Hi Gals,
So today marks 4.5mths on hormones :D but it's raising quite a bit of anxiety about things not progressing far enough... I'm sure this is no surprise most of you haha.
Lately it's centred around my shoulders which I believe are kinda broad but I'm never really sure of myself... how can you tell if your shoulders are broad? Did HRT help you girls with broader shoulders at all? In what ways? Ugh I'm really hoping for some changes there but I keep hearing it's mostly bone which I mean makes sense.
If it helps I started HRT in the first month of being 25.
Thanks!!
Were you working out your upper body a lot before? Were you involved in athletics that involved upper body strength? If so then you may be able to lose some. If not then you probably don't have much to lose.
Also, unless you were really into bodybuilding your shoulders themselves are likely not a big problem. You can build up your butt, hips, and thighs to balance it all out.
And lastly, not all women have emaciated shoulders.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdujZau37kQ
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The problem isn't so much how broad your shoulders are, it's how your shoulder width relates to your hip width. I've seen cis women with very wide shoulders, water polo players for example. In most women the shoulder width is equal or less than the hip width, but that IS most women. Plenty of women have wider shoulders than hips.
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
I have lost a LOT of shoulder mass in two years of HRT. I had no idea how much until I started purging my male business wardrobe just after coming out at work.
I've always loved Brooks Brothers. So right after coming out at work (after 21 months on HRT) I bought a new women's blazer from Brooks Brothers in Loro Piana wool. Beautiful piece, fit perfectly right off the rack.
Just for funzies I pulled my old men's blazer, size 40 R out of the closet and tried it on. I was swimming in it. It was easily three inches too wide across the shoulders. Now for part 2:
I needed to go two to three weeks without repeating outfits (I am a trial lawyer). And that blazer was all they had in the right length. (I am a little long in the torso for a girl my size). Also a lot of women's blazers my size were a little tight in the shoulders. So I went back and looked at the rest of my suit jackets and sport coats. I loved the colors and the patterns. Went great with my blouses and skirts. So..... Boyfriend jackets!
I found an alteration shop, and got to work. I found that I had to have the shoulders taken in, the waist taken in, the sleeves narrowed, and the bottom hemmed up almost two inches. All because the hormones turned me into a much more petite and svelte version of my former self.
Have faith in HRT. Miracles happen but it takes time.
Sadly no I never really worked out :/ That's what I hear and my hips are actually wider than a typical male I think... but the shoulders are still broader >.<
Carly did you happen to lose a lot of weight as well? I'm still pretty early in this process so maybe I'm just not giving it enough time... my shoulders are kinda boney but I just hope to get some reduction to hopefully let my hips take over haha. Your experience gives me hope :)
I don't know how tall you are but my guess is if you are average or greater people may not really notice your shoulder width. This is a non-scientific and unsubstantiated hunch.
As far as actual physical changes, the other day I put on a shirt that was a little too tight before if began HRT 6 months ago and it was almost comfortable. From my physical activity I would say I feel like I have lost a bit of muscle mass. So, hang in there. HRT doesn't max out its effects until two-three years I guess.
What bugs me more than my shoulder width is my tatoos. Got them when I thought I was "cured". They are very well done by a good friend and artist but sadly a bit masculine.
Also, as far as passing with half the population goes, I have never heard a man say "did you see how wide her shoulders were?!"
A friend of mine is FTM and he was very concerned that he had small hands but he was right around five foot tall. I told him, truthfully, "dude I never noticed that and between your appearance and the way you carry yourself I never would have guessed you were trans!" Point being I think we notice these things far more than anyone else.
Cheers!
Additional HRT time will probably help minimize bulk in that area but I wouldn't worry about it. Some brands of womens' business-wear blazers include shoulder pads. ;)
After 3 1/2 years on Estradiol, my shoulders are much smaller than before.
My shoulder bones didn't change. The main loss was in the size of the deltoid muscles. They are much smaller now. Keep in mind, I did a lot of heavy weight training years ago. Today, I just exercise without any weights to keep fit.
HRT really does work. It just takes a lot of time to see the changes we desire.
I don't know if this helps or not but...
First off I (born/lived female, now questioning) have shoulders (and ribcage) that are quite broad for my height, there really is quite a bit of variation in women (by which I mean normal women not photoshopped models or tiny% actresses etc). The only prob with that was sometimes tops didn't fit quite right.
Secondly, I had a housemate for a while who was as girly-girl as it gets and absolutely stunning. She was very tall and one of her insecurities was about her broad shoulders. Again issues with clothing - I was surprised when she told me her clothes size because she was so slender (into her sport) but she had to go up a size or two to fit her shoulders. (Though if you are proficient with a needle and thread you might be able to take in the rest of it to fit better)
I mention that just so you know, even the most girly and stunning -ciswomen can have a complex about a particular part of their bodies! :-) Even when other people don't notice it as a "flaw" of any kind. We can all be much more self-conscious of our own looks and I think women can be especially good at worrying about it.
