It's unfortunate but I am not. Transgender was not even a term until my forties. I am learning as I go along and you are all helping me perfect my opinion. I can't speak for anyone else so I relate my experiences, be they good or bad. I wish the good outnumbered the bad. We all live in our little cocoon. But I want to be born a butterfly as moths are too plain.
My life is not your life and maybe we just can't relate. I'm sorry for that. I try to understand and sometimes I do. I have not lived a life of external pain. All mine has been in my imperfect brain. My love and unfortunately my hate. My confusion, anger, my self loathing. Mostly because I've allowed others to make choices for me. I never expect your experience to match up as mine. Oh, some tidbits may resonate and I feel happy when they do. I have been referred to as the most negative person many have met. It truly is not intention but unfortunately I look at things from all angles and usually my brain settles on the negative. It has supported my career as a problem solver. But it is far different solving problems for machinery and processes than for life experience. I am trying desperately to fit in, as this realization of who i am is coming so late in life.
I have been extremely blessed that one person in my life loves me for myself and not someone who I am not. She has known my struggle for all these years and has not brought it up and let me do the things I felt necessary to make myself feel complete for a few hours at a time. I can't express enough the appreciation for allowing me to be me. But even she has not received the love she deserves because of my confusion. I've said before, I love her but I am not in love with her. My first wife used to tell me that and I never understood. It did not make sense at the time. I wish I could ravish my wife but it is just not in me to do so. Yet here she is at my side as always. Being my strength, counter to my weakness.
I have been blessed in other ways. I was able to establish a career over forty years solving problems for several major aircraft companies. I have gained positions far exceeding my education level. I often attended management meetings being the only one in attendance without an advance degree. I was also one of the most productive at those meetings saving millions of dollars for my company. I was one of the few people and really the only planning person that could make material decisions for part substitutions. I can't think of another person of my stature to possess an approval stamp. A stamp that says I approve of materials that hold the lives of millions of people at stake.
Part of the problem is I always tell the truth as I know it. If something does not add up, I will not sugarcoat my opinion. And, as we all know if we have a-holes we have opinions.
One of the great things about my transition is having access to people like you. You make me smarter, stronger, more confident, more determined to see it through. I have started to trust people again which for me is a great achievement. I am beginning to make friendships again. Another great achievement. It's tough when the majority of your friends were in kindergarten with you over sixty years ago. One of the things that has been hardest to do, is to admit to them that I am transgender. Most surprisingly, have handled it well.
Well, I've taken enough of your time. Just know I value your opinions, insights, recommendations, your friendships, and most of all your experiences. Know too, that I am in your corner cheering you along. I am beginning to understand what special people we are. I wish you all peace and happiness.
Dawn
I started to understand how special we are when my gay brother blew off the whole transgender movement (that's just my experience, not judging the larger LGB community). We do have our own pride flag (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transgender_flags#Transgender_Pride_Flag). So, yes I do feel special and I do have pride and I am making choices that reinforce who I am. I'm moving forward everyday. :icon_chick:
@DawnOday
Hi Dawn,
Thank you for sharing your thoughts, I always enjoy reading them. Its definitely a trying and difficult thing to have grown up in an age where things were unknown and rarely talked about. But I'm glad you've found yourself here at this stage of your life and here at Susans where we can get to know you. Your super lucky to have a wife who has made an effort to know all your facets especially having grown up in an age where it can be more difficult to alter or change your way of thinking so - I'm glad she's there for you.
Also I've been wanting to know more about your part in the space program, if you are allowed to share some, what sort of things you did and what stories you have. Did you ever bump into anyone famous?
Take care, XO
Sonja.
Dearest Dawn,
I have noticed that we often both comment on various threads, and I've always appreciated the sensibilities that you bring to a subject. Maybe part of that is because we are both mature, having grown up in, and lived our business lives in, a very different world. And maybe another part of that is that having gained some small experience from maturity, I appreciate your directness.
Anyway I'm a fairly comfortable cd, not a transitioner, so many of the issues of importance here at Susan's are something that I have not personally struggled with. But I certainly sympathize with the struggle that many have, and some still are, experiencing. How difficult it must be for them.
So Dawn, you are one of the special people who make Susan's my kind of Place. Take care of yourself.
Love, Carolina
"and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it."
Who or what we are is not an anomaly but a part of the life around us. There are fish that change gender and doing so usually makes them the most dominant of their species. We are not the failed portion of humanity but the strength that can look beyond what is expected to what we can be. In an unexcepting world this is a good place to find acceptance and possibly peace, but you have to know, we are not the problem. You are not the problem.
