Hi everyone,
I've been a bit of a lurker recently and finally made an account. I'm trying to gather as much information as I can (and ideally I'd like to see a few results pics) of Sutin and Kamol vaginoplasties. I saw a few on RealSelf (but I've heard that those are cherrypicked) and I found a ->-bleeped-<- that collected a whole bunch of results from different surgeons, but even then both of these barely have any entries. I read one rather bleak forum post about Kamol, but not much else. Right now I'm trying to narrow down my list of Thai surgeons (Suporn and Chett are on there too) and these two were promising at a glance, but the lack of resources is a little unnerving. (Also, the lady that handles emails for PAI does a pretty poor job answering questions which is also unnerving). If anyone here has had first hand SRS experience with either of them, I would be super grateful to hear from you!
Welcome to Susan's Place! I'm sure the people who have used those surgeons will chime in, but I'm curious: You want to see other people's vaginas, do you intend to post yours online? I'm post-op (orchiectomy) and love the penis-only result, but despite my love of nudity, I have no intention of posting pictures of my genitals online. Maybe it could help the next person, but I'm just not crossing that bridge.
See you around the site!
Hugs, Devlyn
Quote from: Devlyn on September 06, 2018, 09:12:09 PM
Welcome to Susan's Place! I'm sure the people who have used those surgeons will chime in, but I'm curious: You want to see other people's vaginas, do you intend to post yours online? I'm post-op (orchiectomy) and love the penis-only result, but despite my love of nudity, I have no intention of posting pictures of my genitals online. Maybe it could help the next person, but I'm just not crossing that bridge.
See you around the site!
Hugs, Devlyn
I obviously don't have one or else I wouldn't have asked, but yes, very much so. Especially if I pick one of the surgeons that lack resources, it's been very frustrating the lack of knowledge on them and I'd like to alleviate that. Also, my main question was regarding first hand EXPERIENCES. Pics are a plus, but I just wanna hear first hand accounts of people's hopefully-not-nightmarish-surgeries.
Good on ya! My observation is that someone will badmouth every surgeon (usually the staff of another surgeon's office), and someone will praise every surgeon (usually the people who have used the surgeon). :laugh:
Quote from: Devlyn on September 06, 2018, 09:30:57 PM
Good on ya! My observation is that someone will badmouth every surgeon (usually the staff of another surgeon's office), and someone will praise every surgeon (usually the people who have used the surgeon). :laugh:
Yea, I know from experience that 100 happy customers will stay perfectly quite and 1 unhappy one will speak up loudly, which is why I'm trying to figure out if that one post about Kamol is just that 1 unhappy customer or not. I just wanna do my research and get it right the first time. (And hopefully not be there on that surgeon's off day either)
I had some healing complications. I had covered the whole process start to finish here on the site. (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,224375.0.html)
The incision opened up one night and I woke up in a pool of blood. Believe me, it was a nightmare, but I tried not to tell it in a nightmarish tone. Deviating from the expected normal recovery led to a lot of stress and uncertainty. I thought I was equipped to handle the risks, I felt well informed. But I tumbled like a house of cards. Being prepared for something not perfect is paramount. We hope for the best, but things do go wrong, not always on the operating table. You have to be ready for that possibility.
As I said, I had a great surgery, and a separate healing issue. I gave my surgeon, Dr Oates, glowing reviews for the work done, and also for seeing me immediately about the incision issues.
Do your homework, know the risks and realities of what you're getting into.
Hugs, Devlyn
Dr Sutin did my srs almost 3 years ago and my results have been excellent. Great aesthetics and amazing orgasms. I have a foundation to finance Thai tgs for HRT medical checks, therapy and srs. We chose PAI for many reasons, I posted a review on thai surgeons some 3 years ago.
The surgeons you mentioned are all very capable. That being said there is a 10pct chance of problems for all surgeons. Problems with each surgeon has been a regular topic in the forum over the years. Dont fall for the fancy marketing that certain surgeon have about their unique procedure that allows them to charge a crazy price. The fair price for this should be usd 8.500. Its a 2 to 3 hour procedure. The procedure is basically the same for the surgeons mentioned, after all they had the same professor teaching them, Dr Preecha.
