So I'm not sure where I should go for next steps with my wife. I have not transitioned yet (work, close family member) but I'm out and about a lot of the time. My wife has known about me for years and is pretty accepting as long as she doesn't have to go out with me and I don't tell friends, family, neighbors, etc... I have been on HRT for over a year and I hide a lot of my changes. She won't go out with me because she doesn't want someone to see us and realize who she is with.
I got my wife to go out with me for a couple of days in Las Vegas. She handled it pretty well but was definitely not comfortable being around me. Yes I want that same type of relationship that we have when we are out as husband and wife, but the wife wouldn't hold hands or show really any public affection. Which I understand to a point, she is not attracted to a women. But her previous excuse is not really valid. We won't know anyone there and I would like her to start interacting with me.
We have talked about both of us wanting to stay together and I think I try and take it slow with her and try and make her feel comfortable being around me. I would like to tell our kids and other family members, friends. If she doesn't make an effort or the effort is so slow that it could be years and years. When I'm ready to fully transition and she is still in the starting block where will we be. How do I approach the subject of some of these hard questions. I can't force her to do things she doesn't want to do.
I'm trying to move and grow both as a person and a trans-women. I don't want to lose her but if she is not willing I don't think I can continue.
Any advice is welcome.
Thanks for listening.
Julie
Hi Julie 🙋♀️ Might I suggest, if you haven't already, seek out couples therapy with someone that is familiar with transgender patients. If she is hesitant, then separately at the least.
It sounds like you are ready, and she is still not sure how she feels or is holding on to the old you and life. If you feel you need to move forward immediately, your wife may not have the same pace you are moving at. Counseling together can move you at the same rate, making the chances of working things to a happy conclusion.
Try Las Vegas again when she is ready. What happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas, after all.
Big hugs and good luck, Jessica
Jessica,
Thanks for the input. We aren't in the same place and I don't mind slowing down but I would also like to see more acceptance little by little. I brought up counseling before and she is not a big fan. I see a therapist and have talked with her about this. It helps somewhat.
Other friends have also told me to try and seek some therapy. I'll keep trying.
Julie
Julie, I feel so sad for you. You are faced with a very difficult choice, and each option involves tremendous loss. There is no indication in your initial post that your wife wants to be with/be married to a trans-woman. And you seem rather set on progressing in your journey as a woman. No one can predict the future, but your progression does not seem compatible wth staying with her. Something has to give.
For myself, (in no way do I suggest this is or has been the right course of action for me or others), I have chosen to sublimate my femininity in order to stay married. I knew that if I continued that I was going to lose my marriage. I couldn't have both my wife and my feminine self. The woman you see in my avatar is me, and how I think of myself—but not the me who looks back in the mirror (except in my private moments), or goes out to dinner with my wife (although, and she knows and accepts this, I am always wearing quite feminine underwear).
I still often long for the life I could have had and cry for the lost woman inside of me. But I look at my kids and grandkids, and the life we share—I just couldn't bring myself to leave. I know how painful it is. The person I most wanted to understand, accept, and love Nancy was my wife—and she rejected her. She told me that she "fell in love with a man." Of course if I had a do-over I would have transitioned before I fell in love, but I didn't understand myself when I fell in love with her, nor did I know that some of what I was falling in love with was her femininity. Wishing you the best, Nancy
It takes time. Initially Jo did not want to be seen with me because I embarrassed her. But she realizes one of the goals of my transition is mental stability. Now that she sees the results and the fact I am much more pleasant than I was, she is opening up little by little. We are making inroads while I get to fulfill my desires by going to support meetings and therapy en femme. Hopefully sometime Chris will find time to go to lunch together. I am still feeling my way as hiding for so many years is hard to overcome. We are back to giving hugs and when I came home from the hospital she said she missed me and was happy I was home. Like I said. It takes time. Don't give up unless you have no other choice. The next surprise for her is when I start using my femme voice.
Quote from: Jessica on April 09, 2018, 10:00:02 PM
Hi Julie 🙋♀️ Might I suggest, if you haven't already, seek out couples therapy with someone that is familiar with transgender patients. If she is hesitant, then separately at the least.