I think I speak for most of us to say that we are glad that you are here. For myself I say that I am glad that you found yourself, a rock that you can build your church, that the gates of Hell cannot prevail against.
Quote from: DawnOday on October 12, 2018, 04:05:05 PM
It's unfortunate but I am not. Transgender was not even a term until my forties. I am learning as I go along and you are all helping me perfect my opinion.
One of the great things about my transition is having access to people like you. You make me smarter, stronger, more confident, more determined to see it through. I have started to trust people again which for me is a great achievement. I am beginning to make friendships again. Another great achievement. It's tough when the majority of your friends were in kindergarten with you over sixty years ago. Dawn
Hello again Dawn
As you probably recall, I have also known I was trans (without knowing the name) since aged 4 and suppressed and buried till I finally took action last year with therapy and HRT. I think it is only recently perhaps since 2000 here in UK that transgender matters have been in the public domain; before that most people heard first of ->-bleeped-<-s and later of transsexuals and incorrectly assumed they were the same. Medical professionals incorrectly assumed gender identity to be aligned to sexual orientation; whereas now they realize gender identity and sexual orientation are two separate subjects. We had to hide for so long but now there is greater understanding and acceptance but still somewhat of a social taboo. We are getting there!
Again I feel most of my friends (of both sexes) happened between my ages of 4-11 and I was unable to make true friends all my life and I never married as I never wished to. I feel I truly relate to so many here on Susans whether they reside in UK or US or elsewhere. I shall be publicly transitioning in 2019 at the age of 64 and now that I have accepted myself, I believe I am and will continue to gain confidence.
The main problem with the opposition? In my view it is either that they make the same mistake that the medical profession made before 2000 - they simply cannot understand the difference between Gender Identity and Sexual Orientation. Ignorance requires more education.
Yes I really appreciate your posts and I feel we have and will have plenty to share both in terms of our history and our intentions/journey.
Sending Love
Pamela xx
Dawn, you keep right on being yourself (like I have to say it). I read your thoughts and comments because they come from you and not a platitude regurgitated from somewhere else. The point of this forum is not to find like-minded, it's to see similarities in our differences. It's the differences that make us who we are. Never apologize for that.
and, as always, I probably said that wrong :P
Faith
Personally, I believe the difference between gender identity and sexual preference is pretty obvious and has been for a pretty long time. I don't think that is where the problem lies. The good news is that l am not bashful about my age and so l can pretty confidently assume that l am probably one of the older people around here, not that that makes me necessarily any wiser.
I became accutely aware of "the problem" when l was about 5. Being/acting like a girl hadn't been a problem until I started school and other people started trying to modify my behavior to match my apparent sex. That "problem" never went away. I knew that., my parents knew that. I started being taken to doctors and "specialists" around age 7. The doctors had no clue. I was a research subject and my parents were not in a position to subsidize that research. By the time l graduated college the gig was up and something needed doing. Unbeknownst to me a certain Dr. Harry Benjamin had actually started to figure things out. Other doctors around the world had also stated to study this phenomenon from a physiological pov and come to the conclusion that despite not understanding what caused it, the could treat the symtoms.
This was the school of thought that l stumbled into in 1972. Happily for me, l was deemed to be an excellent subject for a recently developed experimental treatment protocol which attempted to bring the body in line with the mind rather that trying to "re-educate" the brain to align with the body.
Then end result was "moi", a happy, productive and fully functional woman into my fifth decade of life as a woman.
After a full recovery from my srs, l restarted my life as an attractive young women. A few years after that, I was married having left that rather difficult chapter of my life far behind me and long forgotten. Had it not been for chancing to read a newspaper article about an individual "coming out at work as transgender", (a term l had never come across), in the early 2000's, l would never have re-engaged with what l have come to recognize as little more than a political lobby.
Under the guise of "support", language is strictly policed and any politically incorrect ideas pointing out the drawbacks of life on the trans plantation are summarily and severly punished. This has been my transgendered experience.
I will try to be tactful.
Please do not discount Complete's opinions and point of view because even though you may not agree or probably even understand what she is talking about, I do and it would be really nice if observations like this from trans elders could be talked about without violating the site's terms or causing a disagreement. Arguably, she might have been a little more tactful too in her approach but I understand her sentiment.