Please address your enquiry to PAI to the attention of Khun Jessie.
You can find some results for these surgeon if you search for A collection of links to photos of SRS results, however there's not much independent information available about Kamol.
Quote from: warlockmaker on September 06, 2018, 10:37:20 PM
Dr Sutin did my srs almost 3 years ago and my results have been excellent. Great aesthetics and amazing orgasms. I have a foundation to finance Thai tgs for HRT medical checks, therapy and srs. We chose PAI for many reasons, I posted a review on thai surgeons some 3 years ago.
The surgeons you mentioned are all very capable. That being said there is a 10pct chance of problems for all surgeons. Problems with each surgeon has been a regular topic in the forum over the years. Dont fall for the fancy marketing that certain surgeon have about their unique procedure that allows them to charge a crazy price. The fair price for this should be usd 8.500. Its a 2 to 3 hour procedure. The procedure is basically the same for the surgeons mentioned, after all they had the same professor teaching them, Dr Preecha.
Please address your enquiry to PAI to the attention of Khun Jessie.
Hello there, I've heard that Suporn uses left over nerves from the glans to create a second "G Spot" inside the vagina, do you know if Sutin does this as well? Is it standard of Thai surgeons or just an outlier? How can I get ahold of Khun? So far I've only gotten ahold of Peera and like I mentioned, she doesn't answer any seem to answer questions the first three times you ask. Also if you don't mind me asking, did you have hair removal before, and if not, was there any growth inside the vagina afterwards?
Quote from: AnonyMs on September 07, 2018, 02:01:47 AM
You can find some results for these surgeon if you search for A collection of links to photos of SRS results, however there's not much independent information available about Kamol.
Yea, unfortunately the only thing I've found on Kamol was a thread about this girl that went, didn't like the vibes, and left without getting the surgery. That same thread had a few responses saying things like "people only go there if it's the only option that works with their finances" and stuff like that. But then I've also found good reviews on RealSelf which I know you have to take with a grain of salt. That's why I was really hoping to be able to talk to some people that have gone there themselves.
Quote from: Nemo89 on September 07, 2018, 07:40:33 PM
Hello there, I've heard that Suporn uses left over nerves from the glans to create a second "G Spot" inside the vagina, do you know if Sutin does this as well?
I believe that's only Suporn.
You could try looking at Dr Burin's results also. Presumably they are similar to Dr Sutin's since they work together. There's 2 sets of those that I know of, plus the 3 of Dr Sutins.
There's quite a lot of photo's for Chettawut and Suporn. None for Kamol.
What are you looking for in a surgeon?
Quote from: AnonyMs on September 08, 2018, 07:51:59 AM
I believe that's only Suporn.
You could try looking at Dr Burin's results also. Presumably they are similar to Dr Sutin's since they work together. There's 2 sets of those that I know of, plus the 3 of Dr Sutins.
There's quite a lot of photo's for Chettawut and Suporn. None for Kamol.
What are you looking for in a surgeon?
In general for SRS my priorities are 1) Aesthetics 2) Function 3) Depth
If it looks great and feels great, I would be super happy even if I only have 2" of depth, conversely, if I have 8" of depth but it looks all mangled up, I will be very unhappy.
As far as what I want in a surgeon, someone with skill and predictable results is a good thing to have. Also, rather important, someone I can afford lol.
The only reason I mentioned the secondary g-spot thing is just the notion that the neoclitoris is created from a small portion of the glans and the rest is discarded is just so...shameful! Those poor little nerves can continue living elsewhere.
I guess as an add-on to my original post then....ladies that have undergone SRS with one of the aforementioned surgeons....how is your clitoral sensation?
Dr Sutin was my surgeon. I have great clitoral sensation and today have both vaginal orgasms and clitoral orgasms. Its important to remember the path to orgasms after srs is very different to when we were males. Once you know the way the rest is easy.
