Hi all,
I'm curious to know what kind of social experiences others are having out in the world. Because of the current government administration's intolerance, there has been much concern regarding the treatment / acceptance of those of us who are members of the transgender community.
Personally, I haven't noticed any sort of increase of intolerant behavior. However, living in New Jersey, I may be a little sheltered from the pulse of the nation. The population here tends to be very accepting.
It may be different elsewhere, though, and I'd like to how the rest of you are coping?
Hugs,
Sally
I wasn't going out to cope, but I decided that's intensely boring so I've been going out more and more again
I was incredibly surprised last Thursday to see as much intolerance and ignorance as I did. And on a city like Chicago of all places. I went out for sushi with my best friend and his fiancé and had a table near us making crude jokes and comments all night about the "trap". I did my best to ignore them and just have a good night with my friends. They did make me feel a little better when his fiancé noted that the girls makeup at the table making the comments looked half assed compared to mine. My parents are this way too. Kind of leaves me terrified to tell them anything.
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I believe that acceptance also depends on where you are at. I live in Midtown Omaha and just this past Friday I was totally bundled up with only my face showing and some guy at the counter made a pass at me. He did not realize that I was a guy until I said something. LOL
No one said anything to either one of us.
Quote from: Sky1090 on December 03, 2018, 05:45:50 PM
I was incredibly surprised last Thursday to see as much intolerance and ignorance as I did. And on a city like Chicago of all places. I went out for sushi with my best friend and his fiancé and had a table near us making crude jokes and comments all night about the "trap". I did my best to ignore them and just have a good night with my friends. They did make me feel a little better when his fiancé noted that the girls makeup at the table making the comments looked half assed compared to mine. My parents are this way too. Kind of leaves me terrified to tell them anything.
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That is a shame I've vacationed in Chicago three times and loved it!
Well, I live in a different country, where trans rights are protected federally and provincially. Of course, we have ignoramuses here, too, but there are laws against discrimination.
My experience has been 100% positive. I have gotten the odd weird look, and some careless misgendering/pronouns, but no hostility. I am accepted everywhere I go. I have gotten feedback recently that I pass more often than I would have believed.
My neighbours accept me, and some are very supportive. I am respected in several fields in which I am active. Going full-time was the best thing I have done.
I think it is a characteristic of the population here in Nova Scotia that being nice matters. When folks here, even hillbillies and rednecks, encounter someone they don't understand, their instinct is to be nice to them. I have certainly benefited from that politeness.
Quote from: Sky1090 on December 03, 2018, 05:45:50 PM
I was incredibly surprised last Thursday to see as much intolerance and ignorance as I did. And on a city like Chicago of all places. I went out for sushi with my best friend and his fiancé and had a table near us making crude jokes and comments all night about the "trap". I did my best to ignore them and just have a good night with my friends. They did make me feel a little better when his fiancé noted that the girls makeup at the table making the comments looked half assed compared to mine. My parents are this way too. Kind of leaves me terrified to tell them anything.
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Fortunately I've not had to endure this so far. Well there may have been a group of young guys whispering getting in a car behind me, but no weird looks. I just kept on about my business. Either way I was right in front of the clinic so if all else failed, I had a safe escape. What did they expect parked right in front of a LGBT clinic. Starting to think we learn to grow a thick skin rather quickly. I'm more scared of a mugging coming and going around downtown alone at night.
My social interactions have been informing me lately the backlash against trans people isn't coming particularly from the Trump administration but from certain examples of trans activism and progression in the news.
What currently seems to be worrying the public (and of course critics of the trans community) online lately are issues like:
Anyone being able to identify as whatever they want - see: recent cases of mistaken gender in prisons, or in male/female prisoners identifying as trans and being moved to opposite sex prisons where they then go on to allegedly assault someone. The usual comment: "obviously this is going to happen if anyone can identify as anything they like."
Anyone being able to identify as any gender without transition walking into any gender of bathroom. Enough said,we know that story. Admittedly, there have been more cases of people abusing the ability to do this lately, sometimes just in an effort to troll the trans community, or to spark outrage.
