Hi all It's been awhile since I posted but I'm really looking for opinions on my job situation. ok so after a lot of blood sweat and tears last August I finally got my letter for HRT after a year and a half of living full time. Now at work I started running into an awkward situation.
I work for a large company in a STEM discipline and I started to notice that the workers on the factory floor(the ones that don't know me). were looking at me as a girl. I mean maybe its paranoia but one guy bumped a forklift into a barrier as he was starring at me in the lunch room so I'm pretty sure its a real thing and not me being stupid.
My boobs were starting to become wildly noticeable under my best hoodie. This is mostly due to the fact I refuse to go bra-less or in a sports bra because I just can't get as much work done in them (They hurt after awhile either from bouncing around or being so constricted).
So one day when I thought that my actual co-workers were starting to notice I emailed management about my name change and that I was in the process of transitioning. They all seemed very supportive and nice about it. My direct boss, has pretty seems the most cool and has been helping out moving the process the most. The issue is that the other management seems to be dragging their feet. I have been thinking since I gave them notice to my change about 3 weeks ago that they've had ample time to get their ducks in a row to do their process(they apparently have some sort of team for this). So it got me to wondering since I'm sorta struggling with the whole duality at work and outside of it.
My questions is simple. Is it absurd to put a deadline on this transitional period for them as the date of my name change and say hey, this is official, so I'm done hiding under hoodies. The other question, were you satisfied with a job after you transitioned at that job? Due to pure luck of being born in a state where they will seal my dead name birth certificate and give me a new one with my correct name and gender it would be pretty easy to just switch jobs after the name change.
I can only answer the first one, as an HR professional and somebody who is also transitioning at work, I think the best way is for both parties to decide on a date that suits them both. So if you both decide on March 30th, for example, everything should be finished by then including a communication to all staff members about the change and you would be expected to go working full time in female attire from that date on.
I came out at work on Christmas day 2014. That's 3 years ago. I have completed my legal documentation and ID's in the beginning of 2016, and since then "legally" female at work with new ID.
I haven't had much "luck" with co-workers accepting me fully as female. Some yes, but most are only obeying the rules in fear for retaliation from management. At least that's how I feel it is.
After my return at work 2 months ago from having my GRS, it seems that more co-workers accept my female "status" since they probably only understand a woman has a "V" and a man has a "P".
I noticed more co-workers are now trying to use and correcting the gender pronoun "she".
I have given up on the idea of ever being accepted fully female at work. After all 3 years is long enough right. One co-worker is still using old name and pronounce, he will not change.
I do have to say I am the only female (CIS or trans) at my work location. I work as a carman at the railroad, which is a macho masculine job apparently, and these man here think woman are not supposed to work at the railroad.
Now all official correspondence and communication is handled in proper gender, it's just the local co-workers that seem to be difficult.
So Charlie are you just saying not to just have a bit of faith? I get that, I do I'm just concerned they'll drag their feet on the matter because we set one date that didn't happen and now the second date (when I get my name/gender marker fixed) is approaching quickly without much if any progress or a plans.
I'm really uncomfortable because I am already getting properly gendered by people outside my department and I suspect that the only other women I work with knows.
I think I'll stick with the second date and if nothing changes by then, I'll just start looking for another job outside the company. The thing is I'm very underemployed and took the job just for experience in the field. I am a Mechanical Engineer and I'm working as a Engineering Tech at the moment.
Which brings me to epvan's experience. I also work in a predominately male field and what she is going through is my fear of what I'll end up feeling. While it might not be anyone's fault because I can see myself view it as pandering, I really do think it may be wise to seek a job outside of my current place when I bump up.
Also ep, I'm really sorry to hear that and you deserve better. ugh honestly by three years it should be old hat. I have to refrain a bit from what I want to say so I'll just let you know I wanna give you a hug instead<3
My on the job transition wasn't the greatest experience, so I left 6 months later; that was 11 years ago though, so it may be easier transitioning on the job now since more people are aware of trans issues and perhaps a little more understanding (depending on where you live though and what kind of work you do). The Good news is that I didn't have a hard time finding a job; I sent out 3 resumes, and got a job offer during my first interview.
