Hear me out here. I like to search for before and after pics. I have seen some very beautiful women who became men. The first thing that pops into my head is, omg, how can you give that up, you are so perfect, omg. Do you think that sometimes about guys who transition into females? Do you get like, geez, you're John Wayne, what the heck is wrong with you?
I'm perplexed when I think about it emotionally. Logically I can understand it since I feel the same the other way around. Only thing is, I'm a bit perplexed why I want to be a women. Logically it makes no sense at all. Plenty of disadvantages in doing that. Its all very confusing.
That's a really interesting question. I never considered the idea that a MTF's male face pre HRT could be more attractive than a MTF's post HRT female face. Huh. I kinda wanna go through my files and files of before and after transitions but I can't because it feels kinda mean even though nobody would know but you and me and you'd never tell would you. Hmm, you could go on Pinterest and take a look. There are some boards with near 1k transition timeline pics.
Edit: Here's one with almost 300 pins: https://pin.it/bsg26p72fz4ugi
Lots of amazing transformations there, thanks. If I was a girl, and wanted to be a guy, I might think MTF's are giving up the best thing in the world. Maybe FTM's think this way, maybe it's just me. :P
I totally get what you're saying, but I think that being transgender is a spiritual thing.
i.e.my soul is female and that's why I want to be/am a woman.
I think it's the same for guys.
The surface appearance is just that. Superficial.
Hinduism even has a word for it. Maya. The veil of illusion.
It's really weird seeing before and after's. Usually it looks like 2 different people. My fear and hesitance is for myself when I think "can I really change that much?". It's scary because it's confusing/unknown. Hormones are crazy if you ask me. And the difference between estrogen and testosterone is striking...
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Quote from: Allison S on February 16, 2018, 12:40:07 PM
It's really weird seeing before and after's. Usually it looks like 2 different people. My fear and hesitance is for myself when I think "can I really change that much?". It's scary because it's confusing/unknown. Hormones are crazy if you ask me. And the difference between estrogen and testosterone is striking...
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@ Allison S: Obviously Hormone Replacement can make dramatic and sometimes drastic body and mind changes.
Regarding the "before and after pictures"... I think that the reason we see such radical changes in the MTF category is that the
before male photo is usually of a guy wearing sloppy clothes, with poor posture, hair uncombed and a 5 O'clock shadow... and then the
after picture is the female version, with feminized face and body, nice makeup, hair fixed up and nice looking and sometimes revealing outfits. What's not to like??? LOL
What are they giving up, exactly? They're the same person. Just presenting and living differently.
You might wonder why I 'gave up' looking like this:
https://i.imgur.com/L4Lxkg5.jpg (https://i.imgur.com/L4Lxkg5.jpg)
That's about the only photo I've ever taken (2008) where I took it wondering if I would make a good looking female. I'm not actually wearing any make up except an eye liner which I used once to see the effect and it hasn't been doctored, it was just taken with the sun shining behind. Some say that's a good looking woman. I wouldn't say I was bad looking there, but I'm not sorry to see it go. Never was a choice, it's not about looks. That comes into it a bit I guess because nobody wants to look bad, but behind those eyes there was no happiness, believe me. I couldn't do anything with my looks, it's not in my nature to use any of it. It was wasted, and I had no idea what I was doing with it anyway. I mean look what I'm wearing there, lol.
If the heart and soul isn't there, it's all wasted. I could have carried on living like that and getting no pleasure out of any of it and at the end of the day what I looked like and what I could get out of looking like that wasn't important to me, it didn't give me anything I could live without.
Not perplexed at others at all. Those MTFs aren't me, so why would they think like me and have the same motivations? Everyone has their own carrots and sticks when it comes to motivation. I don't believe in perfection, nobody's perfect. It just sucks that the translation from male to female or female to male isn't always smooth unless you have an androgynous form to begin with. Looking the way I do, I make a rather "cute" man, which isn't really ideal. People think I wear mascara due to having naturally long and dark eye lashes, and I'm not going to yank them out just so people will stop. We all just have to work with what we've got.