I share many of her views but a lot of you that haven't been around a long time probably don't understand how someone could have such less than shiny opinions about the "trans community". It may be because although her and I are both of trans experience, we've not been a part of the trans community, all its prescribed dogma and what almost at times seems like brainwashing so coming into this relatively recently with decades and decades of just living regular lives as everyday women outside of this realm, many things are puzzling and some are even a little disturbing. In some ways, it's as if we're looking in at all this as outsiders. It's a different perspective that may be hard to understand but I think it's worth discussion?
To clear the air about my background as a caveat but germane to this discussion, I grew up outwardly gender incongruent which pretty much means I was seen as a girl but was known as a boy. My parents took me to clueless therapists too when I was a young child. A bit later in life after a miserable time fitting into the world and despite trans youth not being a recognized thing at the time, I nevertheless was diagnosed with "primary transsexualism" and started HRT at 17 before my senior year of high school which upon graduation in 1973, I seamlessly and with little fanfare went "full time" and just blended into the woodwork working my way up in the pink collar world as just your average gal. I had SRS in 1977 when I was 22, was married when I was 30, divorced when I was 42 and pretty much all during this time up until a bit over three years ago was pretty much oblivious to even being of trans experience or having anything to do with it. Other than our special medical needs, it just wasn't a part of my life. In the real day-to-day world, it still isn't. I am not out about my medical history and have no desire to ever be.
With all the media visibility and with trans being turned into the political football it has become, it made the whole thing a little hard to ignore so I began to look for where I might have a place in all of this or even if I did and I really haven't found one except as I said, as an outsider. Being trans youth before we'd even been "discovered" as such adds to this point of view and certain attitudes I've encountered from those that aren't in the same early/late transitioning group should not be discounted as part of my perspective.
As Complete alluded, there seems to be a prescribed transgender dogma within the community that maybe you can't see if that's all you've ever known? It seems to have rules and boundaries that don't like to be violated by contrary opinion or even by those just playing devil's advocate to maybe help others gain a broader perspective or better understanding of themselves.
With my relatively recent "awakening" if you will, I have become a student of the trans phenomenon and in my several years of study and observation, it has been made clear that certain voices are not welcome in an echo chamber. That's not saying anything about this forum specifically but within the approved transgender narrative in general. If you disagree with something or your opinions go against the grain, happen to be unpopular or you ask too many questions, it's seen as nearly heretical by some who then vehemently feel the need to defend their position as upholders of the accepted transgender canon.
There seems to be a high degree of cognitive dissonance by some in the transgender community that prefer to not have their bubbles burst. I'd rather not rain on anyone's parade but it's not all unicorns and rainbows and there are some folks that aren't quite on-board with it all and these are things I think should be brought to the table in an open minded way if for no other reason than to have a better understanding of these things within ourselves.
So, this isn't really the time or place for that but my point was coming into today's trans world relatively from the cold but yet full of history, experience and different perspectives in some ways is quite jarring and may be a bit for everyone? Complete and I got over the whole trans thing early in life and have gone on to have full lives like any other woman but because we did change sex so many, many moons ago, by default our medical issues have included us in a group neither of us has ever belonged or asked to belong so when we are faced with group think we haven't been a part of, there's a natural tendency to want to call out things we might see as BS.
I understand Complete's criticism of "support".
As someone relatively new to the "transgender experience" but with a longer history being trans than most of you will ever know, it is hard to just hop on the bandwagon without being a little bit cynical or critical of certain aspects of the "trans movement". No harm is meant in this and I have no ill will toward anyone and hope everyone finds whatever it is that makes them happy and I'm still learning plenty of things myself but that's not by sticking my fingers in my ears and going la-la-la as to not hear something that falls outside of my paradigm.
So yeah, this has been my transgendered [Sic] experience pretty much too. Trans World has its own brand of political correctness and acceptable standards but living 60 years of my life in the non-trans world, in the last three or so years I have become interested in the other side, it's become quite eye-opening to say the least.
Topic locked for clean up.
I am getting utterly tired of people breaking TOS 5
5. The posting of messages on the chat or forums which are of a threatening tone; intended solely to communicate sarcasm, contempt, or derision; are intended to belittle or ridicule a person or group; to disgust the viewer; contain obscene or pornographic materials; which are intended to titillate; or which depicts/promotes illegal acts; will not be permitted.
I've removed two posts that contravene TOS 5, I have noted the members concerned for reference.
I shall reiterate a past warning:
If people place a post in order to just create an argument then it and they shall be dealt with.
I shall unlock the topic and I hope that correspondence will be civil and obey the Terms of Reference that you have signed to.
Quote from: Complete on October 13, 2018, 09:00:13 PM
...Had it not been for chancing to read a newspaper article about an individual "coming out at work as transgender", (a term l had never come across), in the early 2000's, l would never have re-engaged with what l have come to recognize as little more than a political lobby.
