Or find yourself praying or doing spiritual rituals when times get hard?
Sometimes I take a position of prayer when Im particularly stressed. Its more of a reflex than anything since I dont actually pray in my mind. Weird.
I think for some of us, the idea of faith becomes unnatural. Sure we might be conditioned into a religion and rituals, but praying without faith or belief becomes fake and is inauthentic. In other words, you may ask yourself, why am I doing this? I tend to take a Jeffersonian approach as reason is my highest value. If I'm afraid of something or don't know, that's ok. I can't know everything nor control everything, so uncertainty is just part of life. Some need faith, to believe in something to get through the day and/or their life. I think it's a combination of how they're wired and their indoctrination/experiences. The only problem I have with any belief is when it becomes political and those that musterbate want legislate their beliefs and this isn't a one sided thing. It's on either side. People can believe what they want and leave it at that. So, no, I don't feel weird about it anymore. In fact I feel weird if I did pray. No ones ever answered and it never changed an outcome in my favor. IMO it's just a coping mechanism for stuff we can't deal with. Whatever gets you through the day.
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Trudie. It's not that I have lost faith in God. I have lost faith in the false interpreters of his is word. There is a reason there are over 4000 Christian interpretations and beliefs. Nobody can agree that the to most important commandments in the Bible are. Love God with all thy heart and Love they neighbor as thyself, There are no greater commandments than this.
Quote from: DawnOday on July 01, 2018, 03:13:03 PM
Trudie. It's not that I have lost faith in God. I have lost faith in the false interpreters of his is word. There is a reason there are over 4000 Christian interpretations and beliefs. Nobody can agree that the to most important commandments in the Bible are. Love God with all thy heart and Love they neighbor as thyself, There are no greater commandments than this.
It's not like that for me. I can't prove or disprove the existence of god, so it doesn't matter. What I do know is we get one pass through this, so make the best of it. As far as the Bible and commands go, they were written by men, with their own POV. It's not agreed upon, like you said. I went to episcopal parochial school until th 8th grade, so I've had my fill of ritual. If I did do the Christian thing, the premise on top would be yeshua's commandment, love one another as I have loved you. Do that, and it all falls into place. No judgement, no needing the Bible as a steganographic guide to life. Unfortunately it's a bridge too far for many. Faith? I try to aim for what works for me.
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not at all. what I wish for is more supportive people in my life. people are real, people mean something to me. i can't miss something that didn't do or mean anything for me. I'd rather focus on finding real solutions to my problems when they come up.
Nope, not at all. I think I made the right decision to leave Christianity.
You may not be a believer but are you sure that you no longer have faith?
I call myself a Christian but much of the time I'm not a believer.
I still have faith, though. That's why I keep praying even while I don't believe. You may not believe any more but I think that if you pray, you still have faith.
I think that faith is not the same as belief. He wasn't referring to prayer but someone told me that the benefits of meditation would happen whether or not I believed that they would, just as lifting weights would build muscles regardless of whether the exerciser believed that it would. The exerciser would be faithfully lifting the weights even while not believing in their efficacy.
Anyway, why not pray? If there is no God and no Satan, you will not be punished for it.
My realizing my true gender and self has only strengthened my faith, not diminished or removed it. I am a believing Christian and believe in the Bible, just not the main stream conservative evangelical interpretation. For me, my faith is based in relationship with God and not the history of the religion and it is that relationship that gives me comfort and peace.
For what it is worth, now that I have transitioned I have allowed myself to love and cherish the feminine face of God and know her love in a far more inclusive and relational way.
Tia Anne
My faith is in God or a higher power than myself. I keep everything between me and him. Does he shout in my ear "Run for President"?Of course he doesn't. But he does remind me of his two greatest commandments. Love God and Love thy neighbor. The church can go to HE double hockey sticks for all I care. Until they believe in it too.
