Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone,

Well I've been on HRT for a month now and I have to say I do love it. My skin is clearing up, hair is becoming less terminal all over my body and to some degree on my face (which is probably because I'm only 16) and a couple of other things have happened that I really do enjoy like brest developement (and I think some degree of vocal feminization)... but I've noticed that now that all of this is happening for me I want to be around people my own age and start dating or at least psuedo-dating guys, which is what school is very good for. The only problem is that I decided about 3 years ago to go into a home-schooling program and I, unfortunately, cut myself off from doing most of those things... well actually all of those things if you really want to get technical.

So anyway without futhur rambling my question is should I or should I not go back to regular school and please look at this from a safety stand point as well as a social stand point as many of you know that there are safety risks. ;)

Anyway thanks for all your help and/or opinions everyone.

I think you ought to.
  There were a few home-schooled people that joined during A-levels, and it was clear that although intellectually they were fine, their social awkwardness was a real handicap for them, and would most likely remain so all their lives.
  It is dangerous, and could go very unpleasantly, but those social skills (with the girls as well as the boys  ;) ) are important and useful, and will probably help your self confidence no end.

Since I do not know where you are my options for answering are limited.  but...

-do you really fancy asking people for the rest of your life 'if they want fries with that?"  If not education might not be a bad idea.

- many large cities in the US NYC, SF, LA have safe schools created for GLT students.  That might be an option.

-Take the GED and go straight to the local Community College

-Home schooling in most areas of the United States has a very bad rep, and its well deserved.

Hey Krista,

As someone who started HRT when I was only 15 and went through both junior and senior high in my chosen gender, I would have to highly recommend going to a regular school. There can and will always be some issues and potential problems with other kids if they find out, but also those are some of the most formative years for everyone and I personally believe you would miss out on a lot of what it means to be a teenage girl.

Of course you'll have to deal with the school on such issues as bathroom policy and gym locker room policy too...sometimes they can be really jerks about those things too. But in my opinion, those battles are well worth the experiences you'll have.

Like I usually point out, only you can decide what is right for you and your situation; given your age, you will most likely have to convince your parents too and we all know how dense they can be at times!

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre

Quote from: Pica Pica on January 01, 2008, 10:28:21 PM
I think you ought to.
  There were a few home-schooled people that joined during A-levels, and it was clear that although intellectually they were fine, their social awkwardness was a real handicap for them, and would most likely remain so all their lives.
  It is dangerous, and could go very unpleasantly, but those social skills (with the girls as well as the boys  ;) ) are important and useful, and will probably help your self confidence no end.

Thats my opinion as well, not to mention I soooo lonely doing home school and I like to make some friends and graduate with my grade. Not to mention the fact that your more then likely right that it will increase my self confidence level, even though right now I'm pretty confident. ;D

Quote from: tekla on January 02, 2008, 12:30:54 AM
Since I do not know where you are my options for answering are limited.  but...

-do you really fancy asking people for the rest of your life 'if they want fries with that?"  If not education might not be a bad idea.

- many large cities in the US NYC, SF, LA have safe schools created for GLT students.  That might be an option.

-Take the GED and go straight to the local Community College

-Home schooling in most areas of the United States has a very bad rep, and its well deserved.

Actually I live in Northern California and where I live isn't really dangerous rather then dangerous when you get caught (possibly) so with that said I don't think I'll need to worry. Not to mention I have a cousin who will be going to the same high school with me that will beat the (Insert word of choice here) if someone were to try to hurt me or mess with me.

I'm actually not getting out because the home schooling either BTW. I'm just really lonely and I kinda want to be able to go to school where I can interact with people my own age and really, for no other choice of words to use, to be a popular girl... which I will be. Ever since I got on these hormones I've become really confident and I have made (and I know this will sound dumb) Avril Lavigne the singer my role model and she is confident. ;D

Social interaction is the prime reason for school in the first place.  In the real world, its perhaps the most important skill.  No matter what you do you're pretty much going to have to interact with other people. 

Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on January 02, 2008, 12:51:47 AM
Hey Krista,

As someone who started HRT when I was only 15 and went through both junior and senior high in my chosen gender, I would have to highly recommend going to a regular school. There can and will always be some issues and potential problems with other kids if they find out, but also those are some of the most formative years for everyone and I personally believe you would miss out on a lot of what it means to be a teenage girl.

