So I'm sure some of you have seen this, but some may not have. There is a viral video circling the internet right now that directly affects the trans community. In the video, a trans woman erupts on a GameStop employee threatening him and picking a fight over being misgendered. Link to a news article regarding the incident can be found below. Just curious what your views are on this?
Personally, I believe the individual in this video is DEAD WRONG. I understand being misgendered sucks. It's hard to go through a transition and constantly be shot down by the unaccepting public eye. However, this is not the way to solve the worlds problems. This is disgusting. It upsets me more seeing someone who apparently defends trans rights shoot us in the foot by showing the public we are exactly what they think we are. Mentally unstable, crazy and sick. This is animalistic behavior.
Anyway here's a link to the video. What do you think? Handled properly?
< Link to "Transgender goes off on GameStop Employee" video removed by moderator - Susan's Terms of Service (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) >
Quote from: Sky1090 on December 29, 2018, 09:44:02 PM
So I'm sure some of you have seen this, but some may not have. There is a viral video circling the internet right now that directly affects the trans community. In the video, a trans woman erupts on a GameStop employee threatening him and picking a fight over being misgendered. Link to a news article regarding the incident can be found below. Just curious what your views are on this?
Personally, I believe the individual in this video is DEAD WRONG. I understand being misgendered sucks. It's hard to go through a transition and constantly be shot down by the unaccepting public eye. However, this is not the way to solve the worlds problems. This is disgusting. It upsets me more seeing someone who apparently defends trans rights shoot us in the foot by showing the public we are exactly what they think we are. Mentally unstable, crazy and sick. This is animalistic behavior.
Anyway here's a link to the video. What do you think? Handled properly?
< Link to "Transgender goes off on GameStop Employee" video removed by moderator - Susan's Terms of Service (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) >
I wonder if that really is a transwoman? If so Huge Cringe Factor! Not to mention extremely bad manners.
Maybe its an anti-trans activist trying to discredit trans people?
Thanks for making us aware of this Sky!
Kirsten[emoji102]
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And the worst part about the whole thing is how the public has taken this. Honestly, I don't even blame the public. I feel person in this video has brought a huge shame to our community. You want us to be viewed as equal in the public eye? Don't act like a fool.
And excuse me for speaking out of turn but what upsets me the most is she is picking a fight (like a high school bully) with this poor guy behind the counter who by mistake probably misgendered based on voice. It's an easy mistake. I do not have respect for her in the slightest. <Removed by moderator, Susan's Terms of Service #10> (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)
You think this behavior equals standing up for our rights and for yourself? Think again. This just set the whole community about a million steps back. <Removed by moderator, TOS 5> (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) Reason to ignore us and claim this is truly a mental disease.
Kirsten I totally agree with you. <Removed by moderator, TOS 10> (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) Whatever this is, it's not right. <Removed by moderator, TOS 10> (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)
Here's some of the YouTube comments on this video. I've gone through 3 pages of comments and each is worse than the last.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181230/59d8f12b9b8b4cf28381d6549284cc5b.jpg)
<Several images removed by moderator, TOS 4 (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html)>
This may be controversial, but I have been thinking lately that people have a right to call us sir or ma'am as they perceive us. I get angry and depressed and hurt when I am called sir but I don't think that I have any right to demand that someone change there firmly held beliefs about me. It's a free country. And mostly civilized. When people are educated on ->-bleeped-<- 90% of them will do the right thing but demanding people think a certain way is Orwellian IMO.
Also, I agree this could be all fake.
Quote from: Janes Groove on December 29, 2018, 11:10:46 PM
This may be controversial, but I have been thinking lately that people have a right to call us sir or ma'am as they perceive us. I get angry and depressed and hurt when I am called sir but I don't think that I have any right to demand that someone change there firmly held beliefs about me. It's a free country. And mostly civilized. When people are educated on ->-bleeped-<- 90% of them will do the right thing but demanding people think a certain way is Orwellian IMO.
Also, I agree this could be all fake.
That's exactly the point I was trying to get at. You summed everything up very well!
