Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Hi everyone I'm loopyem I'll get right into it I'm a straight female and my husband has recently told me he's transgender and I'm not coping please help

Hi Loopyem,
                      I think you will have the official welcome very soon. I would gladly offer any support or life experience that might help. I am married to a straight cis woman and I am trans.
 
So good to see a wife on the forum,
  Kindest regards, Kirsten.

Sent from my SM-G930F using Tapatalk

Quote from: Loopyem on October 02, 2018, 05:21:33 AM
Hi everyone I'm loopyem I'll get right into it I'm a straight female and my husband has recently told me he's transgender and I'm not coping please help

Hi Loopyyem

You found a good place of support. Transgender encompasses a wide range of people. Some here choose to crossdress and are happy enough with this expression...some have no real fixed gender and are fluid in their way they may present themselves...as either gender or any number of mixtures of both...there are some who require hormones and surgery in a combination again of one or both..these are a couple of small examples of those who maybe considered Transgender. Much depends for many on whether they have to deal with Gender Dysphoria. This can manifest itself in many different ways and quite often in excessively types of behaviour.

I am not a professional and suggest you seek professional advice for both of you. I have barely scratched the service when talking about being transgender and maybe if there is something more specific you really want to know please ask and if I don't know someone else probably will, I may be able to point you in the direction of some information that will help you cope a bit better and alleviate some of your fears.

Take care
Liz

Hi Loppyem,

Welcome on this forum.
I am 53, married with 4 children, and I accepted myself having a gender dysphoria in 2015, with an official diagnosis. It is not a choice, it is. A medical condition, as scientific research prove it better now.
I found a balance to stay with my wife: I take hormones since 3 years, this helps me mentally a lot, but I still present as male at home and at work. I sometimes cross-dress but not when my wife is around as she is not ready to it yet.

I wish you courage as it is never easy to go through such an experience, but live scan be stronger.

Pascale

Hello Loopyem,

You've come to the right place to look for answers. We have a wonderfully understanding and helpful community here. Being the transgender part of a relationship, I can't know what you're feeling now, but I have read what others in your situation are going through, and know it's painful. I recommend first, as others have, finding a good therapist - one who understands gender issues - who can give you guidance. Second, introduce yourself in the Significant Others forum here:

https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/board,26.0.html

That's the place where you'll find others who've come here both seeking help, and to help others.

As an official greeter here, it's my job to introduce you to the guidelines of our site. I know you're not likely to be in a mood to read a bunch of regulations, but they're spelled out pretty clearly, and will answer questions you might have about how to use the forums.

Thank you for being here. We're all ready to help.

Stephanie














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Welcome from me too, as another SO. I can honestly say that this is the most difficult thing I've ever had to cope with, so I do understand how you are feeling.
My partner is now 4 months into hormones, but still presents male (more androgynous) and doesn't plan to come out socially.
The only things I can suggest are:
Therapy - if you can find a good therapist and can afford it - for both of you
Communication - talking to each other is essential
Honesty - you both need to be honest about everything. Don't feel guilty if you find it hard to be supportive, if you are angry, in denial or just downright heartbroken. He too needs to be honest with you about what he wants. Lack of trust and secrecy almost ruined our relationship.
Take it slow - that goes mostly for your partner. Rushing into dresses and wigs overnight is not the best way to keep your wife on board. Try and encourage him to take things as slowly as he can, and to go through everything with you before making any decisions.
Compromise - it may be impossible, depending on how bad his dysphoria is, but can he only go as far as you can cope with? At least in the early days. In our case, my partner shaves his body, wears female underwear, a bit of subtle make up, earrings etc but really nothing too drastic. He won't have surgery, and is on low dose estrogen only - no androgen blockers.

It is hard and I cry all the time, grieving for the future I thought I was going to have and the man I thought I loved, but a year down the line, I'm still here, we are closer than we've ever been, and both feel that our relationship and family life are the most important things.

Good luck

Syl xx

Quote from: Loopyem on October 02, 2018, 05:21:33 AM
Hi everyone I'm loopyem I'll get right into it I'm a straight female and my husband has recently told me he's transgender and I'm not coping please help

@Loopyem
Dear Loopeyem:
Thank you for coming and writing your interesting posting.... your are always welcome here.  Many of our members will now be aware of your arrival to the Forums and will be able to share with you and you with them regarding your questions and comments.

I see that you have already been Officially Welcomed to Susan's Place
by our lovely member  @Steph2.0 ...

Please allow me to also give your a warm Welcome to Susan's Place.
I am thinking that you may have lots more questions and concerns, this is the right place for you to be to find out what others have done that may have been in your circumstances.
Be aware that there are a lot of members here that can identify with your situation..
 
You will find this a safe and friendly place to share with others  and to read about others similar trials, tribulations, and successes.  When frustrated or if you have successes you can share it here on the Forums if you wish and receive support from others and offer support to others. ....

***It's a very good chance that you might find that you will make some new friends here. 
Please come in and continue to be involved at your own pace. 

In her Welcome Message  Stephanie  included Important LINKS that will tell you about Susan's Place.  Included there is information about the site that will help you navigate around and best utilize the features here.   
Please look closely at the LINKS in RED, answers are there to many questions that new members ask.   

Please don't be a stranger, we want to share postings and thoughts with you.

Again, Welcome to Susan's Place.
Danielle

Oh my dear, dear L.

  How very difficult it is for you.  You have the love and sympathy of all of us here at Susan's.

  I guess it comes down to relationships and what they mean for each of you.  I mean there are All Sorts Of Relationships out there.  And ALL relationships shift and twist over time.  You're just going through a sort of rodeo brahama bull ride which is understandably throwing you all over the place.  When there's a moment of calm, think about whether the relationship is worth finishing out the ride or if you just need to get off with as little broken dreams as possible.  And that's also a question worth being seriously talked about with your husband (who's also getting his separate rodeo brahama bull ride).

  And Sylvia has good advise from experience, including that a good therapist can help both of you.  I think that you'll find other good advise in the "wives" thread of the Forum.

  Then, if you both survive the ride you'll find your relationship stronger than it began.  If not, I believe that it is best to try as hard as you can to part as friends who understand that things have changed over time.  You were friends once upon a time.  Remember?
 
  So love and sympathy.  I do hope things work out good for both of you.

      Carolina

 





 

 
     

Hi and welcome to the site.

It is not easy. I am sorry for your challenge.

My wife have been taking it one day at a time for about three years. She told me she was not lesbian. However, she loves me waving her hands up and down my body. not this. the one thing that seems to help is communication. Keep talking and listening. Ask more questions as they come up.

I plan to move this topic into the SO category.

Warmly,
Jacqui

Quote from: Loopyem on October 02, 2018, 05:21:33 AM
Hi everyone I'm loopyem I'll get right into it I'm a straight female and my husband has recently told me he's transgender and I'm not coping please help

Hi again Loopyem,

  I know its a big shock. Wives have enough to deal with in the marriage responsibilities without trans issues thrown on top. The fact that your husband is actually bringing up the issue instead of hiding it until breaking point is potentially a good start.