Of course you'll have to deal with the school on such issues as bathroom policy and gym locker room policy too...sometimes they can be really jerks about those things too. But in my opinion, those battles are well worth the experiences you'll have.

Like I usually point out, only you can decide what is right for you and your situation; given your age, you will most likely have to convince your parents too and we all know how dense they can be at times!

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre

I totally agree with what your saying and I really know if I don't go back to regular high school I will miss out on lots of things and it will definitely make a difference in my life.

Now about the gym locker/bathroom thing... I think I may know a way around this although it would be a legal mess if I decided to do what I'm thinking about. So I probably won't go that route and I'll see if I can get a letter from my endo and psychologist telling them that I physically just not attracted to females... which is actually true.

You are actually dead right about the parent thing. My dad thinks that it is not a good idea and my mom thinks it is equally not a good idea... I'll talk them into it though as I really want to do this and I'm actually really excited about doing it now.

Thanks for the input Isabelle. ;D

Posted on: January 02, 2008, 01:07:34 AM

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Quote from: tekla on January 02, 2008, 01:04:12 AM
Social interaction is the prime reason for school in the first place.  In the real world, its perhaps the most important skill.  No matter what you do you're pretty much going to have to interact with other people. 

Definitely and that is why I suggested it to my parents and the more I think about it and talk about it the more I really want to do it.

Quoteand start dating or at least psuedo-dating guys

I hate to rain on your parade but if you were my child I would be frantic at the thought of you going to a regular high school. First of all, high school is a nightmare for many people. If you add in the TS issues and the fact that you want to date then it becomes very, very risky. Do you envision everyone knowing about you and boys wanting to date you? Or no one knowing about you; boys dating you and finding out later? Either scenario sounds fraught with danger to me. If you can find a high school that caters to the LGBT crowd then that might work and add to your life socially. Please be careful and put safety first; fun can come later.

Quote from: saraswatidevi on January 02, 2008, 08:27:39 AM

Quoteand start dating or at least psuedo-dating guys

I hate to rain on your parade but if you were my child I would be frantic at the thought of you going to a regular high school. First of all, high school is a nightmare for many people. If you add in the TS issues and the fact that you want to date then it becomes very, very risky. Do you envision everyone knowing about you and boys wanting to date you? Or no one knowing about you; boys dating you and finding out later? Either scenario sounds fraught with danger to me. If you can find a high school that caters to the LGBT crowd then that might work and add to your life socially. Please be careful and put safety first; fun can come later.

You make a very good point but you've also got to understand that those things can happen whether or not I had the TS factor. Children and especially teenagers can be ruthless and you can get beaten up and possibly even killed if they don't like you.

I do worry about the dating thing and I'll more then likely tell my boyfriends that sex is a no go due to a situation that I'll make up at a later date (something like I had a full hysto and I'm sensitive about doing anything like that because of it.)

The LGBT thing is out though, I don't want to move and the schools around here don't really cater to that and to tell the honest truth I want to be looked upon as a normal teenage girl not a normal teenage girl with a little something extra (if ya know what I mean.)

So anyway I think the benefits outweigh the risks in the long run. I'm pretty sure if I'm convincing enough and I make sure to keep my secret very VERY secret I'll be good. Thank you for worrying though I really appreciate it and I'm open to any other opinions you or anyone else may have. ;)

High school is an all right place depending on where you go and stuff.  I mean, I made tons of friends in high school compared to the state school and community college I've been to now.  If I were you, I'd just look at the good and bad of the situation and see what you want.  Community colleges are hard places to meet people from what I've noticed.  The only reason other colleges are easier is because of the dorms as well, so if you have the chance to go to high school, I probably would. 

I just finished my community college like a couple weeks ago, and in the year and a half I went there, I didn't make one new friend.  The whole atmosphere there is like this, "shut up and don't talk to anyone" type.  I met people, sure, but none that I would ever want to do anything with out of class.  Just ask yourself what you want, and just give it a try :D  If it doesn't work out, can always go back to home schooling, right?

I tend to agree with Pica...

I was terrible at school as far as social skills are concerned, but in hindsight, I'd have been much worse off if I'd not had that interaction with peers. Homeschooling is fine for that short period of transition where you feel like you have 9 left feet, but I think once you're comfortable and confident enough with passing reasonably well (which you should be at 16) you need to get out there.

I might be terribly wrong though, 'cause I've not been in the situation. Only you can judge when and if you're ready to rejoin the big pond...