If some guy I knew who had looks other guys would kill for, as well as the ladies, transitions because she is a woman, I just try not to think about it. What that person would be dealing with is unknown to me. Some people would say "what a waste" but that sounds so possessive to me. Like, you remember when Angelina Jolie has chest surgery to prevent cancer, and so many people online were so worked up about it. As if her image was more important than her wellbeing or survival or something? I have to disengage from that kinda thinking.
Quote from: Kylo on February 16, 2018, 01:31:43 PM
What are they giving up, exactly? They're the same person. They are just presenting and living differently.
@ Kylo: If you don't think that they are giving up anything, I AGREE WITH YOU. It is the very same person inside that feels like the other gender and they want to be who they are in real life instead of just in their thoughts and dreams....
I don't know what is motivating everyone else but speaking to that little voice inside that tells me not to protest because this was all predetermined by measures beyond my control. I know the self hate I've had all these years is turning into self love. It's not a fad. It's not a choice, It's not a fantasy, It's living real life the way I was supposed to be. I want the world to evolve to the point we do not have to explain. We do not have to pass. We can just be.
I don't know if I would call it feeling perplexed, I don't think that's a good description. I do often feel the universe has a cruel sense of irony though.
Body switching pops in my head a lot. I keep thinking that it's a damn shame that the strongest prison known to mankind (see what I did there) is one's own body. I find it frustrating and sad that we can't just have brain transplants with someone on the other side of this equation. It's the ultimate "the grass is greener on the other side of the fence " and no matter how much we put into our lawn, the best we can hope for is some very convincing AstroTurf.
I would also add that gender identity and gender privilege are two very different things. If you're not comfortable going through the world and you're life in your birth gender role how can you be expected to take full advantage of what that social role's benefits are, when all of those benefits no matter how great can't hold a flame to the fire of misery you feel being trapped in a body and social role that is in the most visceral and fundamental ways- Just Wrong?
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I'm more perplexed that anyone would want testosterone in their system.
Being MTF I think it's insane because testosterone made me feel so freaking awful, I was glad to nip puberty at the head before it got any worse, I can't think of anyone wanting to have an amped up sex drive and an inability to cry and muted affect... but then again, that's probably all because I'm MTF and of course T is gonna feel wretched to me. A trans man I know said he felt the same way with estrogen in his system.
So I just thank my lucky stars I'm not on T lol
No.
It's the same thing, just going the other way. I look at pre-everything trans women sometimes and go DAMN, wish I could trade you lol. Though not really; my body is pretty masculinized as it is from the PCOS.
Perplexed, though? No. There are a lot of things in this world I haven't felt for myself that I sympathize with, and a lot of things I have neither felt nor understand that I accept as valid. I don't need to be somebody to know that their emotions are real.
Quote from: nightingale95 on February 16, 2018, 09:11:44 PM
I can't think of anyone wanting to have an amped up sex drive and an inability to cry and muted affect... but then again, that's probably all because I'm MTF and of course T is gonna feel wretched to me. A trans man I know said he felt the same way with estrogen in his system.
Yep, an inability to control crying is bad from our point of view often enough. It seems like the most pointless thing in the world if it's not cathartic. I suppose that would make sense to anyone with a male brain; when men cry people often just look uncomfortable. When women cry, people usually ask what's wrong and want to help them. For men crying doesn't have much in the way of positives, just makes people think you're weak and embarrassing. Which is how I tend to view it when I do it, which since T is... well, never. Which is great.
Other people crying doesn't bother me, they can do it all day long if they want. I don't miss it at all. As long as I'm in control of myself, other people's emotionality doesn't disturb me.
Estrogen definitely isn't good for people like me. It makes you more highly strung, stressed and upsettable. Everything about having male tendencies or a male mind is better served by not being easily stressed. Even down to how women expect us to act, as well as men, which is not to be unstable. Guys like me aren't out of touch with our feelings or emotions at all, we just tend to like the ability to control when/if it shows and how much it affects us. On estrogen you get very little control.