  Traditionally very few couples stayed together after the transgender issue was raised - but now many couples successfully prevail. It isn't always bad at all.

Its natural to feel things like shock, confusion, anger, deceived, let down, what has my marriage been all this time ? Also the concern that the integrity of the family has been compromised. The feeling of what does the future hold is there any hope ?

  I believe there is much hope and the future can be very bright. I can only offer what my wife and I discovered & and I think others on the forum have had marriage/ relationship successes.

After the trans issue has been revealed - its time for wife and husband to just stop. Time to absorb & consider things before doing anything.

  Talking and discussing and unloading emotions and anger. Then working out the way forward can begin.

  My wife and I both visited psychologists together - trans & non trans specialists.

Scenarios can be from full transition to nothing except private discussion & acceptance.

Your husband probably loves you very much and doesn't want to lose you.

  Like many, I personally didn't want to be trans and tried to solve the issues in a non-life upsetting manner. In the end I had to deal with being trans - it became more intense in my 40's. I was lucky I could talk to my wife - I love her & dont want to lose her.

For me this means I had therapy, I regularly cross dress to relieve the angst of being trans, I'm also on full HRT. I haven't transitioned, I look like a normal husband day to day. I go to work, present male, raise 2 boys 8 & 10 years old.  We have an agreement I dont dress in public. My trans issues are essentially private.
My wife and family are the most important things in my life, but I had to deal with being trans- depression, drinking too much and suicidal thoughts are now a couple of years in the past. Doing nothing would have destroyed me.

We are still together as dedicated parents, we talk, go on holiday as a family & both much happier. I respect her limits on how much femininity I put out there.

PS  I truly wish more wives were here on the forum - they hold the biggest significance when one deals with being trans.

With Kindest regards,
                                  Kirsten.

Wisdom from Experience, Kirsten.  Its good to hear from those who have worked to save a relationship when it is threatened by tremendous change.  Your life provides hope.

    Caroline

I've looked in this thread a bunch of times. Each time I don't post. I don't know where to start. I know that once I start typing it'll end up being a book. There are so many things, some small, some big, some huge, that we deal with as a couple. I went for full unabridged honest communication no matter what it made me look like. I kept at her (my wife) until she did the same (didn't take much really, dam broke :P).

You have to say things with potential to hurt feelings, they have to get out into the open. How you say it is everything. Never discuss in anger or get angry at what is shared. The point is to hear it, absorb it, let your mind work on it and try to fine a balance.

I came out to my wife almost a year ago, I didn't even have answers for me at that point. We learned the answers together. My transition was also hers, a shared experience.

Do we still have hurdles and struggles, yes. We are all the better for it at this time. Tomorrow may change, may get worse, may get better. That's true of life in any relationship.

My wife is on here as DiLoris (Lori). She's new to the forum. I finally got her to sign up instead of reading over my shoulder.

I'll leave it at that before my thoughts go all haywire (well, more so)

Faith

Hi Loopyem. I, too, am a straight female. My husband told me that he was transgender around 15 years ago. We haven't always coped well with it, but we're being inspired by Susans.org. I hope that you have been reading threads here that might help you cope. Wanting to cope well with a challenge is a necessary step to coping well.

Our most constructive conversations might be about what we believe, why we might believe that, and whether we want to update the belief. I wonder if you and your husband do this.

Wisdom, Moonflower.  Communication (not just talking) is so very, very important. 

  Carolina

Hi, LoopyEm.  This is my first post on this site.  My wisdom comes from all of 10 weeks of knowing my husband wants to transition, so in short, I don't know much.  I'm still in the grieving stage and spend a lot of time crying.  The hardest for me is when yet another package of clothing is delivered.  I dread seeing him wearing them, but know that will happen.  I have shared the news with friends who are exclusively *my* friends, not our couple friends.  They have been a great source of support and even know of resources of which I had never heard.  We are lucky to have a great therapist who is very knowledgeable about this "stuff" and is able to help us process the changes and communicate with each other.  If you can find someone like that, I know it would help and is well worth the time and expense.  I think it has been important to learn the vocabulary, e.g., cis, transition, etc., because it makes it easier to communicate.  We have done pretty well with the communication piece.  He seems like a happier person since he came out.  Last week, I learned that he wants the surgeries, and I am having a very hard time imagining him in a different body.  Intellectually, I know it will still be him, but, and god forgive me, it totally grosses me out.  My peeps all want to know what I am going to do, but I have no idea.  It feels like it is an evolving kind of thing and I don't really know where this is going.  And this is not easy for a control freak like me.  I think that I'll be more sure in a year or so.  If this post is disjointed, that's kind of how it is these days.  I truly feel for you and hope you are doing better at keeping it together than me.

Hi Lantana  :icon_wave:

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Hugs

V M

Hi Lantana! I'm impressed by how much progress you gave made in just 10 weeks! To go from knowing nothing, to talking with friends about it is marvelous! I've known that my husband wants to transition for 15 years, and I never felt inclined to share the news until I discovered Susans.org a few weeks ago.

Your therapist sounds like a really valuable resource. Again, I'm impressed by you because I have been meeting with my therapist for over 10 years, and ->-bleeped-<- has never come up. I intend to change that at my next visit, in a couple weeks. I wonder if she will be knowledgeable. She should be after being the President of the local psychologist association.

Like your husband, mine is so much happier "out", and talking about how to continue coming out. He lost all of his extra weight, and has been coming out very gradually. At work, he mustered up the courage to wear clothes that we bought in the women's section, but that didn't look obviously girly. At home, when it's just the two of us, she is a full-time and gorgeous woman.

I'm wondering what you're crying about. I don't recall responding like that at all. What are you grieving? What are you dreading? Do you think that you're losing something?

Lantana, I think you're doing great "keeping it together"!