I would suggest that you find out if the school you are thinking of going to has a Gay Straight Alliance (GSA) and, if they do, talking to some of its members.  They will be the most able to tell you how much risk you'll be taking on and maybe give you an idea on how you'd be treated there.

No matter what you decide though, I wish you luck and success.

hugs & smiles
Emelye

Quote from: Krista on January 02, 2008, 10:58:09 AM
You make a very good point but you've also got to understand that those things can happen whether or not I had the TS factor. Children and especially teenagers can be ruthless and you can get beaten up and possibly even killed if they don't like you.

I do worry about the dating thing and I'll more then likely tell my boyfriends that sex is a no go due to a situation that I'll make up at a later date (something like I had a full hysto and I'm sensitive about doing anything like that because of it.)

The LGBT thing is out though, I don't want to move and the schools around here don't really cater to that and to tell the honest truth I want to be looked upon as a normal teenage girl not a normal teenage girl with a little something extra (if ya know what I mean.)

So anyway I think the benefits outweigh the risks in the long run. I'm pretty sure if I'm convincing enough and I make sure to keep my secret very VERY secret I'll be good. Thank you for worrying though I really appreciate it and I'm open to any other opinions you or anyone else may have. ;)

Hey,

I'd like to add a bit to the conversation here if I may...too late...it's coming anyway...that was a rhetorical question anyway!

I transitioned to full-time during 8th grade and I did have some problems, mostly from people who knew me from the previous school year. At that time I wasn't taking hormones but being young, small, yada, yada, yada, didn't have problems passing in all honesty. During summer break between 8th and 9th I started HRT and had only been on HRT for 2-months when school started...just a few months of HRT at that age had a rather dramatic affect on me and while I didn't pass 100% of the time at the beginning of the school year...by the end of it I had no problems what so ever...

There are some problems that did come up with my transitioning rather publicly in school; first the usually crap about bathrooms and locker rooms was a problem for the school. I did have an advantage though...I grew up in LA and the school district had experience with dealing with trans kids since it had come up in other schools. From an administrative process, I didn't have problems with my school...all my teacher also were great in that they called me by my then name of Geri. (I've gone through a number of names)

My true problems came from people who had known me before my transition; in junior high this was a huge problem. I did frequently have to do with some form of abusive behavior; verbal, physical, or both. 8th grade was the worst...9th grade not so bad...for the most part everyone accepted me for me...

High school wasn't bad and each passing year actually got better. Those that had known me in 8th and 9th grade were far fewer in high school. I did have issues a bit with the school, but not any different then the problems I had with the junior high. By senior year I didn't have any more problems them most teenagers have...and only 2 incidents due to my gender identity problems my senior year.

Now...lets look at just what was gained...even at the possible risk of abuse to myself:

• I gained self confidence in my gender
• I gained tons of social experiences in my gender
• I learned lots of the do's and don'ts you can't really learn otherwise
• It helped me to emotionally become a complete person
• and others...

Yes...there are risks to this...but there are risks for ever trans person every single day of our lives for simply being who we are...if we let that stop us from doing things then those that hate us have won. We cannot continue to live our lives in fear...that is not anyway to live in my opinion...

Like I mentioned before...we can give you advice here and the wonderful thing is that you will get many different views...but as a young transitioner myself...I can say that in my view it was well worth it regardless of the problems I had...but that's just my opinion...

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre

I can relate. I dropped out of high school when I was 16 to transition. Shortly after that, I enrolled in online high school courses. I never had much of a social life or social skills, and really had no desire for either, so I don't know what I'm missing in the social realm. I don't regret dropping out. It forced me to mature in ways that I wouldn't have if I had stayed in school. When I dropped out I started working full time to support my mom (who has never had a job and has lived off my grandma's income all her life) and pay the bills. I have no clue really how teenage guys interact with eachother, nor do I know how teenage girls interact with eachother. However, I have the skills needed to live on my own when I turn 18 and move away to escape my abusive and manipulative mother. I'm sure I'll discover in the future that I'm seriously lacking in the social areas of my life but, eh, oh well. I don't regret it.