I only regret not being a believer when it comes time to comfort others with the loss of a loved one. Morality wise, I would rather just try to do what is right because it is right, not because I need to please a 'God.' There is a certain pride in doing that. I will talk to those I have lost, most recently to my brother and Denni, not because I think they will hear me, but because it makes me feel better. I don't need to believe for that. I don't think I could become a believer at this point if my life depended on it. I just don't. Still, if others do, I'm happy for them. Just don't use your 'religious freedom' as an excuse to take my rights away. Sadly, this is happening for real.
Anymore? I never had it.
Sometimes I feel myself envious. Those who have faith (and I don't talk about religions) know that they are never alone, everything have some purpose, sins can be forgived and after all maybe there will be reward. Instead, I just believe we are damn coincidence and nothing awaits us but oblivion. Sad :( Though at least I have power to punish and forgive myself without universe help :D
@HappyMoni I agree with so much of what you have said. I do what is right because that is the right way to live. I'm not trying to get myself into a "better place" when I am gone from this life.
I recently experienced the loss of my mother; so many comments I received contained the phrase, "She is in a much better place now". I was polite and accepted their comments and condolences. I only agreed that she is no longer experiencing pain and physical difficulties.
A grief counselor suggested I talk to Mom and I know of many friends who do that even many years after their loved one has passed. I have struggled getting myself to do it, I tried, it wasn't easy for me. It is still on my mind to attempt again to perhaps gain some peace and continuing connection to my wonderful Mom.
Despite Mom being a religious person and a "believer" we were raised with only a few ties to any churches over the years. Not sure I ever saw Dad in church unless it was for a family members wedding. I have variously described myself as atheist and agnostic. Actually don't give it much thought anymore. I let others believe what they want and expect the same respect back from them.
I too greatly fear the loss, or further loss of basic human rights in the name of religion.
Perry
@Perry maybe you could write it, if saying it feels wrong. It is an unloading of what you feel if nothing else. We trans folk hold things in for way too long for too many things. I hope you find a way to express it. Hugs!
@HappyMoni Thanks for the suggestion and a big thanks for the hug!
I recently picked up the mega-jumbo pack of note pads from the big warehouse store, that would be a good use for them!
Hope you are enjoying the holiday weekend!
Perry
I "believe" something when I see it otherwise content myself with "faith".
Ever see something you couldn't believe? Now that can be very weird and reaffirming. . .
I have a faith. I have MY faith, in the fundamentals that I beleive in.
My faith does not rely on subscribing to a belief system moderated or interpreted by high priests of those proclaiming themselves specially anointed. My faith is not a set of 2,893 instructions to me memorized and followed under all conditions. My faith is not a cudgel to be used on all with whom I disagree, nor to justify any actions I desire to take.
My faith is extremely personal, a compact held between myself and the Universe around me, within which I recognize my nature and that of the All.
I happen to have found an organized religion whose belief system and tenants does not conflict in any way with my faith, and which in fact encourages and supports me in my faith. Having this religion and it's community available is a comfort, and does not negate or compromise my faith in any way. I've managed to take the pulpit a few times for a bit of speechifying.
I know many have turned away from organized religions, particularly those for whom our existence conflicts with some element of their carefully crafted catechisms. Leaving an organized religion, like any organization, represents a loss of community, not a loss of faith, however.
In some ways yes, well maybe not a regret but the feeling of a loss of a security blanket.
The loss of the feeling that there is ultimate justice and the bad will be punished and the good rewarded, the loss of an immortal soul, the loss of the knowledge that I will see my family and friends again that have died.
Having been brought up in the Catholic faith and also having an amazing interest and enthusiasm for science and mathematics, I found that at around age 15 these two began conflicting in my young mind. Throw in a large lump of empathy and the fact that I had been struggling with my sexuality for the past 5 years (which was quite categorically WRONG as I was taught), then things started to break apart.
I really did not like the idea that someone wanted to be worshipped. That just seemed wrong to me, and also if Satan was punishing the bad guys in hell, doesn't that make him a good guy? ideas like that were rattling around my head, BUT I still had a strong FEAR of god and that he could see everything I did and was thinking. This was disastrous for my mental health.