Welcome. I am transgender MTF. I did not spring it on my wife all at once as she knew before we married that I was a cross-dresser. I did spring it on my first wife and before you know it she was having an affair. What makes it easier today is that information is more freely available. I have now been married to Joann for 35 years. We have two children and soon two granddaughters. To me family is everything but I was willing to risk my family to address my lifetime knowledge that I was not the sex I was born with. On the boy side I am tall 6'5", but I am lacking in the genital area. I tried to live my life as others had determined it for me. All along I hated it. It was a source of ridicule when I was in the locker room. I also found solace and companionship with the girls. Until I started playing little league I really did not have guy friends. Baseball was the only athletic thing I was half way decent at. I was never able to develop muscles. I was never  aggressive however I did get mad and I did get depressed. It was that anger and depression that led to a breakdown and the subsequent discovery that I am transgender through no fault of my own. That was two and a half years ago. Through the years beginning in 84 I went to therapy but little was known about being transgender I went six different times but could not admit so I told them I was stressed instead.  In fact transgender was not a word until the end of the eighties and not in common use until the 90's. Luckily with the advent of the computer age, information is easier to access. In fact I have attached a report from Dr Ann Vitale called the Gender Variant. http://www.avitale.com/developmentalreview.htm pay particular attention to the G3 description. I don't know how old you all are but there is a possible explanation that we were poisoned in utero with massive doses of female hormones thus the boy parts but our brains were formed on these hormones. Research is hard to come by because of prejudice and it would disprove the common concept that we just one day decided. I promise you, your husband has probably been dealing with it for a very long time. I am lucky my wife fell in love with me and not my boy parts. So when I came out to the family I was told. "You will always be our Dad but you have to do what you feel is right" Joann was confused but has reminded me often how much she loves me.
Since coming out. It took three visits to my Gender Therapist to determine that I have transgender tendencies and I was allowed to start HRT.  I have now been on HRT for two years 3 months. Almost immediately my lifetime depression subsided. I have not had to fill out a depression survey in two years. My anger has subsided. I actually look forward to tomorrow. Yes I have boobs and my face has softened. My fat has redistributed and I look a little femme. But  considering where I was I am worlds away in confidence, caring, desire to contribute to others who have suffered as I have. Yes I dress up but I can't get the nerve to go full time. I attend two support groups every week. We go out to dinner afterwords and generally have a good time. Myself,  I have never had an affinity for men. I can't say I never dreamed of being with a man. If I had transitioned in my teens, who knows. But my wife and family love me for me and that is so satisfying. I hope you can see that you remember why you got married in the first place. Did you love the person or did you do it for sex. If it is for sex, try tantrics. Not the positions but the touching and closeness and self awareness. In many ways it is more satisfying than finishing up in ten minutes. Many support groups welcome significant others as well. You may want to visit a therapist yourself to help you cope. I hope you give it a chance. It is hard enough to live knowing something is not right.

Thanks, for the encouragement, Moonflower.  Much appreciated.  You ask why I am crying.  Probably because a nuclear bomb was dropped in the middle of my life.  One day, I was just cruising toward retirement and living the life I've been waiting for.  Then the bomb.  My husband is gone and someone else is here in his place.  If I hang in there, I have to totally reconfigure in my mind who he is and what he is and what we are.  And if I don't hang in there, well, we had a very comfortable retirement ahead of us.  Divided by two -- not so much.  I'm at a point in my life where I don't want to waste what time I have left waiting for someone to decide who they are.  That's why I'm crying.

Sylvia, you said you cry, too.  What do you cry about?

Same as you, Lantana. Moonflower asks why we are grieving? Well, we are grieving about losing the life we thought we had, the person we thought we loved, the future we are not going to have. Is not something to grieve about? Of COURSE we are losing something, we are losing the MEN we loved, still love. We are crying because our entire relationship and life together has been based on a lie. The person we thought we loved really isn't that person, and never was. Is that enough for starters?

Another SO here. There are a lot of us, but I think most of us feel a bit shy being very much the minority on this website as well as being on a website where most of the discussion is about something that is causing many of us some sort of pain or at least obstacle. Anyhow, a sincere welcome to all the new SOs. Feel free to PM if you want to chat.

Sylvia - I think you and I will keep Kleenex in business for the foreseeable future.  Sending virtual hugs.

I am mtf transgender, and have spent the past year, after coming out to my wife, working desperately to find a way for us to get through this together. It has been one of the hardest years of our lives.

I had told my wife about 4 years ago that I was transgender. She was fairly supportive and catered to the needs I had to express my femininity. However, after several months I realized that she was really struggling, and had been ignoring her own needs to help fulfill mine. When I first told her, I did a poor job of fully explaining myself, and she was under the impression that this was more of a kink or fetish. I felt terrible for having dropped a burden like that on her, so I purged all of my feminine clothes and closeted back up. I told her that she was right and that it was just a phase.

We had a toddler and a new baby at that time. I spiraled into a very heavy depression and became increasingly suicidal. This brought even more anxiety and stress to my wife. I was failing her as a spouse and was not able to give my children the care they needed. After a particularly dark episode resulting in my wife breaking our bedroom door down enough to send my toddler in to stop me from going to a place of no return, she convinced me to see a psychiatrist.

I'll omit the details of the 3 years that followed, as I want to try to keep this tailored to the subject presented by @loopyem. In short, after being on meds for several years, I started talking to a therapist regarding the transgender feelings that wouldn't leave. My wife was aware that I was seeking help regarding it.

After finally coming to the realization that this is who I am, I once again told my wife I was transgender. This time her reaction was completely different. She was devastated. We had a couple months were I honestly didn't think we could stay together. It shocked me a bit, as she has always been very accepting toward the LGBT community.

I had a very hard conversation where I told her, that in order for me to keep going and feel true to myself, that transitioning was the direction I was needing to head. I told her that I didn't want to separate, but if she felt she needed to leave in order to stay true to herself, I would understand. She later told me she felt like I was trying to subtlety tell her I wanted to leave, but that was not the case at all!

After a solid month and a half we were able to talk about everything again. She told me she felt like I was putting her in a lose/lose situation. She didn't want to be a divorced mother of 3, she didn't want her husband to commit suicide  but she also was not a lesbian and married me with the understanding she was marrying a man. She felt like I had betrayed her, lied to her and tricked her. She felt like she would be judged by others because of this. (Everyone I have told is actually the opposite. They are very empathetic to my wife's situation and in no way think any less of her). She became riddled with anxiety. She was also very furious with my parents, as I grew up in an ultra conservative home, where I was told it was wrong and sinful to feel this way. The fact that my parents never sought therapy for me also upset her.

I was so confused! I told her that I had never intentionally lied to her. I explained that I felt like I had been lying to myself since the age of 5, trying to believe that I didn't truly feel this way. If it wasn't for her help and encouragement for me to talk to a therapist, I would not have done it by myself. I was also taught as a child that therapy was a fraud and everything was something that could be prayed away or overcome in my mind.
My wife said she understood that I was lying to myself, and had been hobbled in my youth on how to seek proper help sooner. That did not change the fact that she felt trapped in a lose/lose place.

After much encouragement she went to a therapist for herself, and that seemed to really help her. She was able to talk to someone completely unbiased and who was there strictly for her and her feelings. I am so happy she went. I would strongly recommend it if you all can. I feel very strongly that SO care during this time is just as important as care for the trans individual.

I did as much research as I could about the way SO of Transgender people felt and processed things. I can confirm that everything you all are saying is how a HUGE majority of spouses feel. In fact my wife came across this forum not knowing that I had been reading it myself for years!
I read an article (I don't remember where) that having a spouse transition can feel like your spouse has died. It can present a feeling of a devastating loss. I asked my wife if this is how she felt and she confirmed that it was. After hearing that, I was so sad. With that knowledge though I was able to have a better understanding of the difficulties she had when we would talk about our future.

It has been a year since re-coming out to my wife and I am just now about to begin HRT. It is still hard for her, she still cries sometimes during our conversations together. I continue to allow her the space she needs, but we both agreed to continue working through this together and stay open with our communication.

To her it has only been a year that this has been a struggle for me, as opposed to the 25 years it has actually been that I have had a struggle with my identity. This can bring her feelings of me rushing into things. It requires repeated conversations. We both have to understand where the other is coming from in order to keep our marriage together. We have agreed to see how things go, but both understand that it isn't fair for either of us to live contrary to ourselves.