Quote from: zombiesarepeaceful on January 03, 2008, 04:29:37 PM
I can relate. I dropped out of high school when I was 16 to transition. Shortly after that, I enrolled in online high school courses. I never had much of a social life or social skills, and really had no desire for either, so I don't know what I'm missing in the social realm. I don't regret dropping out. It forced me to mature in ways that I wouldn't have if I had stayed in school. When I dropped out I started working full time to support my mom (who has never had a job and has lived off my grandma's income all her life) and pay the bills. I have no clue really how teenage guys interact with eachother, nor do I know how teenage girls interact with eachother. However, I have the skills needed to live on my own when I turn 18 and move away to escape my abusive and manipulative mother. I'm sure I'll discover in the future that I'm seriously lacking in the social areas of my life but, eh, oh well. I don't regret it.

Hey,

There are no right or wrong ways to transition...just your own. While it would have been good if you had stayed in school...in my opinion...there are lots of problems when one transitions publicly and during the teenage years...from what you have said here, it sound to me that you are doing the best you can given the cards you've been dealt...while we can always bemoan things, you are at least making forward progress and that is truly what matters...

Keep your chin up and keep moving forward...

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre

Quote from: Isabelle St-Pierre on January 03, 2008, 12:07:24 AM
Hey,

I'd like to add a bit to the conversation here if I may...too late...it's coming anyway...that was a rhetorical question anyway!

I transitioned to full-time during 8th grade and I did have some problems, mostly from people who knew me from the previous school year. At that time I wasn't taking hormones but being young, small, yada, yada, yada, didn't have problems passing in all honesty. During summer break between 8th and 9th I started HRT and had only been on HRT for 2-months when school started...just a few months of HRT at that age had a rather dramatic affect on me and while I didn't pass 100% of the time at the beginning of the school year...by the end of it I had no problems what so ever...

There are some problems that did come up with my transitioning rather publicly in school; first the usually crap about bathrooms and locker rooms was a problem for the school. I did have an advantage though...I grew up in LA and the school district had experience with dealing with trans kids since it had come up in other schools. From an administrative process, I didn't have problems with my school...all my teacher also were great in that they called me by my then name of Geri. (I've gone through a number of names)

My true problems came from people who had known me before my transition; in junior high this was a huge problem. I did frequently have to do with some form of abusive behavior; verbal, physical, or both. 8th grade was the worst...9th grade not so bad...for the most part everyone accepted me for me...

High school wasn't bad and each passing year actually got better. Those that had known me in 8th and 9th grade were far fewer in high school. I did have issues a bit with the school, but not any different then the problems I had with the junior high. By senior year I didn't have any more problems them most teenagers have...and only 2 incidents due to my gender identity problems my senior year.

Now...lets look at just what was gained...even at the possible risk of abuse to myself:

• I gained self confidence in my gender
• I gained tons of social experiences in my gender
• I learned lots of the do's and don'ts you can't really learn otherwise
• It helped me to emotionally become a complete person
• and others...

Yes...there are risks to this...but there are risks for ever trans person every single day of our lives for simply being who we are...if we let that stop us from doing things then those that hate us have won. We cannot continue to live our lives in fear...that is not anyway to live in my opinion...

Like I mentioned before...we can give you advice here and the wonderful thing is that you will get many different views...but as a young transitioner myself...I can say that in my view it was well worth it regardless of the problems I had...but that's just my opinion...

Peace and love,
Isabelle St-Pierre

That is pretty much what I think too. Your right too, there are risks but you have to also figure there are risks in anything that is worth doing and personally I really feel that I do need to do this reguardless of the risks an circumstances that I could potentionally get into.

No to mention like I have told my parents I refuse to live in fear because of this. In my mind I'm a normal teenage GIRL nothing more nothing less and above all I'm Krista which is the most important thing.

I do appreciate your opinions Isabelle as I can definitely say they spoke to me and that really goes for everyone else who replied to this thread. So really thank you all. I look forward to hearing more of all of your opinions. ;)

QuoteSince I do not know where you are my options for answering are limited.  but...

-do you really fancy asking people for the rest of your life 'if they want fries with that?"  If not education might not be a bad idea.

- many large cities in the US NYC, SF, LA have safe schools created for GLT students.  That might be an option.

-Take the GED and go straight to the local Community College

-Home schooling in most areas of the United States has a very bad rep, and its well deserved.

   

I take exception to that. I was homeschooled nearly all my life. Now I'm attending the top-rated liberal arts college in the United States (look it up in U.S. News, we've been #1 for more than five years) and I'm doing great. Homeschoolers have higher SAT scores on average than non-homeschoolers. Yes, there are some people who should definitely NOT homeschool their kids, but there are an equal number of SCHOOLS that should not school kids.

By the way, do you want Russian Literature with that?

