I was reading the thread about the guy who got in trouble for wearing a bra in his house and I started thinking about something that really irritates me. Why is it ok for guys to run around with no shirt but criminal for women to do it? Where did this stupid double standard come from?? Imagine a park and there is a woman with a gorgeous body and beautiful breasts. She gets hot so she removes her shirt and bra. It takes all of 3 minutes for someone to call the police and she gets arrested and hauled away. Now picture the same park. There's this fat guy. He takes off his shirt. His stomach hangs to his knees and is covered with thick black hair, he has flabby man boobs, also covered with hair and has enough hair on his back and shoulders to make a rug. But it's perfectly ok for him to be shirtless! WTF is that? ???? Not only do women have to wear a shirt at all times but a bra too. Once I had just gotten out of bed and walked into the kitchen. It was chilly and I guess my nipples were at attention. My brother quickly looked away and said " OMG Julia, why don't you have a bra on"? I told him because I just got up. I asked him what his problem was and said I did have a top on and its not like I was topless. He said I might as well be because you could totally see the outline of my boobs through my shirt. He told me I couldn't go around the house like that and that I needed to look into sleep bras or something. Sleep bras! Yeah, Im totally not sleeping in a bra! I told him he was nuts. My dad said that maybe I should wear thicker tops to bed. Ok, both of them were in nothing but their boxer shorts when they were saying all this to me. I told them that they needed to start wearing pajamas then because they couldn't run around in the house in just boxer shorts. Tyler said " we are guys Julia, it's ok for us to just wear boxers around the house". I told him that was a total double standard and he gave me his standard answer when he makes chauvinist remarks. " I don't make the rules Julia." Aghhh!
Guys have nipples too so who decided it's ok for them to be topless but wrong for women to be? That doesn't make sense to me. And no, I wouldn't go around topless even if it was allowed but it really irritates me that it's actually a crime for a woman to do that but it's perfectly fine for a guy no matter how gross and disgusting he might look. I mean why isn't there a law for the preservation of peoples eyesight and prevention of emotional trauma?
It may be because men objectify women's breasts, whereas women do not with a mans. ( not entirely true though)
Men wrote the laws and they don't feel they should be worried about modesty of themselves, that's for a woman to deal with.
A bare mans chest can be alluring to women as much as it is for men and a woman's breasts, but throughout the ages, it has come to this.
Quote from: Jessica on March 27, 2018, 11:09:23 AM
It may be because men objectify women's breasts, whereas women do not with a mans. ( not entirely true though)
Men wrote the laws and they don't feel they should be worried about modesty of themselves, that's for a woman to deal with.
A bare mans chest can be alluring to women as much as it is for men and a woman's breasts, but throughout the ages, it has come to this.
That's nice. Because guys can't control themselves around boobs women have to stay covered. Ugh!
Puritanism. Adam went without clothes but Eve used fig leafs to cover herself. I suggest if you come to Cali you may want to try Blacks Beach in La Jolla just north of San Diego.
Black's Beach in San Diego is the one of the largest nude beaches in the United States[9] and is popular with Southern Californian nudists and naturists. Originally including the current Torrey Pines State Beach, Black's Beach was the first and only public nude beach in the country for several years in the mid-1970s.[3] Because Black's Beach was traditionally recognized as a clothing optional beach, nudity is tolerated for the portion of the beach that is managed by the state park.[1][
Well I'm not complaining. I love seeing hot guys with their shirts off :)
Quote from: Charlie Nicki on March 27, 2018, 11:48:14 AM
Well I'm not complaining. I love seeing hot guys with their shirts off :)
I do too but the idea they are allowed to be topless and women aren't is not fair. Plus a lot of they guys I see topless out in public shouldn't ever be without a shirt and I need eye bleach after seeing them. 😖
Ugh, there has a big controversy at some of the beaches here which implemented much stricter rules about female breasts having to be covered. Since I still have a male ID, I was very tempted to go topless to that beach and see what happens... I could have always said I am male, you cannot stop me (but just the though of this made me dysphoric)
But i do agree, there is such a double standard. When women get attacked or mistreated by men, it is their fault for "dressing inappropriately".
One of the strangest things about 3 month into HRT was that I could not go topless anymore. I barely had anything growing but I could not stand the thought of men staring at the little I have. So their misbehavior made me cover up.
Mostly cultural.