I truly hope you all are able to find the support you need, to understand that your reactions and feelings are completely normal and to continue to stay strong!

Lacy

Lacy, thank you for helping me to understand what Lantana and Sylvia are going through.

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
I am mtf transgender, and have spent the past year, after coming out to my wife, working desperately to find a way for us to get through this together. It has been one of the hardest years of our lives.

Clearly!

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
I had told my wife about 4 years ago that I was transgender. She was fairly supportive and catered to the needs I had to express my femininity. However, after several months I realized that she was really struggling, and had been ignoring her own needs to help fulfill mine.

I find it so easy to ignore my own needs, and help my spouse fulfill hers. It's so much FUN! to help her take each new step toward her goal.

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
When I first told her, I did a poor job of fully explaining myself, and she was under the impression that this was more of a kink or fetish. I felt terrible for having dropped a burden like that on her, so I purged all of my feminine clothes and closeted back up. I told her that she was right and that it was just a phase.

We had a toddler and a new baby at that time. I spiraled into a very heavy depression and became increasingly suicidal. This brought even more anxiety and stress to my wife. I was failing her as a spouse and was not able to give my children the care they needed. After a particularly dark episode resulting in my wife breaking our bedroom door down enough to send my toddler in to stop me from going to a place of no return, she convinced me to see a psychiatrist.

I'm so glad that's behind you!

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
I'll omit the details of the 3 years that followed, as I want to try to keep this tailored to the subject presented by @loopyem. In short, after being on meds for several years, I started talking to a therapist regarding the transgender feelings that wouldn't leave. My wife was aware that I was seeking help regarding it.

After finally coming to the realization that this is who I am, I once again told my wife I was transgender. This time her reaction was completely different. She was devastated. We had a couple months were I honestly didn't think we could stay together. It shocked me a bit, as she has always been very accepting toward the LGBT community.

I had a very hard conversation where I told her, that in order for me to keep going and feel true to myself, that transitioning was the direction I was needing to head. I told her that I didn't want to separate, but if she felt she needed to leave in order to stay true to herself, I would understand. She later told me she felt like I was trying to subtlety tell her I wanted to leave, but that was not the case at all!

Isn't it funny and tragic how we can misinterpret the people with whom we are the closest. What a relief for you that you had the love and respect to hear your wife -- I mean, really hear her.

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
After a solid month and a half we were able to talk about everything again. She told me she felt like I was putting her in a lose/lose situation. She didn't want to be a divorced mother of 3, she didn't want her husband to commit suicide  but she also was not a lesbian and married me with the understanding she was marrying a man. She felt like I had betrayed her, lied to her and tricked her. She felt like she would be judged by others because of this. (Everyone I have told is actually the opposite. They are very empathetic to my wife's situation and in no way think any less of her). She became riddled with anxiety. She was also very furious with my parents, as I grew up in an ultra conservative home, where I was told it was wrong and sinful to feel this way. The fact that my parents never sought therapy for me also upset her.

Wow! I commend you for your strength and clarity as you dealt with such a response. I appreciate her anger that you hadn't resolved your transness before she met you. I appreciate her struggling, working to sort out what her options were. I hope that she understands that you didn't intend to betray, lie or trick; that you were as honest about your identity as you could be.

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
I was so confused! I told her that I had never intentionally lied to her. I explained that I felt like I had been lying to myself since the age of 5, trying to believe that I didn't truly feel this way. If it wasn't for her help and encouragement for me to talk to a therapist, I would not have done it by myself. I was also taught as a child that therapy was a fraud and everything was something that could be prayed away or overcome in my mind.
My wife said she understood that I was lying to myself, and had been hobbled in my youth on how to seek proper help sooner. That did not change the fact that she felt trapped in a lose/lose place.

How ironic that if your wife, who didn't want you to become a stranger in one way or another, hadn't helped and encouraged you to talk to a therapist, you and she might not be where you are today: miles ahead of where you were in understanding who each other are, and learning how to face a huge, scary challenge together.

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
After much encouragement she went to a therapist for herself, and that seemed to really help her. She was able to talk to someone completely unbiased and who was there strictly for her and her feelings. I am so happy she went. I would strongly recommend it if you all can. I feel very strongly that SO care during this time is just as important as care for the trans individual.

Hooray hooray hooray! I'm so glad that she went to a therapist, too. I love your statement, "SO care during this time is just as important as care for the trans individual."

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM

I did as much research as I could about the way SO of Transgender people felt and processed things. I can confirm that everything you all are saying is how a HUGE majority of spouses feel.

You are so good at seeing from different perspectives.

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
In fact my wife came across this forum not knowing that I had been reading it myself for years!
I read an article (I don't remember where) that having a spouse transition can feel like your spouse has died. It can present a feeling of a devastating loss. I asked my wife if this is how she felt and she confirmed that it was. After hearing that, I was so sad. With that knowledge though I was able to have a better understanding of the difficulties she had when we would talk about our future.

Isn't it amazing that we can have deep, intimate talks, and still overlook what is important to know? As my spouse and I read posts and comments here, we're amazed how many times someone mentions something that we never discussed in the 15 years that we have been working together to figure this transgender thing out.

I don't yet understand why some wives grieve. I don't understand their feeling of loss. The trans person is still the same person, but more so. I can understand anger at the society that has obstructed the honest self-expression. I can understand the fear that key people will not approve, but I understand that such extreme responses are unusual, and thus make intriguing stories.

But loss, I don't understand. I didn't lose anyone. We gained deeper closeness as she gradually became more able to express her honest self.

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
It has been a year since re-coming out to my wife and I am just now about to begin HRT. It is still hard for her, she still cries sometimes during our conversations together. I continue to allow her the space she needs, but we both agreed to continue working through this together and stay open with our communication.

Congratulations on starting HRT! Congratulations for all the hard work that you put into exposing and resolving the fears and confusion, and look at the great place that you are! Beginning HRT, and your wife staying on board -- amazing.

Quote from: RealLacy on October 17, 2018, 03:49:45 PM
To her it has only been a year that this has been a struggle for me, as opposed to the 25 years it has actually been that I have had a struggle with my identity. This can bring her feelings of me rushing into things. It requires repeated conversations. We both have to understand where the other is coming from in order to keep our marriage together. We have agreed to see how things go, but both understand that it isn't fair for either of us to live contrary to ourselves.

I truly hope you all are able to find the support you need, to understand that your reactions and feelings are completely normal and to continue to stay strong!

Lacy

I love how well you understand and represent your wife's perspective. Understanding where each other is coming from is essential for my spouse and me, as well.

May you and your wife stay strong! So many encouraging stories here at susans.org !

So many great responses here. I clearly see my wife and me in here. I came out to her as MtF a couple of years ago. Like several of you, she tends to grieve and see it as a potential loss. She still kind of hopes it will go away, even though she and I both know and acknowledge that this sort of thing doesn't go away. We are both starting into retirement, and as said above, funds are there for a joint retirement, but not really for two separate ones.