You might want to google search some fashion/style websites that give advice about clothing - about body shapes and what types of clothes might help to balance out your frame a bit. I'd say look around quite a few sites to get different ideas. There might be styles that give the appearance of a bit more width to your bottom half that could sort of balance the overall silhouette.
:-)
I've not noticed any huge difference with my shoulders, and I was on about this in work the other day, and I noticed the huge variety in shoulders in women, with one girl who used to swim in the olympics having by far the biggest. I don't think this is ever a good marker of gender. Plus this is one of those things that dress properly will never be noticed anyway, see for example this one:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/alessiasantoro/how-to-love-your-broad-shoulders-with-clothes?utm_term=.wx8XpAE6#.tb62lNnR
Em x
The weirdest change for me was that a leather hat I had been given which had been too small to wear fit me. It makes no logical sense. If anything I have more hair than I did when I got it and how much flesh is there under your scalp?
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
Unfortunately, HRT is not going to do anything to reduce your bone structure. But, back and shoulder muscle, as well as upper back fat, will reduce in mass. That will provide you the appearance of slimmer shoulders/torso. Regardless of how much you bulked up or didn't as a man, the muscle mass and fat is influenced by Testosterone and you will have extra bulk on Testosterone than Estrogen. It takes a while for the muscle to break down and become less prominent than the fat, but it'll happen.
Fat migrating to your lower body will also help to minimize the look of your shoulders, by increasing you hip proportions. That is also a pretty slow process and you're likly going to be on HRT for a few years before you see much in that area. Sooner is always possible, but it all depends on genetics and when in your fat "lifecycle" you started. Changes could come sooner or later. If you're in a hurry, you can always look into the brazilian butt lift (my personal favorite), or hip/booty implants.
Being younger, your growth hormone levels will be a bit higher and less time on Testosterone will mean quicker action and less Masculinization to reverse. So, you should see some notable changes in fat distribution around the 2 year mark. Best guess from what I've read from younger posters.
I never noticed much change in my shoulders at all. I wasn't expecting any, so I wasn't disappointed.
I never had much upper body strength, so my shoulders were not particularly developed. I have lost some upper body strength on HRT, but not any significant bulk, since I didn't have much to lose.
My shoulders have also stayed about the same but that includes a year of heavy powerlifting and about 20 lbs total weight loss. Still, they're not really all that big easily fitting a men's medium or women's large shirt. My bigger problem is finding shirts that fit my height.
Before I started working out again last year they had gotten smaller.
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THanks for the advice allsorts and Emma thanks so much for the article! After looking at the so many ways to focus attention on different things it actually has me excited about fashion :)
Thanks Harley :) that really does make me hopeful! They're broader but I think with some muscle reduction I could be very happy with them. It's only been 4.5mnths so I'm probably wishing for too much too soon. I should probably just enjoy that I'm getting decent breast growth :).
Also if it helps I was told I was 175cm which I guess is like 5 9" but everyone seems to think I'm taller which I thought so too. Little dysphoric about it... being like 5 7" I think would be ideal :/.
Quote from: Clairetheanalytical on June 08, 2018, 11:29:17 PM
Thanks Harley :) that really does make me hopeful! They're broader but I think with some muscle reduction I could be very happy with them. It's only been 4.5mnths so I'm probably wishing for too much too soon. I should probably just enjoy that I'm getting decent breast growth :).
Also if it helps I was told I was 175cm which I guess is like 5 9" but everyone seems to think I'm taller which I thought so too. Little dysphoric about it... being like 5 7" I think would be ideal :/.
You're quite welcome, and congrats on the breast growth! I am still waiting for that to kick in one of these days... ha ha ha...
5'9 isn't bad. I come from a long line of Amazons I'm 5'11 and so are most of my aunt's and female cousins. There are a couple over 6'. So meh... Tall is awesome anyway... just think "super model". 😎
Quote from: Harley Quinn on June 09, 2018, 01:53:30 AM
You're quite welcome, and congrats on the breast growth! I am still waiting for that to kick in one of these days... ha ha ha...
5'9 isn't bad. I come from a long line of Amazons I'm 5'11 and so are most of my aunt's and female cousins. There are a couple over 6'. So meh... Tall is awesome anyway... just think "super model". 😎
I always thought I was like 6ft so I almost don't believe the measurement... a few months before that he told me I was 178cm so I'm a bit confused. Hahah that's right :-*! I'm just so lanky already I'd welcome some reduction in height but I hear that's not technically a thing >.>
Gahhh waiting for the changes is a nightmare! Also thinking that I'll need to try to hide the girls once they get big enough is a bit of a nightmare too :o
I'm size 8-10 not because of waist or shoulders but oddly because my hips get too snug... however when I look at my butt I still think its skinny lol.
I had bought a dress 15 years ago that was very tight around the shoulders, now its very tight around the hips and the shoulders didn't feel like I was getting ready to bust seams.
