So yesterday I completed 30 hours of electrolysis. The technician has worked on my chin this entire 30 hours. She says that I have a lot of hair follicles. I'm definitely seeing some results but when I let my hair grow and look in the 5x makeup mirror I still see a considerable amount of hair on my chin. Everything I've read says plan on 200 to 400 hours to clear the entire face/neck. If I use the middle number of 300 hours then my guess..and it's definitely a guess would be that the chin is 50 hours, each cheek is 50 hours, upper lip 50 hours, and the neck 100 hours. Does this sound accurate? Obviously the numbers would change if I end up being that 400 hour patient. My question centers more around how each area of the face and neck is divided up. I assume there are more follicles on the chin and upper lip than other areas. Does this sound right? I'm trying not to get discouraged but it's so difficult to fathom 270 to 370 more hours of this torture and money spending! Any words of encouragement would be greatly appreciated!
I am doing laser hair removal and the upper lip and chin seem to be the only hangups. These two spots are tough for me. I never grew much hair on my cheeks so, I can't speak to those areas. Most high school boys have more cheek hair then I ever did.
Heather it will take what it will take. Don't focus on the end number as it will drive you crazy. The goal is to keep at it so you deal with the hairs while they are in their growth phase, as opposed to resting phase. If you can afford it keep a steady appointment each week. My Electrologist always moved around to thin out the hair and not cause heat damage by staying in one area too long. I also had her work on dark hairs first since they produce shadow that is hard to cover with makeup. Hang in there!
Thanks ya'll. I will stay the course and keep on grinding. The day somebody figures out how to eliminate all hair in a very short period of time will make that somebody a very rich individual.
Hi Heather,
My electrologist said I will probably need 300 hours as a very ball park figure. She is working on the darker hairs first to give a more aesthetically pleasing result with less visible hairs as I have a few black, then red then white.
She said the hairs on my upper lip and chin are quite densely packed so she can't blast them all at once and try to clear a complete area due to it damaging the skin so she has to dot around to just thin things out, but sometimes I can't tell that any have been removed there! When she worked on my cheeks it was a TOTALLY different story, she did a thinning session first (1 hour each side) then a more intense session of clearing (2 hours per side over 2 days) and wow! what a difference, so yes, chin and upper lip are very dense so keep the faith! They will go eventually but it will take time.
V x
My electrologist has removed well over a dozen women's and mens beards. She was clear going in the average treatment time is 500 hours.
I was 49 and had a full medium brown beard with alot of red and blonde hair. I kept my Van Dyke so it only took 20 full face laser sessions and 340 hours of blend electrolysis (included cleaning up my eyebrows into a more gender neutral shape). My electrologist goes for a natural look and leaves the fine vellum hair, so you don't wind up looking like you just shaved.
There's a long way to go after that first clearing. You have no way of knowing if a hair is at the right point in its growth cycle for the procedure to be effective. And the body likes its hair. Eight years later there is a bugger along side my nostril and one on my neck that refuse to die. Shrug. I go in for a 15 minute maintenance session once or twice year and to catch up with my electrologist.
As an aside-
Meladine is a product sold to increase the effectiveness of laser hair removal. I used two full bottles of the stuff and the only thing it did was cause ingrown hairs and infected pustules.
.
My first volume facial hair removal took 32 hours over two days to clear my entire face and neck using thermolysis (Flash electrolysis). The densest hair was on my chin, and to this day I wish I hadn't allowed my electrologist to attempt to clear every hair on my chin because it damaged my skin. I went on to complete 230 hours of electrolysis, both Flash and Blend modalities. Blend is far less damaging, but takes 10 times as long to clear a section of hair which translates to much higher cost. At $100/hour, electrolysis could be your most expensive feminization procedure, it all depends on how thick, widespread, and stubborn your beard is. I know of some girls who got rid of their facial hair with just 6 laser treatments. Unfortunately, laser doesn't work on blond, red, or gray hair. Even light brown is questionable. Keep in mind also that as you age your skin retains less moisture which makes electrolysis less effective. It pays to keep hydrated and to moisturize your skin religiously to improve the effectiveness of electrolysis.
