I know HRT is YMMV, and this question was asked dozens of times over by others, but I'm curious about how long I can take HRT before people will notice that I'm not cis. I haven't come out yet. I guess I want to "have my cake and eat it too," so to speak: I want to be the authentic me and not have to come out, which I know is impossible; I'll have to come out eventually. Still, I'd like to at least get a feel for HRT without having to spill the secret.
I'd say personally the two big factors for me were hair and breasts.
I've been on HRT for 13 months now; if I'd kept my hair short and had had little or no breast development, I'm sure I'd pass easily as male if dressed as such. My close genetic female relatives are all quite ample in the breast department so I figured I might and indeed have had good development there.
I was out and full-time before I started HRT. Personally I didn't want to have HRT dictate the timing of when and where I'd have to come out to friends or work; though many others take the opposite path.
Good luck. X
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Quote from: Danielle Kristina on August 09, 2018, 12:45:28 AM
I know HRT is YMMV, and this question was asked dozens of times over by others, but I'm curious about how long I can take HRT before people will notice that I'm not cis. I haven't come out yet. I guess I want to "have my cake and eat it too," so to speak: I eant to be the authentic me and not have to come out, which I know is impossible; I'll have to come out eventually. Still, I'd like to at least get a feel for HRT without having to spill the secret.
@Danielle KristinaDear Danielle: I see that you received your HRT letter a little over a week ago, congratulations to you. This will be an exciting time for you.
As you probably already are aware from your time here reading the threads and posts of other members, HRT is not an exact science and the results that you hear about others having are most likely not going to be your exact results.
HRT will work in every body differently and uniquely. It is all up to your genes.
Some individuals will report more significant changes more quickly and others may report less significant changes at a slower pace. Definitely PATIENCE IS REQUIRED.
Around the forums here we say "Your Mileage May Vary" .... you are unique and HRT will work but at it's own speed with your body. Nothing usually happens very fast with HRT but things will happen.
Generally, but only generally, you might see some
moderate breast growth at the 6 month mark.
At 1 1/2 years I had a full B cup and
I then came out full-time. I was successfully passing well before that but I wanted to refine my grooming, mannerisms, voice, etc.
My breast development and other feminizing body changes continued through and beyond year #3. You may or may not see these kinds of results, so again, patience is required.
Take some search time and look through the various personal threads and HRT progress threads of other members here. Many have posted timelines and before & after pictures which will help you to get an idea of what changes can happen with various individuals... again, their results will most likely not be your results.
I hope that my non-answer helped you. Please feel free to PM me if you have any questions but please keep posting your thoughts and your successes and disappointments to. We will be your biggest fans and rejoice with you in the good news and support you in the not so good news.
Like your profile tagline says:
"One day at a time, one step at a time."Hugs,
Danielle (the Alaskan one)
I started looking very androgynous about 2 years into HRT. Difficult to be sure what my gender is at a glance. My hair has grown quite long too. FFS will take away any uncertainty I'm sure.
I think for the first year or so you won't have much to worry about with regard to other people noticing anything.
Hi Danielle Kristina,
I nearly lost my family. Coming out to everyone could have ended me. Now my family knows where I'm at so do my parents. Close friends know I'm trans.Work doesn't know but they will in the end. I found 12 months of HRT resulted in slightly more feminine face. B-cup chest and my natural disposition had people guessing. Even with a sports bra I started getting comments. People would of the cuff start conversations about transgender or gay people. I would answer off the cuff or make humour that went down well enough. These days parents are good, family is mostly good. Overall it's a positive situation - life on HRT is much better. 12 months HRT at 49 years old has people thinking.... I wouldn't miss this for the world though.!
HRT can be kept low key if you want it to.( I may have hit partial male fail)
Kindest regards, Kirsten.
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You said YMMV, so I won't repeat it (okay, I just did). Some people can go indefinitely on HRT without having male fail. For others, it is as little as two or three months.
At three months, it was getting harder for me to conceal the growing girls. Not that I have huge hooters or anything - at a year and a half, I am still only an A - but they were giving me a distinctly non-masculing shape. And at about five or six months, facial changes started to become noticeable. Had I still been presenting as male at that time, I could perhaps have laughed off comments by claiming to have lost weight or something, but the changes were definitely visible.
Unlike you, I couldn't wait to come out. Once I got that train got on the track, it wasn't going to stop.