I suspect proportions can change, in my case finally getting on HRT full time instead of the androgynous mess I was before. Just give it time.. in my case 15 years. :angel:
Quote from: Doreen on June 09, 2018, 04:46:20 PM
I'm size 8-10 not because of waist or shoulders but oddly because my hips get too snug... however when I look at my butt I still think its skinny lol.
I had bought a dress 15 years ago that was very tight around the shoulders, now its very tight around the hips and the shoulders didn't feel like I was getting ready to bust seams.
I suspect proportions can change, in my case finally getting on HRT full time instead of the androgynous mess I was before. Just give it time.. in my case 15 years. :angel:
Thanks Doreen! That's great! I'm really hoping for something similar... I just want my hips (which are already fairly large) to be the more dominate of the two. Plus like you I don't want to feel like my shoulders are going to go hulk and burst out of my top :laugh:
Hoping it doesn't take 15 years though, I'm stuck in the mindset of not coming out until I visibly look and feel feminine enough. Or If the breasts start to become impossible to hide ^^.
Quote from: Clairetheanalytical on June 10, 2018, 11:02:36 AM
Thanks Doreen! That's great! I'm really hoping for something similar... I just want my hips (which are already fairly large) to be the more dominate of the two. Plus like you I don't want to feel like my shoulders are going to go hulk and burst out of my top [emoji23]
Hoping it doesn't take 15 years though, I'm stuck in the mindset of not coming out until I visibly look and feel feminine enough. Or If the breasts start to become impossible to hide ^^.
I had been thinking that way until I reached the point that I was ambiguous and the changes were slowing down. I realized that I would only be correctly gendered if I started dressing the part. Of course, although slower the changes were still happening. Now I can sit topless in a women's sauna 14 hours after shaving and not get misgendered. Hair and clothes can push you over the hump.
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
Quote from: Dee Marshall on June 10, 2018, 04:35:35 PM
I had been thinking that way until I reached the point that I was ambiguous and the changes were slowing down. I realized that I would only be correctly gendered if I started dressing the part. Of course, although slower the changes were still happening. Now I can sit topless in a women's sauna 14 hours after shaving and not get misgendered. Hair and clothes can push you over the hump.
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
Thanks Dee you're probably right. The things you can do with clothing are pretty incredible. And yeah, I suspect once I get rid of my beard shadow completely and hopefully mostly all my leg hair (laser in progress) I'll start building my confidence to come out!
Quote from: CarlyMcx on June 06, 2018, 10:34:31 PM
Miracles happen but it takes time.
For some but not for all... No miracles for me.
Karen (20 years post-op)
Quote from: Clairetheanalytical on June 10, 2018, 08:00:50 PM
Thanks Dee you're probably right. The things you can do with clothing are pretty incredible. And yeah, I suspect once I get rid of my beard shadow completely and hopefully mostly all my leg hair (laser in progress) I'll start building my confidence to come out!
Just got out of the sauna again!
You don't have to wait for laser or electrolysis. I can't afford them yet. Get a fresh shave. Don't get anal about it, that will leave you red and sore. Then go to Sephora or Bare Minerals. They'll show you how to hide the shadow. (I like BareMinerals BAREPRO foundation and BareMinerals multitasking concealer.)
YOU, will still see the shadow, I won't lie to you, but other people.won't notice. I like those products because.they significantly lighten the shadow but don't look like you're wearing makeup . You might look like you have a little PCOS problem, but many women do.
I really need to post a picture with my current makeup, the one I use here is a year old and I was using a different concealer. Also I'm wearing a new dress this evening, need a picture of.that, too.
For information purposes I'm 3 years 9 months on HRT and I've been full time for the last two.
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
Quote from: Dee Marshall on June 10, 2018, 08:40:48 PM
Just got out of the sauna again!
You don't have to wait for laser or electrolysis. I can't afford them yet. Get a fresh shave. Don't get anal about it, that will leave you red and sore. Then go to Sephora or Bare Minerals. They'll show you how to hide the shadow. (I like BareMinerals BAREPRO foundation and BareMinerals multitasking concealer.)
YOU, will still see the shadow, I won't lie to you, but other people.won't notice. I like those products because.they significantly lighten the shadow but don't look like you're wearing makeup . You might look like you have a little PCOS problem, but many women do.
I really need to post a picture with my current makeup, the one I use here is a year old and I was using a different concealer. Also I'm wearing a new dress this evening, need a picture of.that, too.
For information purposes I'm 3 years 9 months on HRT and I've been full time for the last two.
The spy who came in from the cold in the War Between the Sexes.
I don't shave but..I am a bit crazy about plucking what I have. That being said, I know many CIS gals that have to.... PCOS sufferers. They have to shave a beard every morning, some of them. Just do it, like she said don't get anal about it. Use makeup to cover it up but no so much it looks like you're caking.