Okay so I've met this cis lesbian woman. She is totally into me but there is one tiny problem... she doesn't know that I'm trans, or that I'm pre-op.
Now, of course, I don't desire to have anything done to me below my belly button, but even with that being the case how well might she take it?
Obviously she's an individual person with her own thoughts and emotions and no one can truly predict what an individual will do in any given situation, but anyone here who has experience passing among lesbians or dating lesbians as trans women, how have you disclosed and how did it go? I have a feeling that lesbians will probably have more of a problem with my medical situation than straight men would... are my fears valid?
Help!
It really depends on the individual in question. The only way to approach this is honestly and openly, anything other than open communication is not going to end well. I've disclosed it upfront and if people are interested beyond that point then great, if not, no one gets hurt and that's that.
On a side note, I did get temporarily suspended a long while ago, while using the HER app so that was fun.
I wasn't misrepresenting myself, non-binary mtf.
99% of people don't want to date a transgender person. It's so much easier to make your status known than hide it and pray you get a 1% er who didn't mind you not trusting them despite YOU being the one keeping secrets. :-\
The only way to know for sure is to just tell her and see what happens. Even if you try to feel her out on trans issues before you tell her, her views on random trans people she's never met may be completely different from her views on you.
Quote from: Devlyn on May 10, 2018, 12:10:09 PM
99% of people don't want to date a transgender person.
Holy cow! You must be exhausted from the research associated with that statistic. ;D
My opinion is that a lesbian will want to know about being trans, and very likely about whether she is dating someone with a V or not.
QuoteHoly cow! You must be exhausted from the research associated with that statistic. ;D
87% of all statistics are made up. ;)
Quote from: ainsley on May 10, 2018, 01:10:12 PM
Holy cow! You must be exhausted from the research associated with that statistic. ;D
My opinion is that a lesbian will want to know about being trans, and very likely about whether she is dating someone with a V or not.
Quote from: AnneK on May 10, 2018, 01:27:33 PM
87% of all statistics are made up. ;)
Scoff if you must, but it IS hard work making up these statistics. :laugh:
Quote from: Devlyn on May 10, 2018, 01:51:06 PM
Scoff if you must, but it IS hard work making up these statistics. :laugh:
Thank you for your service. :eusa_clap:
Yeah the 99% sounds extremely exaggerated. I'm passing so dating is not difficult for me at all... mostly. My hope is that if she knows me as a person more then perhaps she'll be ok with not having access to that part of my body.
I'm trying to figure out a way of wording it too because I honest to gosh feel that "trans" is such an ugly word and people hate hearing it...
"Genital deformity" is being considered...
I'm curious what everyone thinks the "Oh, you're a girl with a penis, I completely accept that" rate is? I'm guessing my 99% number isn't far off.
Quote from: Devlyn on May 10, 2018, 03:05:59 PM
I'm curious what everyone thinks the "Oh, you're a girl with a penis, I completely accept that" rate is? I'm guessing my 99% number isn't far off.
I think beyond ->-bleeped-<-s not too many. But hey there are a lot of people in the world so there are surely some out there.
So i looked up one source: 83-87% of people wouldn't consider dating a transgender person.
I am in two closed lesbian groups on FB (one has 35k members and the other has 45K members) and they both are inclusive of trans women. Multiple times there have been posts about whether a cis female would be in a relationship with a trans female and I was surprised by the level of acceptance. Granted, many of them said yes with the caveat of post-op for SRS (vaginoplasty). But a lot were open to it without surgery. I do not have numbers for you, Devlyn, so I expect you to expand your research to the FB platform and report back. :)
No, I deleted my Facebook account a month or two ago. Best thing I ever did.
Quote from: Devlyn on May 10, 2018, 03:20:00 PM
No, I deleted my Facebook account a month or two ago. Best thing I ever did.
Yes, I should, too. I have mine so locked down and limited at this point, I may as well. lol
Quote from: krobinson103 on May 10, 2018, 03:11:52 PM
I think beyond ->-bleeped-<-s not too many. But hey there are a lot of people in the world so there are surely some out there.
When you give someone an unwanted label like ->-bleeped-<-, you're dehumanizing them, just like people do to us when they call us "->-bleeped-<-". It bothers me when our community uses the same tactics that are used against us.
We reserve the right to land wherever we want on the gender spectrum. Let's not judge others based on their attractions.
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn on May 10, 2018, 03:26:24 PM
When you give someone an unwanted label like ->-bleeped-<-, you're dehumanizing them, just like people do to us when they call us "->-bleeped-<-". It bothers me when our community uses the same tactics that are used against us.
We reserve the right to land wherever we want on the gender spectrum. Let's not judge others based on their attractions.