Young children increasingly undergoing transition which is more heavily publicized, the willingness of doctors to prescribe hormone blockers before puberty without sufficient studies to show how much potential risk there is in this (according to those concerned), and the push by activists to make transition increasingly quick and easier for children.
Transgender prisoners getting HRT and surgery "on the public's dime". Some are outraged that a lawbreaker should get such a privilege at all, some are outraged that a prisoner will probably get a transition fast-tracked while non-offending trans persons wait 3 to 5 years for the same. (Case in point, this happened in the UK, inmate serving time for murder has been granted access to transition on the NHS).
Schools in UK (Scotland) announcing they are now going to adopt a mandatory LGBTI curriculum; some parents and individuals object to this. Some also object to the idea of "transgender schools" which I believe are running in Australia right now, objection ranging from religious outrage to the criticism of the long-term usefulness of "safe spaces".
The rising rate of detransition, particularly among the teenaged to 20s something FTM demographic.
Whether the military should pay for transgender treatments in other countries than the US.
Laws protecting pronouns and allowing prosecution for not using them being another erosion of free speech.
...and so on. I see this on a consistent basis as there's a news story being posted around or talked about somewhere on some issue to do with the trans demographic almost daily now. On the plus side, the pure bigotry is in the minority and the majority of concerns are about the fact we are moving forward too rapidly in expecting society to change itself to meet our needs, as well as so rapidly that we aren't measuring the risk to making transition easier for young children. Which are valid points to be concerned about, in my opinion.
I deal with talking to people about this almost every day, thankfully usually on a rational/discussion basis. The backlash from what I can see is most definitely coming - on social media, YT etc. and from there filtering into real life - more from the concern towards kids, the teaching of "trans ideology" to those kids, and the potential for criminal "grey areas" caused by items of legislation intended to protect us. And the odd person here and there just wants to complain about medical resources being spent on us, or is just a religious zealot, but those are rare compared (in my experience).
People have some valid concerns. How are we going to deal with the idea of choosing gender and the problem of gendered spaces designed to protect people? How are we going to deal with the subject of trans felons? Should we teach children about this at a young age or not? I don't know. And other people are worried, too. The more visible we become, the more flak we are going to get... at least while we are perceived to be encroaching on other people's rights.
Some of those concerns are not coming from trans activism and progress, but from political agitation. It may not be specifically from the Trump administration, but some of them are "concerns" manufactured for political agitation by people of similar political and social orientation. The one about pronoun laws, for example is entirely bogus, but gets quoted frequently because its originator is a savvy propagandist.
In California, I believe? Although I think Canada just passed a bill on pronoun use among their healthcare staff. Some people have already fallen afoul of the issue in schools on pronouns use in Oxford, UK, when a teacher was suspended and investigated for calling a trans student the incorrect pronoun on one occasion last year. People see this stuff in the news and view it as punishment not befitting the "crime" and don't look favourably on us. Especially if people are going to start losing their jobs over this stuff. We're not getting any public sympathy from it that's for sure. . .
Quote from: Kylo on December 03, 2018, 08:51:41 PM
In California, I believe? Although I think Canada just passed a bill on pronoun use among their healthcare staff. Some people have already fallen afoul of the issue in schools on pronouns use in Oxford, UK, when a teacher was suspended and investigated for calling a trans student the incorrect pronoun on one occasion last year. People see this stuff in the news and view it as punishment not befitting the "crime" and don't look favourably on us. Especially if people are going to start losing their jobs over this stuff. We're not getting any public sympathy from it that's for sure. . .
Ouch.
I live near Colorado Springs, CO. Socially I have not had any issues at all. The only person I ever heard make a negative comment was a cook at a hotel I stayed at in Madison, WI. I complained about him to the front desk and a week or two later got a note from a hotel manager stating that the cook had been chastised.
Everyone at work has been great, and I have made several new friends. All of the government offices I had to deal with for my name and gender marker change were also very respectful.