This makes it all sound like it's some conscious choice but I'm sure it isn't. I never decided it wasn't cool to cry and nobody ever jumped down my neck about doing it, obviously. But it's in there somewhere that not being in control of all that stuff is instinctively bad.
T is great in my system. I'm not as jumpy and narky as I used to be, and definitely less angry. Not oversexed either. Which goes to show, it's not that T itself makes someone aggressive or uncontrollable, it's how the hormone interacts with the kind of brain you have. Some of it could be because my experience before on estrogen was horrible and T is comparatively sedative. But just on its own without any of that it takes the edge off an uncomfortable level of stress.
I've seen before pictures of trans guys before transition who were beautiful and I've thought it was a shame but I've never had a problem understanding why they transitioned. Though it's the opposite of how I feel, I know that a transguy is feeling just as much pain and hatred for his female body as I do over my male characteristics. The question of why would anyone give up being a beautiful woman or hot guy is pretty meaningless. It doesn't matter how good someone might look, if they are miserable then what does it matter how they look. My mom used to tell me I was insane to want to give up being a guy. In my case it wasn't an issue of giving up being a hot guy, I most certainly wasn't a hot guy. I was a small, scrawny very sad imitation of a boy. What she was talking about was giving up male privilege. She's was always extremely resentful of male privilege. She didn't understand that I never had any male privilege , I was pretty much a pariah among guys my own age, but even if I had had male privilege , what good is it if you're miserable.
I had someone horrified for me that I would lose my breasts when she found out I was transitioning. In fairness, many women would pay lots of money to have boobs like mine. But, it's about so much more than appearance. In just a week on T, I can already tell it's the right hormone for my body. There's no doubt it's the right decision for me.
The ability to love yourself and live as the person you truly are is worth so much more than 'losing' a beautiful face or what society deems to be perfectly proportioned body parts. To value appearance over self worth is really shallow. The applies to be MTF and FTM (since I can't tell which you're actually talking about between your title and your post).
Quote from: Morgan78 on February 17, 2018, 10:01:48 AM
I had someone horrified for me that I would lose my breasts when she found out I was transitioning. In fairness, many women would pay lots of money to have boobs like mine. But, it's about so much more than appearance. In just a week on T, I can already tell it's the right hormone for my body. There's no doubt it's the right decision for me.
The ability to love yourself and live as the person you truly are is worth so much more than 'losing' a beautiful face or what society deems to be perfectly proportioned body parts. To value appearance over self worth is really shallow. The applies to be MTF and FTM (since I can't tell which you're actually talking about between your title and your post).
I think that's common among Cis people. My brother is totally accepting of me and he knows I need surgery but the thought of it used to freak him out. I think most guys would rather lose a limb than lose their dick. I think it's the same thing with women and breasts.
Quote from: nightingale95 on February 16, 2018, 09:11:44 PM
I'm more perplexed that anyone would want testosterone in their system.
Being MTF I think it's insane because testosterone made me feel so freaking awful, I was glad to nip puberty at the head before it got any worse, I can't think of anyone wanting to have an amped up sex drive and an inability to cry and muted affect... but then again, that's probably all because I'm MTF and of course T is gonna feel wretched to me. A trans man I know said he felt the same way with estrogen in his system.
So I just thank my lucky stars I'm not on T lol
Somehow I missed this comment my first time through this thread. Hormones are crazy little buggers. I've cried more and just felt more emotional overall since starting T than ever before. My miscarriage 4 years ago was the last time I cried before the night I decided to transition just over a month ago. I've felt truly empathetic towards people for the first time ever this past week, rather than forcing out some empathetic statement and hoping I sound sincere like I learned to do when I worked in a call center. It's like I'm a whole new person; I'm not angry and stressed at every little thing anymore. They say you know when you're on the right hormone for your body, and I wholeheartedly believe it. I'll take the insatiable sex drive if that's what it takes for me to feel like a real person. :)
Quote from: Julia1996 on February 17, 2018, 10:15:54 AM
I think that's common among Cis people. My brother is totally accepting of me and he knows I need surgery but the thought of it used to freak him out. I think most guys would rather lose a limb than lose their dick. I think it's the same thing with women and breasts.