She's uncomfortable with my presenting fully femme, but we've worked out some limitations, such as certain femme blouses, women's jeans, underwear of my choice. She really wants me to discuss it in advance if I'm going to present femme, giving her the choice of whether to watch me change, or to go away. She came to my trans support group this past week which helped her to see a few different trans people in a better light.

We just came off a three-month trial separation and are back together. I think for the long term, but nothing is certain. We both realized how much we missed living together, and that helped us to push forward on the needed compromises.

We're lucky, in a way, that my dysphoria seems to be low-grade, and I'm really more gender-fluid. Full transition (surgery) will not happen. I'd sort of like to go on HRT but am not pursuing it for now.

@Moonflower you have such a great attitude, but you are in the apparent minority among SO's. I'd love to understand more how you can be so positive about it.

'We're lucky, in a way, that my dysphoria seems to be low-grade, and I'm really more gender-fluid. Full transition (surgery) will not happen. I'd sort of like to go on HRT but am not pursuing it for now.'

I think we are similar. The gender fluid label comes up in all therapy/discussions etc. He is on low level HRT though, just E patches, no T-blockers. Clinic suggested increasing, he said no. 

'@Moonflower you have such a great attitude, but you are in the apparent minority among SO's. I'd love to understand more how you can be so positive about it.'

Me too.

Syl

Thanks @Sylvia. It is always good to find others similar to ourselves/spouses. I hadn't thought of E patches without T blockers.

One other thing, I think it's really helpful if the SO can feel free to seek support with whomever they wish -- such as friends and family. Early on I realized it was difficult for my wife to hold all this inside (other than in therapy) so I "freed" her to discuss it with anybody she likes. In a way it made it easier for me too, as I didn't have to have some of those difficult "coming out" discussions with friends and family -- they already knew. Of course this means that I trust my wife and what she is saying to them -- she is not putting out inaccuracies and negativity, just discussing and seeking support. I hear from her sometimes about what somebody said, "I can't believe you stayed with him," but then when I see that person we can have what seems like a normal interaction. Somehow this all seems to draw my wife and I closer together, not "us vs them" but more like we're on the same team.

Quote from: Moonflower on October 18, 2018, 08:03:49 PM
I don't yet understand why some wives grieve. I don't understand their feeling of loss. The trans person is still the same person, but more so.

I will try to help you understand, but first you must remember that everyone's experience is unique, so you have to start by not stating assumptions like "the trans person is still the same person". It would have been more accurate to say you don't understand because YOUR trans person still feels like the same person.

A lot of women I have gotten to know have spouses who hid their true identity for many, many years and projected in many ways something that was untrue... someone who was not real. The wives in these cases had no idea and thought that these projections were genuine and unwittingly fell in love with these projections. That's not to say that everything they fell in love with was fake and that everything their spouses projected was fake, but even that any of it was fake is a hard pill to swallow after decades together. So every minor detail that the wives knew and cherished, that is now going away, is what they grieve. Some of it is presentation, some of it is personality, some of it is purely conceptual.

What I need help with is understanding why so many people say that a transperson is the same before coming out and after transitioning? Doesn't the word transition mean to change? If they were the same, why all the trouble to transition at all? I always thought it sounded demeaning to transpeople to say they are the same before and after, but maybe it comes down to each person's definition of "same" or maybe even their definition of "being" or "are"? A transperson might say they feel the same because how the experience who they are is different from how others experience who they are.

And Moonflower, I am not trying to be a troublemaker, but I think this difference in how people may view the same situation is why some spouses do not hang out here for long.

Well said, GR.

Syl

Dear LoopyEm and the other Significant Others,

  I'm a "non-transitional" cd, happy to co-inhabit a male body.  And I'm in a long term DADT marriage.  So my situation is very different (although I wish I could find some way to communicate my needs to my wife, sigh). 

  But this thread has caused me some thought.  And my thought led to some questions I hadn't really thought about before.

  So question 1 for our dear Significant Others:  Is the desire of a spouse to transition in some way different than a serious life change brought about by say an accident where he was hit by a drunk driver?  Or developing some long term illness like muscular dystrophy or early onset dementia?   I mean in each case, "the future was not one that I expected".

  Question 2:  If there is a difference, why?  Is it a matter of "fault" -- that an accident or an illness is not the "fault" of the spouse while his need to transition is?

  Question 3:  How do husbands of FTM transitioners react?  I don't think I've noticed any comments on Susan's from husbands in FTM transition relationships but I wouldn't have necessarily done so.  Has anyone else?

   Thanks,  Carolina

Quote from: Carolina on October 19, 2018, 05:08:24 PM

  So question 1 for our dear Significant Others:  Is the desire of a spouse to transition in some way different than a serious life change brought about by say an accident where he was hit by a drunk driver?  Or developing some long term illness like muscular dystrophy or early onset dementia?   I mean in each case, "the future was not one that I expected".

  Question 2:  If there is a difference, why?  Is it a matter of "fault" -- that an accident or an illness is not the "fault" of the spouse while his need to transition is?

  Question 3:  How do husbands of FTM transitioners react?  I don't think I've noticed any comments on Susan's from husbands in FTM transition relationships but I wouldn't have necessarily done so.  Has anyone else?

   Thanks,  Carolina

Hi Carolina, those two questions have been asked and I have thought about them. Of course in those situations it would be the not the future we expected. But it would be both of us grieving, together. It would be a terrible situation for both of us, probably worse for the sick or injured partner, rather than being something one partner finds great joy or peace from, with the other partner the complete opposite. And it would be something I understand, something most people understand. ->-bleeped-<- to a cis person is impossible to REALLY understand, although we try as much as we can.

Question 2 - at times, yes I DO think it's his fault 'why is he doing this to me?', and yes I know that is unreasonable. He DOES have a choice. There are many many secret or stealth crossdressers or transwomen in the world who NEVER do anything about it. He's never been suicidal or clinically depressed. He had a normal, happy, male childhood and adolescence. He has told me many times this is not something he HAS to do. He just WANTS to, because he wants to find answers. If I had refused to discuss hormones, or threatened to leave (never an option) he would have just dropped the whole thing. But he wouldn't have been happy, so I could never make those sorts of ultimatums. But he would have survived, as he has done for 63 years.

Question 3 - I've come across a handful of husbands of ftms, and the ones I have seen are NOT supportive, and are generally very angry, think their wives are either having a mental breakdown or have been 'sucked in' by the TG community. There seem to more ftms in lesbian relationships actually, than in male-female partnerships. Again, the lesbian partners have generally found the transition incredibly difficult, completely compromising their (often proud and hard-fought-for) lesbian identity.

By the way, what is a DADT marriage?

Syl

Quote from: Sylvia on October 20, 2018, 05:05:40 AM
By the way, what is a DADT marriage?

I didn't know either so I googled it. Don't Ask, Don't Tell. I should have seen it coming.

Quote from: Carolina on October 19, 2018, 05:08:24 PM
So question 1 for our dear Significant Others:  Is the desire of a spouse to transition in some way different than a serious life change brought about by say an accident where he was hit by a drunk driver?  Or developing some long term illness like muscular dystrophy or early onset dementia?   I mean in each case, "the future was not one that I expected".

