Some background: I was unable to orgasm post-op after more than a year of trying. A doctor suggested trying testosterone. With a single application of T gell, I was able to orgasm easily. I only use it once every week or two. My endo agrees that using it in this way is not likely to do me any harm.
A few weeks ago, I unexpectedly found myself orgasming without having used T that day (my last use was 10 days earlier). I tried repeating the experiment the next day but did not succeed. I chalked it up to the unexplained, but it happened again yesterday (11 days since my last T). So clearly Something is Different.
Is it possible that a single application of T-Gel could stay in my system for 10+ days? Or has my body somehow figured out how to orgasm without it?
I've tried researching the pharmacokinetics of a single dose of T gel, but could only find data for T taken daily. Is there a way I could research the effects of T-levels many days after a single application?
My next endo appointment is in the summer. I could call her up and ask her, but it would be nice to have answers without bothering her.
Not sure I understand what you are doing. There is testerone for women that you apply every day. I don't think it's something you need be concernded about using. In Australia there is AndroFeme 1% for example.
Quote from: AnonyMs on February 23, 2018, 08:31:17 AM
Not sure I understand what you are doing. There is testerone for women that you apply every day. I don't think it's something you need be concernded about using. In Australia there is AndroFeme 1% for example.
I'm in the U.S. There is no T product formulated for women approved for use in the U.S. (or so I'm told).
I found this
When AndroGel 1.62% treatment is discontinued, serum testosterone concentrations return to approximately baseline concentrations within 48-72 hours after administration of the last dose.
Guess it's not the kind of thing I can post a link to.
Any chance it's on your clothes or bed?
I can orgasm even without testosterone. I wouldn't worry much about this, I think by now, it's probably all gone from your body.
I apply some T daily and love it! :)
Quote from: AnonyMs on February 23, 2018, 09:29:16 AM
I found this
When AndroGel 1.62% treatment is discontinued, serum testosterone concentrations return to approximately baseline concentrations within 48-72 hours after administration of the last dose.
Guess it's not the kind of thing I can post a link to.
Perfect. It was enough to for me to google. It was a posting at NIH which is usually reliable.
Thank you.
Quote from: AnonyMs on February 23, 2018, 09:31:28 AM
Any chance it's on your clothes or bed?
Possibly. Though it's hard to imagine that clothing would be a reliable reservoir for a significant amount of T gel over a period of weeks. I usually wash stuff I wear against my skin, and I wear sweats at night. The sweats I wore yesterday had been washed since I used T. I'm wondering if there's some still trapped in my skin (which is how T gel works - it's stored in the skin). Maybe there's some mechanism associated with the natural activity of skin that releases residual T after about ten days. Or maybe that's a coincidence and my body is somehow compensating for the lack of T in ways that I couldn't get it to do a few years ago.
Perhaps there's some psychological component and now that you've got past some initial hurdle using T it's become easier.
Quote from: AnonyMs on February 23, 2018, 11:20:30 AM
Perhaps there's some psychological component and now that you've got past some initial hurdle using T it's become easier.
Ding! Ding! Ding! We have a winner! This is way more likely to be the reason than some kind of medically very unlikely alternative. Add to that, that T is not the driver of erection/orgasm as people seem to think - E will work just as well for the most part.
As far as creams/gels go, any T gel at 1% strength would be fine..
Quote from: PurplePelican on February 23, 2018, 02:27:19 PMT is not the driver of erection/orgasm as people seem to think - E will work just as well for the most part.
Post-op since 2005. I've been on high, moderate and low doses of E with low and high dose progesterone or no progesterone. My clitoris only became sensitive after adding T and I could finally reach clitoral orgasm. My nipples also, surprisingly, became sensitive. I also produce much more lubrication than before, my vagina is moister and my libido has increased. For me, T has made a HUGE difference.
Quote from: suzifrommd on February 23, 2018, 08:44:00 AM
I'm in the U.S. There is no T product formulated for women approved for use in the U.S. (or so I'm told).
I believe when T is prescribed for women in the U.S. it's administered by patches. The other possibility is the gel can be measured with a syringe to provide a measured reduced dosage.
Quote from: Dena on February 23, 2018, 05:32:26 PM
I believe when T is prescribed for women in the U.S. it's administered by patches. The other possibility is the gel can be measured with a syringe to provide a measured reduced dosage.
There is no longer that option of T patches especially designed for women. The only two options are:
- using a product such as Androgel designed for men and only applying a little amount such as what I currently do, works fine for me.
- having a compounded pharmacy prepare a cream or any other product for you that contains T
I tried T for a short while 6 months post op and went to a compounding pharmacy, a special Walgreens. I has some issues putting on T at the time but am ready for it now. I see my Doctor in March so I will ask for a script then and maybe even some progesterone cream.
I can orgasm but it takes a lot of stimulation. Dr. McGinn said T would allow for a quicker orgasm with less effort.
T does a lot more than just facilitate orgasm, it gives you energy, motivation to do things, some muscle mass, nicer/thicker and plumper skin that glows and is no longer dry, etc. The cream apparently doesn't seem to give high enough levels in the blood, as far as progesterone goes, based on several studies. Hope the T affects you as positively as it does me. :angel:
Your adrenal glands still produce a little bit of T post-op.
Anti-androgens can put the hypofyse asleep for a long time with longterm consequenses. It could be that you kickstarted your adrenals again to produce some T. You added exogenous T and that could maybe have kickstarted your adrenal glands to re-produce T.