Some parts of the world have no sexual interest in boobs in the culture, so the women there go topless or naked. In other parts almost no part of a woman can be seen or she's probably going to be gang-raped and nobody will bat an eye. You know the places I'm taking about.
We've got a situation somewhere in the middle. I heard New York doesn't care so it's regional, too. It's all about what people in the area find acceptable. There are nudist areas but I guess if you do it in the wrong area the decency laws are going to come down on you.
Where does it come from originally though - well, Abrahamic religions for the most part and the culture they spawned. But maybe also from the culture's desire to protect women and/or prevent men being aroused by them. From the same place fathers are protective of their daughters. Society's fear of rape, I suppose. These days if there was no law banning it, how many of you would still want to go topless in the street? How much of it is down to law and how much to covering up because we know it will attract (most likely unwanted) attention.
I think that the guys are just trying to get us ladies to reciprocate. :laugh:
Just my opinion though, I could be wrong, but I don't think so.
In high school, most of the guys in gym class would go shirtless. When it came to electing which sport I wanted to participate in, I selected the girl ones. I had got in trouble playing tennis. It was hot and muggy, so I had taken off my shirt. Never mind that I was male, and shaped like a stick figure, I had to put my shirt back on.
Apparently, someone saw me from the back, and thought I was one of the girls, and made a complaint.
These days, if I wear a sun dress, guys get aroused.
Quote from: Julia1996 on March 27, 2018, 11:01:21 AM
Imagine a park and there is a woman with a gorgeous body and beautiful breasts. She gets hot so she removes her shirt and bra. It takes all of 3 minutes for someone to call the police and she gets arrested and hauled away. Now picture the same park. There's this fat guy. He takes off his shirt. His stomach hangs to his knees and is covered with thick black hair, he has flabby man boobs, also covered with hair and has enough hair on his back and shoulders to make a rug. But it's perfectly ok for him to be shirtless! WTF is that? ????
imagine a word where people are allowed to be publicly comfortable in their bodies regardless of how conventionally attractive they are
Actually I think there have been cases of people reporting other people on FB and the like for showing their moobs. Mistaking them for women and getting their pics taken down
Quote from: Kylo on March 27, 2018, 04:42:43 PM
Actually I think there have been cases of people reporting other people on FB and the like for showing their moobs. Mistaking them for women and getting their pics taken down
Lol. 😂😂
Quote from: Peep on March 27, 2018, 04:34:51 PM
imagine a word where people are allowed to be publicly comfortable in their bodies regardless of how conventionally attractive they are
They have places like that. Nudist colonies. Those people don't care how they look.
Now past pretend cis me with boobs from medicatiion what the hell am i ment to do there apart from remove from the situation, cant go swimming for instance. If topless its just weird for me wondering what others think and others thinking wtf, how do i react here. Ofc if i wore a fem bikni top or a swimsuit and then trunks it would be even weirder for all!
Trans me now wears a bra now as self concous on standing to attention nipples so try to just own it with a so what attitude
Would be better all around if everyones baps were just allowed to dangle about!
Quote from: Shambles on March 27, 2018, 05:30:57 PM
Now past pretend cis me with boobs from medicatiion what the hell am i ment to do there apart from remove from the situation, cant go swimming for instance. If topless its just weird for me wondering what others think and others thinking wtf, how do i react here. Ofc if i wore a fem bikni top or a swimsuit and then trunks it would be even weirder for all!
Trans me now wears a bra now as self concous on standing to attention nipples so try to just own it with a so what attitude
Would be better all around if everyones baps were just allowed to dangle about!
Im sure gynomastica causes CIS guys major stress. That's a sad situation for sure.
In Canada both men and women are aloud to go topless but still no shoes no shirt no service applies but out in public it is fair game for both
Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on March 27, 2018, 07:09:18 PM
In Canada both men and women are aloud to go topless but still no shoes no shirt no service applies but out in public it is fair game for both
Tyler always runs around shirtless in the summer. Once he went into a convenience store and the cashier told him he couldn't come in there without a shirt. Lol. He got so mad!
I dunno what's more offensive, people turning up at the conveenie shirtless or people turning up to Tesco in their pajamas like they sometimes do round here, lazy sods
So, as I have aged it is now obvious that I have a male body. Mostly. I have breasts that are very feminine, perky and obvious. Had them since puberty. And I go topless a lot. I also have long hair so I do get some funny looks.