  Question 2:  If there is a difference, why?  Is it a matter of "fault" -- that an accident or an illness is not the "fault" of the spouse while his need to transition is?

  Question 3:  How do husbands of FTM transitioners react?  I don't think I've noticed any comments on Susan's from husbands in FTM transition relationships but I wouldn't have necessarily done so.  Has anyone else?

I have been asked and thought about this before as well, and my answers are similar to Sylvia's.

I hate to compare being transgender to an illness or accident, and I do not have the experience of having a spouse that was in an accident or contracting an illness, but I think, YES, a spouse would definitely grieve the loss of the life expected and the unwelcome changes.

And Sylvia is right that the biggest difference is grieving together vs. grieving alone. I have known a wife whose husband developed Alzheimer's rather young and quickly became unaware of his own condition and did not even recognize his wife who stayed they, taking care of him. He actually was cruel to her. It was very hard on her because she no longer shared the journey with him.

It is doubly hard too is that many SOs are bound by secrecy to not out their spouse, so they have NO support in their grief, NO one to share it with.

There is also a pain of realizing that the whole time you knew your spouse, something was hidden. That the person you saw and thought you knew was not quite accurate. It is hard to accurately describe this feeling, but the accident/illness analogy does not work here.

I see no fault in being transgender, having gender dysphoria, and all the needs that come with it, so I see no difference there, but I do think how each person reacts to having an accident, getting ill, being transgender... it can't be ignored. If someone you loved became paraplegic, you would grant them space to be process all the feelings that may arise, but if they began lashing out at you and making your life miserable and it continued too long, you'd eventually have to stand up for yourself, right? It's complicated. But I don't think pure grief is tied to fault and blame. I think SOs that blame their spouse are more likely to have anger than grief.

I have not met a lot of male SOs. Maybe they are less likely the type to seek support in venues like this.

Quote from: gallinarosa on October 20, 2018, 12:24:31 PM
...
It is doubly hard too is that many SOs are bound by secrecy to not out their spouse, so they have NO support in their grief, NO one to share it with.

To reiterate what I said above, because I think this is really important. Holding your SO to secrecy is unfair and unsupportive. If the SO is going through all this, they need help and be able to talk freely to their friends and family. It's taken a lot of pressure off me to know that my wife can discuss this with her friends and her sisters. And even with my own sister.

Quote from: gallinarosa on October 20, 2018, 12:24:31 PM
I have been asked and thought about this before as well, and my answers are similar to Sylvia's.

I hate to compare being transgender to an illness or accident, and I do not have the experience of having a spouse that was in an accident or contracting an illness, but I think, YES, a spouse would definitely grieve the loss of the life expected and the unwelcome changes.

And Sylvia is right that the biggest difference is grieving together vs. grieving alone. I have known a wife whose husband developed Alzheimer's rather young and quickly became unaware of his own condition and did not even recognize his wife who stayed they, taking care of him. He actually was cruel to her. It was very hard on her because she no longer shared the journey with him.

It is doubly hard too is that many SOs are bound by secrecy to not out their spouse, so they have NO support in their grief, NO one to share it with.

There is also a pain of realizing that the whole time you knew your spouse, something was hidden. That the person you saw and thought you knew was not quite accurate. It is hard to accurately describe this feeling, but the accident/illness analogy does not work here.

I see no fault in being transgender, having gender dysphoria, and all the needs that come with it, so I see no difference there, but I do think how each person reacts to having an accident, getting ill, being transgender... it can't be ignored. If someone you loved became paraplegic, you would grant them space to be process all the feelings that may arise, but if they began lashing out at you and making your life miserable and it continued too long, you'd eventually have to stand up for yourself, right? It's complicated. But I don't think pure grief is tied to fault and blame. I think SOs that blame their spouse are more likely to have anger than grief.

I have not met a lot of male SOs. Maybe they are less likely the type to seek support in venues like this.

Thank you for that in depth and honest answer to some really hard questions.

I think it is cruel to expect your spouse to remain quiet and not look after her/his needs. I certainly encouraged my spouse to do what she needed to get the support she needed and helped this happen where I could.

Thank you

Liz

Quote from: gallinarosa on October 20, 2018, 12:24:31 PM
It is doubly hard too is that many SOs are bound by secrecy to not out their spouse, so they have NO support in their grief, NO one to share it with.

I haven't told a soul, other than the therapist, who we can't afford any more. I have no one I feel I could talk to about this. Also, he really doesn't want anyone to know, not even our children. If he'd had a life-changing accident or illness, I'd have people around me who'd understand.

Quote from: Sylvia on October 21, 2018, 01:39:16 AM
I haven't told a soul, other than the therapist, who we can't afford any more. I have no one I feel I could talk to about this. Also, he really doesn't want anyone to know, not even our children. If he'd had a life-changing accident or illness, I'd have people around me who'd understand.

My heart goes out to you, Sylvia. Ten years of coping and my wife still finds herself in the same situation with my Dissociative Identity Disorder.

We are both small town apple pie American conservatives. Telling family or friends about my mental illness, or the sexual and psychological abuse I experienced as a child, is more than either of us can bear. Sharing outside of therapy that her retired engineer husband turns into an 8 year old boy at the playground and like a werewolf becomes a woman two days a week is... out of the question.

My wife and I both cared for our aged parents for years. I am far enough along in my recovery to be able to admit that like a transgender person's Gender Dysphoria, I have a horrible psychological disorder, not a life-changing accident or illness. As you mentioned above, I make a CHOICE...Day after day after day. And I choose my own needs over the commitment I made to my wife and my marriage.

Quote from: Lantana on October 17, 2018, 08:20:38 AM
One day, I was just cruising toward retirement and living the life I've been waiting for.  Then the bomb.  My husband is gone and someone else is here in his place.

I was two years away from the early retirement when I had my breakdown, Lantana. A lifetime of hope and dreams slipped through my wife's and my fingers. Nearly ten years later I am able to look enough beyond myself to see a shadow of my wife's suffering. A poem I wrote shortly after my first breakdown:

"For My Wife"
(June 2010)

A candlelight dinner holds no romance
Sitting across the table from the effigy of the man she once loved.
Harder still to repress her urge to vomit when she sees me wearing makeup & women's clothes.

Even in the blindness of the night
There is no escaping what I am.
Her fingers cringe at the touch of the hairless boney frame of another woman laying beside her.

And there is no way to keep from wondering
How long it will be before her husband becomes her roommate,
Her heterosexual mind desperately grappling with the uncertainty of whether she has been having a lesbian relationship for the last 20 years.

I wonder whether she is reveling in her own ecstasy
Or repulsed at the thought of touching me.
Our passion is only a memory now.

Somehow she clings to the piece of me she needs to keep our marriage alive.
Blindly going through the motions,
So we can make it one day at a time.
I love her more than I love my life itself
Could I expect more from anyone?

Quote from: Moonflower on October 18, 2018, 08:03:49 PM
I don't yet understand why some wives grieve. I don't understand their feeling of loss. The trans person is still the same person, but more so. I can understand anger at the society that has obstructed the honest self-expression...