Hugs, Devlyn
What I dislike about "->-bleeped-<-s" has been their blatant disregard for my feelings towards my own genitalia. I say "no don't touch me there" and they tell me "oh I accept you for who your are it's ok"...
No means no. They don't even have to be fetishists, they can just be queer cis men.
This is why I'm no longer dating any queer cis men.
Quote from: nightingale95 on May 10, 2018, 03:02:16 PM
I'm trying to figure out a way of wording it too because I honest to gosh feel that "trans" is such an ugly word and people hate hearing it...
"Genital deformity" is being considered...
I'm not sure that I'd agree that "genital deformity" is an improvement over "trans"... :o
However, the main thing I would worry about with that plan is being seen as deceptive. I'm not sure most cis people are going to hear "genital deformity" and associate that with "my vagina is actually a penis".
Quote from: nightingale95 on May 10, 2018, 12:02:09 PM
Okay so I've met this cis lesbian woman. She is totally into me but there is one tiny problem... she doesn't know that I'm trans, or that I'm pre-op.
Now, of course, I don't desire to have anything done to me below my belly button, but even with that being the case how well might she take it?
Obviously she's an individual person with her own thoughts and emotions and no one can truly predict what an individual will do in any given situation, but anyone here who has experience passing among lesbians or dating lesbians as trans women, how have you disclosed and how did it go? I have a feeling that lesbians will probably have more of a problem with my medical situation than straight men would... are my fears valid?
Help!
I don't have any experience dating cis lesbians, but from the various posts I have read on this site, a lot of trans lesbians have a difficult time trying to date them, especially if they are pre op, but as you stated, the person you are interested in is "an individual person, with her own thoughts and emotions.", so she may accept you as you are, and if she doesn't, then there surely will be someone who will, just keep trying. Anyway, let your love interest know you are trans and pre op, and see how it goes. Best wishes 😊
Ok but pre-op issues aside, I'm also passing. Full stealth mode. Dating lesbians as a non-passing trans woman is a far different experience. Are there any passing trans lesbiams that can offer advice?
Quote from: nightingale95 on May 10, 2018, 10:24:06 PM
Ok but pre-op issues aside, I'm also passing. Full stealth mode. Dating lesbians as a non-passing trans woman is a far different experience. Are there any passing trans lesbiams that can offer advice?
Why do you assume I don't pass, and how do we know you do, most of the time the full stealth mode passing claim doesn't come with a picture, and it's too easy to say I don't post photos, because I'm stealth.
Quote from: Devlyn on May 10, 2018, 03:26:24 PM
When you give someone an unwanted label like ->-bleeped-<-, you're dehumanizing them, just like people do to us when they call us "->-bleeped-<-". It bothers me when our community uses the same tactics that are used against us.
We reserve the right to land wherever we want on the gender spectrum. Let's not judge others based on their attractions.
Hugs, Devlyn
I have never given anyone an unearned label of "->-bleeped-<-" that would be rude, I have told one if he came around to my place of work again his wife would get all the copies of texts and emails he sent. He has haunted the parking lot a work a few times. So very happy I am on good terms with the local patrol officers, they had a nice talk with him and did not need to inform his wife.
Nightingale, nevermind passable/passing (I don't), most if the lesbian women I know are quite accepting of me as female and I'm dating a couple presently. The degree of acceptance I get is better than with straight women (even those you'd call supporters). I think this is because the lesbian community and women's movement generally has realized a couple of things -- we experience a lot of the same problems and it turns out we're useful allies.
On a strictly personal level I experience this among my (now many) lesbian friends in that when we talk, I don't feel much friction in the conversations. Sure, fewer want to date me than cis women and that's ok also.
Also most of the queer women I know personally have at one time or another identified as any of straight, bi, pansexual, homoflexible etc.
I can only say I think you would do well to simply be direct, make it clear you reciprocate her attraction and let her know you're pre-op, see how it goes from there.
Quote from: nightingale95 on May 10, 2018, 10:24:06 PM
Ok but pre-op issues aside, I'm also passing. Full stealth mode. Dating lesbians as a non-passing trans woman is a far different experience. Are there any passing trans lesbiams that can offer advice?
In my opinion, you should still be honest and upfront about it regardless of passing/stealth mode. I understand it gets tricky with outing yourself as trans but you're pursuing people for potential romantic reasons so if they can't accept the reality upfront, why would you hide who you are in the hopes that down the line they will be more accepting?
You would be wasting your time and ultimately exposing yourself to needless heartache.
