A question for y'all:
If I were to go in to see a FFS surgeon purely for the sake of assessing my need for FFS (that is, whether or not FFS is medically necessary in order to give my face biologically female-proportions) would they be honest with me? Or would they tell me, "Yes, you need it" purely for the sake of getting me to give them my money?
I'm wary of plastic surgeons and I have the sinking feeling that they will use my insecurities against me in order to get me under their knife, much like they would a cis woman who is upset about some facial feature.
There is a wide range of facial structures a cis female can have. I have studied many and while believe I am in league with many of them (and even more feminine than some), I am plagued by droves of trans-peers that are undergoing this surgery and coming out looking like supermodels and I'm left feeling rather plain in comparison... like I'm Molly Ringwald and they're all Samantha Fox. (Fall Out Boy reference, I apologize lol)
I don't know, I think if I at least had a surgeon say, "My gosh, you're fine" I would be more at ease. I know cis women than envy my looks and straight men that think I am very attractive, but it's not enough to quell the dysphoria... (or is it dysmorphia?)
So are they honest or do they just want my business?
The doctors seem to be pretty honest about it from what I have seen. Some doctors turn down requests for revisions because they feel there isn't a need and often they feel features are minor enough that they don't need to be addressed. It is a good idea to see several surgeons because opinions between doctors vary then take what you learned and see if it agrees with your opinion. There was a thread I was going to link to about this topic however it has been removed so you can no longer view it.
I have thought about the same thing. I went in for a consult with thoughts of what I wanted done and ended up talking about lipo and BA before the end. It is not that I do not wish to have these procedures, but I was only their for and FFS consult. To be fair, the surgeon is specifically focused on whole body plastic surgery and was honest about everything we discussed.
I have spoken with a few sisters about their cosmetic surgeons and only one seems to have had an issue with being told she needed work that she did not agree with.
If you are at the point of sitting with your surgeon and they are willing to discuss a larger package of procedures on the same consult fee...take advantage of it! You are not required to agree to anything other than what you want...but info is queen and also you can likely qualify for a discount with that surgeon later when you do want the extra work done.
I think that the primary objective of FFS is for us to look like we would have looked if testosterone did not masculinize our bone structure; and beautification is secondary, because after surgery we're stiil going to resemble how we looked before surgery, but more feminine, but if you were attractive with some feminine features before surgery, then you have a better chance of being prettier after FFS. My surgeon based his recommendations on x-rays, facial measurements; and his aesthetic evaluation (based on many years of experience) of what I needed. So, with this type of consultation, you can see the objective data, the surgeon is basing their opinion on, and fully understand the surgeon's reasons for recommending various procedures. I had FFS because I needed it, if I didn't feel that I absolutely needed it, then I would not have even schuduled a consultation.
All doctors will have their opinions that's why another opinion is something that should be a no brainer. Since most the consultations are free that I have observed it would be foolish not take advantage of that.
Most do remote consultation via Skype.
I know someone who went for a FFS assessment with facial team from Spain and was told that they didn't need any FFS.
I've had consultations for other surgery, and never found that the did anything more than honestly assess me
Em x
I don't think it's good to go in thinking they just want your money. In my opinion, you have to go in knowing what you want and be realistic. If they tell you that you don't need anything than consider yourself lucky. It sounds like you already pass and just need added confirmation from a surgeon?
In my case, had I not broken my nose I probably wouldn't consider ffs for another 2 years. I'm hoping to start consults soon and I'm not a year yet. I know areas I'm insecure about are my droopy nose, brow bossing, ears and chin.
Feel free to share pics and I don't mind letting you know if you need anything. I've had people in person tell me I don't need anything and that I would change the way I look. Well I don't want a smaller nose I just prefer the tip of my nose to NOT touch my upper lip...
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I have had a surgeon tell me he won't do a lip lift cause he doesn't see the need, he said it's not worth it for the scar it will create. Most of them are after good looking results because it represents them, they're not just money hungry. Besides, they can make more money in the long-term by being honest and not overdoing procedures, as it means a better reputation and therefore higher demand.