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Truthfully, it comes across as a bit "->-bleeped-<-r than thou".
We are all authentic regardless of when and how we found our path.
Without political lobbies, we would still have "Whites only" water fountains and lunch counters. Surely you don't see equality brought about by public concensus as a problem?
For the sake of clarity l will re-post what l have written, which is a tiny segment of what l posted.
"...Had it not been for chancing to read a newspaper article about an individual "coming out at work as transgender", (a term l had never come across), in the early 2000's, l would never have re-engaged with what l have come to recognize as little more than a political lobby."
Quote from: Devlyn on October 15, 2018, 02:49:55 AM
Can you clarify what you mean by this? Truthfully, it comes across as a bit "->-bleeped-<-r than thou".
We are all authentic regardless of when and how we found our path.
Without political lobbies, we would still have "Whites only" water fountains and lunch counters. Surely you don't see equality brought about by public concensus as a problem?
Firstly, l can in no way understand how anyone can somehow misconstrue this in any way with anything having to do with "tranier than thou". Frankly l see that particular expression a sad reflection of the kind of hierarchical pecking order that makes real support and understanding impossible.
My point was that since my recovery from SRS, l had left that entire medical chapter in my life far behind me. Remember by the early 2,000's, l was roughly 30 years post op, well into a very happy life, married to a retired aerospace engineer, and at that particular time having just disembarked from a lovely trans-Atlantic cruise.
This has nothing to do with authenticity or how or when you found yourself.
And no, l have nothing against political lobbies. What l do find distasteful however, is how certain lobbies use less than honorable means to advocate for their own partisan wants or desires at the expense of others and behaving as though the the ends justify any means.
Quote from: Complete on October 15, 2018, 11:27:06 AM
For the sake of clarity l will re-post what l have written, which is a tiny segment of what l posted.
"...Had it not been for chancing to read a newspaper article about an individual "coming out at work as transgender", (a term l had never come across), in the early 2000's, l would never have re-engaged with what l have come to recognize as little more than a political lobby."
Firstly, l can in no way understand how anyone can somehow misconstrue this in any way with anything having to do with "tranier than thou". Frankly l see that particular expression a sad reflection of the kind of hierarchical pecking order that makes real support and understanding impossible.
My point was that since my recovery from SRS, l had left that entire medical chapter in my life far behind me. Remember by the early 2,000's, l was roughly 30 years post op, well into a very happy life, married to a retired aerospace engineer, and at that particular time having just disembarked from a lovely trans-Atlantic cruise.
This has nothing to do with authenticity or how or when you found yourself.
And no, l have nothing against political lobbies. What l do find distasteful however, is how certain lobbies use less than honorable means to advocate for their own partisan wants or desires at the expense of others and behaving as though the the ends justify any means.
Well, even your suporter Lisa said your response was lacking in tact, perhaps that was where the "confusion" came into play. In any event, thanks for the clarification, and letting us see your true colours.
Quote from: Devlyn on October 15, 2018, 11:58:31 AM
Well, even your suporter Lisa said your response was lacking in tact, perhaps that was where the "confusion" came into play. In any event, thanks for the clarification, and letting us see your true colours.
I am happy that Lisa and l have been given the opportunity to clarify things for you.
Quote from: Lisa_K on October 14, 2018, 12:45:58 PM
As Complete alluded, there seems to be a prescribed transgender dogma within the community that maybe you can't see if that's all you've ever known? It seems to have rules and boundaries that don't like to be violated by contrary opinion or even by those just playing devil's advocate to maybe help others gain a broader perspective or better understanding of themselves.
One reason (besides it being an open to the public site) I don't participate that much here as that type of thing can't really be discussed here, and I think it's important.
i found the on-line "community" back in the late 80's... sort of when the current internal TG politics was really just getting started, and from then into the early mind 90's I ran in to a good number who did transition in the 70's as well as the those with with views currently popular... Yes there were a lot of arguments, strong emotions and hurt feelings... but it helped some figure what was important to them about transitioning and what type of life they really wanted for themselves.
I can see some value in most sides of things... While i transitioned over 21 years ago (SRS over 20 years ago), I did so in my early 40's. I was not obviously effeminate and did not have a feminine body at all (or much change from HRT)...
But wanting to be a girl does go all the way back to childhood (from preschool age Xdressing i was too young to remember that my mother told me about, to the point of sneaking out of the house x-dressed late at night in the mid/late 1960s while in grammar school - I thing it was the 6-7th grade- in a rough neighborhood )...