My doctor started me on very conservative dosages when I started HRT and then kind of stopped monitoring me at all by the 6 month point. I would say the changes started to be noticeable by the end of 6 months. Very definite softening of the skin on my face, considerably less body hair, and AA cup breasts that looked more like an overweight male than a females. I'm at 13 months still with AA cups and no major changes since the 6 month point so genetics and competent doctor's make a big difference.
Im 52 have been on HRT for 15 months, Have A cup for sure maybe a B cup, facial changes I do not notice but my Therapist says she does see a definite softening of the face. My body on the other hand with clothes off has definitely changed. I have been having electrolysis one hour appointment three times a week for the last 10 months or so. I had the Fred Flintstone dark shadow all of the face even when shaved before that is gone except for still a bit of darkening upper lip and chin which I hope will be gone by the end of the year. Now onto what you asked. I own a construction company and have not came out at work . I have to wear a sports bra and two shirts and the girls are still a bit noticeable but have not had anyone say anything. Im 5'7" 150lbs so not overweight but the HRT has changed a lot of the muscle to softer tissue and a little bit of ab fat. I believe unless you are really lucky that sometimes does happen you can just keep going like you have been without coming out until you want. I would have loved to be one that gets male fail but its not happening at least yet is hasn't. I think that you should try the HRT for a little bit and see how you feel on it. Your not going to change in the first month. You will notice when your chest starts to develop and can stop at that time if you wish without any lasting effects
That's my 2cents at least
good luck
I started hrt end of September and by Thanksgiving my family was noticing something changing. I think it was hrt making my skin softer, my cheeks filling out and growing out my hair (I had started August from a buzz cut). Now at 10 months, I just told my brother (3 out of 4 of my sisters know and my mother pretty much knows too) and he could tell because my features have been changing. I think everyone knows by now whether I told them or not.
I was probably confusing people around 6 months on hrt. I overheard a stranger ask someone if I'm a boy or girl.
I still get misgendered so I'm not really sure how each person decides who's a female and who isn't (I think I do know, but I'll save that for another discussion?).
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This question is impossible to answer beforehand. Very likely people already know "something" but have never mentioned it. Mannerisms and attitude are a huge part of passing/misgendering. The effect hormones have on the mind and the effect they have on a person's comfort to express their Authentic Self can have as much if not more effect than any physical changes. The effects of any concurrent piercings, changes in clothing, use of makeup, eyebrow grooming, weight loss, hair removal and hair growth tend to be more "obvious" to most people.
I have been on a typical transition level HRT regimen for 9 years. My female alter had no problems with people knowing she was a girl before hormones and I don't have any problems with people misgendering me as a girl now (I do get compliments on my great pecs when I have my shirt off at the gym or the beach).
I've been on HRT for a little over two years, and so far if anyone has noticed they've not said anything to me.
I think laser and growing my hair longer has had a greater impact on my appearance than Estrogen and blockers have.
But that's just me YMMV, like you said.
I'm looking forward to HRT. I just don't want to be out before I'm ready.
Quote from: Danielle Kristina on August 09, 2018, 03:16:12 PM
I'm looking forward to HRT. I just don't want to be out before I'm ready.
The thing is that HRT, and how your body responds to it, will set the agenda.
So you should be close to ready before you start. Or at least prepared to get yourself ready with a month's notice. You could probably do a three month trial and back out if things get too serious too fast. Longer than that, and it's a gamble.
I think I might have heard that question asked once or twice before. ;D
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,130268.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,218060.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,209589.0.html
https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,207785.0.html
Quote from: Danielle Kristina on August 09, 2018, 12:45:28 AM
I know HRT is YMMV, and this question was asked dozens of times over by others, but I'm curious about how long I can take HRT before people will notice that I'm not cis. I haven't come out yet. I guess I want to "have my cake and eat it too," so to speak: I want to be the authentic me and not have to come out, which I know is impossible; I'll have to come out eventually. Still, I'd like to at least get a feel for HRT without having to spill the secret.
Hello again Danielle Kristina
As others have said, there is no set rule or timing on this. My experience is such that I can safely hide for 8 months in total as I have been on HRT 6 months and now seeing signs which I expect tp become more visible in 2 months time and wef October I will have to take further concealment action till the time I chose to go public next year.
Obviously there comes a time when it is almost impossible to hide the physical changes.
Good luck on your journey.
Hugs.
Pamela
Quote from: Virginia on August 09, 2018, 12:27:02 PM
Very likely people already know "something" but have never mentioned it.