It sounds like you are ready, and she is still not sure how she feels or is holding on to the old you and life. If you feel you need to move forward immediately, your wife may not have the same pace you are moving at. Counseling together can move you at the same rate, making the chances of working things to a happy conclusion.
Try Las Vegas again when she is ready. What happens in Las Vegas stays in Las Vegas, after all.
Big hugs and good luck, Jessica
You can say that again, Jessica!
:)
Julie,
I face the same dilemma with my wife. She is even less accepting than your wife.
I do not want to do anything that will compromise our relationship. However, I have to find some way to make progress and get her acceptance.
My wife also has the lesbian appearance issue but is opening up more and more all the time. I am out to everyone and living full time female now. Going out together with Donna has not happened yet but will soon. Tiny steps forward for now and the major hurdles will fall.
Nancy,
Thank you for your words. A lot of things you said really hit home. She has told me that she doesn't want to lose me and I don't want to lose her either. But as you said, it is a very tough decision. I don't want to wake up one day with regrets. We have but this one life and I want to be happy. I wasn't happy and thought many times about ending it. I don't know, well I do know in a perfect world I would transition today or 20 years ago. But it isn't a perfect world and I'm not the only one this effects. Since getting on HRT my depression has really gone away or way down. I love me now. Maybe I don't have to fully, I don't know.
You have made a tough decision and I do admire you for it. I do need more I'm just not sure how much more. I happy that you have a path you may not be fully happy with but you have a path you can live with and your wife and live with it.
Julie
Quote from: DawnOday on April 13, 2018, 08:49:58 PM
It takes time. Don't give up unless you have no other choice.
The next surprise for her is when I start using my femme voice.
Dawn,
Thanks for the reply. It does take time and when I wrote my initial post I was upset and I don't know how much of what I was trying to say made sense to everyone. Slowly she accepts more but I don't know if she accepts or I don't give her much of a choice and she is living with it for now. I started my voice lessons and they are going well. She does know about them and I did ask her if she noticed my voice change. She kind of said Yes with an eye roll. Right now I can't give up I know I need more.
Julie
Quote from: mac1 on April 15, 2018, 05:44:54 PM
However, I have to find some way to make progress and get her acceptance.
If you figure out how to do both, you need to write a book because it would sell well. LOL
Seriously, I've working on the model that I need to progress with or without her acceptance. So I'm moving forward it's just the guilt and hurt I'm causing her is something that is torturing me. But I was a mess two years ago and I can't go back to that.
Julie
Quote from: Donna on April 15, 2018, 05:58:02 PM
My wife also has the lesbian appearance issue but is opening up more and more all the time. I am out to everyone and living full time female now. Going out together with Donna has not happened yet but will soon. Tiny steps forward for now and the major hurdles will fall.
Donna, good for you. Wow your tiny steps have come pretty fast. I'm so happy (and jealous) for you.
Thanks Julia. My therapist said the same thing. Lol
That's just me, it took me 60 years to get here so no sense going slow. Like I have choice. 💗😂💗
Julie, You might be able to do it—be yourself and stay married. I'm sure that you understand that you are asking her for "more than she bargained for," really changing the deal, and she may decide not to take it. Being trans is full of so much loss. While these exciting doors open, other doors often slam shut and people get hurt. Which isn't a reason not to go ahead—my point is more about being sensitive to her feelings and being willing to accept the loss of the marriage as a cost of your transition. Some trans women get both, their feminine self and the female partner they had before they transitioned. I hope you can do it, but it is really up to her, and maybe up to how sensitively you handle it. Jenny Boylan has seemed to pull it off, for example—some people do.
Since I didn't come to terms with my dysphoria and gender identity unti mid-life, I already had teenage children that it also would have impacted. Again, best of luck to you. You are a pretty gal. Nancy
Julie,
Your story mirrors my own in many ways. I have been moving slowly, six years, toward a transition state that is short of what I really want but enough for me to be content, I hope. It has been very much against my wife's wishes but we have moved at a rate that accommodates my wife's limits at the time. I do not have the added complication of grandchildren nor do I have close and important relationships with my family or my wife's family. That would greatly add to the stakes.