Eventually, I wanted to know more, so I started reading the bible and came across countless contradictions and one particular thing struck me and that was in Genesis and Revelation about the stars falling to earth. I had learnt that a star is a huge ball of nuclear fusion many times the size of the earth, so could not possibly fall to it. To cut a long story short, the more I read, the more the faith fell apart. The science didn't fall apart however as it's rules and mathematics held true and allowed for the creation of modern engineering which can be physically seen to be working.
The hardest part was wrapping my head around my own mortality. The fact that one day I will be dead and my mind will cease to exist. Entering the very same state as before I existed.
Many years later, now I feel that I am merely a manifestation of the amazing power of the physics of the universe(s) and it's complex energy/matter/force interactions. I do not have an objective free will but I have the subjective illusion of free will.
I do not decry those with faith for one moment. In many ways, I envy them. For me, I believe that we don't choose what to believe, but we base our belief on our environment and likelihoods. If we are educated in one direction, we will tend to that direction until more compelling evidence comes along. It's an interesting intellectual journey!
Never had it. Don't miss it.
I didn't have any faith to miss.
But, I do find myself open more where I wasn't before. I don't believe in the interpretations written by others of their idea of what god is or strict religious prescriptions. But I am open to the idea of a prime mover and also to the positive aspects of religion. Neither affect me much. If I commune with anything, it's with myself. It's not because I'm getting older and fearing death or anything. I'm looking forward to oblivion while enjoying the rest of my life however long it is. I don't believe in any sort of eternal soul or afterlife currently comprehensible.
But I do take time to speak to myself internally, in the manner of meditation or prayer. Because there are parts of a person internally that aren't necessary conscious and are still connected, and they are listening, even if "god" isn't. I've had some results in getting myself to overcome certain obstacles this way. It might just be rationalizing in part, but it might also be something else.
Quote from: Kylo on November 27, 2018, 03:40:07 AM
I didn't have any faith to miss.
But, I do find myself open more where I wasn't before. I don't believe in the interpretations written by others of their idea of what god is or strict religious prescriptions. But I am open to the idea of a prime mover and also to the positive aspects of religion. Neither affect me much. If I commune with anything, it's with myself. It's not because I'm getting older and fearing death or anything. I'm looking forward to oblivion while enjoying the rest of my life however long it is. I don't believe in any sort of eternal soul or afterlife currently comprehensible.
But I do take time to speak to myself internally, in the manner of meditation or prayer. Because there are parts of a person internally that aren't necessary conscious and are still connected, and they are listening, even if "god" isn't. I've had some results in getting myself to overcome certain obstacles this way. It might just be rationalizing in part, but it might also be something else.
Kylo, this is very similar to my own belief system, and how I am trying to live my life.
I was raised Roman Catholic, parochial elementary school and studying Latin and repression in a Catholic high school. I'm a recovering catholic, now identifying more as a secular humanist and pagan than anything else, and a member of a Unitarian Universalist congregation.
Getting here has been one heck of a ride, but I do have my own belief system and faith, shared by others here, and supported by others as I continue to explore and contemplate the Universe and my place in it.
If there is a God why would the world be the way that it is? If there is a God he/she/it does not care about people. Maybe some but not most. Certainly not me. I've tried to live a good life and have been treated horribly by EVERYONE who mattered to me.
Why would I put faith is God when no prayers were ever answered, no help given, and not obviously no care given. I could go on and on but why bother.
Quote from: DawnOday on September 02, 2018, 06:13:54 PM
My faith is in God or a higher power than myself. I keep everything between me and him. Does he shout in my ear "Run for President"?Of course he doesn't. But he does remind me of his two greatest commandments. Love God and Love thy neighbor. The church can go to HE double hockey sticks for all I care. Until they believe in it too.