But I put that all behind me when I reached high school and grew a big masculine body... I thought had put that all behind me until I got to my mid 30s...
But then what I wanted for my life , where i felt I could realistically get to, and my relationship situation, were all in conflict in different ways...
All that is why I could see some value in the various positions. I never really resolved all the conflicts and I suspect I have a life that neither you nor Complete could relate to... but emotionally I can relate to what you say of yours even though mine has been allways will always be totally different.
Emotionally a lot of the TG politics and aims don't really resonate for me and some I have negative reaction to on a 'gut' level, but I have to admit in my situation I do benefit from some of them.
- Karen
Quote from: DawnOday on October 12, 2018, 04:05:05 PM
It's unfortunate but I am not. Transgender was not even a term until my forties. ...
Quote from: Lisa_K on October 14, 2018, 12:45:58 PM
... we've not been a part of the trans community ...
Quote from: Karen_A on October 16, 2018, 11:16:06 PM
...
i found the on-line "community" back in the late 80's ...
I don't know enough to have an opinion ABOUT the transgender community but reading posts by trans women in the same age group but with very different encounters with the transgender community, I started to wonder about when a transgender community started to exist.
I am guessing that when Lisa transitioned in her teens, openly trans people were too rare to form a community.
I understand that Karen transitioned at about age forty, more than twenty years ago but found an online community about thirty years ago. Even though transitioned trans people were presumably more numerous than they were when Lisa transitioned, could such a community have even existed before the creation of the Internet? Was the online community open or "underground"? (I am not referring to cultures in which there are ancient traditions of recognising transgender people, e.g. India and Thailand.)
Dawn, whom I understand transitioned much more recently than either Lisa or Karen, pointed out that even the NAME of the community did not come into usage until she was in her forties.
So, I'm wondering how much the Internet, and especially Susan's Place, contributed to the EXISTENCE of a transgender community. Perhaps someone more knowledgeable than me could start a separate thread on the topic.
Thank you all for you comments and positivity. My intent is not to offend. Here is my timeline. Born in 1951. That year Christine Jorgenson became the first American surgically altered transwoman. 1975 Dr Renee Richards transitioned surgically. Here is what she experienced and I also experienced such assessments. Richards began dressing as a woman, which at the time was considered to be a perversion, and transsexualism was classified as a form of insanity.[3] Richards named her female persona Renée, which is French for reborn.[3] This struggle with sexual identity created sexual confusion, depression, and suicidal tendencies.[6] 1981 Christine Tula Cossey having had transition surgery in 1974 was cast in "For your eyes only" It was not until watching her on The Phil Donahue show that I realized that maybe there were possibilities. I mean Donahue was dumbstruck and Christine has been a positive force ever since. Unfortunately I got sick soon after and when all was said and done I got another scare when I was told I would only survive for 5 - 10 years. That was over 25 years ago. It was not until I came to Susan's in Feb of 2016 that I even considered transition of any kind. Thanks to Dena and Hugh E who encouraged me to see the appropriate doctors. I have now been on HRT for 2 1/3 years. Obviously there have been many others that were able to get information that I never found available. other than through prayers. All I know for sure, is I no longer suffer from depression. My thoughts don't seem strange anymore. I understand why I was not satisfied with the perfect wife. I understand why I would fail at my first marriage no matter how much I loved her. I have peace of mind now that I never had before.
To those that were able to transition on your timeline I am so happy for you. I am envious. I wish I could have avoided the fear, guilt and anger. I wish I had the opportunity to advocate for our community these many years. I wish that when I first realized I was different that I could have convinced my folks to pursue some relief. I remember going to the doctors when my testes didn't drop, I remember discussing my small penis and why I seemed to be smaller than most the other boys in my junior high school gym class and why they would be commenting. I wish my prayers would have been answered. No, I take no offense at anyone who's experience has been different. In fact I value those differences.
In Seattle, The Ingersoll Gender Center has been in existence since 1977. The group has been meeting every Wednesday for the last 41 years.
Hi Dawn! It's been awhile since we've spoken. I recall our short discussion together in my Introduction post. It would seem we have been in the same boat together all these years. I believe you were already well into your HRT journey when we first spoke. I am glad to know you are still transitioning at your own pace.
Things have certainly changed a lot over the years. I keep hope that one day transitioning will become a simple thing, more affordable, safer regardless of health conditions and accessible for those of us in need. I look forward to a long relationship with you here at Susan's Place. Keep being you girl!
Hugs,
Donica.
