you bother with. My male circle is made up of educated, thoughtful, chill dudes. You don't get all of that annoying bravado. No one is trying too hard to prove their manhood or anything. We talk about attractive women ALL OF THE TIME, sex and all, but it's never in a caveman way. We get graphic too. I don't get down with guys that are walking stereotypes.
And to the post that was made about some women being nice to your face but petty behind your back, well i see a reverse parallel to the example of men that say "throwaway" comments but would help a woman if she needed it. Reverse parallel isn't even an actual thing but it's all I got right now.
Quote from: CMD042414 on January 31, 2018, 07:33:22 PM
And to the post that was made about some women being nice to your face but petty behind your back, well i see a reverse parallel to the example of men that say "throwaway" comments but would help a woman if she needed it. Reverse parallel isn't even an actual thing but it's all I got right now.
The point was temper the idea women are sugar and spice with their approach to socializing compared to men because they're not.
Yes they are both as bad as one another, just in different ways. I still prefer knowing where I stand with someone over not.
QuoteMan, you guys must really only interact with awful women the way the conversations go around here.
No, actually. Have you noticed how much negative generalizing of men goes on on these forums? Anything to say about that?
Quote from: Kylo on January 31, 2018, 07:55:51 PM
The point was temper the idea women are sugar and spice with their approach to socializing compared to men because they're not.
Yes they are both as bad as one another, just in different ways. I still prefer knowing where I stand with someone over not.
No, actually. Have you noticed how much negative generalizing of men goes on on these forums? Anything to say about that?
I think guy bashing in general is 'popular' in our cultures & societies now... which is actually fairly sad. It happens to women too, though it seems to goes one of two ways (mostly from what I've seen over the years)... if you're cute, attractive, and dress nice you're 'slutty' and too sexual. If you're not, then you're considered a slob, and don't take care of yourself. Doesn't seem to be a fun middle ground anywhere.
Honestly I think people are just judgmental in general.. people, not males, not females (or others..). We see others as competition, or are jealous, or whatever petty reasons one conjures in their mind, and so we decide we don't like this or that person. Love is so much more beautiful emotion than the incredible negativity that is so pronounced these days.
Try to be in the circles that promote this.. promote acceptance, encouragement, uplifting. If you can avoid those that do not, I think you'll have a chance to live healthier in the end. Just my thoughts, for what its worth :)
Quote from: Kylo on January 31, 2018, 07:55:51 PM
No, actually. Have you noticed how much negative generalizing of men goes on on these forums? Anything to say about that?
As I've said on a number of posts in different places, society shifts like a pendulum. We are now in a period of a tidal pushback by women against eons old, outdated, misogynistic cultural norms and behavior by men. When society attempts to correct itself the pendulum almost always swings hard from one direction to the other until it balances itself. You can see this with all manner of issues such as race, gender identity, sexual orientation, immigration, and on and on and on. Now you're probably going to retort with examples of women hating men aka misandry and of course, I'll say it louder, OF COURSE there are women that go too damn far. But by and large it is a shift that will pave the way to meaningful change led by women who aren't trying to tear apart good ole manly manness. I for one think there's nothing wrong with men feeling a bit uneasy about it all. That is what creates change. And as I type this I am realizing that as a human i bring all of my life experiences to the table which shape my views. So as a black guy and a trans guy I see similar situations in the dynamic between races and matters of gender identity. You put a group of people in less than equal circumstances for so long they bite back one day. And it always ends up being true to form that the majority and/or more powerful group gets butt hurt about it. Just my two cents.
Ultimately what you mean is: "men had it good for centuries now it's women's turn and I'm loving it". I already noticed there's a whole lot you dislike about men and masculinity from your posts here and you appear to think men ought to be more like women.
Well I can give some good reasons why the world is not better off without masculinity, or would be much worse if there was only feminine qualities in it, and I could also go into detail about how men didn't "have it all good" in the historical past any more than women, but neither of us probably have time for that.
If I see stupid behavior on either side I'm going to point it out, not shrug my shoulders just because the team I like best might be currently winning. If there's one thing I noticed about people championing women specifically at the moment it's that they are silent whenever women's faults are raised (including the widespread total lack of empathy for anything men have to go through or deal with), and always, always default to the position it's "it's deserved because men kept them down 'in the past'". This is the so-called enlightened present. There is no excuse. The idea of the past is being used as an excuse now to continue to demonize men and it is harmful.
You won't see me make excuses anywhere for men's behavior if that behavior is truly harmful and there is no good reason for it. I'll continue to criticize men and women where it is due. But you'll come up short when you realize men and women are too different to be squeezed into each others' roles by force, and that 'true' equality would mean exactly that. Women will suffer being forced to do what men do and vice versa, meaning this whole equality push can only go so far. So we'll see just how far this pendulum thinks it can swing before reality hits, won't we. Not before a several generations of men and women have been demoralized and harmed in the process probably.
That's why I'm here, tempering it. Unlike some I'm aware neither side is going anywhere and they are stuck with each other, it makes more sense to attempt to draw things toward a rational center than jump on a bandwagon that doesn't appear to know where it's even going.
I've kind of gotten used to it by now, although I'm always more or less socially awkward. But despite that, I definitely like it when I can be own gross self and talk about hot guys/girls that way. I think it's liberating. Cause I'm pretty gross too, I can assure... everyone. And I also like it when guys randomly challenge each other in the group to do weird/nasty/embarrassing things just for the sake of competition and feeling good about accomplishing something, even if it's not actually an important thing.
I've noticed it's a lot of letting go of your worries and just be yourself kind of mentality over it and that can definitely be a blessing. Cause, not to be like that, but I'm never gonna feel comfortable around people I'm too scared to fart in the same room as, for example.
But yes, it did take some getting used to for me as well, but once I did I've appreciated it so much. Although maybe now I'm just longing to have that again, cause I'm so isolated where I live now and I rarely hang out with people at all, let alone entire groups of people. So maybe I'm looking at my memories through a more shimmery light than it actually was like when I lived closer to my friends.
Kylo: What you say rings very true to me. Both men and women each have their strengths and weaknesses, treat each other good and bad. Bringing up history as a reason is a terrible excuse to push down either gender. We live here and now and we aren't our ancestors.
I also think there's quite some misunderstanding going on in today's society about what's considered masculine/feminine traits and what's good/bad traits. The idea that masculinity only has bad traits or mostly bad traits, while femininity is somehow completely harmless is very incorrect but also very subjective.
I don't think that "choosing a side" on which gender to act protective towards and which to demonise is a good idea regardless of how history has or hasn't been (I too know it wasn't exactly paradise for men in the past just because they weren't women, but anyhow) cause it will just lead to more inequality in one way or the other. I try my best to not pay attention to anyone's gender except my own, and just treat people like people instead. I judge them for their actions, not however they were born. But somehow that makes me come off as sexist towards women and favorising of men. That's strange to me.
I hope the pendulum won't swing as far as for reality to hit back, but it probably will, in some way or another.