What you are trying to do is get rid of terminal (male) hair. Hair grows from one of many germ cells in the follicle. If there's a blood supply present at the follicle, another hair will grow from a germ cell to replace the one that was killed. The new hair is often finer and shallower rooted than the terminal hair, but if left alone can grow to be a thick terminal hair, and have to be retreated.
It's important to be hormonally female to keep these fine hairs fine and short (villus hair). Going off your hormones and letting your T levels rise is going to encourage terminal hair growth. Those villus hairs will go terminal if there's enough T in the blood supply. After all those hours of electrolysis, my face is still covered with fine, short, white hairs. I call them my female hairs because they don't develop into the terminal hairs that men have. Some do, however, and have to be retreated. I just pluck them out. I can't stand the idea of shaving my face.
BTW, three fractional CO2 laser skin resurfacing treatments and one dermabrasion did not correct the skin damage from overly aggressive flash electrolysis of the dense hair on my chin. Among my trans women friends, the problem of skin damage from electrolysis, especially among older women, is quite common, so be careful. A person with a trained eye will recognize the scarring and peg you as trans.
Extremely informative post, Clara Kay, thank you.
Quote from: Clara Kay on August 22, 2018, 04:48:42 PM
the problem of skin damage from electrolysis, especially among older women, is quite common, so be careful.
Another risk of electrolysis is damage to the pigmentation cells of the face. Pin head sized spots with no pigmentation leave the skin looking like "chicken skin." My electrologist explained the occurrence is unpredictable.
At age 16 I had a full beard and looked old enough to buy beer for my friends.
At age 51 I started thermo electrolysis with a very experienced electrologist.
No damage, and the following year was the last time I had to shave.
I stopped wearing foundation.
Quote from: Kendra on August 24, 2018, 10:57:23 AM
At age 16 I had a full beard and looked old enough to buy beer for my friends.
At age 51 I started thermo electrolysis with a very experienced electrologist.
No damage, and the following year was the last time I had to shave.
I stopped wearing foundation.
Wow... that's awesome. Whats about red bumps? I did a couple of paths with my electrolist and ended up with red bumps that took a long time to get rid of. Maybe it was the heat...??
Thanks
Karen
First half year was three two-hour sessions per week, then less often as my face cleared. As predicted by my electrologist the first few months involved rough red skin, my face felt warm until I returned to my office (half hour drive). I received some odd looks at work but nobody asked, and if I forgot about it fewer people seemed to notice. It was a valuable way for me to learn how important our mind is. If we know something is okay, other people don't notice as much.
After a half year my skin was less sensitive to the same amount of electrolysis. After a full year I could walk into a coffee shop a few minutes after electrolysis and nobody noticed.
For those first challenging months my electrologist recommended diaper rash compound but I found a better solution was "Mom's Balm (http://moms%20balm%20-%20home%20|%20facebook)" made locally in Roslyn, Washington State - it's a clear ointment for applying after receiving a tattoo. I found the tattoo salve/ointment soothing and almost invisible to wear - I would cake it on for the car trip, and then dab most of it off with a napkin before walking into the office so my face wouldn't be so glossy.
Yikes, some of the numbers I'm seeing in this thread are scary! My electrologist estimated 2 years at 1 hour per week. That is like 100 hours total. I am at a year and a half and seeing significant progress. I am hoping that the 500 hours estimate is way too high. I can see 150 hours being possible at the rate I am going. Hopefully it is less.
So I actually went to my electrolysis today. I purposely went an extra day without shaving just to get a better idea of what is showing as cleared. I pointed out to her that we've spent 31 hours on my chin and was just curious as to how many more hours might be spent in this area. She smiled and said I had a few to go. Halfway through the treatment she apparently turned up the juice for the first time. I definitely felt it. The pain was more noticeable but not excruciating. (I had taken my normal 800 mg of Ibuprofen and applied some numbing cream before hand) When we were done she said you'll definitely want to put some ice on it. I looked in the mirror and I was pretty red and puffy. More than I've been since we started. But what I also noticed was a much larger smooth area. So I guess my initial comments about the 31 hours pissed her off or something:) But hey I'm cool with it if it speeds this process up. Just don't know why she didn't try this several sessions ago!