Compromise is valid and honorable. In a compromise, you both get what it is you most need. Sometimes, though, there is no solution that gives both parties their most important needs. Then the choice become capitulation, or a parting of the ways. In the end, capitulation leaves someone unfulfilled and possibly resentful. Not a good prospect. A parting of the ways does have the advantage that both parties can find the fulfillment of their needs by other means.
Try to assess what your essential needs are as well as her essential needs. Is there a union of those two sets that can be used to come to a compromise?
Be as patient as you can. It may work out for you. I hope it does. Good luck to both of us.
Stevi
Nancy,
I'm trying to be patient and I feel guilty everyday for putting her in the position she is in. I'm trying to balance some of each of me because I love and care for my wife. I just get frustrated at times when she doesn't want to deal with any of it. (which sounds selfish on my part) Reading about and knowing a lot of women on FB, I totally understand the hurt that this path can take. A lot of marriages break up because of what a lot of us ask of our wives.
My kids are older and out of the house and I think I did a good job of being a good dad and husband. Like I have said before I don't want to wake up and regret that I didn't try and make ME happy. (again, I understand that is a selfish position and my wife didn't ask for it.)
Thanks for the feedback.
Julie
Quote from: Stevi on April 16, 2018, 02:21:44 PM
Be as patient as you can. It may work out for you. I hope it does. Good luck to both of us.
Stevi
Stevi, Yes, I've followed you on other threads and we have a lot of the same concerns. I'm being patient and trying really hard.
Agreed, good luck to both of us.
Julie
My wife and I had another of our talks tonight and it started out with her concerns and a little testy. This is good because nothing gets unsaid and we grow stronger from it. I actually admitted tonight that I really have know for way longer than I'd ever admit to that I am a female in the wrong body. This is something she admits to suspecting from day one with me. We are happy and cuddly tonight and still processing. It is unfortunate that it comes out as being selfish but it's better than just giving up on life. She is understanding that I need this for my happiness and that translates to a more caring and loving partner for her.
Quote from: Donna on April 16, 2018, 09:51:31 PM
My wife and I had another of our talks tonight and it started out with her concerns and a little testy. This is good because nothing gets unsaid and we grow stronger from it. I actually admitted tonight that I really have know for way longer than I'd ever admit to that I am a female in the wrong body. This is something she admits to suspecting from day one with me. We are happy and cuddly tonight and still processing. It is unfortunate that it comes out as being selfish but it's better than just giving up on life. She is understanding that I need this for my happiness and that translates to a more caring and loving partner for her.
It's so nice to read posts like this one. I wish I had an understanding and supportive partner like you do.
Enviado de meu Moto G (5) Plus usando Tapatalk
Hi Julie. I hope so much that you and your wife can find a way that makes you both happy. I know the pain of having to choose, and it's so so hard.I just thought I would add a happy example of a relationship working out, hopefully it can help give you a bit of hope.
I waited almost a full year after discovering that I was FTM before I told my partner (straight cis male) that I was trans. To be fair, he was immediately very supportive and kind, and wanted to work on ways that I could be happiest. However, over time as the reality of it set in, we became more and more worried about what our future was. We love each other very deeply, but he is a straight man, and there's no fault in him not being sure if he could love a man. What I eventually decided on was that I would not come out and not transition so that I wouldn't lose him.
That was around a year ago, and it's been incredibly hard. I've worked on coping mechanisms, and he's been faultlessly compassionate and understanding, but it's never been enough, and the sadness and yearning has been escalating more and more over time. He, rightfully, had a lot of fears: he worried about losing his family, his close friends. He worried that I would transition and he would no longer be attracted to me. We talked about it many times, but we could never really get somewhere that felt like a good answer.