Aesthetically its great, but like every surgeon, to get that super look you need a secondary surgery a year or more later. Many fine changes e.g lowering the inner labia to the vagina entrance, need you to stop dilation for 2 weeks while it heals.
Depth is 6 inches, Its very much the standard depth offered by all the surgeons in Thailand. You can request greater depth which may require skin grafting. I am not a fan of skin grafting as I have seen many cases that resulted in more swelling in recovery.
Quote from: Nemo89 on September 08, 2018, 08:44:12 PM
As far as what I want in a surgeon, someone with skill and predictable results is a good thing to have.
I don't think you can ascertain if a surgeon has predicable results if you can't find out much about them. The more you can find out the more reliable your estimation of them will be, for better or worse.
Quote from: Nemo89 on September 08, 2018, 08:44:12 PM
In general for SRS my priorities are 1) Aesthetics 2) Function 3) Depth
If it looks great and feels great, I would be super happy even if I only have 2" of depth, conversely, if I have 8" of depth but it looks all mangled up, I will be very unhappy.
Aesthetics should be relatively easy, what did you think of the photo's you saw?
You don't often hear reports of no sensation or bad function from Thailand. I'd watch out for vaginal hair since I've heard a number of cases of that in the last few years, from all surgeons.
Why are you so interested in Kamol?
Quote from: warlockmaker on September 08, 2018, 10:31:55 PM
Dr Sutin was my surgeon. I have great clitoral sensation and today have both vaginal orgasms and clitoral orgasms. Its important to remember the path to orgasms after srs is very different to when we were males. Once you know the way the rest is easy.
Aesthetically its great, but like every surgeon, to get that super look you need a secondary surgery a year or more later. Many fine changes e.g lowering the inner labia to the vagina entrance, need you to stop dilation for 2 weeks while it heals.
Depth is 6 inches, Its very much the standard depth offered by all the surgeons in Thailand. You can request greater depth which may require skin grafting. I am not a fan of skin grafting as I have seen many cases that resulted in more swelling in recovery.
Thank you so much for your help. Do you know if revisions are included in the cost or an extra charge? What about location of the facility/hotel, was there a grocery store nearby? Did any staff pick you up/drop you off at the airport? Who did you talk to to set up consultation/surgery? The person named Peera who has been responding to my messages is kinda like pulling teeth trying to get any answers about anything.
Quote from: AnonyMs on September 09, 2018, 04:50:35 AM
I don't think you can ascertain if a surgeon has predicable results if you can't find out much about them. The more you can find out the more reliable your estimation of them will be, for better or worse.
Aesthetics should be relatively easy, what did you think of the photo's you saw?
You don't often hear reports of no sensation or bad function from Thailand. I'd watch out for vaginal hair since I've heard a number of cases of that in the last few years, from all surgeons.
Why are you so interested in Kamol?
I originally found out about him a few years ago when I was looking for someone that would do a cosmetic SRS. Suporn refused and at the time I wasn't too sure about Chettawut, I think that's when a bunch of scary sounding posts and blogs were appearing. The pictures I saw on Kamol's website looked pretty good, he was definitely cheap enough to pique my interest without being so cheap that it raised immediate red flags, and his facility seemed pretty good in general. It's not that I'm "so interested" in him particularly, it's just that I want to consider all my options. I've seen bad stuff about the two big name surgeons too, so I know full and well that I can go to Suporn's team in two years and end up with a buried penis, or go to Chettawut and end up with a gaping hole filled with hair, but I know there are plenty of good results from them as well. I'm just doing my homework so I can feel good about whoever I choose to take the risk with.
The only surgeons who don't have bad stories about them are the ones that don't have many (or any) stories about them at all. Kamol is an unknown from that point of view, as are most SRS surgeons in Thailand. There are a few surgeons that have large number of bad stories (and photos) compared to the good, but I don't think any are in Thailand.