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I went to YouTube and watched the video. Some observations:
1. Lots of guys are reposting it in a pathetic effort to gain or drive web traffic.
2. She looks like the real deal. (She has long hair, no beard shadow and breasts and facial contours appear to indicate some HRT)
3. Having a public meltdown over being misgendered and doing it on video makes us all look bad.
4. Maybe she was low on hormones, or just had a bad day, or may have a comorbid autism condition or mental health condition.
5. Maybe she was set up. The timing of the video is suspicious.
I am really sorry this happened. But, this is how it is. The young women who work at my favorite gas station still call me "sir" but they knew me before transition, they are friendly, and there is no malice in it. I'm not going to trouble myself trying to correct them; there is nothing to be gained by it.
I've been intentionally misgendered twice, both times by tall, macho looking middle aged men. I don't go looking for fights. It happens, it sucks, but if you want to win a war, you choose your battles. And if you want to win a war for acceptance, you learn diplomacy.
Hugs, Carly
locked for review
I can't see this thread going anywhere good.
This comment alone should never be posted on this site as it is transphobic.
"This does not strike me as a trans woman. This strikes me at best as a crossdresser who is not at ease with themselves."
Please read the TOS before posting such comments and threads again.
Topic is now unlocked after edits by moderator.
The behavior of the individual in question does not reflect well on us.
I've been saying this for a while here. Going about the world with hostility toward others doesn't endear us in general to anyone. The pronouns issue is one where if we start acting like this person we will not have the public on side. We're going to need the public on side in the future because the world is changing and with it the laws and attitudes will change. We may not always have legal protections. Being over zealous in asserting your "right" to be called x y z may work today but you can see the public's reaction to the video - we may not have those rights tomorrow. Better to be seen as civil and non-threatening than hostile, rude or crazy (because I do believe we will always be a biological minority).
A faulty generalization is a conclusion about all or many instances of a phenomenon that has been reached on the basis of just one or just a few instances of that phenomenon.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faulty_generalization
How do you think cis-males would respond if people assumed some of there worst were indicative of the general population?
In other words this is a dishonest smear.
Have a nice day,
Paige :)
This hit piece was published on YouTube by Marcus Rodgers an evangelist minister. Who has just gotten divorced. A closely held religious belief. Not. Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife, to have and to hold through sickness and health, for richer or poorer, until death us do part.
I haven't seen it yet, but is it too hard to ask what a person's pronoun is? If a person looks gender non conforming in 2018, why lead off with "Sir?"
On the other hand, you have to have self control because as the customer, you are in power. You can tell the gamestop worker - "You just talked yourself out of a sale". And walk off. Then warn other trans people on social media and trans allies to stay away. The story should be about the company's failings, not your behaviour. That's assuming this isn't a set up. I understand the desire to make them understand that they hurt you but one must realize anyone who intentionally misgenders is a troll. Just like how TERFS use dudebro and all kinds of completely unnecessary labels on transwomen. It's a malicious attack designed to hurt.
Quote from: DawnOday on December 30, 2018, 11:40:28 AM
This hit piece was published on YouTube by Marcus Rodgers an evangelist minister. Who has just gotten divorced. A closely held religious belief. Not. Do you take this woman to be your lawfully wedded wife, to have and to hold through sickness and health, for richer or poorer, until death us do part.
This Rodgers cat is a real piece of work. He got kicked out of the army after managing to drown a fellow soldier while baptizing him. https://www.christianpost.com/news/popular-internet-preacher-marcus-rogers-announces-divorce-losing-job-with-army.html (https://www.christianpost.com/news/popular-internet-preacher-marcus-rogers-announces-divorce-losing-job-with-army.html)
Quote from: Janes Groove on December 29, 2018, 11:10:46 PM
This may be controversial, but I have been thinking lately that people have a right to call us sir or ma'am as they perceive us. I get angry and depressed and hurt when I am called sir but I don't think that I have any right to demand that someone change there firmly held beliefs about me. It's a free country. And mostly civilized. When people are educated on ->-bleeped-<- 90% of them will do the right thing but demanding people think a certain way is Orwellian IMO.