Finally, after a long hard year in hiding, we've found a way that works for us. We're still making plans and deciding how we will approach things, but I will be able to come out publically - my partner wants me to be happy, and he has decided that he is fine with socially identifying as a man in love with a man. Whatever pushback we are going to face, we're going to muscle through it together. What we've realized is that our issues are much more centred around medical transition, and this is where I've learned that I am able to compromise. I won't be taking testosterone or pursuing surgeries, but I will be living as a man, and will be able to do other things to create the image of a male body. Top surgery may eventually be a possibility, and I'm hesitant about bottom surgery regardless.
Anyway, sorry, that's a long-winded response, but my point is that we felt like the situation was totally hopeless, and eventually we found a way. For us, it became a matter of breaking the entire matter down into pieces and addressing each one individually to see where we stood. He doesn't feel he could be attracted to a man with a penis, but is completely comfortable with a man with masculine features and presentation, etc etc. I feel that what you're up against is very difficult, since it is the general discomfort with the concept of "transness" itself that seems to be troubling your wife. But I truly hope that, over time, she'll be able to evaluate those feelings and find places where she's able to meet you in the middle. It worked for me, and I have faith that it can work for you. :)
If you don't mind me saying, my only concern from what you've said is that I feel that you are very conscious of what a hardship this is for your wife, but it comes across a bit as though she is not quite as cognisant of your feelings? It might just be me reading the situation wrong, but even though guilt is difficult to avoid, please don't feel as though you've done anything wrong! You are you, and you always have been - striving to find your happiness and peace within yourself is nothing to be ashamed of.
If there's one thing, in my opinion, that is entirely required to make a relationship survive, it's mutual respect. Each person needs to respect the other(s) truly and genuinely.
Quote from: Donna on April 16, 2018, 09:51:31 PM
My wife and I had another of our talks tonight and it started out with her concerns and a little testy. This is good because nothing gets unsaid and we grow stronger from it. I actually admitted tonight that I really have know for way longer than I'd ever admit to that I am a female in the wrong body. This is something she admits to suspecting from day one with me. We are happy and cuddly tonight and still processing. It is unfortunate that it comes out as being selfish but it's better than just giving up on life. She is understanding that I need this for my happiness and that translates to a more caring and loving partner for her.
One of the things that I find really hard for me is to start talking and telling her my feeling. I know it makes her sad and I don't want to hurt her more. I'm also scared for me to admit what I really want and maybe if I don't say it out loud I won't think about the future. I think my wife is very understanding and really hasn't objected to a lot of what I have done (HRT, laser, electrolysis) so I am very lucky she has stayed with me.
I told my wife about my cross-dressing when we first got engaged 30+ years ago. I told her that I didn't think it would be any more than that. But I knew it was more than just cross-dressing but how much more I really didn't know. About 15 years ago I told her that I just wasn't happy, something was wrong. (it wasn't her or our marriage, it wasn't our kids but I just felt so unhappy). About 8 years ago I finally admitted to myself that I need to explore the path to become a women and then I told my wife a few years ago that I was a women and wanted to keep going down the path. My wife does want me to be happy but we both know someone will be happy and someone may not be.
Sorry more than you wanted to know.
Julie
Adrian,
Thanks for those couple of posts back. Thank you for sharing your story. I think we all need a little luck and understanding to get through life and it looks like your partner is on board. I like what you said about breaking it down into smaller pieces. Maybe that would help to at least start on some things. I think one thing that may be hard for you is not starting on T. My happiness level went sky high when I started on HRT. Some was that yes I'm starting but even now after 14 months I'm just happy. I think I smile more than I ever have. At least more than in the past 10-15 years. Maybe T doesn't work the same way to help you mentally. One of the big things that is hard on my wife is the secret. I want to start telling but I think she doesn't want people to find out because she knows friend and family will be judging both of us. Especially her, "your husband does what", "why did you stay with him", etc... I'm starting to push her more into letting out the secret slowly and I'm hoping once that happen she'll feel better about "Trans". Me, I'm at that who cares what people think, I'm happy!!
About your second post. So when I wrote this post, that is how I was feeling. She doesn't take into account my feeling, what I want. She isn't working on getting comfortable with me outside the home. I have those moments of "hey, what about me". I try and do things in male mode that I know she likes and try and take into account her feeling, but I have in the last year said more and more. I need to be happy. If she doesn't want to come along for the ride I can't make her. Than the guilt starts in on me and I'm in that circle again. I'm working on trying to love me for me and not beat myself up so much.