Agreed. Besides how do we know the corruption hasn't been run it's course in to get the masses to believe in the world religion and usher in the Antichrist and the false prophet? There are individual churches that I like but the churches ona whole are entirely too corrupted for me anyways. If Jesus was here he'd be kicking over the tables still.
Quote from: GingerVicki on November 27, 2018, 01:37:44 PM
If there is a God why would the world be the way that it is? If there is a God he/she/it does not care about people. Maybe some but not most. Certainly not me. I've tried to live a good life and have been treated horribly by EVERYONE who mattered to me.
Why would I put faith is God when no prayers were ever answered, no help given, and not obviously no care given. I could go on and on but why bother.
Because it is about free will. We are being tested and made stronger.
The whole garbage about do this or you'll go to hell is simply people manipulating the truth. Simply love one another and treat people with respect and dignity and provide support to people in need.
I grew up being teased, got in fights constantly because I was different and didn't fit in. We are not in heaven right now. We make our own way and show our worth even in the face of stress and atrocity.
Think of life as boot camp.
Maybe the "point" of life from a religious standpoint is to overcome and struggle. After all when human beings do not have struggle and strife they tend to become complacent and ungrateful. This point is made over and over in the Bible, god asks people to do x and they conveniently forget and the next thing you know you're having wild orgies for the Cow God. If history is anything to go by, we do seriously suck at retaining the lessons of our mistakes, we fail to pass them on and enforce them adequately in each new generation.
I don't believe in a moral god, but if I did, I would suggest this: it's not nearly enough to understand morality and follow the path of good if it's chosen for you. The whole arc of humanity in a Christian sense has been to regain its place at the side of god after blindly disobeying by learning exactly what evil is... and of our own volition, giving it up because we have learned how harmful it is. You can't truly learn the lesson and the value of good and doing right without the perspective of pain and knowing the harm evil causes. For god to just magic away all our problems would have us still ignorant of the lesson and ready to repeat it.
maybe think of our idea of god not as an actual reality up there in the sky, but a moral guide pointing the way out of a cage made of the evil that our unfettered instincts and desires can lead to. In which case, you have passed the test, learned the lesson, and struggle despite everything in your life to remain a moral and good person even while people around you act like animals. You are doing it right.
No. No need for that nonsense.
Quote from: Kylo on November 27, 2018, 07:49:49 PM
Maybe the "point" of life from a religious standpoint is to overcome and struggle. After all when human beings do not have struggle and strife they tend to become complacent and ungrateful. This point is made over and over in the Bible, god asks people to do x and they conveniently forget and the next thing you know you're having wild orgies for the Cow God. If history is anything to go by, we do seriously suck at retaining the lessons of our mistakes, we fail to pass them on and enforce them adequately in each new generation.
I don't believe in a moral god, but if I did, I would suggest this: it's not nearly enough to understand morality and follow the path of good if it's chosen for you. The whole arc of humanity in a Christian sense has been to regain its place at the side of god after blindly disobeying by learning exactly what evil is... and of our own volition, giving it up because we have learned how harmful it is. You can't truly learn the lesson and the value of good and doing right without the perspective of pain and knowing the harm evil causes. For god to just magic away all our problems would have us still ignorant of the lesson and ready to repeat it.
maybe think of our idea of god not as an actual reality up there in the sky, but a moral guide pointing the way out of a cage made of the evil that our unfettered instincts and desires can lead to. In which case, you have passed the test, learned the lesson, and struggle despite everything in your life to remain a moral and good person even while people around you act like animals. You are doing it right.
So awesomely put. The one thing I would add is literally we make the same mistakes each generation because we are not the same people running through this each time and we all have to make our way through and learn the lessons.
I really think most people reject the way simply because their only experience with it is going to church listening to a lecture, standing, sitting, kneeling, singing. Then putting it all away until next Sunday when they return to have their sins forgiven and buy peace of mind for another week of being horrible.
People confuse the church and the way it is now with and the actual life lessons.