Also, I agree this could be all fake.
I am so glad to hear someone else say this.
I know that people have different thresholds for being triggered by being misgendered, and this woman may have heard "Sir" for the umpteenth time and just exploded. If that's the case, I sympathize.
But this kind of behavior cannot be tolerated in a public place. It's uncivil. If I were working at the store, I would have asked her to leave, then called the police if she didn't. Abusing the stock as she did justified it, but so did her cursing.
Quote from: Ann W on December 30, 2018, 09:10:35 PM
I am so glad to hear someone else say this.
I know that people have different thresholds for being triggered by being misgendered, and this woman may have heard "Sir" for the umpteenth time and just exploded. If that's the case, I sympathize.
But this kind of behavior cannot be tolerated in a public place. It's uncivil. If I were working at the store, I would have asked her to leave, then called the police if she didn't. Abusing the stock as she did justified it, but so did her cursing.
I think if this person would have been as cis person, this person would have reacted similar caused by another wording , the person would have considered to be an insult. This reaction had nothing to do with trans or any gender, it was just the reaction of an angry person out of control!
LOL I hate how people judge all of us on things like this.
Ther is CIS men and women who have big melt downs like this too.
But in the end of they day totally unfemale traits to go nuts like that.
An embarrassment really :/
There's a cisgender woman who had a meltdown on an airplane when a man with a medical emergency had to get off and it delayed their flight. She became belligerent and threatened to have the attendant sniper'd. Yet, when it was reported on, they mentioned her PTSD from war time to elicit empathy. Where is our empathy for this GameStop woman? We don't know her life but we all know the pain being constantly misgendered can inflict. Shouldn't her situation be treated with the same respect to her trauma? It saddens me that even here we're so quick to distance ourselves from her, to label her an outlier, and question her validity. She behaved badly but condemn the sin not the sinner.
Quote from: elle's bells on December 31, 2018, 04:21:48 AM
There's a cisgender woman who had a meltdown on an airplane when a man with a medical emergency had to get off and it delayed their flight. She became belligerent and threatened to have the attendant sniper'd. Yet, when it was reported on, they mentioned her PTSD from war time to elicit empathy. Where is our empathy for this GameStop woman? We don't know her life but we all know the pain being constantly misgendered can inflict. Shouldn't her situation be treated with the same respect to her trauma? It saddens me that even here we're so quick to distance ourselves from her, to label her an outlier, and question her validity. She behaved badly but condemn the sin not the sinner.
Hi Elle,
You're right we shouldn't judge without walking a mile in her shoes but at the same time all transgender people shouldn't be generalized over one or a few incidents. I don't think these two points are mutually exclusive.
Take care,
Paige :)
The issue is the whole community getting judged by the action of one individual in one incident. This is fairly common for minorities.
There are videos of white cis people losing their s*** and the reaction is "wow that person is nuts". A minority loses their s*** and its "wow, (insert minority group)s are nuts".
Here is a good read on that
https://genderexpressive.wordpress.com/2018/12/30/held-to-a-higher-standard/
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Transgender people are people just like everyone else. And guess what? There are a lot of unstable people out there, trans or cis.
Quote from: Sky1090 on December 29, 2018, 09:44:02 PM
So I'm sure some of you have seen this, but some may not have. There is a viral video circling the internet right now that directly affects the trans community. In the video, a trans woman erupts on a GameStop employee threatening him and picking a fight over being misgendered. Link to a news article regarding the incident can be found below. Just curious what your views are on this?
Personally, I believe the individual in this video is DEAD WRONG. I understand being misgendered sucks. It's hard to go through a transition and constantly be shot down by the unaccepting public eye. However, this is not the way to solve the worlds problems. This is disgusting. It upsets me more seeing someone who apparently defends trans rights shoot us in the foot by showing the public we are exactly what they think we are. Mentally unstable, crazy and sick. This is animalistic behavior.
