Susan's Place Transgender Resources

Community Conversation => Transgender talk => Topic started by: dee82 on November 21, 2018, 09:57:09 PM

Title: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: dee82 on November 21, 2018, 09:57:09 PM
Okay, a light hearted post follows.

I was never a manly person, and avoided many of the habits and behaviours that come with being socialised as a male.

But one habit that I did pick up is the little nod guys give to other men, as some sort of "hello, I see you" thing.

And oh girl, no matter how much effort I put into my appearance and body language, I still find myself giving "the nod".

Honestly, this might sound silly and trivial, but for me I think it is the number one thing I do that gives away the old version of my public self.

It's no big deal, but every time I catch myself doing it, I have a mixture of laughter and "d*mn, must stop doing that" inside.
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Arianna Valentine on November 21, 2018, 10:10:58 PM
Quote from: dee82 on November 21, 2018, 09:57:09 PM
Okay, a light hearted post follows.

I was never a manly person, and avoided many of the habits and behaviours that come with being socialised as a male.

But one habit that I did pick up is the little nod guys give to other men, as some sort of "hello, I see you" thing.

And oh girl, no matter how much effort I put into my appearance and body language, I still find myself giving "the nod".

Honestly, this might sound silly and trivial, but for me I think it is the number one thing I do that gives away the old version of my public self.

It's no big deal, but every time I catch myself doing it, I have a mixture of laughter and "d*mn, must stop doing that" inside.
OMG I know about this way too much I still do the man nod but what I do to compensate it is smile big it seems to help because men don't smile big so it kind of helps a little bit

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Ryuichi13 on November 21, 2018, 10:16:39 PM
Now I have the opposite problem.

As a man, I need to learn to return that nod when its given to me!  ;)

Ryuichi
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Lacy on November 21, 2018, 10:46:57 PM
Quote from: dee82 on November 21, 2018, 09:57:09 PM
Okay, a light hearted post follows.

I was never a manly person, and avoided many of the habits and behaviours that come with being socialised as a male.

But one habit that I did pick up is the little nod guys give to other men, as some sort of "hello, I see you" thing.

And oh girl, no matter how much effort I put into my appearance and body language, I still find myself giving "the nod".

Honestly, this might sound silly and trivial, but for me I think it is the number one thing I do that gives away the old version of my public self.

It's no big deal, but every time I catch myself doing it, I have a mixture of laughter and "d*mn, must stop doing that" inside.
I recently had a similar experience! It was at work and was to a delivery person. Right after he left I went into my office and chastised myself!


Quote from: Ryuichi13 on November 21, 2018, 10:16:39 PM
Now I have the opposite problem.

As a man, I need to learn to return that nod when its given to me!  ;)

Ryuichi

Ryuichi,
Once you do it a few times, you will never stop! It is the most effective way men have come up with to say hi, without talking, showing emotion or having to be close to each other.

You will find that "The Nod" can also say more than "Hi". An attractive person walks by and a man can give you a nod and you nod back. You just had an entire conversation about the way they look and what you would do with them if possible.

It is one of those small thing that really gives you away as a female or passes you as a man.

Lacy
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Nikkimn on November 22, 2018, 01:32:21 AM
On the reverse side I enjoy the way women do it they smile at each other and the first time it happened to me it was great validation I'm part of the club [emoji2]


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Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Battle Goddess on November 22, 2018, 01:34:01 AM
Quote from: Ryuichi13 on November 21, 2018, 10:16:39 PM
Now I have the opposite problem.

As a man, I need to learn to return that nod when its given to me!  ;)

Ryuichi

Not only that, but eventually you'll learn to recognize and execute different kinds, each with their own subtle facial expressions, lengths of eye contact, and linked body language. The Nod can be a greeting, an acknowledgement, a challenge, or a mix of so many other things. Off the top of my head I can think of a couple I use routinely:


The Urban Sidewalk Nod, which means "I see you, and I have my eye on you." You look directly into the other guy's eyes as you approach to pass, and you make sure he makes eye contact before you nod and break contact. You'd think this would raise tensions, but it doesn't. It actually lowers tension because each guy knows the other guy can't surprise him.