Thanks Donica. I really appreciate your story and how you are able to find similarities. I spent most my life thinking there were no more than a handful of people like me. You all have opened my eyes. I am so glad to know I am not alone. I've got this incredible urge to just hug all my friends. Maybe it's just the female in me.
Quote from: DawnOday on November 16, 2018, 02:49:11 PM
Thank you all for you comments and positivity. My intent is not to offend. Here is my timeline. Born in 1951.
To those that were able to transition on your timeline I am so happy for you. I am envious. I wish I could have avoided the fear, guilt and anger. I wish I had the opportunity to advocate for our community these many years. I wish that when I first realized I was different that I could have convinced my folks to pursue some relief. No, I take no offense at anyone who's experience has been different. In fact I value those differences.
I was born in 1955 and I just wish to second Dawn's comment. I am so happy for those born in the 1950s or 1960s who were able to pursue treatment and transition in the 1970s and 1980s. I also value the differences.
Thankfully both the Internet and Susans have over the last 20 years brought so many of together - whereas previously we assumed we were alone.
Hugs to all
Pamela
Quote from: MaryT on November 16, 2018, 12:32:50 PM
I am guessing that when Lisa transitioned in her teens, openly trans people were too rare to form a community.
I grew up thinking there was no one else on the planet like me and had no words or concepts to understand anything other than I was a girl in spite of the obvious contradictory evidence that said otherwise. In the 5th grade, I came across the word ->-bleeped-<- in a dictionary and even though it wasn't really close, I figured I must be something like that and I thought the whole thing was pretty weird. I just went on being my normal self that wasn't enough boy to ever be seen or accepted as one and not enough girl to be one of them either and just figured I was somehow caught in the middle at least as far as others perceived me but inside, I knew and have always known who I am and did whatever I could to show that to the world.
By the 7th grade, what gender I was had become even harder for people to figure out and kids has started calling me names like queer and homo and for a time, I wondered if I really was gay even though I didn't like boys at all and avoided them because they were such total dicks to me and later in life would try to kill me but I didn't really like girls either, at least not that way, they were just who were on the side of the fence to which I belonged.
I had no "community" growing up. I didn't even have words or an understanding of what I was other than a girl that was somehow victim of a grand cosmic mistake and I couldn't imagine that there was anyone else on the entire planet like me that felt the things I did or was in a situation like mine. At least when I was "officially" diagnosed at 17, after years and years talking to clueless doctors, I had an understanding of my condition and a name for it and the language to talk about it. I wasn't really happy about it but it explained a lot why I had always struggled so hard and things had been so difficult for me growing up as a boy that never really passed as one.
Because there wasn't really a lot of information available, all I'd ever heard about people changing sex was the Christine Jorgensen story and while it was nice to know that such things were actually possible, it was like some far off fairytale land and I just couldn't relate or put myself in the same category. My life had been so different. According to my parents, my spirit and my true nature was something that was "always known" and I was nurtured as a child and not forced to inhibit my sense of who I was or my personality which is probably the most unusual aspect of my life considering this was in the 1960's and the problems it caused for me socially at school. I had no connection to anyone else in the world that might be having the problems I was having, the feelings I was having or was in a situation anything like mine at all. There simply was nobody else like me and if there was, there was simply no way to know about it so I grew up with this with just me, my mom and step-dad and eventually a doctor I could talk to about it with. The dark ages truly were.
The word transitioning that we use today as a verb wasn't neatly organized into a concept back then as it is now. What they really wanted you to do was blend into the world with the recommended path being to move to a new city and start life over as your new self as kind of an all or nothing proposition but this strategy didn't account for trans youth because we really hadn't been recognized as even being a conceivable thing at the time and there was no sort of roadmap what to do with us.
At any rate, socially I was really out there on the spectrum way past what today we'd probably label non-binary leaning toward the feminine side when, besides my already long blonde hair, I started what we'd now call the start of my physical transition kicking into high gear when I was 15. As probably the biggest spectacle anyone had ever seen, I graduated high school after being on HRT for a year and immediately went "full time" which was all such an anti-climactic, non-event and a relief to everyone.
Still, having survived through my brutal and violent school years and being accepted into the mainstream world as just a regular teenage girl, life still seemed very surreal and that there couldn't possibly be anyone else as strange as I was.
It wasn't until four years later when I was 22 and checked into the hospital for SRS that I had ever met or spoken to another trans person in my whole life. I wasn't alone after all but they weren't quite the same as me. None of them were young or grew up not hiding or not being able to hide who they were growing up and much as I had disconnected from the Christine Jorgensen story and couldn't relate, it was much the same with them and I never really felt any kind of sense of community or commonality other than we'd come from vastly different directions but mostly ended up in the same place.