Who cares? Not me.
Quote from: Julia1996 on March 27, 2018, 11:01:21 AM
I was reading the thread about the guy who got in trouble for wearing a bra in his house and I started thinking about something that really irritates me. Why is it ok for guys to run around with no shirt but criminal for women to do it? Where did this stupid double standard come from?? Imagine a park and there is a woman with a gorgeous body and beautiful breasts. She gets hot so she removes her shirt and bra. It takes all of 3 minutes for someone to call the police and she gets arrested and hauled away. Now picture the same park. There's this fat guy. He takes off his shirt. His stomach hangs to his knees and is covered with thick black hair, he has flabby man boobs, also covered with hair and has enough hair on his back and shoulders to make a rug. But it's perfectly ok for him to be shirtless! WTF is that? ???? Not only do women have to wear a shirt at all times but a bra too. Once I had just gotten out of bed and walked into the kitchen. It was chilly and I guess my nipples were at attention. My brother quickly looked away and said " OMG Julia, why don't you have a bra on"? I told him because I just got up. I asked him what his problem was and said I did have a top on and its not like I was topless. He said I might as well be because you could totally see the outline of my boobs through my shirt. He told me I couldn't go around the house like that and that I needed to look into sleep bras or something. Sleep bras! Yeah, Im totally not sleeping in a bra! I told him he was nuts. My dad said that maybe I should wear thicker tops to bed. Ok, both of them were in nothing but their boxer shorts when they were saying all this to me. I told them that they needed to start wearing pajamas then because they couldn't run around in the house in just boxer shorts. Tyler said " we are guys Julia, it's ok for us to just wear boxers around the house". I told him that was a total double standard and he gave me his standard answer when he makes chauvinist remarks. " I don't make the rules Julia." Aghhh!
Guys have nipples too so who decided it's ok for them to be topless but wrong for women to be? That doesn't make sense to me. And no, I wouldn't go around topless even if it was allowed but it really irritates me that it's actually a crime for a woman to do that but it's perfectly fine for a guy no matter how gross and disgusting he might look. I mean why isn't there a law for the preservation of peoples eyesight and prevention of emotional trauma?
This has to be the most hilarious post I have ever read; Julia, you should consider writing and especially comedy as a profession. I think you would make a fortune.
I laughed so hard my eyes started watering. Everything you said is absolutely true. I'm going to bet you have an IQ of at least 160. Keep up the great writing; I'm still laughing.
Thanks for the funnies,
Christine
Back in the early nineties I was in the hospital and didn't have any PJs. I had pants and a few t-shirts but the shirts were dirty so I was walking down the hall with no shirt on. Now, granted back then I had a job throwing and lifting heavy objects (not weight lifting but apparently the same result) and while I never thought of being married, apparently had a nice physical appearance, not the muscle bound beach type, but clearly an upside down triangle I guess you'd call it. Needless to say, more than one nurse looked at me, blushed and moved on except for one, the head nurse as I recall, told me to either put a shirt on or go back to my room. Honestly, there had been no intent to excite anyone but it happens. This was a guy having an effect on some women.
Women going around with no tops on would certainly "excite" guys so I think the reason is for safety more than anything else.
Reminds me one time of going to the beach with some friends. I think it was up by Malibu and there was a nude beach but to get to it you had to climb over some rocks. I'm not a nudist nor am I interested in being a nudist but as we made it up the rocks there were a number of "no-clothes" women passing us by. When we finally ended up on the beach there were a few guys who looked initially like they were fishing in the surf but became very obvious that the poles were not fishing poles.
Julia, try this on your brother when he is walking around the house in his boxers: You walk around in only your panties and tell him "You are right accepting that you do not make the rules, because I make them! There will be no discrimination in this house."
Eh... maybe I'm I'm the minority here, but I think I'd rather everyone generally kept their clothing on. I have enough to put up with in this world as it is, and I can do without characters airing themselves out right in front of me.
Quote from: Natsuki Kuga on March 31, 2018, 02:30:02 PM
Eh... maybe I'm I'm the minority here, but I think I'd rather everyone generally kept their clothing on. I have enough to put up with in this world as it is, and I can do without characters airing themselves out right in front of me.
I agree with you; there's a big box store that seems to have a lock on "characters", I think they are called "Malmartians" or something like that. I'd hate to see them "neked."