Quote from: skullsquid on May 11, 2018, 12:33:38 PM
In my opinion, you should still be honest and upfront about it regardless of passing/stealth mode. I understand it gets tricky with outing yourself as trans but you're pursuing people for potential romantic reasons so if they can't accept the reality upfront, why would you hide who you are in the hopes that down the line they will be more accepting?
You would be wasting your time and ultimately exposing yourself to needless heartache.
My hope is that telling her later will at least demonstrate that I'm not a creepy stereotype. That I'm no different than any other woman I just have a birth defect that limits what we can donin the bedroom (and I will emphasize the fact that no I will not allow her to touch me below my belly button).
Quote from: nightingale95 on May 11, 2018, 01:09:31 PM
My hope is that telling her later will at least demonstrate that I'm not a creepy stereotype. That I'm no different than any other woman I just have a birth defect that limits what we can donin the bedroom (and I will emphasize the fact that no I will not allow her to touch me below my belly button).
What 'creepy stereotype' are you referring to?
Wouldn't she question the reasoning behind not wanting to be touched below the belly button? There aren't very many reasons to justify it.
I'm refraining from using deception to describe this but you are still omitting things from someone. Essentially entering into something that is not necessarily consensual from the other party's perspective because you are not telling them everything about yourself.
Ultimately, you should do what you think is right for you.
She may consider lying by omission in order to get what you want, and therefore putting your needs before hers, to be very deceptive, and creepy behavior. And the whole not touching below the belly button policy is probably way more baggage than most people want to take on. Why get involved with someone if you are not comfortable with yourself? Perhaps it would be in your best interest to wait until you have SRS before you start dating; and even then, my personal philosophy is that prospective romantic partners still have a right to know your past, so they can make up their own mind.
Quote from: MissyMay2.0 on May 11, 2018, 01:34:09 PM
She may consider lying by omission in order to get what you want, and therefore putting your needs before hers, to be very deceptive, and creepy behavior. And the whole not touching below the belly button policy is probably way more baggage than most people want to take on. Why get involved with someone if you are not comfortable with yourself? Perhaps it would be in your best interest to wait until you have SRS before you start dating; and even then, my personal philosophy is that prospective romantic partners still have a right to know your past, so they can make up their own mind.
The "no touching" thing comes after I've already told her...
I'm not going to carry the lie into the bedroom.
But am I not supposed to be a woman? Is it lying to say I am one? Because what I'm hearing is "you're really a man and you should tell her that."
Just to throw a twist into the conversation, but what if she was a passing pre-op trans woman too!
Just my opinion on the topic, if you're just hanging out with friends and being flirty there's no need to disclose. But if there's one on one time, like a date, where there's a chance if intimacy, then you might want to bring it up. Relationships are a two way street and you can't keep the truth from her in fear of a negative reaction. Yes, you are a woman with "the wrong plumbing", but if she's not accepting of it, you can't make her be accepting.
Personally, I'm not even considering a relationship at this early point of my transition. I don't pass, probably never will. (I wish I had your dilemmas.) I just don't feel I can give a relationship effort when I'm too busy trying to fix all my broken parts.
Quote from: StacyRenee on May 11, 2018, 04:54:01 PM
Just to throw a twist into the conversation, but what if she was a passing pre-op trans woman too!
Just my opinion on the topic, if you're just hanging out with friends and being flirty there's no need to disclose. But if there's one on one time, like a date, where there's a chance if intimacy, then you might want to bring it up. Relationships are a two way street and you can't keep the truth from her in fear of a negative reaction. Yes, you are a woman with "the wrong plumbing", but if she's not accepting of it, you can't make her be accepting.
Personally, I'm not even considering a relationship at this early point of my transition. I don't pass, probably never will. (I wish I had your dilemmas.) I just don't feel I can give a relationship effort when I'm too busy trying to fix all my broken parts.
I wouldn't say no to that scenario to be honest. At least there would be plenty of common ground...
Hi Nightingale,
I pass, and I have had some dating experience with cis-lesbians. I got a number of dates, but never a second one after disclosing I was a post-op transgender. This was on match.com.
On the advice of one of my dates, who ended up being a really good friend, I changed my profile to disclose my status right up front. It definitely cut down the number of women who contacted me.
I am currently seeing a cis-lesbian who accepts me for who I am. In my opinion, you can't build a relationship without trust, and I personally would feel dishonest about going stealth beyond the first date. If the situation were reversed I would feel put off by their lack of candor. Not that I wouldn't accept being with a trans woman, that would depend strictly on the person, but I want to choose for myself who I invest my time and my heart in, rather than "Oh, I see. What else haven't you told me?"