Quote from: Allison S on June 03, 2018, 08:10:02 PM
I don't think it's good to go in thinking they just want your money. In my opinion, you have to go in knowing what you want and be realistic. If they tell you that you don't need anything than consider yourself lucky. It sounds like you already pass and just need added confirmation from a surgeon?
In my case, had I not broken my nose I probably wouldn't consider ffs for another 2 years. I'm hoping to start consults soon and I'm not a year yet. I know areas I'm insecure about are my droopy nose, brow bossing, ears and chin.
Feel free to share pics and I don't mind letting you know if you need anything. I've had people in person tell me I don't need anything and that I would change the way I look. Well I don't want a smaller nose I just prefer the tip of my nose to NOT touch my upper lip...
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I know it's rather cynical of me but I just have concerns and frankly I'm afraid of what I might hear...
https://imgur.com/HIjIHr7
https://imgur.com/PBA4PAr
https://imgur.com/cX27UVL
https://imgur.com/Oqli47t
https://imgur.com/lZrue4M
https://imgur.com/LJ9ecFA
https://imgur.com/kpfyNvR
https://imgur.com/rKAepRc
https://imgur.com/KKrP80H
^^^Some shots of me from different angles. I know that it's hard to assess something's true form in two dimensions, hope this paints a somewhat-accurate picture...
I've heard varied stories from different surgeons. One refused to do FFS because he said she didn't need it. Facial Team have a reputation for being conservative. Another has a reputation for recommending everything.
If you're concerned I think you need to research the surgeons you're consulting in detail.
Quote from: nightingale95 on June 04, 2018, 01:31:24 AM
I know it's rather cynical of me but I just have concerns and frankly I'm afraid of what I might hear...
https://imgur.com/HIjIHr7
https://imgur.com/PBA4PAr
https://imgur.com/cX27UVL
https://imgur.com/Oqli47t
https://imgur.com/lZrue4M
https://imgur.com/LJ9ecFA
https://imgur.com/kpfyNvR
https://imgur.com/rKAepRc
https://imgur.com/KKrP80H
^^^Some shots of me from different angles. I know that it's hard to assess something's true form in two dimensions, hope this paints a somewhat-accurate picture...
OMG !!!
Don't let any surgeon touch your face. You are near female perfection right now. FFS is really a benefit for us older transitioners. Almost everyone your age does not need and should not have most FFS procedures.
The only thing you might consider is some laser skin smoothing on the acne scars on your cheeks. Other than that, the only thing any surgery will give you are more scars on your face. FFS can hide the scars very well, but they will definitely be there.
How long have you been on hrt? I agree that you're young and should do as little as possible, if anything at all.
I don't see any masculine feature. The only thing I would recommend is upper lip augmentation either injections or implant.
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Btw you're already hot, anything extra will only be added tweaks. Good luck love.
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Quote from: Dani on June 04, 2018, 05:47:41 AM
OMG !!!
Don't let any surgeon touch your face. You are near female perfection right now.
^^^^ This, definitely!! You totally don't need surgery. You have a very pretty, nicely proportioned face.
Quote from: Allison S on June 04, 2018, 06:39:57 AM
How long have you been on hrt? I agree that you're young and should do as little as possible, if anything at all.
I don't see any masculine feature. The only thing I would recommend is upper lip augmentation either injections or implant.
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Two years and six months on HRT.
What makes me self-conscious is my frontal sinus is a wee bit large in my opinion so it makes my forehead poke out a bit.
Quote from: nightingale95 on June 04, 2018, 08:49:58 AM
Two years and six months on HRT.
What makes me self-conscious is my frontal sinus is a wee bit large in my opinion so it makes my forehead poke out a bit.
I noticed the frontal sinus area, but only because your nasal radix is a little low, but from your pictures your overall facial structure is quite feminine, the only other thing that I kind of noticed was the angle of your nasal tip.
Quote from: MissyMay2.0 on June 04, 2018, 10:02:37 AM
I noticed the frontal sinus area, but only because your nasal radix is a little low, but from your pictures your overall facial structure is quite feminine, the only other thing that I kind of noticed was the angle of your nasal tip.
Lol you're going to have to translate that for me into lay-people-speak.