I would ask someone in HR where things are.
They should have taken care of it by now, but while it's an A1 top priority for you, they have other things to do also and they may set it aside for later and forgotten about it.
Maybe accidentally on purpose, but give them benefit if doubt if you don't have proof of that.
A respectful nudge might be all they need to get it done. A good way to nudge them would be to suggest that it would be logical for things to coincide with your legal name change.
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Some good advice here. Thanks for sharing Jess - for those like me who are only at the beginning of coming out at work, reading about others' experiences really helps.
Quote from: esphoria on February 13, 2018, 09:14:26 AM
So Charlie are you just saying not to just have a bit of faith? I get that, I do I'm just concerned they'll drag their feet on the matter because we set one date that didn't happen and now the second date (when I get my name/gender marker fixed) is approaching quickly without much if any progress or a plans.
I'm not sure I understood this question. What do you mean by faith?
Kitchen yeah It very well could be easier now, I really have a feeling that this group of individuals mean well but also have really strong bias and tend to lean conservative, which is hardly conclusive. I'm really glad to hear you were able to find another position quickly too gives me hope that there are more fish in the sea. I guess at very worst I have a reference that won't out me to my new employer.
Tonya I have been bugging them, but I've gotten minimal response from them. I don't think its spiteful on the HR peoples fault, they've done what they can but it's in corporate's hands.
I plan on sticking to my deadline too... not only for my sanity but because I am required to operate heavy machinery that needs licencing so if osha shows up and I have a different name from my badge it could cause issues.
Amy I'm glad it helps out, granted this one of the two final steps I need to take(srs being the last steps i plan on taking due to insurance restrictions :) )
I think what I'm coming to see(thanks to what I'm going through and the wonderful people here) is that companies are starting to be inclusive of trans people but its still probably best to find another job shortly after transitioning professionally... at least in my case.
Charlie I guess I was just saying that just because I was outta the loop doesn't mean they won't hold up their end. Unfortunately I just got out of a meeting with the team and it seems that my waiting period is about six months and the current deadline was not valid since hr at my site was not right :(. It's not sitting well with me at the moment I'm not sure where to go from here. I mean at the date they're planning I will be just about be getting SRS. I don't understand how they expect me to hide that long. It's drastically effect my work now and matters are just going to get worse the longer it goes on. sorry just a bit emotional over this... literally just happened
I think you should try to have a doctor write a letter if you can.
Is HR taking their time to change your name on their end and announce it? You may have to just correct and announce it to people instead. Especially if you're already full time.
I really think everyone should just go full time when they feel ready. HR should not be the ones making this decision of "when" in my opinion.
I don't think coworkers really care much for the most part.
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My work place is a little different I have to use my legal name on paper till it is change witch is soon because of legal requirements but people do call me Natalie or Nat. I chose when and what I will wear and helped make the policy for the next person in my work place so it is possible with out problems I worked with my boss because I work in a relatively small place 100 staff so we agreed on timelines that I can change not management
So my last post was a bit all over the place because I was pretty upset but here's what happened. When I got into work I got a skype call with some transition team from the corporate level of my company, which included 5 different people in the call but only three of them spoke.
It all started off all fine and well but as it went on it became wildly apparent that the agreed deadline from HR of Feb 27th wasn't going to happen which will be the second deadline they decided to postpone. They said they had to get training courses in place and The process on the speedy route would take 6 months. I found this rather disturbing since my trial period of one year comes up in five months. I know its not an ideal time to transition but biology had other plans and I can't very well hide my 32-C chest under a t-shirt or polo let alone my face(a little prideful of that but hey I could use a little pride at this moment).
So naturally I was concerned because I already really uncomfortable hiding this away, if I am even hiding it anymore. I mean I have altered alot of the normal stuff like ear piercings, hair eyebrows...etc This is where i felt the meeting got a bit... well the only word that is coming to mind now is hostile.