I was more at home as part of the cisgender world and that was the circle I lived in. I had met gay and lesbian friends and kind of identified with them to some degree as just being different and felt a bit of comradeship on that front and although I did have a few of close both straight and queer friends that knew, I was not open or out about being trans and it wasn't really a thing so I never met or had the opportunity to meet or interact with any other people of trans experience.
I think it's human nature to seek out others like ourselves or to try to make connections and probably around the late 70's somewhere, (I had SRS in 1977) I was subscribed to a couple of newsletter type things that came in the mail which was the main way I learned about people like me but much of it was geared for the cross-dresser crowd and drag queen crowd because transsexual people really hadn't formed any sort of collective identity. After all, we were expected to blend into the woodwork and disappear so I became disenchanted with it all and since I didn't even want to be trans in the first place, I just closed my eyes to it all. Well before I had met my future husband at 29, I was so assimilated into the world and comfortable with my body, having anything at all to do with "trans" fell completely off my radar
for like the next 20 years.
After having been through a divorce and failed 5-year relationship after that in my late 40's, I went through a period of self-discovery and began to realize there was now this online world where other trans people were gathered and talked and as this was new to me, I took interest. I ended up meeting and getting to know a couple of local ladies and their friends for a few months which was a learning experience for me but things didn't work out because something about them was different or because they saw something different about me and it created tension and maybe jealousy? I learned to not care too much for and maybe be a little bit leery of older transitioners because it had proven to be a complicated dynamic with awkward situations so I once again withdrew into the shadows of non-trans awareness...
until I was 60 years old.
Totally by chance in a completely unrelated online forum, I met and got to know a 20-year old university student talking about her life growing up trans to try to educate and help others understand and we formed a friendship that changed me and changed the way I thought of myself and what I went through during my school years. For the first time in my life, I'd gotten to know somebody that was like me, that grew up like I did and fought the same battles and faced the same challenges at the same times in our lives and it was a revelation in acceptance and self-understanding.
I'm sure many of you here are looking for your own sense of community or where you fit into this whole big messy picture and I'm sure many of you here have found that sense of comradeship in others going through the same things dealing with coming out, family, marriages, transition and so on and that's a wonderful thing for you but from my perspective, the things that bond many of you together are the things that make me feel like more of an outlier.
Surely there are things we all do have in common or we probably wouldn't be here and it's not like I don't see a little of myself in all of you but most of the time it all just helps reinforce how much different my life has really been from those that did have to grow up hiding and repressing and did their best to play the part to fit into society and the world or didn't figure things out until later in life.
Disregarding any unpopular theories tied into sexuality and particularly not making value judgments of one over the other, does it not seem like there are two types of trans people? Without overcomplicating things, the most prominent distinction to me is if we went through this trans business at the same times in our lives, how much of our childhood and adolescence was affected by it getting there and how involved our parents were. In my tenure here, one young woman matched my "timeline" and life growing up almost to a tee and one other with unsupportive family that had to wait until she was 18 and neither are active anymore it seems so I really don't have some grand sense of community or of fitting in around here either.
So true, as an isolated kid growing up, into my teens, through transition and then into my early 20's, outside of things I'd read, I didn't realize real trans people actually existed in the real world until meeting them with my own eyes so maybe you can imagine what that was like growing up in a bubble and dealing with all this without the knowledge, experiences and wisdom of others that had come before me?
Being trans and by default grouped into the transgender community, particularly this one, finds me still isolated and alone although granted, more broadly knowledgeable and with a greater understanding about the different ways this condition has affected other's lives. It's hard to say if I had known about other trans kids growing up or even if doctors had known about us how that might have changed things? Perhaps I would have taken some comfort knowing that I wasn't the only one but when it comes right down to it, it seems likely that there wouldn't have been too many of us from my generation to know about in the first place? It does make me wonder though how many kids that were like me during the era I grew up that were sheltered away and kept hidden from society or simply didn't survive?
Needless to say that because I am posting here and thinking about this stuff, I'm still processing some of the things I went through as a kid because it's all pretty unimaginable but I really can't over think or over analyze too much because growing up with the family I had that loved and accepted me for me has always seemed like karma's way of balancing out nature's cruel mistake of being born male in the first place and it's probably best to not look a gift horse too closely in the mouth. For being born cursed, I have truly been blessed, fortunate and extremely privileged. I really haven't needed others to make me see this.