Quote from: nightingale95 on June 04, 2018, 08:49:58 AM
Two years and six months on HRT.
What makes me self-conscious is my frontal sinus is a wee bit large in my opinion so it makes my forehead poke out a bit.
Hi Nightingale,
Your features are well within the female norm. FFS would be a waste of money. You're already gorgeous.
~Terri
Save your money. There is nothing male in your face. I think your lips are beautiful.
Take a bit of the money saved and go shopping!
Judi
I guess most of my insecurity stems from the beautiful faces that the women I have seen get FFS come out with (YouTubers, mostly: Stef Sanjati, Riley Dennis, Gigi Gorgeous and Blaire White). All of them transitioned in their mid-twenties though (later than I did) and did have some very masculine facial features, but now they look flawless and even though my face isn't masculine I wish I looked like them...
But, maybe that's the trade-off: they had to pay to have those surgeries done and endure the healing process, so it's a blessing I don't have to go through the same ordeal for a similar result.
Quote from: nightingale95 on June 04, 2018, 08:49:58 AM
Two years and six months on HRT.
What makes me self-conscious is my frontal sinus is a wee bit large in my opinion so it makes my forehead poke out a bit.
I was going to say the only thing I could see benefiting you is a forehead reconstruction. You are so pretty already.
Quote from: Ellement_of_Freedom on June 04, 2018, 10:35:16 PM
I was going to say the only thing I could see benefiting you is a forehead reconstruction. You are so pretty already.
But would that be more cosmetic though rather than a necessity for a female face?
I can tolerate facial flaws so long they don't read male.
Quote from: nightingale95 on June 04, 2018, 10:44:30 PM
But would that be more cosmetic though rather than a necessity for a female face?
I can tolerate facial flaws so long they don't read male.
In my opinion it wouldn't be cosmetic. I think the benefit would be seen with your orbital rims especially. I hope I'm not too outspoken on this. I'm also wary that I have a trained eye after doing so much research into FFS, so things I notice probably wouldn't be noticed by a lot of other people. Ultimately it's how you feel when you look in the mirror that should dictate your choice. You are already beautiful, you don't need anything that's purely a "cosmetic" procedure.
Quote from: Ellement_of_Freedom on June 04, 2018, 10:54:50 PM
In my opinion it wouldn't be cosmetic. I think the benefit would be seen with your orbital rims especially. I hope I'm not too outspoken on this. I'm also wary that I have a trained eye after doing so much research into FFS, so things I notice probably wouldn't be noticed by a lot of other people. Ultimately it's how you feel when you look in the mirror that should dictate your choice. You are already beautiful, you don't need anything that's purely a "cosmetic" procedure.
I've trained my eye to notice things like this too, but even just on cis women I do it.
Women like Imogen Heap, Chloe Sevigny and Megan Ellison (you can google them) seem to have similar forehead shapes to mine. It's when I look at women like that I think maybe I'm being overly-critical of myself.
Quote from: nightingale95 on June 04, 2018, 11:16:17 PM
I've trained my eye to notice things like this too, but even just on cis women I do it.
Women like Imogen Heap, Chloe Sevigny and Megan Ellison (you can google them) seem to have similar forehead shapes to mine. It's when I look at women like that I think maybe I'm being overly-critical of myself.
We can be our own worst critic sometimes... I need to remember that myself. I guess after being in the wrong body for so long we strive to make everything as perfect as possible to make up for what we missed and what we will never have...for me the most triggering is not being able to get pregnant naturally... it's like, well, I may not ever be able to give birth like some of those women but at least I can be as pretty if not prettier than them. Probably not the most healthy way of thinking really, it's a really dysphoric and difficult habit to get out of.
Let me be honest. You are in the female range. BUT: the angle between your nose and forehead is in the male range. You can fix this with nasal radix implant or with type 3 forehead reconstruction. You need orbital rims shave. Also the chin could be reduced for more feminine looks. Lip lift or lip implant woilr be only beautifying surgery in my opinion.