Mannerisms and attitude are a huge part of passing/misgendering.
The effect hormones have on the mind and the effect they have on a person's comfort to express their Authentic Self can have as much if not more effect than any physical changes.
Hello Virginia
I think you have made 3 separate points here and I must say I agree wholeheartedly with all 3.
So even before HRT, other people may have suspected anyway but never commented directly to us!
Hugs
Pamela
To the original post, I think it depends on a lot of factors including your body weight and the type of people that surround you.
In my case, 6 months was when I had the first point blank question. And to my surprise it was not the breast growth (wore a sports bra) or the longer hair. It was that after losing 150 pounds before hormones, I started looking healthy without looking like I was gaining weight (I was and still am), and because due to hormones plus laser, my skin complexion changed quite significantly. I have good skin but it was obvious something was going on.
For myself, I started HRT at age 64 and within a year, people who knew the old me started saying that I looked different somehow. Maybe it had to do with over 100 pounds weight loss, but I definitely did not look the same. At 2 years of HRT, I had a chest that could not be hidden and I needed to wear a bra for proper support. At the 2 year mark, I had FFS, and after healing a few months later, I was always taken to be female, even by people who do not know me.
For us late transitioners, it takes a little longer and there are a few more things to do. I am so envious of the early transitioners who can do it all in just a few months with minimal surgeries.
I haven't started HRT yet, so before I do I thought I'd ask.
For me passing started around month 6 and since month 12 I have only been misgendered once or twice. I did go full time at the 6 months mark, so I had a bit of struggles initially with passing. I am now 20 months into HRT. Would still love to see more breast growths.
Good luck with your HRT journey !
Quote from: Danielle Kristina on August 11, 2018, 10:34:06 PM
I haven't started HRT yet, so before I do I thought I'd ask.
@Danielle KristinaDear Danielle:Thanks for starting this thread on a subject that all transitioning or soon to be transitioning members are most interested in.
Hugs,
Danielle (the Alaskan one)
@AshleyP
Thank you for your informational and encouraging posting of your personal experiences... many new members and transtioners will find what you stated very helpful.
Hugs,
Danielle
Proportional to how "manly" someone looks, how long might it take for the effects to be impossible to hide? A short, slender person will probably end up looking female sooner than a tall, stocky person, allowing a tall stocky person to hide longer. Or alternatively, perhaps a tall stocky person will show the signs more prominently because feminine features would look more out of place on a tall stocky person, regardless of attractiveness or possibility. Anyone have personal experience with this?
Quote from: Lucca on August 12, 2018, 12:20:47 AM
Proportional to how "manly" someone looks, how long might it take for the effects to be impossible to hide? A short, slender person will probably end up looking female sooner than a tall, stocky person, allowing a tall stocky person to hide longer. Or alternatively, perhaps a tall stocky person will show the signs more prominently because feminine features would look more out of place on a tall stocky person, regardless of attractiveness or possibility. Anyone have personal experience with this?
I'd be curious to hear from others regarding that myself.
Quote from: Danielle Kristina on August 12, 2018, 12:48:20 AM
I'd be curious to hear from others regarding that myself.
If the only thing you do to feminize yourself is HRT, then it would probably be a couple of years before others will notice any changes (I was able to hide breast growth with a tight tank top or t-shirt under another shirt, or scrubs at work), because the effects of HRT are gradual and subtle, therefore, if you don't start growing out your hair, or change your voice, mannerisms, do electrolysis, and other things people will not notice very much. And If you're "stocky", HRT will not shrink your musculature in a few months, some people will say it will, but it won't, so you would have to restrict your daily caloric intake, and also exercise if you want to be slim.
Quote from: AshleyP on August 12, 2018, 01:42:47 AM
At what point did you feel the need to start to hide your breast growth?
It was around 8 months
Quote from: MissyMay2.0 on August 12, 2018, 01:37:30 AM
If the only thing you do to feminize yourself is HRT, then it would probably be a couple of years before others will notice any changes (I was able to hide breast growth with a tight tank top or t-shirt under another shirt, or scrubs at work), because the effects of HRT are gradual and subtle, therefore, if you don't start growing out your hair, or change your voice, mannerisms, do electrolysis, and other things people will not notice very much. And If you're "stocky", HRT will not shrink your musculature in a few months, some people will say it will, but it won't, so you would have to restrict your daily caloric intake, and also exercise if you want to be slim.