The Elevator Nod, which means "I am only going to pretend that you exist for this one moment." Brief eye contact, if any, before you settle into place.

The Bar Stool Nod, which means "Mind the personal space, buddy, I'm sitting here." No eye contact. Use it when you sit down or he does. I always add a "hello" to make sure he can't pretend he didn't see me.

See? All kinds!  :)
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Ryuichi13 on November 22, 2018, 01:58:27 AM
Quote from: Battle Goddess on November 22, 2018, 01:34:01 AM
Not only that, but eventually you'll learn to recognize and execute different kinds, each with their own subtle facial expressions, lengths of eye contact, and linked body language. The Nod can be a greeting, an acknowledgement, a challenge, or a mix of so many other things. Off the top of my head I can think of a couple I use routinely:


The Urban Sidewalk Nod, which means "I see you, and I have my eye on you." You look directly into the other guy's eyes as you approach to pass, and you make sure he makes eye contact before you nod and break contact. You'd think this would raise tensions, but it doesn't. It actually lowers tension because each guy knows the other guy can't surprise him.

The Elevator Nod, which means "I am only going to pretend that you exist for this one moment." Brief eye contact, if any, before you settle into place.

The Bar Stool Nod, which means "Mind the personal space, buddy, I'm sitting here." No eye contact. Use it when you sit down or he does. I always add a "hello" to make sure he can't pretend he didn't see me.

See? All kinds!  :)

I should take notes!  Thanks for the info, I'm going to start using them.

Just one question.  Do I nod up or nod down?

Maybe this info should be added to the 'Being Socialized Male 101' (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=241460.0) thread.  :)

Ryuichi
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Clementineismine on November 22, 2018, 02:03:14 AM
A post about the man nod LOL I love it,  this topic / thread sounds like an episode of Seinfield!
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Battle Goddess on November 22, 2018, 02:33:06 AM
Quote from: Ryuichi13 on November 22, 2018, 01:58:27 AM
I should take notes!  Thanks for the info, I'm going to start using them.

Just one question.  Do I nod up or nod down?

Maybe this info should be added to the 'Being Socialized Male 101' (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=241460.0) thread.  :)

Ryuichi
Depends.

The way I use it, Down is for acknowledgment. Up implies imminent action, either on my part or to be taken on theirs.

For instance, eye contact, a nod up, and a flick of my eyes in a direction means "pay attention to that."

If I instead maintain eye contact after my nod but then incline my head in a certain direction, I'm telling them that something stupid is going on over there, and that I find it either a source of humor or an annoyance, and based on whether I seem to be smiling with the corners of my eyes, the other guy is supposed to either chuckle or go over there and take care of whatever blindingly obvious business any regular guy could see needs taking care of.

Sometimes I amaze myself with how manipulative I really am when I sit down and think about it. Oh, well. Whatever works.

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Devlyn on November 22, 2018, 02:48:54 AM
Great topic. I still catch myself giving the nod now and then.
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Chloe on November 22, 2018, 07:23:04 AM
Quote from: Ryuichi13 on November 22, 2018, 01:58:27 AM

Just one question.  Do I nod up or nod down?

lol Never gave much thought to this one way or another! According to Wikipedia it's -> "the casual nod up or the formal nod down" (whatever THAT means!)