Christine
Quote from: christinej78 on March 31, 2018, 07:28:14 PM
I agree with you; there's a big box store that seems to have a lock on "characters", I think they are called "Malmartians" or something like that. I'd hate to see them "neked."
Christine
:)
You Awl best not come to Vegas's Fremont Street
Quote from: Cassi on March 31, 2018, 08:07:14 PM
:)
You Awl best not come to Vegas's Fremont Street
<shudders>
Is Freemont Street something I should know about or just flat ignore?
Christine
Quote from: christinej78 on April 01, 2018, 01:07:27 PM
Is Freemont Street something I should know about or just flat ignore?
Christine
It is the old Las Vegas Strip in the past Before the mega mania started. Lots of old casinos. They tried to revive it by calling it Experience and they installed a fancy video roof over it.
Still a good place too see Las Vegas History and get awesome Mojitos for under $5.
Before transition I always had the "Stripper Supply" on Industrial St. on my list. Now I'd rather go to the Fashion Mall
Unless you visit Las Vegas you can ignore it. I am there regularly for conventions and trade shows...
Here, Julia, this one is for you:
(https://i.imgur.com/0lbIgL7.png)
Terri
uuuggghhhhh... and then considering that he is all hairy on top of everything. (I have to admit I have issues with "hairy" guys, especially since it remembers me of the little hair i have left)
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on April 01, 2018, 04:11:47 PM
Here, Julia, this one is for you:
(https://i.imgur.com/0lbIgL7.png)
Terri
There is another way to think about this in my opinion. Okay it is a given that there is a double standard with this issue. I also see having boobs as like a female super power. Most men crave them and can't seem to move their eyes up to the face when getting a glimpse of just part of them. I have been envious of having them all my life. If all goes well, I will have bigger boobs by mid July. I will enjoy wearing a swim suit that gives a hint of what is there. Oh yes I will. But, I don't know how I would enjoy going to a culture where woman's boobs are exposed all the time and no one pays any attention. "Oh, a pair of boobs." thought of as like just seeing another person's nose. I want to acquire and enjoy that super power even if no one looks. It is more for me anyway rather than an attempt to attract anybody. Also there is something to be said for the excitement of taking that top off in the middle of main street,...ugh... I mean in a secluded beach area somewhere. Yeah, that's what I meant!
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on April 01, 2018, 04:11:47 PM
Here, Julia, this one is for you:
(https://i.imgur.com/0lbIgL7.png)
Terri
Lol, that's hilarious! 😂
After reading this stuff, I went to an Easter party at my brother's house. One guy (wearing a thin pink shirt) got out of his car. His nipples protruded enough to be obviously noticeable. His body? Apple shaped! All I could think was "please, do NOT take off your shirt!"
Quote from: Jin on March 29, 2018, 11:07:56 AM
Julia, try this on your brother when he is walking around the house in his boxers: You walk around in only your panties and tell him "You are right accepting that you do not make the rules, because I make them! There will be no discrimination in this house."
Love this! It's exactly what I would do.
Quote from: Daisy Jane on April 03, 2018, 10:35:17 PM
Love this! It's exactly what I would do.
Lol, yeah that would go over like a lead balloon. My dad and Tyler would both have a stroke if I ever did that. I always used to sleep in just shorts in the summer. After about a year into hrt I had small but definite breasts. One morning I had overslept and my dad came in my room to wake me up. Let's just say he was not a happy man. Since then it's been a rule that I have to sleep with a top on.
Haha, I'm sure it would go over very poorly. That's why it works! It's a power play! If you make them uncomfortable enough, they'll stop wandering around in their boxers.
For the record, I'm not necessarily recommending you do this. It's just what I would do. :)
Daisy has it right. You live in the house too, make your mark on the world!
That is what I would to also,...oh wait, I always have!
I think it makes sense for your brother to ask that but it also makes sense for him to put on something more than just boxers.
Breasts are a (perceived) erogenous zone for men and he does not want to connect that with you because you're his sister.
I think the whole discussion hinges on that. A male chest isn't as erogenous as women's, usually. And culture does play a role in that - in western culture "boobs" are seen as something to be craved - and the fact that there's a "requirement" to cover them up just makes them more desirable.
I agree with Peep, I don't think being unattractive should require people to cover themselves up, unless they are in a situation where naturally everybody is required to do so.