Anyway here's a link to the video. What do you think? Handled properly?
< Link to "Transgender goes off on GameStop Employee" video removed by moderator - Susan's Terms of Service (https://www.susans.org/forums/index.php/topic,2.0.html) >
Yes I have seen the video. The person is really wrong. Stuff happens...suck it up buttercup and move on!! Why draw more attention to yourself as well as our community...like now it is gathering so much media attention......bad publicity is no good.
She should have just moved along.
My opinion only.....
Interesting how no one's seemed to be able to find her name. No news outlet, no matter how trasphobic, has been able to find her social media. Gamestop has offered no statement, and no one involved in the incident has said anything. It's just a bunch of right wing outlets sharing and repeating the same article.
Very suspicious. Very set up.
???
Quote from: JMJW on January 01, 2019, 11:31:31 AM
Interesting how no one's seemed to be able to find her name. No news outlet, no matter how trasphobic, has been able to find her social media. Gamestop has offered no statement, and no one involved in the incident has said anything. It's just a bunch of right wing outlets sharing and repeating the same article.
Very suspicious. Very set up.
???
I wonder if it wasn't a set up for some fake news propaganda?
I watched this video several times. Thanks for sharing. I applaud this woman for going out in her truth. She came across so upset and enraged for more reasons than one. I really want to give her a big hug, and whisk her away.
Quote from: Ms. Bee on January 04, 2019, 07:50:49 PM
I watched this video several times. Thanks for sharing. I applaud this woman for going out in her truth. She came across so upset and enraged for more reasons than one. I really want to give her a big hug, and whisk her away.
Personally I feel like behaviour like this deserves a slap more than anything.
Be they trans or not!
I've seen people of all stripes behaving this way, could be a set up but I kind of doubt it. The way the shopkeeper responded was exactly the way they are supposed to, the rest of the people in the shop behaved the way they typically would when a random person kicks off - and the person recording started in the middle of the exchange and was trying to keep out of sight while recording, which makes sense.
The fact they haven't been found and identified is probably a good thing if it's a real incident - but that argument goes both ways: if it's real someone will eventually identify who it is, and if it's an actor, someone will eventually identify who it is. I'm sure there's curious types on both sides wanting to expose who this person is, you know what the internet's like.
Why don't you just drop this sir and ma'am system? Feels so old.
It's been several days and we still know nothing about this person. Nobody has said anything. The employee and everyone else might be real, but it could easily be a transphobic cis dude in make up and clothes. This individual didn't look like they'd been on HRT. It's too many of the worst stereotypes packed into just a minute and a half. It's too concentrated to be real life.
Quote from: JMJW on January 01, 2019, 11:31:31 AM
Interesting how no one's seemed to be able to find her name. No news outlet, no matter how trasphobic, has been able to find her social media. Gamestop has offered no statement, and no one involved in the incident has said anything. It's just a bunch of right wing outlets sharing and repeating the same article.
Very suspicious. Very set up.
???
Am in a Facebook group that this woman posted to in an attempt to defend herself. It is a trans feminine forum and the responses to her were quite critical. Based on that, I do not believe this to be a setup.
At the end of the day she picked the wrong battle and because someone recorded it, will haunted for many many moons. Viral videos can do a lot of damage and this to me was a form of bullying back at her. She could lose her job and already faces public shaming.
I do feel bad for the woman but also did have to wonder if she really is trans based on the video; I saw a man in women's clothes based on the posture, voice, mannerisms, attitude and aggressiveness. That's my stereotyping as a Tran woman, so I can see why she got misgendered.
I view misgendering internally and as a reality check in how I am perceived, and try to understand what in that moment, despite my attire, makeup, DD breasts and long hair caused it. Lately that happens once or less a month, but it wasn't always that way.
At the end of the day this video pisses me off because it is being used for anti trans propaganda. A friend of a friend of my ex tagged me in it. I was so stunned to be associated with this that I cried and called my ex who was equally stunned. A typical female reaction by both of us.