I think this is the part that varies wildly across different people. For me, I was so thin at the time that the breast growth was pretty obvious even though it still at the 12 month mark is barely hitting an A. Even with a sports bra or a tight shirt it wasn't helping much so I reverted to baggy clothes. I know one woman locally who grew a B size chest in a year, so you would probably need to bind to stay stealth as a male with that.
Also, for me I cannot wear men's pants and dress shirts anymore, or at least not without going up a few sizes. At around the 8 month mark I started developing hips and a butt. It was a bit strange getting used to not needing a belt to keep pants and shorts from falling off of me.
And skin complexion changed. To your point, if you are not doing any hair removal, that might not be obvious. But maybe it would be, who knows.
Quote from: jill610 on August 12, 2018, 03:43:45 AM
I think this is the part that varies wildly across different people. For me, I was so thin at the time that the breast growth was pretty obvious even though it still at the 12 month mark is barely hitting an A. Even with a sports bra or a tight shirt it wasn't helping much so I reverted to baggy clothes. I know one woman locally who grew a B size chest in a year, so you would probably need to bind to stay stealth as a male with that.
Also, for me I cannot wear men's pants and dress shirts anymore, or at least not without going up a few sizes. At around the 8 month mark I started developing hips and a butt. It was a bit strange getting used to not needing a belt to keep pants and shorts from falling off of me.
And skin complexion changed. To your point, if you are not doing any hair removal, that might not be obvious. But maybe it would be, who knows.
I've started growing my hair out. It's got a long way to go before it looks anything close to feminine. I also recently pierced my right ear ( my left ear was pierced some 20 years ago, though I seldom wore an ear ring). I don't grow much body hair as it is, so I may not need electrolysis, but we'll see. No voice therapy yet, but I see it in when I think about my transition future. On the other hand, with my wearing ear rings, growing out my hair, and a gradual change from HRT people might begin to suspect the truth. Then again, maybe not. I'm scared and excited at the same time.
Quote from: Danielle Kristina on August 12, 2018, 04:02:57 AM
I've started growing my hair out. It's got a long way to go before it looks anything close to feminine. I also recently pierced my right ear ( my left ear was pierced some 20 years ago, though I seldom wore an ear ring). I don't grow much body hair as it is, so I may not need electrolysis, but we'll see. No voice therapy yet, but I see it in when I think about my transition future. On the other hand, with my wearing ear rings, growing out my hair, and a gradual change from HRT people might begin to suspect the truth. Then again, maybe not. I'm scared and excited at the same time.
Voice takes a long time to get nailed, I am still working on mine. Part of the hard part is training your muscles into the new normal. That takes time. In hindsight, knowing what I know now, I would have started laser and voice earlier in the process. Laser is effective but painful, I believe far more painful than electrolysis, but you wait 6-8 weeks between sessions. I just had number nine yesterday and feel like I got punched in the face. But totally worth it. If you have light skin and dark hair, losing the blue shadow and being able to go out without makeup is a pretty big deal both for for passing and your own self esteem. Hormones do not affect secondary sex characteristics, so facial hair won't thin out from hormones. Other body hair will.
Oh yes, perhaps I should have specified. I'm planning to start laser, grow my hair long, and lose some weight before going on HRT, and possibly start shaving my legs and arms as well. I doubt any of those without HRT are going to give anyone pause beyond "hey, you look a bit different than you did eight months ago," but I'm still unsure of how long it will be after that before anyone notices anything drastically out of the ordinary for a man. I'm not entirely certain about exactly how "manly" my body looks either, for that matter. I'm pretty wide and tall, but I have also have pretty curvy legs, noticabely large breasts for a male, and am not muscular at all.
I'm kind of at a point where I just don't give a crap what other people think about my appearance, except that I'd like to have the option to stay closeted at work for as long as possible.
Can you get close supervision and lab tests by a knowledgeable doctor? I get frequent screenings and doctor visits, so I have a better handle on my diet than most people. Blood tests would certainly help in guiding you precisely to your goal.
This may be a good time to come out, especially if your company has been doing sexual harassment training for all its employees. With this knowledge fresh on the minds of key personnel, you are more likely to have a favorable outcome. Also, companies are having problems finding workers with all the harassment of immigrants. You are likely to get more slack if they can't replace you.