Kathy, I am your age and had a light beard to start. I have gotten 150 hours so far, over three years due to stoppage for vacations and surgery. Every time I thought I was ahead of the curve, more reappeared. I am seeing really strong progress now, but I won't predict how much more is needed as it seems to be a fools errand. I never considered that i'd still be at it but who knows? I'll just keep going until its over! The light at the end of the tunnel is getting closer. Hang in there!
Judi
Quote from: heather3791 on August 24, 2018, 06:57:48 PM
I guess my initial comments about the 31 hours pissed her off or something:)
I've learned alot laying on my electrologist's table for 340 hours; it's definitely NOT to a client's advantage to p!$$ her off. A slight variation in technique will cause a huge increase in pain and swelling, or could leave a person scarred for life. It's a simple matter to "forgot" to plug in the electrode cable. A person's session will not only be a waste of their money and time, but pulling out all the non treated hair will trigger the body to make MORE hair grow in the areas that were worked on.
Quote from: Virginia on August 24, 2018, 08:58:34 PM
I've learned alot laying on my electrologist's table for 340 hours; it's definitely NOT to a client's advantage to p!$$ her off.
Lol. My electro lady is as sweet as pie. I was just joking about pissing her off:) But yes, I agree...don't mess with someone who has a lightning rod stuck in your face!
Had a session of electrolysis today and very happy with it. I actually look forward to it everytime I go in as it makes me feel so much better about myself afterward. It can sting, but the results are so worth it. My session today was 90 minutes and that cleared my entire face (everything: neck, cheeks, chin, upper, and lower lip areas). That's the quickest it has been done so far, hence my joy. My electrologist has been trying a new technique the last 2 sessions. Instead of one big blast per hair, she now does 3 pulses while going in and 3 pulses while going out. I'm optimistic this method will produce a higher kill rate. Hang in there everyone. We will get through this. One other thing I've been trying to take my mind off the pain: holding a frozen water bottle. The cold in my hands serves as a distraction for my mind. This is in addition to the topicals and the Advil.
Quote from: Breeze 57 on August 25, 2018, 05:41:15 PM
Had a session of electrolysis today and very happy with it. I actually look forward to it everytime I go in as it makes me feel so much better about myself afterward. It can sting, but the results are so worth it. My session today was 90 minutes and that cleared my entire face (everything: neck, cheeks, chin, upper, and lower lip areas). That's the quickest it has been done so far, hence my joy. My electrologist has been trying a new technique the last 2 sessions. Instead of one big blast per hair, she now does 3 pulses while going in and 3 pulses while going out. I'm optimistic this method will produce a higher kill rate. Hang in there everyone. We will get through this. One other thing I've been trying to take my mind off the pain: holding a frozen water bottle. The cold in my hands serves as a distraction for my mind. This is in addition to the topicals and the Advil.
Hey Breeze. You got me confused, interested, and amazed at the same time. How on earth did you get your entire face cleared in 90 minutes!? (It sounds like you're describing a laser treatment and not electrolysis.) How many hours have you completed in total? I've spent 30+ hours on my chin alone! Can you please elaborate a bit more? I'd love to know the recipe and the name of this new "3-pulse" technique your electrologist used. Thank you!
Heather: First off, let me say, I think my electrologist is amazing and I feel fortunate to have her. She is very innovative and has had clients from all over the world. I started electrolysis at the very end of December 2017, so I've been at it for appr. 8 full months now. At most I only do one time a week (I do weekends) and in total I probably have maybe 60 hours in. I didn't keep an accurate hours count the first few months. I know in the last 3 months I have a total of 6 hours her chair. Admittedly, I've never had a full/thick beard, but it wasn't sparse either. Probably a little less than average. I've only done electrolysis, never had any laser treatments. Everytime I go now it is a full clearing which I absolutely love. I have to say, even my electrologist was happy she got completely done with me in 90 minutes. I'm not sure her "techniques" have a name or if she just tries new things, but she tells me she tries to keep the hair guessing and varies her methods. I think she is kind of experimenting to see if this is more effective. This 3 in and 3 out method does take more time though so the number of hairs treated per hour will decrease. And if she finds resistant hairs, she will treat them twice or sometimes even 3 times. I don't know all the technicalities, but I know on the one pulse method, she used "chin 8" with a duration of a quarter of a second pulse. With the 3-pulse method, I'm not sure of the intensity, but the duration per pulse is much shorter. I know everytime she pushes the pedal, the machine gives 3 pulses.