Lips are windows to the soul [emoji6]
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Quote from: reborn on June 05, 2018, 10:02:50 AM
Let me be honest. You are in the female range. BUT: the angle between your nose and forehead is in the male range. You can fix this with nasal radix implant or with type 3 forehead reconstruction. You need orbital rims shave. Also the chin could be reduced for more feminine looks. Lip lift or lip implant woilr be only beautifying surgery in my opinion.
Thank you for your input! :)
I'll consider doing something about my nasal radix if I can find a way to doing it that is non-invasive (injections, perhaps?). After some soul-searching though I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather not go under the knife for my face, and any facial feminization that requires shaving may mess up my facial proportions (especially when compared to my body overall) and put me somewhere in the uncanny valley. Some androgyny isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if I'm already leaning towards female as is.
Quote from: nightingale95 on June 05, 2018, 01:08:18 PM
Thank you for your input! :)
I'll consider doing something about my nasal radix if I can find a way to doing it that is non-invasive (injections, perhaps?). After some soul-searching though I've come to the conclusion that I'd rather not go under the knife for my face, and any facial feminization that requires shaving may mess up my facial proportions (especially when compared to my body overall) and put me somewhere in the uncanny valley. Some androgyny isn't necessarily a bad thing, especially if I'm already leaning towards female as is.
That can easily be fixed with injections.
Quote from: Allison S on June 05, 2018, 12:40:29 PM
Lips are windows to the soul [emoji6]
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...And to keep pie from falling out😀
I think in most of the pictures you look beautiful and feminine. So I think a FFS is not needed.
That said, I understand fully if you are bugged by some things - maybe minute things that could be improved, that are androgynous and so its basically up to you if you want to takt the financial expense and surgery risks.
This one is the only one I would say some things might be seen:
(https://imgur.com/kpfyNvR.jpg)
In that one I could see some benefit from hairline change at the temples, some change of the forehead and orbitals - but its more an option rather than a need. I was the same - I had some things i considered masculine and "flaws" and others did not see them, said I dont need FFS and so on. Eventually i still had them done, hopefully it was a good choice. Its just been 3 months, so healing is still going on...
In the end it probably was a bit cosmetic. I was "passing" before, not stared at, not misgendered etc. I transitioned in my early to mid twenties and was lucky - that was in the late 1990ies and FFS was not available. So I could not have done it then. Now I could afford it and since I am now over 40, I felt it helps because I perceived my face to get a bit more masculine with age, bone structure showing more as the soft tissue looses it youthful femininity...
I dont post pictures publicly though, if you are interesed I can show via private MSG
Quote from: anjaq on June 06, 2018, 06:21:46 PM
I think in most of the pictures you look beautiful and feminine. So I think a FFS is not needed.
That said, I understand fully if you are bugged by some things - maybe minute things that could be improved, that are androgynous and so its basically up to you if you want to takt the financial expense and surgery risks.
This one is the only one I would say some things might be seen:
(https://imgur.com/kpfyNvR.jpg)
In that one I could see some benefit from hairline change at the temples, some change of the forehead and orbitals - but its more an option rather than a need. I was the same - I had some things i considered masculine and "flaws" and others did not see them, said I dont need FFS and so on. Eventually i still had them done, hopefully it was a good choice. Its just been 3 months, so healing is still going on...
In the end it probably was a bit cosmetic. I was "passing" before, not stared at, not misgendered etc. I transitioned in my early to mid twenties and was lucky - that was in the late 1990ies and FFS was not available. So I could not have done it then. Now I could afford it and since I am now over 40, I felt it helps because I perceived my face to get a bit more masculine with age, bone structure showing more as the soft tissue looses it youthful femininity...
I dont post pictures publicly though, if you are interesed I can show via private MSG
My hairline is only receded on that one side. The other side is perfectly feminine. I don't mind that minor flaw since it is usually covered by hair.
I did send you a message! Hope to hear back from you soon! I very much appreciate your input.
My insecurities surrounding my face seem to be no different that those a cis woman would have. I think the fact that I am a transsexual causes me to be more upset about them than if I had been born female, and the perceived widespread popularity of FFS among others causes me to feel like it is a necessary step to transitioning, even when it is not.
Seems like you have made up your mind, and your opinion is the most important. As long as you're happy that is what matters. It's a great mindset to have.