But loss, I don't understand. I didn't lose anyone. We gained deeper closeness as she gradually became more able to express her honest self.

Yes, I didn't lose anything...My Wife Did. And she is getting more...Of Something She DOESN'T Want. The part of me she knew as her husband now shares the microphone with 4 other people. When a  trans person or anyone becomes "more so" anything, they are less so of what they used to be.

Quote from: gallinarosa on October 19, 2018, 04:19:25 PM
I need help with is understanding why so many people say that a transperson is the same before coming out and after transitioning? Doesn't the word transition mean to change? If they were the same, why all the trouble to transition at all?

One of the most powerful coping mechanisms the human mind has to to survive life changing events is the self delusion of the continuity of Self, that despite the things that happen to us, we are still the same person. A poem I wrote shortly after my first breakdown:

"Just Me"
(December 2010)

Mom is 80.
She insisted Christmas day there isn't anything wrong with her.
Incontinent and confined to a wheelchair, she asked me why she is in a nursing home.
She says she is still just me.

Cancer took my friend's leg,
His business, his home and finally his life.
He never understood how any of this could happen to him.
He was still just me.

My cousin uses recreational drugs.
And he is only a social drinker.
He swears it's not his fault, but it cost him his job and his marriage.
After all, he is still just me.


For the first time in 35 years my female self is living life.
The world is brand new.
Hormones and laser and makeup; people accept me as a woman.
But despite all the change, I am still just me.

Struggling to reinterpret 25 years of memories,
To find something, anything that remains of the person she married long ago.
A depth of love I will never comprehend, How does my wife cope?
She is still just me.

Time moves on,
A series of imperceptible steps.
And if we dare to look over our shoulders we would see we are miles from where we started.
Still just me.

Quote from: Sylvia on October 02, 2018, 07:34:40 AM
Compromise - it may be impossible, depending on how bad his dysphoria is, but can he only go as far as you can cope with?

A poem I when I was initially misdiagnosed as transsexual with a perspective of why we must do what we do as badly as we need the air we breathe:

"Transsexualism"
Oct 2009

She consumes our days and haunts our nights.
She makes us delirious with our femininity,
Leading us by our noses and taking us wherever she chooses.
She cuts proud men at their knees like a tall cedar,
Leaving them as groveling meek women.
NEVER underestimate.
NEVER forget the power of her pink fog.
Be ever weary or she will steal your life, everything you have and love.
And leave you thanking her for it.

What if my SO tells me that she changed her mind, and she's going to return to being a man? I'm having such a good time being the spouse of a trans woman, I'd be disappointed. While she has been on her journey, I've been on my own, examining my place on the gender and sexual orientation spectrums. We are more compatible than we ever realized!

I see such freedom and joy in my SO's being, when she presents as a woman, in contrast to her former reclusiveness, so if she changes her mind, I would miss her terribly! I'm sure that she and I and We are happier and healthier when she is a woman. Maybe that is similar to what some SOs here experience, but the other way around?

Quote from: RandyL on October 19, 2018, 11:27:16 AM
@Moonflower you have such a great attitude, but you are in the apparent minority among SO's. I'd love to understand more how you can be so positive about it.

@RandyL I wish that I could explain to you and SOs how I can be so positive about transitioning. I love that I have it in me to be excited about a person finding the strength to speak out about who they really are, especially after decades of their trying to stifle telltale signs. For example, as a feminist, true to Ms. Magazine, I raised my kids to be expressive people, not confined in boy and girl roles; I was appalled when I overheard my oldest telling my middle that her favorite color was pink, his was blue, and the trucks were his toys, not hers, when I knew that this wasn't true. Years later, she told me that she learned to say that from kids her age. I think that my valuing self-expression regardless of conventional roles helped me embrace my trans partner.

Am I in the minority among SOs? As my SO slowly tells one person at a time that she is transgender, we are getting marvelously positive responses. It seems that today's young adults are at ease with people exploring gender identity. Younger and older health care professionals are surprisingly familiar with gender dysphoria, and share our enthusiasm when they hear that someone is coming out. I am finding that I am not unique in my support.

Quote from: Virginia on October 21, 2018, 10:25:25 AM
I choose my own needs over the commitment I made to my wife and my marriage.

When a  trans person or anyone becomes "more so" anything, they are less so of what they used to be.

@RandyL maybe @Virginia explains how I can be so positive. I never see my spouse putting her own needs over her commitment to me, and I'm excited about who my spouse is becoming, and how that is changing Us.

Quote from: gallinarosa on October 19, 2018, 04:19:25 PM
So every minor detail that the wives knew and cherished, that is now going away, is what they grieve.

Quote from: gallinarosa on October 20, 2018, 12:24:31 PM
There is also a pain of realizing that the whole time you knew your spouse, something was hidden. That the person you saw and thought you knew was not quite accurate.

@gallinarosa I hear you saying that your SO is no longer the same person who you fell in love with, that he's transitioning to become someone unfamiliar and less appealing. You remind me of my first year or so after my SO came out to me (and me alone until this year). I felt on edge, wondering if more secrets were lurking. It was a trust issue for both of us. Fortunately, we explored together what the various trans-related terms meant, and which ones applied to each of us, and how other people in similar situations could inspire each of us, and we both learned a lot about ourselves -- together.

I believe that we all express ourselves as honestly as we can, considering our beliefs about what is safe.

I believe that we each have a choice of what to focus on, for example: whether a person has changed or remained the same. You make a good point: both are true.

Quote from: Carolina on October 19, 2018, 05:08:24 PM
  So question 1 for our dear Significant Others:  Is the desire of a spouse to transition in some way different than a serious life change brought about by say an accident where he was hit by a drunk driver?  Or developing some long term illness like muscular dystrophy or early onset dementia?   I mean in each case, "the future was not one that I expected".

  Question 2:  If there is a difference, why?  Is it a matter of "fault" -- that an accident or an illness is not the "fault" of the spouse while his need to transition is?

  Question 3:  How do husbands of FTM transitioners react?  I don't think I've noticed any comments on Susan's from husbands in FTM transition relationships but I wouldn't have necessarily done so.  Has anyone else?

   Thanks,  Carolina

These questions and the following responses made my head spin. Great thoughts!

Quote from: Sylvia on October 20, 2018, 05:05:40 AM
it would be both of us grieving, together. It would be a terrible situation for both of us, probably worse for the sick or injured partner, rather than being something one partner finds great joy or peace from, with the other partner the complete opposite. And it would be something I understand, something most people understand. ->-bleeped-<- to a cis person is impossible to REALLY understand, although we try as much as we can...

...If I had refused to discuss hormones, or threatened to leave (never an option) he would have just dropped the whole thing. But he wouldn't have been happy, so I could never make those sorts of ultimatums.

Quote from: Sylvia on October 21, 2018, 01:39:16 AM
I have no one I feel I could talk to about this.

@Sylvia thank you for sharing your perspective here. I hear you and @gallinarosa saying that you are feeling very alone as you grieve and feel injured. I hear you saying that you feel pressured into being as open minded as possible about his transition because you value his happiness. How painful, and how hopeful.