Quote from: Lisa_K on November 17, 2018, 05:42:20 PM
Disregarding any unpopular theories tied into sexuality and particularly not making value judgments of one over the other, does it not seem like there are two types of trans people? Without overcomplicating things, the most prominent distinction to me is if we went through this trans business at the same times in our lives, how much of our childhood and adolescence was affected by it getting there and how involved our parents were.
Sometime I think that and sometime not.
I think there is more of a continuum... maybe there are differenced in kind/etiology at the extreme ends of the continuum... probably are...
But for many of us things don't seem to be so clear.
I have run into some who said they had no inking that they even were "trans" until late in adulthood...
And I can not comprehend that because my experience was very different...
But as a child I always wanted to be girl (don't ask why ... I just did!) though I knew i was not...
From what my mother told me I was Xdressing when I was too young to remember it... and continued is secret when got about older...and was sneaking out of the house that way late at night in the 7-8th grades...
But then I have had some with your type of background say that if that was true i would have transitioned young... and some outright said I was lying to try and fit standard"trans narrative"""
At one time I let that bother me... but that long ago...
I grew up in a single parent family and mother was a WWII DP factory worker and an alcoholic who would up unemployed, so I had to take a lot of responsibility from a young age...
I was not very overtly "girly" and after puberty grew to be a big male bodied person and it seemed impossible... So I tried to put all that aside as childish nonsense and tried to get on with surviving life... and I did for awhile...
To this day I don't really understand WHY I have always IDed as I do... but one realizes at some point that does not really matter.
Our experience/lives have been HUGELY different for sure... Was that due to differences in situations growing up, differences in kind, or differences in intensity of the condition, or some combination of them all?
I don't know... and does it really matter?
I just try to accept people as I find them.
-karen
Quote from: DawnOday on October 12, 2018, 04:05:05 PM
But I want to be born a butterfly as moths are too plain.
I rather like being a moth. ;D If I start eating your clothes then, sure, pay attention. But until then... nothing to see, folks, move along, lol.
Quote from: Lisa_K on November 17, 2018, 05:42:20 PM
In the 5th grade, I came across the word ->-bleeped-<- in a dictionary and even though it wasn't really close, I figured I must be something like that and I thought the whole thing was pretty weird. I just went on being my normal self that wasn't enough boy to ever be seen or accepted as one and not enough girl to be one of them either and just figured I was somehow caught in the middle at least as far as others perceived me but inside, I knew and have always known who I am.
Disregarding any unpopular theories tied into sexuality and particularly not making value judgments of one over the other, does it not seem like there are two types of trans people? Without overcomplicating things, the most prominent distinction to me is if we went through this trans business at the same times in our lives, how much of our childhood and adolescence was affected by it getting there and how involved our parents were.
Hello again Lisa
As you know we have corresponded on previous threads and I am one of the many born at the same time as you but had to hide for decades. Purely by coincidence, I think our ages are very close - I was born in February 1955 and I recollect you were born very near to that time. Just a couple of comments on a couple of your paras highlighted:
1. This matches me precisely. Born in 1955, we would encounter the term ->-bleeped-<- around age 12 and would incorrectly assume it is closest to our situation but still somewhat inaccurate. We could consider ourselves "caught in the middle" and would encounter the term transsexual later perhaps aged 16 or 17.
2. So very true. I always wished to have been born a girl. I remember telling my grandmother aged 4 and my mother informed me that I had told her aged 2 but of course I do not remember an event that early in life but it is probably true. My parents also assumed I was ->-bleeped-<- and never really understood the difference between ->-bleeped-<-s and trannsexuals and didn't wish to know and disapproved of my situation throughout. I still loved my mother despite our major difference of opinion; she sadly passed away in 2015.
We are all unique and the only extraordinary aspect of my trans history is that my grandmother (incidentally born as long ago as 1890) seemed from several discussions I had with her as a child, to know something of ->-bleeped-<- matters. I will never know whether that was because transvestism was discussed much in her earlier life or whether they could be a hereditary aspect of ->-bleeped-<-. Food for thought.
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: Karen_A on November 17, 2018, 06:29:44 PM
I have run into some who said they had no inking that they even were "trans" until late in adulthood...
But as a child I always wanted to be girl (don't ask why ... I just did!) though I knew i was not...
-karen
Hello again Karen
I always wanted to a girl just like you and so many others on Susans but yes it is indeed true you may discover you are trans any age and it doesn't matter whether you realize at any age from 4 to 84! Some realise late in life with hindsight and then earlier events make sense. The penny has dropped.
Hugs
Pamela