       There are corollaries to this practice: hat-tipping (up? which means formal head down?) was a fairly common practice (until the era of ball-caps came along?) Among ladies a reciprocating nod was rare (a quick, slight curtsey instead?)
       And then there's the motorcycles passing "low wave" - whereas one lets go of handlebar with non-throttle left hand (in U.S. at least) and catch the wind down low, not really "a gay like wave". Where I live in the almost year-round biker South this practice is practically *mandatory* and, as far as can tell, gender neutral!
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Faith on November 22, 2018, 09:06:15 AM
I'll have to pay attention. I don't think I've given a nod since the first time I got the smile and Hi from another gal, I smile ... or not if it's a guy that's not worthy (trust me, I work with many that don't deserve acknowledgement)
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: ChrissyRyan on November 22, 2018, 09:29:39 AM
So if we are to shut our nods off, does this mean that I can "nod off" in boring meetings now?

Chrissy
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Lacy on November 22, 2018, 09:46:32 AM
Quote from: Ryuichi13 on November 22, 2018, 01:58:27 AM
I should take notes!  Thanks for the info, I'm going to start using them.

Just one question.  Do I nod up or nod down?

Maybe this info should be added to the 'Being Socialized Male 101' (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=241460.0) thread.  :)

Ryuichi
I always felt that a nod down was a sign of submission. It's an up Nod all the time for me. It is especially enjoying when they go down and you go up!

Lacy
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Faith on November 22, 2018, 10:35:53 AM
Quote from: RealLacy on November 22, 2018, 09:46:32 AM
I always felt that a nod down was a sign of submission. It's an up Nod all the time for me. It is especially enjoying when they go down and you go up!

Lacy

I always did the short quick nod down as acknowledgement. A deeper slow nod is one of respect to an equal. Submissive would be a nod down and stay down so as to avoid confrontation
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: NatalieRene on November 22, 2018, 01:06:06 PM
Quote from: Ryuichi13 on November 22, 2018, 01:58:27 AM
I should take notes!  Thanks for the info, I'm going to start using them.

Just one question.  Do I nod up or nod down?

Maybe this info should be added to the 'Being Socialized Male 101' (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php?topic=241460.0) thread.  :)

Ryuichi

Like many things male it's not too complicated. It's mostly sports this, sports that, burps, farts, nods, and grunts. Alone men vocabulary can also get quite vulgar.

Also the most peculair things after a fight a lot of times the men end up friends. I have never understood this aspect. It's almost like once they know their place they can be happy.
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: KathyLauren on November 22, 2018, 02:42:20 PM
Quote from: Ryuichi13 on November 22, 2018, 01:58:27 AM
Just one question.  Do I nod up or nod down?

I am pretty sure I have never seen a nod up, and I know I have never done one.  That would just be weird.  I have seen it in movies, where it means, "Hey, you, get over here", but never in real life.

The quick nod down is a sign of respect, not necessarily submission.
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Northern Star Girl on November 22, 2018, 03:02:57 PM
As my "old" self I never gave nods,  up or down, I would almost always say hello, have a nice day, or something like that to passerby's that caught my eye or caught their eye.  I still do that as a full-time female but I have to monitor myself when I  am doing that with men... they usually take it as "whoa, that blonde must like me"
Danielle 
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Faith on November 22, 2018, 03:06:09 PM
Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on November 22, 2018, 03:02:57 PM<snip>... they usually take it as "whoa, that blonde must like me"

male mental thoughts
OO!! She showed interest in me. What do I do? What do I say? How should I act?
One of three things
1 - Say something stupid
2 - Do something stupid
3 - let the moment pass and kick themselves for what they should have done, typically 1 or 2 above.
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Devlyn on November 22, 2018, 03:24:58 PM
Quote from: NatalieRene on November 22, 2018, 01:06:06 PM
Like many things male it's not too complicated. It's mostly sports this, sports that, burps, farts, nods, and grunts. Alone men vocabulary can also get quite vulgar.

Also the most peculair things after a fight a lot of times the men end up friends. I have never understood this aspect. It's almost like once they know their place they can be happy.

I ended up fast friends with some guys in the service after we threw hands. It's a respect thing, in my estimation.