I completely understand this. I'm just rather shocked to see such a question on a trans* support board from a presumably trans* person.
I guess it's just me then! I'm shallow. I admit it. :P
Edit: I'm a trans newby so I've just begun exploring this. Maybe I shouldn't have said perplexed. Sometimes I'm just taken aback by someone giving up everything I hope and dream for. It was a mental thought I noticed, not that I thought they were crazy or something. I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly.
It's probably why I have Cocinelle as my avatar. She's the goal in my mind. I can never reach her level but she's a hero to me.
Edit again: I think I'm still stuck in the mode of being jealous of women I see. I haven't made the mental transition of self-acceptance and wanting to be "me" as a woman.
Perplexed, yes. But with an understanding.
Deep down, our feelings are the same. We experience unhappiness with our bodies and perceived gender. We try to fix it. Those emotions are the same for both FtM and MtF.
But the thing that baffles me the most is....why on earth would you want a vagina? To me, having the thing was disgusting, and I wanted it gone. Having a penis was just so much more efficient. Something sticking out of your body instead of going inside. Easy to clean and all that. Now that I had surgery, I'm so happy everything is right down there, and I can't comprehend anyone wanting to have, or create, an extra hole down there.
But that's just my manbrain talking. I'm sure our dear MtF's can't imagine actually wanting a penis.
I was perplexed the first time I met a trans guy (way before I accepted myself as trans woman). Why on earth would a biological woman want to be a man? Being a man sucks, and you'd have to give up the great things that make you a woman, like breasts, hips and a functional female reproductive system!
That was only my first impression. I know now that he probably felt exactly as I did but in the opposite direction. He hated his vagina as much as I hate my penis.
Quote from: amandam on February 17, 2018, 11:03:40 AM
I guess it's just me then! I'm shallow. I admit it. :P
Edit: I'm a trans newby so I've just begun exploring this. Maybe I shouldn't have said perplexed. Sometimes I'm just taken aback by someone giving up everything I hope and dream for. It was a mental thought I noticed, not that I thought they were crazy or something. I don't know if I'm explaining this correctly.
It's probably why I have Cocinelle as my avatar. She's the goal in my mind. I can never reach her level but she's a hero to me.
Edit again: I think I'm still stuck in the mode of being jealous of women I see. I haven't made the mental transition of self-acceptance and wanting to be "me" as a woman.
That's fair, and makes your original post make more sense. I'm sorry, I was a bit harsh yesterday. I completely understand the jealousy aspect; I think it's normal for us to be jealous in some way of those who were born the sex we identify as, especially those of us who experience genital dysphoria. I'd happily trade body parts with you if it were possible. ;)
Quote from: Morgan78 on February 18, 2018, 05:11:10 PM
That's fair, and makes your original post make more sense. I'm sorry, I was a bit harsh yesterday. I completely understand the jealousy aspect; I think it's normal for us to be jealous in some way of those who were born the sex we identify as, especially those of us who experience genital dysphoria. I'd happily trade body parts with you if it were possible. ;)
Did you ever look at a man and feel you were robbed at birth? Or felt he was lucky? Was it all men? Or just the "toughest" or "most virile" examples?
If only there was a machine where we could test drive other bodies!
Quote from: Mr.X on February 17, 2018, 01:48:28 PM
But the thing that baffles me the most is....why on earth would you want a vagina? To me, having the thing was disgusting, and I wanted it gone. Having a penis was just so much more efficient. Something sticking out of your body instead of going inside. Easy to clean and all that. Now that I had surgery, I'm so happy everything is right down there, and I can't comprehend anyone wanting to have, or create, an extra hole down there.
But that's just my manbrain talking. I'm sure our dear MtF's can't imagine actually wanting a penis.
Personally I think having a penis is more practical, but I'd still rather have a vagina.
I'm always amazed in these types of threads when trans guys say that adding T into their system makes them more calm. The best way I can describe it, when I had a lot of T in my system I felt like a barely in control berserker most of the time; the rest of the time the berserker was let loose and out of control. Without T and with E I can sense that it's still there but rather than constantly raging to be freed it waits to be called if it's ever needed. It's a huge difference.