They kept going on about protecting the company and eluding that me telling me that sharing (either via attire or verbal) with my co-workers that I am transitioning, could start rumors that could damage the companies reputation. They then proceeded to tell me that I had to keep this confidential, as in a trade secret or security clearance way. At this point I started asking myself why who I am is such a dirty secret it has to be kept in confidence. Now if I slip up and say leave a bit of eyeliner on, slip into my normal voice or even my hair cut and earrings being seen in the wrong way could lead to me getting fired.
After they clear stated with specific verbiage as if to establish legal grounds on how this could damage the company They then asked me if I had any questions. I had one question and I did ask just one, which was "what am I suppose to do if someone asks about this?" Their response was walk to away. Not only would this damage the relationships I have with these people I'm just not that person.
After this I'm a bit in shock and I feel they just backed me in a corner. I honestly tried my best to follow their rules but I just can't do this, I mean I can't be myself and now I'm asked to behave in a way that I can't. I sorta freaked out and left work early because I had no idea if i was already violating a rule or two. I couldn't go back tonight despite my best efforts. When I told my mom and girlfriend they were just a furious as I was. I really wish I was making this crap up, I never really expected this...
I realized that this really isn't a fight I can win so I did the only rational thing, the only real choice I had, I started to apply for new jobs and hopefully find someone to be a decent reference that is willing to use my new legal name.
My mom and girlfriend stayed up late tonight with me just to get my resume updated and to make sure I was okay, and I already got it uploaded and set up for adjustments based on jobs I'm looking for. I'm so thankful and lucky to have them.
I'll keep you guys posted how this goes, although I won't ever mention the name of the company I work for, not out of loyalty but to prevent backlash and sorry that this thread evolved I was really seeking advice but its sorta turned into something else completely.
Sorry for that Esphoria. And it sucks how your company is handling this, but as long as they're not breaking any laws, it's sadly their call. Job hunting is exactly what you need to do now.
If they already have a "transition process" in place, how could it take six months to set up a course? If the "process" exists, there is already a Powerpoint on a memory stick, and someone who knows how to present it. So setting up the course is a matter of telling someone to hop on a plane to your city and deliver it. Two weeks tops.
Which tells me that they were feeding you a line of B.S. Their corporate policy is to harass trans employees until they quit, so they don't actually have to deal with them. The reputation they are trying to protect is of being a trans-free zone.
Sadly, it looks like your only reasonable course of action is what you are doing: applying for new jobs. At some point, if it is ever safe for you to do so, the company should be outed so others know.
Stay strong. You deserve better than this.
That is truly awful way for them to handle it. No way it should take them that long.
How are they going to keep it secret after your name change is legal? They'll need to update payroll etc with your legal name.
The damage to the company line sounds like a load of crap, especially with the timing they are mentioning. It doesn't seem to be a coincidence that they said 6 months when your review period is over in 5. I find it hard to believe that they have a process in place (the transition team) without also having the training readily available.
Is there an LGBT organization near you that you could ask about legal help? Guessing that you are in a state that doesn't protect your job though, so that may not help anyway.
I'm probably not helping you any but it made me mad to read how your being treated.
Good luck with your job search, it does seem to be your best option. You said you were underemployed anyway so hopefully it all works out better for you.
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Quote from: KathyLauren on February 14, 2018, 07:51:18 AM
Which tells me that they were feeding you a line of B.S. Their corporate policy is to harass trans employees until they quit, so they don't actually have to deal with them. The reputation they are trying to protect is of being a trans-free zone.
Yeah that's what I thought as well but wasn't sure if I should say it. It does look like they're trying to make you decide to quit. But if that's the case then you deserve better, so as I said before you're right in starting job hunting.
Quote from: Charlie Nicki on February 14, 2018, 07:56:12 AM
Yeah that's what I thought as well but wasn't sure if I should say it. It does look like they're trying to make you decide to quit. But if that's the case then you deserve better, so as I said before you're right in starting job hunting.
You don't want to work at a place like that anyways.
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Euphoria, I just read this and am in shock. This is exactly the kind of company backlash I fear most. I think you are doing the right thing getting the resume together. I'd love for when everything is settled to share the company's name and division. I'd like to start a letter campaign and letter to the editor of the local paper and expose them.
On the compliment side, 32 C, Wow, I don't get intensely jealous usually, just always a continuous state of mildly jealous, but wow!