Hugs, Devlyn
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: CarlyMcx on November 22, 2018, 08:29:05 PM
I'm trying hard to train myself out of the man nod.  If it is someone I know I smile and give a little wave if appropriate or greet them.  If it is someone I do not know or don't know well I usually dip my head or give a downward nod.  I just think it is a demure, feminine gesture.
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: David1987 on November 23, 2018, 12:24:42 AM
I've been doing the nod up all my life but I didn't think about it or think of it as gendered until someone mentioned it in the forum. To me it's practical and fast, you acknowledge the other person without having to engage in conversation. I think I combine smile with nod sometimes.
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Allison S on November 23, 2018, 01:11:11 AM
I never did any type of nod that I know of. I know I was teased because I would walk around with my head down at 11 or 12.
Maybe that's why I was never accepted into male circles. I didn't utilize the "nod" lol

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Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Linde on November 23, 2018, 02:55:53 AM
Quote from: Alaskan Danielle on November 22, 2018, 03:02:57 PM
As my "old" self I never gave nods,  up or down, I would almost always say hello, have a nice day, or something like that to passerby's that caught my eye or caught their eye.  I still do that as a full-time female but I have to monitor myself when I  am doing that with men... they usually take it as "whoa, that blonde must like me"
Danielle
I am like you, I cannot recall that I ever did any nodding.  Could it be a regional thing?  Up in te Nort Lant of Minnesonowta you would not see for about half the year if anybody is nodding, because everybody is bundled in so much that you hardly can see that the person has a face!
I know for sure that nobody in Germany or the Netherlands is nodding, cause that would show to much closeness to the other person.  After all, one has to keep ones distance and show no emotions!
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: dee82 on November 25, 2018, 11:44:37 PM
Quote from: CarlyMcx on November 22, 2018, 08:29:05 PM
I'm trying hard to train myself out of the man nod.  If it is someone I know I smile and give a little wave if appropriate or greet them.  If it is someone I do not know or don't know well I usually dip my head or give a downward nod.  I just think it is a demure, feminine gesture.
I am trying to learn the smile.

Btw I am still figuring out my way around here and keeping track of replies etc. I had no idea this had generated such interest. Glad it stimulated some discussion. That's nice to see.
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Sabrina Rei on November 26, 2018, 12:28:44 AM
I'm still boy mode at work but now that I think about it I don't recall any man nods recently. They used to happen fairly regularly because the hall outside our office is super long and it's hard to time a proper greeting. I got a few "'sup?"s and a "How you doing?"s to which I usually reply "Hey," possibly with a smile? Is that the wrong thing to do? I didn't even consider it.   
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Linde on November 26, 2018, 08:25:45 AM
Quote from: elle's bells on November 26, 2018, 12:28:44 AM
I'm still boy mode at work but now that I think about it I don't recall any man nods recently. They used to happen fairly regularly because the hall outside our office is super long and it's hard to time a proper greeting. I got a few "'sup?"s and a "How you doing?"s to which I usually reply "Hey," possibly with a smile? Is that the wrong thing to do? I didn't even consider it.
I think a smile can never be a wrong thing!
As I wrote already, I never recalled ever doing or seeing this male nod!  It really might be a cultural thing that was not common in Europe?  I did not learn it, and consequently I did not respond accordingly, and nobody nodded at me anymore?
I also have to say that I worked in a lab most of my life, and most of the labies were girls and not men.  This might have been the reason that i did not learn this nod?

Anyway, now I do not have to unlearn it, and can smile instead!
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: ChrissyRyan on November 26, 2018, 09:51:29 AM
This man nod notion, it is real for sure.

This was a good mannerism and set of signals to bring up, it helps mtfs and ftms.