If others, whether mtf or ftm feel anything similar to that then I can understand them completely. It's the difference between being out of control in an alien land and sitting comfortably at home next to the fireside.
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It's much the same on E for some of us. Over anxious, over analyzing, over compensating/emotional on E. Not much fun if there is something inside you demanding that you shouldn't be doing any of those things. The frustration is cumulative. Without it I can see how bad I was becoming near the end before I finally got the go on the HRT. Must have been so much fun to be around. Moody, got angry almost instantly at people, would rage at people I knew if they said the wrong thing till they were cowering in the corner or pushed into some sort of real altercation. If someone wanted one too, I'd be more than happy to give them one. I'm glad it's over.
It's not like that isn't still in there somewhere; but it only comes out when needed, instead of the drop of a hat. It doesn't change the underlying personality and capability I guess, but it does change how you handle yourself and others.
I sure don't understand the "roid rage" people talk about. I've been more calm this last year than in my entire life. I don't think hormones are responsible for the rage, it's whatever internal conflicts the person is having already, plus their inability to resolve them.
I'm excited to go on T but also nervous.
As someone with endocrine-based PCOS who's always had elevated androgen levels, my naturally heightened T levels made my teen years pretty miserable. When I was sexually aroused, that was it. Nothing else existed. It felt really good, actually, until the "wave" was over and I was left with the E, which felt like going through withdrawals. I was tired, disoriented, depressed, self-loathing.
T made me feel sharp and capable, even if at the time it was almost all sexual energy. I'll probably have a much better time with it now, being older. When I wound up on birth control (essentially HRT to manage my PCOS), I felt like I'd gone on a low dose of antidepressant. I felt even-keel in a deadened way most of the time, I experienced more chronic, subconscious dissociation. I struggled with my sexuality a LOT and went several years thinking I was asexual and aromantic because of my complete lack of a sex drive, something that made my marriage miserable. I experienced panic attacks and harsh mood swings. Never again. Been doing some reading lately on the potentiality of PCOS as an intersex condition, depending on how it manifests, and I'm guessing that I have a pretty typically masculinized brain; no wonder pumping more female hormones into it was such a disaster.
I think given our dysphoria it's perfectly natural to find it difficult to relate to the opposite side of the spectrum, at least at first, and many people who say otherwise are pretty obviously just trying to stay safe or PC to avoid offending anyone.
After all, the girls who are MTF want the things that we FTM guys despise and vice versa. It's almost a subconscious idea of "how could you want something that's causing me so much grief?" until we stop to think about it. I know I've had the idea before of "who would ever actually want to be a woman? I can't stand it!" until I thought about it and realized that's because I'm not a woman so of course I can't stand it. That's where empathy comes in and you put yourself in the other person's shoes. If a trans girl looked at an old picture of me and felt confused or upset that I had given up that appearance to transition I wouldn't hold it against her. I only would hold it against her if she didn't try to reconcile those initial feelings and understand things from my perspective.
It's pretty obvious that running on the wrong hormone is what causes people issues, not which hormone it is. Also pretty obvious that some of the posters in this thread think their personal situation is the only correct perspective. Willful ignorance is totally inexcusable.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on February 19, 2018, 02:21:17 PM
Also pretty obvious that some of the posters in this thread think their personal situation is the only correct perspective. Willful ignorance is totally inexcusable.
Hugs, Devlyn
Lack of empathy and talking from a place of personal incredulity (https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Argument_from_incredulity) sure is something, isn't it?
But nobody's perfect. I experienced my dysphoria by projecting my self-loathing onto other people, and went many years being a misogynistic prick. "I hate my body," my logic went, "and so should you."
Huh, I hope those last two posts weren't referencing mine but maybe it's just the similar language that's making me think that. The "pretty obvious" part.
I had a feeling people might get a little bent out of shape about the line:
Quote from: Contravene on February 19, 2018, 01:29:21 PM
and many people who say otherwise are pretty obviously just trying to stay safe or PC to avoid offending anyone.