Bari Jo
I am sorry to hear this girl. Protection or not, employers can still fire us for other reasons they will come up with, aka no team work or safety related. I am in my 16th year at my job always be A+. a few months after coming out there where issues with my writing and spoken language, which I was told by my then mgr. is a safety issue. I told him I knew where he was going to, I had zero issues the previous 12 years, and now all of a sudden I am unsafe after coming out?
Anyway hun, I think job hunting might be a thought for now, not sure about your future with your current employer, sounds like they trying to make you decide to leave on your own. I have to much invested in my job to just go.
Thinking of you dear, hang in there.
Hugs, Erin
Quote from: esphoria on February 12, 2018, 01:24:31 PM
Hi all It's been awhile since I posted but I'm really looking for opinions on my job situation. ok so after a lot of blood sweat and tears last August I finally got my letter for HRT after a year and a half of living full time. Now at work I started running into an awkward situation.
I work for a large company in a STEM discipline and I started to notice that the workers on the factory floor(the ones that don't know me). were looking at me as a girl. I mean maybe its paranoia but one guy bumped a forklift into a barrier as he was starring at me in the lunch room so I'm pretty sure its a real thing and not me being stupid.
My boobs were starting to become wildly noticeable under my best hoodie. This is mostly due to the fact I refuse to go bra-less or in a sports bra because I just can't get as much work done in them (They hurt after awhile either from bouncing around or being so constricted).
So one day when I thought that my actual co-workers were starting to notice I emailed management about my name change and that I was in the process of transitioning. They all seemed very supportive and nice about it. My direct boss, has pretty seems the most cool and has been helping out moving the process the most. The issue is that the other management seems to be dragging their feet. I have been thinking since I gave them notice to my change about 3 weeks ago that they've had ample time to get their ducks in a row to do their process(they apparently have some sort of team for this). So it got me to wondering since I'm sorta struggling with the whole duality at work and outside of it.
My questions is simple. Is it absurd to put a deadline on this transitional period for them as the date of my name change and say hey, this is official, so I'm done hiding under hoodies. The other question, were you satisfied with a job after you transitioned at that job? Due to pure luck of being born in a state where they will seal my dead name birth certificate and give me a new one with my correct name and gender it would be pretty easy to just switch jobs after the name change.
When it comes to companies regarding stuff like this, things move slowly. They have to look at existing protocols and policies. Then they have to have lawyers look at them. Then Human Resources. They also look at other companies policies as well. It is a slow process and the bigger the company sometimes the longer it takes. Especially if you are their first transgender employee. I would have been surprised if they had anything really ready in three weeks.
I'm transitioning at work as well. I don't know of any other transgenders but HR said ok when I told them. At first they asked if anyone was harassing me and I told them no. Then they asked if I was changing my name or other things. I told them not yet. So I feel HR is on my side. My bosses know and actually knew before I announced it publicly. I just made a Facebook statement and left it at that.
As for boobs, working without at least a sports bra is uncomfortable for me. I do a lot of lifting, walking, jogging, occasionally running so a bra is required. Have you been fitted for a bra? That might make a world of difference. If you decide to wear a shirt without a bra then you will definitely have a few forklift drivers run into walls.
Good luck.
:) Thanks everyone for the support and Kathy you and I are pretty much on the same page. I believe this whole thing is in place to satisfy the equal opportunity employer thing and that's about it.
Tonya, If I were responsible for just myself I would fight this, but at this point I have other people besides myself to think about and I still hope I can get a reference from this job, because then I leave as they want and I can move forward elsewhere.
Bari Jo I really think that this is the exception to the rule rather then what people should expect in this situation. I not saying you shouldn't be prepared but I'm a plan for the worst and hope for the best sorta person. Thank you for the compliment, and I've always thought you had an adorable face, you have a structure that I would imagine looks good in almost any look you try to pull off (including the one you do:P) :)
Yeah Erin, I really do think I have a shot at stealth at my next job and I'm just going to go for it. I really do get it, its hard to leave a job where you have so much history and security, I just wish people could sometimes see the world for what it is and not just try to shove everything neatly into boxes.
<3 you all Jess