It is just a theory though. I don't have scientific studies to back my claims up.
Quote from: Transfused on February 25, 2018, 11:16:15 AM
Your adrenal glands still produce a little bit of T post-op.
Anti-androgens can put the hypofyse asleep for a long time with longterm consequenses. It could be that you kickstarted your adrenals again to produce some T. You added exogenous T and that could maybe have kickstarted your adrenal glands to re-produce T.
It is just a theory though. I don't have scientific studies to back my claims up.
Yes, this is the scenario I was considering - that a year and a half of spiro (and 50 years of having testicles) put the other sources of T in my system to sleep, and that it's taken this long post-op to wake it them up again.
If this is discussed somewhere in medical literature, I would be grateful for a reference if anyone has.
If you adrenals started increasing more it should turn up in your next blood test.
The opposite sometimes happens after SRS, where the adrenals produce too much to compensate to the loss of the other and women post-op women need to take anti-androgen's for a while.
Quote from: suzifrommd on February 26, 2018, 08:00:45 AM
Yes, this is the scenario I was considering - that a year and a half of spiro (and 50 years of having testicles) put the other sources of T in my system to sleep, and that it's taken this long post-op to wake it them up again.
If this is discussed somewhere in medical literature, I would be grateful for a reference if anyone has.
There is no mechanism whereby T would kick start the adrenal glands to produce more T, that just is scientifically implausible. Caffeine, perhaps and stress. Or anti-glucorticoids.
Well, it happened again last night. It's been 17 days since the last T application, so I'm ruling out that it has something to do with residual T in my system.
Quote from: KayXo on February 26, 2018, 09:09:28 AM
There is no mechanism whereby T would kick start the adrenal glands to produce more T, that just is scientifically implausible. Caffeine, perhaps and stress. Or anti-glucorticoids.
Well, I'm thinking exactly the opposite - that the lack of T (except occasionally) for the 3+ years since surgery has stimulated my adrenals to pick up the slack.
Quote from: suzifrommd on February 23, 2018, 07:48:04 AM
Is it possible that a single application of T-Gel could stay in my system for 10+ days? Or has my body somehow figured out how to orgasm without it?
I've tried researching the pharmacokinetics of a single dose of T gel, but could only find data for T taken daily. Is there a way I could research the effects of T-levels many days after a single application?
Getting back to the original question, the half life of testosterone really depends on the type of testosterone you are taking. Topical preparations have a half life of 4 to 24 hours, where as injectable has a half life of 4 or 5 days.
With T-Gel, the absorption will stop when you wash it off by sweating too much or taking a shower. Within 5 half lives, there should be no testosterone left in your blood system.
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 01, 2018, 06:22:52 AMthe lack of T (except occasionally) for the 3+ years since surgery has stimulated my adrenals to pick up the slack.
It doesn't work that way. ACTH isn't increased by the lack of T, only LH and FSH. My adrenals certainly haven't picked up the slack since my surgery in 2005 and I needed to eventually add some T.
Quote from: Dani on March 01, 2018, 06:49:10 AMWith T-Gel, the absorption will stop when you wash it off by sweating too much or taking a shower.
I believe absorption mostly stops when the alcohol totally evaporates which in the case of Androgel takes a few seconds. Taking a shower within the hour may still remove some of the T lying in the outer surfaces of the skin though
Quote from: KayXo on March 01, 2018, 09:16:01 AM
I believe absorption mostly stops when the alcohol totally evaporates which in the case of Androgel takes a few seconds. Taking a shower within the hour may still remove some of the T lying in the outer surfaces of the skin though
Quote from: Dani on March 01, 2018, 06:49:10 AM
With T-Gel, the absorption will stop when you wash it off by sweating too much or taking a shower. Within 5 half lives, there should be no testosterone left in your blood system.
That's not how I understand it works. According to an article posted on the NIH website (https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3891651/):
QuoteThe skin serves as a reservoir for the sustained release of testosterone into the systemic circulation.
Later in the article, that mechanism is described in more detail:
QuoteThe patient should avoid showering, swimming, or washing the site for at least 3 hours after application to allow adequate absorption of the drug into the subcutaneous tissue where it remains stored for continuous release into the systemic circulation.
My interpretation of this article is that the T remains in the skin long after it has evaporated or been washed from the surface. That it remains in the subcutaneous tissue where it is absorbed steadily.
I may have misconstrued my message. After the alcohol evaporates, there is no more T that will absorb into the superficial layers of skin from where during the following hours, it will migrate into the dermis and subcutaneous tissue where it absorbs into the blood slowly over the course of many hours. At least, this is my understanding from everything I read.
In any case, if stopped, I highly doubt that anything remains in the subcutaneous tissue after 1 week.
Quote from: suzifrommd on March 02, 2018, 12:03:42 PM
My interpretation of this article is that the T remains in the skin long after it has evaporated or been washed from the surface. That it remains in the subcutaneous tissue where it is absorbed steadily.
Even though a portion of the testosterone stays in the skin acting like a reservoir for longer absorption , there is a half-life for that application. Applying a second dose renews and extends that half-life. This effect is well documented in the science of Pharmacokinetics. Some timed release drugs use a deposit or reservoir of medication and others use a slowly dissolving coating over active medication to release a second dose some hours after the first dose. Regardless all drug delivery methods have a half-life after a single dose. Even if the drug in question uses a reservoir to continue drug release, the reservoir will eventually become depleted and that is where the half-life becomes noticeable.