Let me clear things up. I wasn't referencing the forums or posts here (if I was I would have pointed that out) and only skimmed through some of them. I didn't even see your first post, BT04. The key words were also "many people".
That's simply what I've found to be true from real life and other experiences.
Around the time when Caitlyn Jenner came out publicly I worked for a media company and certain employees were always quick with the transphobic jokes but would then turn around and release articles supporting the transgender community and pretend they did too. I've seen comments elsewhere on things like before and after pictures where people comment "she was so pretty, I would give anything to be a woman. Why did she turn into a man and ruin herself?" Then I've heard and witnessed people (sometimes the same ones) who bend over backwards to try to be accepting so they can maintain a certain image who will vehemently deny that they've questioned a person's motives for wanting to transition.
It's natural to be curious, it's natural to not always understand. There's a big difference between being perplexed by something and just being a jerk about it and not even attempting to understand.
I feel that for transgender people dysphoria can make it difficult to understand certain people's motivations for transitioning but at the same time it can also help us to understand them.
So let's not be passive aggressive, condescending or imply that someone's a prick. If you dislike something about a post of mine feel free the address it in the thread or send me a pm about it.
So much for that empathy.
I think that many trans people go through the jealously phase as a part of the journey. I am still there in many ways but not as bad as I used to be. When I see a pretty girl, I think she is SO lucky. When I see a beautiful woman change into a man, I get like OMG! How could you! I know why she does it, but I have an internal reaction to it. I like to self-reflect on things like that while I journey.
Contravene, I can only speak for myself, but my post had nothing to do with yours.
I believe the people who needed the message got it.
Hugs, Devlyn
Before I came out as trans, I was an attractive woman--or so it may have looked on the surface. But I wasn't a woman. It felt like a masquerade, going through the motions. It never felt right to me and when all the pieces finally clicked for me that I was male, I was so relieved. Why do any of us transition? To have our bodies reflect our minds, whether that's ftm, mtf, nonbinary, etc. To me, the way I was felt very wrong and I needed to transition. It's a process but absolutely the right one. I'll look like a beautiful man instead. ;) But most of all, it's how I feel, and I want the reflection to match the mind.
I'm more jealous of cis men than pre-transition trans women, cause cis men tend to be more satisfied with what they've got and also have what I want for myself. But of course I've wished I could trade bodies with trans women. But now that would be a little too late, as I'm quite far into my transition and look more male than female.
I do feel a lot of jealousy though. Half of which I don't know how to handle, and the other half of it I somehow try to use as a goal to reach. Knowing very well I can't become or fully look like a cis man, I know there are a lot of it that I can actually achieve if I'd just try to. I try to stay hopeful while still being a total cynic. And I'm trying to remind myself that many cis men are jealous of each other's looks too.
But I'm also jealous of other ftm's whom I think look better/more male than I do. I know it's not a competition and nor should it be, and intellectually I accept that but my emotions never agreed with my mind. And perhaps sadly I even get jealous of cis women if they have more masculine looking bodies than I do now after having taken T for 5 years, cause I then tend to think that's so very unfair, and what if that had been my starting point prior to transition.
But for mtf's I can only really think they're basically facing the same awful struggles as I do, but in reverse, so it's difficult for me to be jealous then, if that makes sense. Whether I can understand it or not emotionally, I have a lot of compassion. And I can't help but taking the mental/emotional aspect into account. Because ultimately what I want is for my body and mind to be aligned, and not just a specific type of body. For me, that somehow changes my perspective on the matter.
Quote from: Deborah on February 19, 2018, 08:50:19 AM
I'm always amazed in these types of threads when trans guys say that adding T into their system makes them more calm. The best way I can describe it, when I had a lot of T in my system I felt like a barely in control berserker most of the time; the rest of the time the berserker was let loose and out of control.
In my experience: hormones that you have, but contradict your mind (the sex you ARE) will create this kind of conflict. Estrogen has always messed with my moods and made me extremely angry, aggressive and unpredictable even. With testosterone there is no trace of that.