Chrissy
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Arianna Valentine on November 26, 2018, 06:20:44 PM
Quote from: elle's bells on November 26, 2018, 12:28:44 AM
I'm still boy mode at work but now that I think about it I don't recall any man nods recently. They used to happen fairly regularly because the hall outside our office is super long and it's hard to time a proper greeting. I got a few "'sup?"s and a "How you doing?"s to which I usually reply "Hey," possibly with a smile? Is that the wrong thing to do? I didn't even consider it.
You know and this is a complete compliment you look alot like Mariska Hargitay from the Law & Order SVU show

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: MeTony on November 30, 2018, 01:42:38 AM
I do the nod up when I see people I know. It just comes automatic. I guess I learned it as a kid. Nod up is practical, like last night I was at a trans café. A guy enters the room (father of one of the trans kids). Instead of yelling "Hello! I see you!" Across the room I just nod at him when our eyes meet I say the same thing silent.


Tony
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Kylo on November 30, 2018, 11:32:07 AM
I see less nodding and more of this expression:

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/452961105522872320/eFX_I4Nt.jpeg

But it could be because I mostly pass guys daft enough to holiday here in November.

Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Michelle_P on November 30, 2018, 01:17:50 PM
For those of us on the MtF side, the Man Nod effortlessly becomes the Lesbian Nod, AKA Dyke Nod, to be given with a knowing smile to other women.   ;)
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: KarynMcD on November 30, 2018, 02:13:55 PM
The tv show black-ish did an episode on the nod. They say it's just for black/african-american's but it's similar for everyone.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Zn4NCsP9Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k0Zn4NCsP9Q)
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Arianna Valentine on November 30, 2018, 02:56:07 PM
Now that I'm actually more self-aware of the nod since this form topic came I started smiling instead of nodding now

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Linde on November 30, 2018, 03:55:36 PM
Quote from: Arianna Valentine on November 30, 2018, 02:56:07 PM
Now that I'm actually more self-aware of the nod since this form topic came I started smiling instead of nodding now

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?
I still don't know how to identify this nod!

We certainly did not do hat in Germany or the Netherlands, the countries I grew up in.  We did not do that at work, because two thirds of my coworkers were female.  I just did never learn this nod, and would not know if somebody tries to communicate with me this way?

This is said by a free of nod former male!  Another thing I have do not have to un-learn!
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Lacy on November 30, 2018, 03:59:03 PM
Quote from: Dietlind on November 30, 2018, 03:55:36 PM
I still don't know how to identify this nod!

We certainly did not do hat in Germany or the Netherlands, the countries I grew up in.  We did not do that at work, because two thirds of my coworkers were female.  I just did never learn this nod, and would not know if somebody tries to communicate with me this way?

This is said by a free of nod former male!  Another thing I have do not have to un-learn!
Ok...here is some information to clear everything up!

https://medium.com/re-write/the-man-nod-fcb56882a9b4

Enjoy,
Lacy
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Arianna Valentine on November 30, 2018, 04:42:55 PM
Quote from: Dietlind on November 30, 2018, 03:55:36 PM
I still don't know how to identify this nod!

We certainly did not do hat in Germany or the Netherlands, the countries I grew up in.  We did not do that at work, because two thirds of my coworkers were female.  I just did never learn this nod, and would not know if somebody tries to communicate with me this way?

This is said by a free of nod former male!  Another thing I have do not have to un-learn!
This is the best video I can find on YouTube to explain the nod


https://youtu.be/I7i9TwNS5OI

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Linde on November 30, 2018, 06:46:03 PM
Quote from: RealLacy on November 30, 2018, 03:59:03 PM
Ok...here is some information to clear everything up!

https://medium.com/re-write/the-man-nod-fcb56882a9b4

Enjoy,
Lacy
Well, I must have been out sick when that man nod should have been taught to me!  I cannot recall that I ever heard of it or ever used it!
Title: Re: Old Habits Die Hard: The Man Nod or Nod of Acknowledgement.
Post by: Linde on November 30, 2018, 06:57:48 PM
Quote from: Arianna Valentine on November 30, 2018, 04:42:55 PM
This is the best video I can find on YouTube to explain the nod


https://youtu.be/I7i9TwNS5OI

If you can't accept yourself,  how can you expect others to accept you?

Not known to me!  I don't need to un-learn it!