To clarify, I personally wasn't talking about going topless. I meant that if it was me I would probably walk around in bra and underwear. The minimal coverage, plus the added shape of me not having GCS would create enough awkwardness in a sibling to get results.
Quote from: natalie.ashlyne on March 27, 2018, 07:09:18 PM
In Canada both men and women are aloud to go topless but still no shoes no shirt no service applies but out in public it is fair game for both
I'ts also common practice for a woman to breastfeed uncovered in public and people consider the act 'progressive' and 'heroic.' (I personally consider it lazy, it takes an extra what 3 seconds to pop a comfy blanket into the ol' diaper bag?)
I sat through thanksgiving dinner in an old folks home where my hippie cousin was breastfeeding uncovered at the dinner table.. (Her child is also a little BEYOND the age of breastfeeding making the act somewhat disturbing..)
Modesty is dead.
Hey all. Just a quick reminder to show respect for all body types. Body shaming anywhere on the gender spectrum is not cool.
While I think the discussion has been okay and pretty funny at moments, it may occasionally get personal. Lets keep that all in mind.
With warmth,
Jacqui
I've never seen someone breast feed in public. Just not done here, I guess. Wouldn't really care if they did, as I don't get the idea of finding that in any way sexual or intimate but I guess some people might.
I had a woman breastfeed her child in the plane seat next to me. Little dude was hungry, I had no reason to watch him eat, though. It's easy to look somewhere else.
Yay for guys, they can walk down the street with no shirt. They can stay out on the street while I have a nice meal in a restaurant, too. :laugh:
All people should dress appropriately, and if you're not on the beach, that means ALL your clothes.
Quote from: Kylo on April 14, 2018, 03:41:10 PM
I've never seen someone breast feed in public. Just not done here, I guess. Wouldn't really care if they did, as I don't get the idea of finding that in any way sexual or intimate but I guess some people might.
I just think of it this way, if a man were to whip out his penis in public and urinate he goes to jail. Also not intimate or sexual. Just another necessary biological function in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Quote from: Angela Drakken on April 15, 2018, 07:10:41 AM
I just think of it this way, if a man were to whip out his penis in public and urinate he goes to jail. Also not intimate or sexual. Just another necessary biological function in the wrong place at the wrong time.
Youre talking out your rear end. If a woman urinated in public she'd get locked up too.
No one gets arrested for eating in public, and babies feed on breast milk. Grow up and get over it.
Quote from: Devlyn Marie on April 15, 2018, 07:51:34 AM
Youre talking out your rear end. If a woman urinated in public she'd get locked up too.
No one gets arrested for eating in public, and babies feed on breast milk. Grow up and get over it.
Devlyn, 15 Apr 2018
Nice response; love it.
Best always,
Christine
I think the actual answer to the question is mostly just a cultural and psychological thing. Many African or tribal cultures go around almost completely naked. But in our western cultures such things are not considered to be ok. It's just the way our current society works. And I personally think maybe our culture came to that based on growing from a culture that was minoratizing women and of a higher standard sophistication. I think it works similarly to public displays of affection where too many people don't want to see it in public and ask that people keep it to themselves. So even though there are people who say "who cares we are all human," the vast majority of this particular society doesn't think that way so in order to get around that you either need to move to a different culture where it's tolerated, or wait/help influence society's beliefs to change on the matter.
On a side note, there's also the argument that men's brains are hardwired to become sexually aroused on the site of women's breasts where women don't really get that way as much in seeing men's breasts. But as we know there exist cultures who live in the nude despite this, so in theory it can happen, but it's gonna be one hell of a long time before I see a country like the US decide to do that too.
Quote from: Angela Drakken on April 14, 2018, 07:37:13 AM
I'ts also common practice for a woman to breastfeed uncovered in public and people consider the act 'progressive' and 'heroic.' (I personally consider it lazy, it takes an extra what 3 seconds to pop a comfy blanket into the ol' diaper bag?)
I sat through thanksgiving dinner in an old folks home where my hippie cousin was breastfeeding uncovered at the dinner table.. (Her child is also a little BEYOND the age of breastfeeding making the act somewhat disturbing..)
Modesty is dead.
I saw a woman breast feed once at the mall. I thought it was kind of gross honestly. That kid was really chowing down and even making noises. It kind of reminded me of zombie noises. I was just thinking " OMG lady, what did your boobs ever do to you to deserve that abuse"? If I could have children they would get bottles! Eww!
:police:
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