All positive, except for the crazy time another friend innocently outed me to my date at dinner. The most socially awkward thing for me is dealing with the attention of men. I'm months away from being ready for prime time, if you catch my drift, but I'd go bored out of my mind if I didn't go out. Choosing the right time to disclose to someone you're dating can be nerve racking. So, GCS will vastly improve social interaction for me.
New Zealand is very accepting. I get the odd misgender sometimes but most people accept that trans people are people. Even if they don't want to have much to do with us, they still have no choice but to be publically accepting. I transitioned at work, and just got sign off on my full registration a year later. Not easy, but possible.
I live pretty much in the most republican and conservative area in Florida (Fort Myers), and have not had any problems. Everybody is very supportive and freindly. I was concerned about my neighbors family, who is from Cuba. But all I got as an answer when I came out was " cool! how shall we call you now!"
Quote from: sally0196 on December 03, 2018, 04:54:08 PM
Hi all,
I'm curious to know what kind of social experiences others are having out in the world. Because of the current government administration's intolerance, there has been much concern regarding the treatment / acceptance of those of us who are members of the transgender community.
Personally, I haven't noticed any sort of increase of intolerant behavior. However, living in New Jersey, I may be a little sheltered from the pulse of the nation. The population here tends to be very accepting.
It may be different elsewhere, though, and I'd like to how the rest of you are coping?
Hugs,
Sally
Hello Sally
I shall be going fulltime in 2019. Therefore I can only give my personal perspective from going for a walk in the park or going for a coffee. I have had a few "long stares" but only once have I been insulted.
With regard to discussing when by chance the transgender subject comes up, my view here in UK is that the younger generation understand and accept in general but I witness at times from the older generation somewhat of an anti-reaction sadly.
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: Jessica_Rose on December 03, 2018, 09:14:55 PM
I live near Colorado Springs, CO. Socially I have not had any issues at all. The only person I ever heard make a negative comment was a cook at a hotel I stayed at in Madison, WI. I complained about him to the front desk and a week or two later got a note from a hotel manager stating that the cook had been chastised.
What hotel was this at Jessica? I'm traveling to Madison in a couple of weeks. Just want to know what I could expect.
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Quote from: Kylo on December 03, 2018, 08:51:41 PM
In California, I believe? Although I think Canada just passed a bill on pronoun use among their healthcare staff.
I don't know about California, but in Canada, there is no law regulating pronoun use. This is an untruth manufactured by one guy.
Some companies and institutions may have internal policies that deem incorrect pronoun use to be disrespectful and therefore not allowed, but such policies are not laws.
I'm in a similar position Pamela, in that my excursions out as Randi are infrequent and limited. Social interaction is confined to strangers and store clerks for the most part. For the most part, it's been positive. Lots of smiles. To be sure, there is a sense sometimes of being clownish or disrespected there, but that sense is heavily laced with paranoia, internalized transphobia, and bull->-bleeped-<- male pride. If someone is giving me a sincere smile, I'm good. There are some people that are clearly uncomfortable with me. They won't make eye contact when appropriate, or it's clear they want me to do my business quickly and move on, but that's minor stuff. My biggest hater continues to be...myself. The public at large doesn't have strong feelings one way or the other. Being out to friends and family is territory I haven't traveled yet. Feels terrifying I have to say. For some reason, these lines from a song in Hamilton keep popping into my brain.
You got skin in the game, you stay in the game
You don't get a win unless you play in the game
Oh, you get love for it
You get hate for it
You get nothing if you wait for it, wait for it
That rings true to me, and I don't know that I can keep waiting.
Quote from: GingerVicki on December 03, 2018, 06:09:23 PM
That is a shame I've vacationed in Chicago three times and loved it!
I mean, I love my city. There's so much to do and everyone is typically very accepting and welcoming. I don't know where this table of idiots was from when we were out. They definitely didn't seem to be locals to me. Just a shame seeing people act so childish
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Quote from: Sky1090 on December 04, 2018, 06:40:48 AM
What hotel was this at Jessica? I'm traveling to Madison in a couple of weeks. Just want to know what I could expect.