Julie
Julie, starting the talks are the hardest part. I was given a talking guide by my therapist that gives some starting points. First and foremost is to be absolutely honest. You need to rebuild trust.
Second don't cut the other off while they talk and make sure your listening and not formulating an answer while the other is talking, you miss to much then.
Don't hide your feelings and make sure you both understand that comments are not a personal attack they are just your true feelings. Always leave a conversation fully concluded. If you need to stop talking or she does then you each have to respect that and don't push. Never leave a conversation angry with each other.
Let the conversation flow and follow its natural course. Don't try to steer it or each other will feel directed.
My wife and I have had some hugely emotional and deep reaching conversations and we can hug each other afterward in true loving and caring embraces. Make some compromises if you need to, they don't have to be major. Just understand that she has a huge pile dumped on her and you can only remove a tiny bit at a time.
You are getting a new life and she will feel she is loosing hers. Make sure she knows you are committed to your bond and life with her.
Believe me she will know if your not being honest about that. Talk about future steps as she was left out of the original ones. As best as you can let her know your direction and intentions, this is hard because each step opens a new one and you won't know where your going until it pops up. Put your thoughts on paper, they are easier to get out and then share them with her. It is a promise to her that these are your true thoughts and she will have them to reference later if she feels you have deceived her. DONT DO THAT.
We are not perfect and we are not at any sort of finish yet and may never be, but we are trying our best to make this all work.
We have family pressure which adds to our burden and we discuss that separately and calmly as it is hurtful to both of us and I really get wound up about the attitude of two people that I have treated descently for as long as I have known them. Be ready for that to pop into conversations as well.
Sorry this is so long. Lol
These are my methods and experience and others may be different.
Quote from: Donna on April 17, 2018, 09:03:45 PM
Julie, starting the talks are the hardest part. I was given a talking guide by my therapist that gives some starting points. First and foremost is to be absolutely honest. You need to rebuild trust.
Second don't cut the other off while they talk and make sure your listening and not formulating an answer while the other is talking, you miss to much then.
Don't hide your feelings and make sure you both understand that comments are not a personal attack they are just your true feelings. Always leave a conversation fully concluded. If you need to stop talking or she does then you each have to respect that and don't push. Never leave a conversation angry with each other.
Let the conversation flow and follow its natural course. Don't try to steer it or each other will feel directed.
My wife and I have had some hugely emotional and deep reaching conversations and we can hug each other afterward in true loving and caring embraces. Make some compromises if you need to, they don't have to be major. Just understand that she has a huge pile dumped on her and you can only remove a tiny bit at a time.
You are getting a new life and she will feel she is loosing hers. Make sure she knows you are committed to your bond and life with her.
Believe me she will know if your not being honest about that. Talk about future steps as she was left out of the original ones. As best as you can let her know your direction and intentions, this is hard because each step opens a new one and you won't know where your going until it pops up. Put your thoughts on paper, they are easier to get out and then share them with her. It is a promise to her that these are your true thoughts and she will have them to reference later if she feels you have deceived her. DONT DO THAT.
We are not perfect and we are not at any sort of finish yet and may never be, but we are trying our best to make this all work.
We have family pressure which adds to our burden and we discuss that separately and calmly as it is hurtful to both of us and I really get wound up about the attitude of two people that I have treated descently for as long as I have known them. Be ready for that to pop into conversations as well.
Sorry this is so long. Lol
These are my methods and experience and others may be different.
These are great tips. Thank you.
Even if only one item helps that great, or if it gives you a direction that great too.
I'm putting the pieces together one at a time and my mistakes and accomplishments
make me stronger and in a short time my wife has gone from a -10 on the acceptance level
to +3. We are a long way from ten as we are into the really tough items now.
Surgery desicions and how far is far enough. She is talking to a counselor now and that was a big move on her part.
Donna,
Thank you so much for sharing all that information. I'm going to start and hopefully it will slowly gets us on the right track together.
Julie