I think this applies
"Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evidence_of_absence
I was scanning for more Kamol feedback, looking for anything to cast doubt on my decision to use Kamol (yeah, its a quirk I have with big decisions that I've already made) and thought I'd jump in with some info/perception. I'm there (Kamol Hospital) right now, GCS surgery scheduled for the day after tomorrow. Some really basic answers to questions I saw above..... yes they pick you up from the airport; the facility is quite nice and very professional as are the staff. There are supermarkets within a couple hundred meters and restaurants everywhere. I found an organic section for fruits/veggies for my smoothies which don't seem quite so appealing with the over abundance of awesome and inexpensive dining within steps of here.
For the subjective stuff, the girls I've talked to here are all very positive about their results. I came here because one of my in-laws is Thai with lots of TG friends in Bangkok and after asking around for me said Dr Kamol is considered among the very best all the surgeons here. Did not come looking for handholding, just skill and professionalism. There are enough variables in any surgery and this one is no exception. Statistically in any large group there are going to be complications with a few (and a lot if the Dr sucks) so the vocal critics will always be out there. I'll chime back in if anything negative and noteworthy happens but so far I'm impressed. Also this facility is internationally accredited which is not easy to get; no amateur hour undertaking.
So good luck in your research quest and final decision. And one final comment, which is kind of a repeat with elaboration, is that 'yes' if you get a totally bad vibe from a particular surgeon its hard to go with them regardless of reputation/results but keep in mind you are not meeting your new best friend and drinking buddy. You are hiring the best talent to give you the best chance of getting what you want and need. Sorry but I'm not sentimental about that side of things and I've already gone down that path with FFS and BA, picking by talent over bedside manner.....but of course to each their own! No factory approved way to take this journey.
Maddie, welcome to Susan's Place. And best wishes for your surgery! Great post, I appreciate your sharing information and experiences.
This was your first post so I'll add information to help with navigation and site guidelines.
Things that you should read
Site Terms of Service & Rules to Live By (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) | Standard Terms & Definitions (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,54369.0.html) | Post Ranks (including when you can upload an avatar) (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,114.0.html.) | Cautionary Note (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,82221.0.html) |
Reputation rules (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,18960.0.html) | News posting & quoting guidelines (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,174951.0.html) | Photo, avatars, & signature images policy (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,59974.msg383866.html#msg383866) | Membership Agreement (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,216851.0.html) |
When you get a chance, it would be great if you can introduce yourself in the Introductions Forum. (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,8.0.html)
So glad to see you here!
Kendra
Thanks for the welcome Kendra. I will get to reading those instructions soon.
Been kind of focused with recovery the last couple weeks so here is an update for anyone following after where I jumped in. The surgery went well, I tend to recover quickly from anesthesia and this was the same. However get prepared for laying on you back for what seems like forever (ok, it was five days....the mind plays tricks). So many bad movies to watch.
As far as the hospital, no change in impressions, actually more positive than before. The staff has been really attentive and professional, pretty I want for nothing. I've been discharged for a week now, living on the apartment floor (read that as a spacious hotel room) and going to dilations twice a day. Very mobile at this point and was actually quite mobile at 1 week post op. Of course the idea of going horseback riding doesn't hold much appeal as tenderness is definitely there.
So I need to give it some time to have the surgical result heal to a point where I can make a definitive statement. The early verdict is that it looks good in its sore and swollen way. As I visualize it with the swelling down my guess is that its going to look very good. All the bits and pieces are there in the right places and proportions.
Depth is currently about 13-14 cm and my hope is to get to 14-15 (the truth is I want to get to 15). It is not comfortable for me to dilate with trying to stretch it deeper. A pain vs gain thing with no promise on the gain part. I'll update that too. All for now, steady as she goes, and thumbs up on the experience here to date.
Good to hear its going so well.
I'm curious why there's so little published about Kamol. I wonder if his patients are mainly from non-English speaking backgrounds? Have you met any of his other patients?
FWIW, I recently watched a series about a trans woman who had surgery with Dr. Kamol. The series was on a Toronto TV station, CITY TV.
https://toronto.citynews.ca/topic/transgender-surgery-in-thailand/ (https://toronto.citynews.ca/topic/transgender-surgery-in-thailand/)
Hi Maddiev,
I take it you went to see Dr. Kamol? would really like to hear about more of your experience.
Hope your healing well,
Sam x