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I stayed at the Best Western West, near the West Towne Mall. My first visit was in May of this year. I stayed at the same hotel in October and didn't have any issues. On both trips my daughter and I went shopping and hiking, and we ate out often. We were out in public most of the time and I don't remember hearing any offensive comments or noticing any rude behaviors. Other than that cook, my visits there have been uneventful.
Madison is supposed to be very lgbtq friendly. I was surprised to hear about that cook. I've stayed at that best western before but that was a couple years ago. We're staying downtown this time at HotelRED
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Hi All,
I was out one time and a man ask me if I was wearing my wife's clothes.
I looked him dead in the aya and said why no dear I am not these are MY clothes I bought and paid for them my self. But she did help me pick them out.
AJ
I have noticed here in the states that down south there is still a lot of the old school religious up bringing and have had the misfortune of having had to endure through a couple not pleasant episodes.
I have noticed when out shopping that most are polite and respectful. I did run into one woman though who saw me and she just went off on a tirade. I was shopping for a couple tops and a pair of jeans. That was so far my scariest moment out in public. Most of the time sadly I get the long stares and snickering behind my back. Which can be fairly deflating after a while.
I did have a encounter out at the local grocery that was positive. A older gentleman bumped into my cart and apologized using the correct pronouns. I just smiled and nodded. My voice being the most problematic for giving me away.
I think most of the time though when we are out most people are not really paying any attention at all. Most people are just too rapped up in their own lives to even notice us or even care.
I think most of the younger generation are excepting and the older generations are the most un-excepting of us transgender people. As the older folks die off hopefully things will change with time.
Lisa
Hello Lisa
I agree with everything you say. It is just the same in the UK. The opposition comes from the some members of the two demographics you mention: those with extreme evangelical religious views usually the "born again type" and the older generation.
Times are changing; most people are indifferent and concentrate on their own lives and business; we are gaining more understanding and acceptance gradually.
Hugs
Pamela
I don't know whether I live in a bubble, or what is going on here. I am definitely in one of the more conservative areas in the country, and an area with a rather old population (waiting room to heaven). I am not a spring chicken anymore either, and have mostly older people in my environment. But I have not once felt rejected, and receive almost all my support from those older individuals, some of whom are pretty religious. All persons Ideal with on a daily base have a college education, some have an advanced degree.
I almost feel that acceptance has less to do with age, but more with education, and being open to the developments of the world in which we live, which in turn, seems to be more common in well educated people.
Yes Linde. I agree and I should have made that point myself. Education and being aware of the world (news/science) is certainly relevant and aids understanding the transgender subject.
Hugs
Pamela
Quote from: pamelatransuk on December 05, 2018, 07:16:37 AM
Yes Linde. I agree and I should have made that point myself. Education and being aware of the world (news/science) is certainly relevant and aids understanding the transgender subject.
Hugs
Pamela
Speaking about learning and education, PFLAG has a free online publication for "allies of transgender people." It is informative and worthwhile to take a glance at, even for transgender people themselves.
Search for it on the Internet, it is a downloadble PDF. They also have printed versions.
Chrissy
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on December 05, 2018, 07:47:07 AM
Speaking about learning and education, PFLAG has a free online publication for "allies of transgender people." It is informative and worthwhile to take a glance at, even for transgender people themselves.
Search for it on the Internet, it is a downloadble PDF. They also have printed versions.
Chrissy
Thanks! My cis lady support group almost inhales anything they can find to understand my situation better. I am really blessed with my girl friends!
On a positive note of public interactions, I went out a few weeks ago as part of my "screw this not living my life!" mantra, and was sir'd! I haven't been properly gendered in a long time. This was also a person who's known us since before I transitioned, so it was so affirming to hear that!
Quote from: Dietlind on December 03, 2018, 11:58:12 PM
I live pretty much in the most republican and conservative area in Florida (Fort Myers), and have not had any problems. Everybody is very supportive and freindly. I was concerned about my neighbors family, who is from Cuba. But all I got as an answer when I came out was " cool! how shall we call you now!"
I wouldn't think there would be a problem down there. You've gone far enough south it's north again. Mostly NJNY expatriates that way.