If you are getting close to retirement it may also be a good idea to transition. You may have medical benefits that may not be available when you retire. Good time to fix your teeth. Also, changes to pensions and retirement plans may mean that if they do let you go, your 401k retirement plan goes with you. They may want you to hang around to teach the new guy. Ideally, you may have co-workers who would act as your support network. You never know who will help you. The bigger the group of people you associate with the better chance you have of having a few who will provide the support you need.
Quote from: Maid Marion on August 12, 2018, 09:55:40 AM
Can you get close supervision and lab tests by a knowledgeable doctor? I get frequent screenings and doctor visits, so I have a better handle on my diet than most people. Blood tests would certainly help in guiding you precisely to your goal.
This may be a good time to come out, especially if your company has been doing sexual harassment training for all its employees. With this knowledge fresh on the minds of key personnel, you are more likely to have a favorable outcome. Also, companies are having problems finding workers with all the harassment of immigrants. You are likely to get more slack if they can't replace you.
If you are getting close to retirement it may also be a good idea to transition. You may have medical benefits that may not be available when you retire. Good time to fix your teeth. Also, changes to pensions and retirement plans may mean that if they do let you go, your 401k retirement plan goes with you. They may want you to hang around to teach the new guy. Ideally, you may have co-workers who would act as your support network. You never know who will help you. The bigger the group of people you associate with the better chance you have of having a few who will provide the support you need.
I shave my legs, underarms, arms, and chest, but not every day. I often let my hair grow out not because I want the hair, but because shaving all over is such a chore and I don't always feel like doing it. I may eventually begin hair removal once I've progressed enough in my transition.
Quote from: Lucca on August 12, 2018, 12:20:47 AM
Proportional to how "manly" someone looks, how long might it take for the effects to be impossible to hide? A short, slender person will probably end up looking female sooner than a tall, stocky person, allowing a tall stocky person to hide longer. Or alternatively, perhaps a tall stocky person will show the signs more prominently because feminine features would look more out of place on a tall stocky person, regardless of attractiveness or possibility. Anyone have personal experience with this?
I pass without HRT. I get misgendered on the phone all the time. I short and and thin. 5' 3" 108 lbs and a 32-26-32 figure. But my proportions are quite good, so I can wear woman's small or XS clothes right off the rack. Small is a little loose, which is how a guy normally wears clothes. XS is a little tight, which is how women wear clothes.
Quote from: Maid Marion on August 12, 2018, 07:11:45 PM
I pass without HRT. I get misgendered on the phone all the time. I short and and thin. 5' 3" 108 lbs and a 32-26-32 figure. But my proportions are quite good, so I can wear woman's small or XS clothes right off the rack. Small is a little loose, which is how a guy normally wears clothes. XS is a little tight, which is how women wear clothes.
Your body looked very muscular and defined in the pictures you posted of yourself wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and sandals in the do I pass thread.
Quote from: MissyMay2.0 on August 12, 2018, 07:19:13 PM
Your body looked very muscular and defined in the pictures you posted of yourself wearing a t-shirt, shorts, and sandals in the do I pass thread.
Yes it is, especially in the summer when I do a lot of yard work. But folks misgender me all the time. Even when wearing a t-shirt and shorts.
The most memorable example was in an empty airport just after 9-11. We got there real early in the morning The TSA guy greeted me and my wife with "hello ladies."
You know, he's another question; does total beard removal look particularly unusual on a male who isn't otherwise doing anything to physically transition? I know plenty of guys who are capable of shaving and looking completely hairless, so I'm guessing not. It'll be obvious that I'm doing it because my facial hair is so dark, but I'd like to know if there's anything about it that looks decidedly feminine before I start.
I don't know if it's true at all that no one will notice until 2 years... Even with facial hair and short hair, it may be possible be will notice. Those who say something will be the ones closest to you.
In my case, like I said, my family made comments. Coworkers and clients would make weird facial expressions, especially after not seeing me for a while.
That was all about 3-4 months into hrt for me.
I read here not much happens and I really was thinking I could hide for atleast a year but I didn't even get a quarter of that... Well it's ok I guess because the goal is feminization.
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Well, I'll be getting laser rather than electrolysis initially, if that makes a difference. I don't plan on hiding the fact that I'm getting it either, I'll just be up front and say that I hate having stubble and I hate shaving, which is true. I'd considered having my facial hair removed even before the idea of transitioning popped into my head. If there are affects on your appearance besides simply "not having facial hair" though, I do want to be aware of it beforehand.