Hope this helps. I know she gives a lot of talks at electrology conferences, so I think she is pretty well known in that circle. I know I read other gals experiences with facial hair removal and I feel so grateful.
Quote from: Karen on August 24, 2018, 11:06:09 AM
Wow... that's awesome. Whats about red bumps? I did a couple of paths with my electrolist and ended up with red bumps that took a long time to get rid of. Maybe it was the heat...??
Thanks
Karen
Welts and red bumps were a problem my first session. Now I just take Benadryl before hand and don't get the histamine reaction any more. I'm getting great lip and chin clearance
Quote from: Breeze 57 on August 25, 2018, 10:55:23 PM
Heather: First off, let me say, I think my electrologist is amazing and I feel fortunate to have her. She is very innovative and has had clients from all over the world. I started electrolysis at the very end of December 2017, so I've been at it for appr. 8 full months now. At most I only do one time a week (I do weekends) and in total I probably have maybe 60 hours in. I didn't keep an accurate hours count the first few months. I know in the last 3 months I have a total of 6 hours her chair. Admittedly, I've never had a full/thick beard, but it wasn't sparse either. Probably a little less than average. I've only done electrolysis, never had any laser treatments. Everytime I go now it is a full clearing which I absolutely love. I have to say, even my electrologist was happy she got completely done with me in 90 minutes. I'm not sure her "techniques" have a name or if she just tries new things, but she tells me she tries to keep the hair guessing and varies her methods. I think she is kind of experimenting to see if this is more effective. This 3 in and 3 out method does take more time though so the number of hairs treated per hour will decrease. And if she finds resistant hairs, she will treat them twice or sometimes even 3 times. I don't know all the technicalities, but I know on the one pulse method, she used "chin 8" with a duration of a quarter of a second pulse. With the 3-pulse method, I'm not sure of the intensity, but the duration per pulse is much shorter. I know everytime she pushes the pedal, the machine gives 3 pulses.
Hope this helps. I know she gives a lot of talks at electrology conferences, so I think she is pretty well known in that circle. I know I read other gals experiences with facial hair removal and I feel so grateful.
Wow. Nice. Where is she located, if you are comfortable sharing.
Thanks
Karen
I wasn't sure if that was allowed as I wasn't sure if it was considered advertising or what not. But I'm just a client of hers and don't receive any financial benefits or discounts. I will sing her praises day and night though as she has helped me both with hair removal and psychologically as well. I've told her a session with her is just as good as any therapy session I've been to. She is a transwoman too and as such, can really relate to the problems I've encountered early on in my journey. Her name is Belle Brine and she is located in Champaign, Illinois. She was affiliated as an outside contractor with Dr. Zukowski and offered high volume hair removal in the Chicago area. That service is still available at Dr. Zukowski's office by a friend and former business partner of Belle's. She just does normal electrolysis at her Champaign office, but still does initial consultations for the large volume sedated hair removal. I'm sure that is where I will go when and if I need to prep for bottom surgery.
Belle has had some health issues and has scaled back somewhat to concentrate on that. I actually look forward to my sessions with her and consider her my friend. I've never electrolysis with anyone else so I can't really compare, but I hope everyone is as good and professional as her.
Quote from: Breeze 57 on August 26, 2018, 09:00:52 AM
Her name is Belle Brine and she is located in Champaign, Illinois. She was affiliated as an outside contractor with Dr. Zukowski and offered high volume hair removal in the Chicago area. That service is still available at Dr. Zukowski's office by a friend and former business partner of Belle's.