With kindness,
Terri
One more comment:
Quote from: nightingale95 on May 11, 2018, 02:02:21 PM
But am I not supposed to be a woman? Is it lying to say I am one? Because what I'm hearing is "you're really a man and you should tell her that."
This is not so much about you or the validity of your gender identity as it is about respecting the choices and opinions of others. A consensual relationship is just that. You have to both want to be in it. It's for your potential partner to say if she feels comfortable with you being a trans woman, and with "the wrong plumbing" at that. The few cis-lesbians I have had the opportunity to talk to about this issue are really turned off by male genitalia.
On a more positive note, all the cis-lesbians I have met have been very supportive of me as a trans woman, and very inclusive in their social circles. I'm not saying they would all jump into bed with me, but they have been quite accepting.
With kindness,
Terri
Quote from: Maybebaby56 on May 12, 2018, 01:35:03 PM
One more comment:
This is not so much about you or the validity of your gender identity as it is about respecting the choices and opinions of others. A consensual relationship is just that. You have to both want to be in it. It's for your potential partner to say if she feels comfortable with you being a trans woman, and with "the wrong plumbing" at that. The few cis-lesbians I have had the opportunity to talk to about this issue are really turned off by male genitalia.
On a more positive note, all the cis-lesbians I have met have been very supportive of me as a trans woman, and very inclusive in their social circles. I'm not saying they would all jump into bed with me, but they have been quite accepting.
With kindness,
Terri
Ok but we're getting off topic...
1.) I do not use my genitalia in any way for sex. No one touches it. Not me, not my partner. No one. It is a non-factor. Underwear never comes off and it is bound so tight so as to make physical arousal impossible. Please do not assume that I want anyone touching me there. I am having SRS for a reason. Were she willing to do things with my genitalia, it would be a turn off. This has happened before and I am repulsed by such people (often queer men) because they have NO respect for my body or boundaries.
2.) That being established, I am asking about lesbians' general perception of passing trans women as sexual partners (given that the trans woman's genitalia is OFF LIMITS to the lesbian).
I was pretty 'wet behind the ears' for lack of a better word. Just changed my name, just had downstairs surgery, maybe not the most feminine wiles at the time.. Went to a gay bar in both Omaha first, then Sioux Falls SD..
My experiences were the gay guys treated me like I was made of kryptonite & they were superman. They had absolutely NO interest in me whatsoever.. whereas I was hit on by quite a few of the lesbians. To my irritation at the time, they were generally the 'dyke' category, as in not the most attractive, but obviously cliche lesbians. Some quite a bit older than me at the time too (not too surprising honestly).
I still get hit on time to time by women, men, and even the rare bi guy. Keep in mind I'm 100% me.. I don't call it 'stealth' because we all hide things from others.. pft. I just don't wear a flag & wave for all to see. I present as female, and am accepted as such.
I've had no issues with lesbians at least in the casual sense at all. I even told one of them, and she was cool with it. I think if you're cute enough and girl enough that's what they're into anyways.
Quote from: nightingale95 on May 12, 2018, 04:22:14 PM
Ok but we're getting off topic...
1.) I do not use my genitalia in any way for sex. No one touches it. Not me, not my partner. No one. It is a non-factor. Underwear never comes off and it is bound so tight so as to make physical arousal impossible. Please do not assume that I want anyone touching me there. I am having SRS for a reason. Were she willing to do things with my genitalia, it would be a turn off. This has happened before and I am repulsed by such people (often queer men) because they have NO respect for my body or boundaries.
You can hide them, you can refuse to allow touching, but if your partner is not comfortable with them there, why should she participate? And she should know the truth, in order to make an informed choice. "Genital deformity" is a lie, relationships based on lies never go well.
Quote2.) That being established, I am asking about lesbians' general perception of passing trans women as sexual partners (given that the trans woman's genitalia is OFF LIMITS to the lesbian).
I've had no issues with cis lesbians as far as acceptance and friendship goes. Intimate relationships are a little trickier. Age seems to be a factor in whether they would sleep with me or not - seems the younger women are more OK with the idea than the older women, cutoff seems to be somewhere around 30.
Honestly, I don't think you are actually quite ready for dating, nightingale95, as you seem to think starting things with deception or lies of omission is OK.. It's no place to build a relationship.
I'm a big proponent of taking a very straight forward approach. I mean, when I came out on facebook, the first line was "For X number of months I've been taking estrogen and a testosterone blocker to transition."
So my advice is to say:
1. I have a penis.
2. I plan to have GCS
3. I have no interest in you touching my penis in the meantime.
Honestly, it doesn't matter what the general perception of cis lesbians is. There's no use worrying about it, either she will be cool with it or she won't. I think if you put it off for long enough she'll view you as deceptive whether that's your intent or not.