There are several situations where home schooling might work out, the tendency is that for the most part its used by people who do not seek a 'better' education, but one where they want to 'opt out' of part of the standard course of studies - modern science in particular.  And the SAT scores are skewed, as not all home schooled children take the SATs, so there is no baseline to take a comparison from.  If that was the criteria, (high SAT scores) then what you want to do is put them in a Catholic school, because Catholic school students have the highest SAT scores of any group (largely because they have 'weeded out' the non-performers before graduation so they don't factor in).  Of course, SAT scores are of little use in predicting academic success, which is why many colleges do not even use them, or require them, anymore.  When they are used, its in combination with High School GPA, which is done (or should be) in a competitive environment.

The caveat about the USN&WR studies is that not all schools give that information out, so its a number one ranking (given the criteria that USN&WR deems is critical) of the institutions that submitted the information.  Though I'm sure its a fine school, and like any college its only as good as the work your are willing to put into it.  And looking at those criteria I'm not all that sure they matter equally.  My undergrad school has a small theater arts department (it was my minor) and given a lot of criteria, would not make that grade.  However, a few years ago a study did find it to be number one in at least one area - the number of graduates working in (some fashion) the entertainment industry.  Which, if that is your goal, might be the only thing that really matters.  Would you rather have a degree from the number one TA department and be working in a cubicle farm somewhere, or would you rather go to the number fourteen TA department and work in show biz?   

STILL.... the topic really revolves around social interaction (and some other things, like facilities, which for Lit is nothing more than a good/bad book and a teacher, but for physics can get pretty expensive) and the things you learn in HS that are not 'course material.'  In particular, its the experience itself.

Have you ever hung out with a bunch of people who all do the same thing (job, career, or like they are deadheads or Dylan fanatics) and your listening to them talk, and you understand the words they say (most of them) like, its in a language you speak, but you don't have a clue as to what their talking about?  That's what missing high school is like pretty much for the rest of your life, because those years and experiences is one of the few things we all pretty much share.  It can exclude you real fast if you a) don't really understand what they are saying in the subtext and context, and b) don't have some dumb/silly/almost amusing story of your own to add. 

In the real world, college is pretty much the same deal, you went or you didn't.  While everyone fixates on GPA in school, in the real world people don't really ask you about that much. (Same with your major to a large degree.) You went, or you didn't.

But in my two lives, (show biz and academia) what matters is your ability to deal with people, in particular people you might not like, who might not like you, but who you have to work with anyway.  Of all the skills one might have, interpersonal communication (the ability to get information and give information, and to get other people to do what you want them to) is the greatest single predictor of success.

One of the reasons that I wind up heading crews is that I deal well with people, who in an average day range from security staff (who might - might - have a high school degree) to highly trained technical staff (geeks and nerds), to highly educated management types (sharks, complete with fin), and with stars who seem to have some major ego issues (Don't you KNOW who I AM?!) ---- "No, should I?" is not the best answer, which is tragic, though its fun to give sometimes anyway).  But over the years I have worked with all those types, and I can change gears pretty fast when I have to.

The only way to learn how to deal with people is by doing it, and for teenagers, that tends to be high school.

I don't think people realize how much social interaction homeschoolers actually get. I was a member of the band at the local high school, a local homeschooling group, a theater group, a jazz band - the list goes on. I had friends galore in my hometown - still do. Sure, it's possible for a homeschooler to isolate him- or herself from other teenagers, but we don't! If anything, I got more social interaction, and with a wider variety of people (i.e. not just other teenagers).

I actually did homeschool for a "better education" - the local high school was subpar and I was one of only six people in my year to go to a private college. I know you have a concern about homeschoolers tending to be fundamentalists and not teaching evolution (I do, too!) but we're not all (or even mostly) fundies; also, a lot of schools also don't get very deep into evolution either for fear of offending members of the community. I did learn a lot of science, and part of my homeschooling curriculum was writing science columns (two of them dedicated to defending evolution) for the local newspaper.

So, in conclusion, it's possible to do a very bad job of homeschooling - some people aren't equipped for it and can't study independently, interact socially outside of a school setting, or get a comprehensive learning experience. For those who have a reason to, though (i.e. those whose community doesn't offer optimal education, or those who are afraid of bullying and violence), it can be incredibly rewarding!

I returned to my secondary school a while back to have a chat with my teachers, turns out there was a TS kid who was living FT, I didn't have a clue and I don't think anyone else did either.