Belle and her associate, Irina Cardos were the ones I had do my volume (full face and neck) hair removal under sedation and local lidocaine/epinephrine anesthetic injections, a total of 90 hours in four sessions spaced 6 weeks apart. When Irina started her own salon business, I continued electrolysis under her care alone. I'm still going to Irina. I have my annual maintenance session scheduled for next month at her salon in Chicago. As Breeze mentioned, she now runs the volume hair removal practice at the Zukowski Center in Wilmette, IL. Irina is very trans friendly, conscientious, and, most importantly in my opinion, willing and able to adjust her treatment technique and regimen to achieve the most efficient results for each client's unique situation. I highly recommend Irina.
Quote from: Breeze 57 on August 25, 2018, 10:55:23 PM
Heather: First off, let me say, I think my electrologist is amazing and I feel fortunate to have her. She is very innovative and has had clients from all over the world. I started electrolysis at the very end of December 2017, so I've been at it for appr. 8 full months now. At most I only do one time a week (I do weekends) and in total I probably have maybe 60 hours in. I didn't keep an accurate hours count the first few months. I know in the last 3 months I have a total of 6 hours her chair. Admittedly, I've never had a full/thick beard, but it wasn't sparse either. Probably a little less than average. I've only done electrolysis, never had any laser treatments. Everytime I go now it is a full clearing which I absolutely love. I have to say, even my electrologist was happy she got completely done with me in 90 minutes. I'm not sure her "techniques" have a name or if she just tries new things, but she tells me she tries to keep the hair guessing and varies her methods. I think she is kind of experimenting to see if this is more effective. This 3 in and 3 out method does take more time though so the number of hairs treated per hour will decrease. And if she finds resistant hairs, she will treat them twice or sometimes even 3 times. I don't know all the technicalities, but I know on the one pulse method, she used "chin 8" with a duration of a quarter of a second pulse. With the 3-pulse method, I'm not sure of the intensity, but the duration per pulse is much shorter. I know everytime she pushes the pedal, the machine gives 3 pulses.
Hope this helps. I know she gives a lot of talks at electrology conferences, so I think she is pretty well known in that circle. I know I read other gals experiences with facial hair removal and I feel so grateful.
Hi Breeze. My electrolysis does almost the very same thing. Depending the type of hair, she will zap it 2 to 3 times before she pulls it out and then zaps it another 2 to 3 times after she removes it. It does take longer but it is much more efficient. My first treatment was only 1 hour but she did 2 patches on both of my cheeks. The hair has yet to grow back there. But now, my chin is very different. I did 2 hours on just my chin and it has grown just a little lighter than before any treatments. Perhaps you could mention this to your electrolysis In a delicate manner as to not piss her off? So many other threads about this subject suggest that slow is best to reduce the potential for damage. Hang in there Heather! It just takes time.
Hugs,
Donica.
I freaked out the first time when I heard that electrolysis destroys the growth center of hair follicles. But then, I realized it's to get rid of all the excess hair. When you hear about hair removal treatment methods, it puts you in a state of panic because you're confused whether it could affect the hair on your head or just localized bundles of hair. :laugh:
Anyway, I've undergone laser hair removal treatment once and the folks claimed to use special state-of-the-art aesthetic medical devices (https://www.venusconcept.com/en-ca). I recommend it because it's highly versatile but the after-effects included irritation in the form of inflammation and itching at where the lasers were pointed. The worst part was these were recurring but side effects vary based on individuals- I have super sensitive skin.
Hoping to find a good certified Dermatologist to get electrolysis done.
Quote from: nancy_james on September 11, 2018, 11:15:15 PM
Hoping to find a good certified Dermatologist to get electrolysis done.
Hi Nancy,
Most electrologists are not dermatologists, and one does not have to be one to be good at performing hair removal. Having said that, it is important to find a well qualified
licensed electrologist. They should be experienced in the art and equipped with up-to-date equipment capable of both RF (flash), galvanic, and blend (galvanic + RF) modalities.
Thanks for that tip, Miss Clara.
I had always thought the other way around ::)
Quote from: JudiBlueEyes on August 18, 2018, 11:13:33 AM
Heather it will take what it will take.... Hang in there!
^ This. I have had several hours of laser and electrolysis sessions, probably $2000 into in total, and while the beard is lightened if I let it grow out, it is still there. If I am feeling really dysphoric on a particular day, I might shave a couple of times and blend foundation over it. I have a mix of dark hair and gray.