I heard several (trans)guys say something similar, and several (trans)women say that on testosterone their mood was awful. So it´s not the hormone so much as the connection it makes to our brains.
Edited to add: should have read other posts, I´m basically repeating what has been said ::)
For me it's fishy looking drag queens who can make me dysphoric.
Especially Courtney Act.
When she is Shane Jenek and not Courtney, I'm like : " why would you on earth want to be a guy if you look that good as and have such a nice personality as a girl.
I just don't get it when good looking drag queens return to their male persona eventually.
But that's the thing : I am trans and dysphoric and they are male and happy to be males.
Make-up and wigs is enough for them, for me HRT and multiple painful surgeries are needed.
It took me a very long time to realize I was transgender because I had always lived a very sheltered life. I had never heard of FtM and very little about MtF, and I couldn't identify with MtF people because I couldn't even understand why females wanted to be female, much less why a male would want to be femele. Obviously I don't think that way anymore though.
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Echoing a lot of people here, I think perplexed isn't the right word. I too look at a lot of FTM transition timelines, but I don't think that it's a shame that they've transitioned or not understand it. The only thing I think is that often I want to look like the before picture! ;)
I have a friend who is an FTM in the closet and we frequently say to each other how we wish we could just swap bodies! But I never look at them and think "why would you want to transition?" or "oh it's a shame you're transitioning". I just think "good for you and glad we're in this together!" :)
Quote from: amandam on February 16, 2018, 01:18:06 AM
Hear me out here. I like to search for before and after pics. I have seen some very beautiful women who became men. The first thing that pops into my head is, omg, how can you give that up, you are so perfect, omg. Do you think that sometimes about guys who transition into females? Do you get like, geez, you're John Wayne, what the heck is wrong with you?
Haha not exactly :D!
After all - female is the more beautiful/attractive sex in general!!! So usually MTFs just look waaay better after transitioning imo :D! I'm a total straight guy so... ;D! The more women on this planet the better ;D ;D ;D!
But like you - has crossed my mind with ftms funnily. Even with myself. Sometimes been thinking if I could've made a nice-looking woman then xDDD. Totally nuts! Like 'why do I need/want body hair exactly' etc... Especially with balding and stuff. But really can't stand my body has a female shape so T is a necessity for me! I just hope T will make me more good-looking - and not uglier :D!
It's not wasting much of anything if the person never uses it or doesn't know how to use it. . . it's just envy I suppose. I've known plenty of cis women and cis men who just let themselves go. My SO for example has the sort of face an actor would love to have. But he doesn't really care to use it in that way. I do want to be an actor, so it bugs the hell out of me, haha.
Three pages late to the party, but the thing is transition is never about attractiveness or looks. A lot of guys or girls look attractive pre-transition but that doesnt matter because that's not them, if being trans was about being ugly, so many people with low self esteem would transition to the other sex because they'd supposedly look prettier that way, but no one ever transitions for looks.
Does it play some role? Sure, dysphoria might make people feel negative about their bodies, not take care of themselves, or not view themselves favorably. Vice versa, they might look at the aesthetics of people on the other side of the fence and be like "I want to be pretty like that!" but that isnt to say a general apathy or dysphoria for one's own current gender doesnt come into play.
My case, I could be considered pretty, I guess. I liked my body, I was cute and all...I bet if people looked at me Id look good. I hated being girly though, there was a very strong impulse to move the other way, look different, etc. I look good and feel better now, not just look good.
Not really because I get it!
I have had trans people say some of these things to me
and it annoyes the heck out of me sometimes.
As a female I was considered tall, nice eyes, long brown hair and I always got
"You should model!"
Now I'm a short skinny guy (because 5"8 ish is short in male) with weird eyes
And I couldn't be happier.
I think it shows how serious those trans people are.
You are basically giving up those aspects that some would see as a advantage
"Beauty/handsome privilege".
Wow, it seems like FTM's are just like MTF's, just on the other side!
Quote from: amandam on March 05, 2018, 01:16:50 AM
Wow, it seems like FTM's are just like MTF's, just on the other side!
I couldn't fathom why this wouldn't be the case.