What if the situation was a mental illness (like @Virginia's Dissociative Identity Disorder) that carried stigma similar to that of gender dysphoria, instead of an accident or illness that many people sympathize with, and speak freely about with anger?

Quote from: gallinarosa on October 20, 2018, 12:24:31 PM
I have known a wife whose husband developed Alzheimer's rather young and quickly became unaware of his own condition and did not even recognize his wife who stayed the[re], taking care of him. He actually was cruel to her. It was very hard on her because she no longer shared the journey with him.

What a good comparison! I recognize the similarity of social isolation for SOs of people who have dementia, like that of SOs of people who have gender dysphoria. The dementia spouse often becomes trapped at home alone because of the overwhelming and embarrassing behavior from the person who is no longer acting in familiar, attractive ways. Both spouses are dealing with unfamiliarity, and feel isolated because of the secrets that s/he must keep. Leaving a spouse after a diagnosis of severe dementia must be much harder than leaving a spouse because of gender dysphoria.

Quote from: gallinarosa on October 20, 2018, 12:24:31 PM
if they began lashing out at you and making your life miserable and it continued too long, you'd eventually have to stand up for yourself, right?

You have my complete and full support! NO ONE can lash out at you. NO ONE can make your life miserable. You certainly MUST stand up for yourself if this happens. Again, you have my complete and full support! This is NOT a trans issue!

Quote from: gallinarosa on October 19, 2018, 04:19:25 PM
What I need help with is understanding why so many people say that a transperson is the same before coming out and after transitioning? Doesn't the word transition mean to change? If they were the same, why all the trouble to transition at all? I always thought it sounded demeaning to transpeople to say they are the same before and after, but maybe it comes down to each person's definition of "same" or maybe even their definition of "being" or "are"? A transperson might say they feel the same because how they experience who they are is different from how others experience who they are.

For a long time after I came out to my wife I told her that I would still be the same person, but I would just present as a different gender. The further down the road I went, the more I started doubting this thought. A few weeks ago I finally realized that I am not the person that I used to be, and that is a good thing. Maybe the change is more profound for me because I suppressed who I was for so long.

What is the same? My memories, including some things I would like to forget. My sense of loyalty and honor. My love for my wife and daughters. My love for them and the rest of my family feels much deeper than it was before (maybe that is a difference?).

What is different? My frustration, anger, and rage are gone. My need to win, or be 'first' is gone. I realized that love is beautiful, no matter what genders are involved. I have much more empathy. I am no longer a loner. I enjoy starting conversations with strangers. I am not afraid to move with the music in public. I am patient, and more thoughtful. My name does not have to come first. I am not frightened of the future. I have more confidence in myself than I have ever had in my life. I am happy.

I am sure there are more differences, but I have had a long day!

No, I am not the same person, I am a better person. Love always -- Jessica Rose

Quote from: Jessica_Rose on November 05, 2018, 09:37:00 PM
For a long time after I came out to my wife I told her that I would still be the same person, but I would just present as a different gender. The further down the road I went, the more I started doubting this thought. A few weeks ago I finally realized that I am not the person that I used to be, and that is a good thing. Maybe the change is more profound for me because I suppressed who I was for so long.

What is the same? My memories, including some things I would like to forget. My sense of loyalty and honor. My love for my wife and daughters. My love for them and the rest of my family feels much deeper than it was before (maybe that is a difference?).

What is different? My frustration, anger, and rage are gone. My need to win, or be 'first' is gone. I realized that love is beautiful, no matter what genders are involved. I have much more empathy. I am no longer a loner. I enjoy starting conversations with strangers. I am not afraid to move with the music in public. I am patient, and more thoughtful. My name does not have to come first. I am not frightened of the future. I have more confidence in myself than I have ever had in my life. I am happy.

I am sure there are more differences, but I have had a long day!

No, I am not the same person, I am a better person. Love always -- Jessica Rose

Strangely my partner became the better person BEFORE starting hormones. In the months leading up to it, while we were still discussing, he became like you, Jessica. So much more patient, empathetic, loving and just NICE. This carried on for the first three or four months on hormones. Suddenly, 5 months into HRT he has changed back into the angry, impatient, intolerant and unhappy man he had been in the past. Only this time it's much worse. I don't understand. He doesn't understand - he says it's just like a switch has been flicked. It was supposed to make things better, not a million times worse.

Quote from: Sylvia on November 06, 2018, 02:09:12 AM
Strangely my partner became the better person BEFORE starting hormones. In the months leading up to it, while we were still discussing, he became like you, Jessica. So much more patient, empathetic, loving and just NICE. This carried on for the first three or four months on hormones. Suddenly, 5 months into HRT he has changed back into the angry, impatient, intolerant and unhappy man he had been in the past. Only this time it's much worse. I don't understand. He doesn't understand - he says it's just like a switch has been flicked. It was supposed to make things better, not a million times worse.

I am saddened to hear that. Once I understood where my anger came from it became easier to control, it started fading with Estradiol, and Spironolactone made it nearly vanish. Although I say my anger is gone, there is still one thing that can bring it back out of hiding -- intentional, willful, dead-naming. That is more painful to me than I ever imagined. I am a little on edge at times because I am afraid that something may complicate my plans for GCS in April, but it is nothing more intense than spilled milk. It sounds like something is still missing in your partners life, maybe they are afraid of the future, maybe they feel the need to transition soon and realize they are not ready, maybe they still aren't sure if this is the right path -- and it may not be. We are all searching for something, and sometimes the paths we take are dead ends. If possible, continue being supportive, but I realize that can be nearly impossible to do when your partner is back to the angry person they used to be.

My anger and rage were so intense that I would punch holes in walls, break dishes, yell at my wife for things I did. I truly don't understand why she stayed with me for all of those years. I have asked her why, and she said it's because she loves me. The person I used to be was not worthy of someone who has that much love to give.

I am still trying to convince my wife that her experience could help others on these forums, maybe you will see her soon.

I can only express my personal story.

I came out to my wife after 14 years of marriage.  She was extremely upset.

The truth is I don't understand it either.  I know that some research suggest it is a variation in human development. 

My wife and I went into therapy for many years.  In that time, I learned that my childhood was not as normal as I had thought.  There was physical and emotional abuse and neglect.  Later, I learned that my step father sexually abused my siblings and me.

Research shows that childhood trauma, is also a factor.  In addition to gender dysphoria, I was diagnosed with PTSD and Borderline Personality d/o.

I was always an angry person, prone to violence.  This was not only due to my childhood, but suppressing and denying the feelings of femininity and wanting to be a female.  Having that all bottled up inside, creates pressure, anger and resentment.

I have been married 34 years this month.  Our relationship has evolved a bit.  I am not transitioning and am not fully out, but she supports me.  I take her lead with my transition, if it is to occur at all.  She recognizes the struggle and is working on it.  It's like getting into a hot tub, you need to go slowly in order to feel comfortable.

What is most important to me is my wife and family.  Perhaps because mine was so chaotic and destructive.  Keeping my marriage together and living is far more important to me that appearing to be a woman, but I also need to be free.

This is how she and I do it.  Mutual respect for one another's needs.