This is a good example of
1. We are a minority group
2. We are not understood and generally considered somewhere on a spectrum from "not normal" to "mentally ill"
3. We live in a society of fear and hate, particularly since the start of the 2016 election cycle
4. Each one of us can cause damage to the way others are perceived
This brings back the old conversation about passing and if it is important or not. To me it is very important. I fo not identify as a man or as a trans woman. I identify as a woman, which means that my trans-ness is between me and God and I don't want everyone else to be in on that knowledge. That's just my needs and desires and everyone is different, but this video highlights my intrinsic need to not be identified as trans and associated with that kind of caricature of trans women represented in this video.
Quote from: JMJW on January 05, 2019, 07:03:51 AM
It's been several days and we still know nothing about this person. Nobody has said anything. The employee and everyone else might be real, but it could easily be a transphobic cis dude in make up and clothes. This individual didn't look like they'd been on HRT. It's too many of the worst stereotypes packed into just a minute and a half. It's too concentrated to be real life.
This has what to do with what?
Quote from: TonyaW on December 31, 2018, 09:03:58 AM
Here is a good read on that
https://genderexpressive.wordpress.com/2018/12/30/held-to-a-higher-standard/
Great article Tonya! Very spot-on considering the fact that many of us, not all, indeed hold ourselves to "the higher standard" and would never do this, just *shrug* it off instead.
Quote from: Swedishgirl96 on January 05, 2019, 05:58:20 AM
Why don't you just drop this sir and ma'am system? Feels so old.
It's called "gender-neutralism" Swedishgirl of which am a big proponent but don't agree with the language police part I get alternately 'sir' & 'ma'am' just 'bout everyday and
NO BIG DEAL! It's
The World that's fast moving away from "a gender binary" but not me, I take great refuge/satisfaction in
keeping at bay? (edit:
no contributing to) the utter confusion of modern "cis society" everyday!
Apparently, if in Sweden, I'd be a "hen" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_(pronoun))? lol Don't think so not too keen on NewYorkCity's new 'X' factor either! My BC is from Nassau County and even NY State changes are fast becoming really easy!
Is this even real? It reminds me of some prank you would see on one of those idiotic shows like impractical jokers or jackass. I find it hard to believe a transwoman would act this way. The way this person acted, what they said, how they said it and the fact they started kicking displays seemed the way a man would act if he got pissed off. Especially challenging the clerk to step outside. The clerk looked genuinely frightened and I don't blame him. If this is real I don't understand this persons extreme reaction to being misgendered. No doubt I will get attacked for saying this but I find it hard to believe this person being gendered Sir is a rare occurrence. Real or not it's no surprise this has gone viral. The media loves anything that portrays trans people as freaks, perverts or mentally unstable. It's most unfortunate when some trans people act that way giving them exactly what they want.
Quote from: Devlyn on January 05, 2019, 07:26:13 AM
This has what to do with what?
That it could have been an actor. Obviously an actor isn't going to go on HRT to make a viral video. There's method acting, but no one's going that far.
QuoteAm in a Facebook group that this woman posted to in an attempt to defend herself. It is a trans feminine forum and the responses to her were quite critical. Based on that, I do not believe this to be a setup.
What was the defence? The video begins with f bombs, so it stands to reason something bad happened beforehand. Was it really about being misgendered while being denied a refund on a video game?
Quote from: Julia1996 on January 05, 2019, 08:11:53 AM
Is this even real? It reminds me of some prank you would see on one of those idiotic shows like impractical jokers or jackass. I find it hard to believe a transwoman would act this way. The way this person acted, what they said, how they said it and the fact they started kicking displays seemed the way a man would act if he got pissed off. Especially challenging the clerk to step outside. The clerk looked genuinely frightened and I don't blame him. If this is real I don't understand this persons extreme reaction to being misgendered. No doubt I will get attacked for saying this but I find it hard to believe this person being gendered Sir is a rare occurrence. Real or not it's no surprise this has gone viral. The media loves anything that portrays trans people as freaks, perverts or mentally unstable. It's most unfortunate when some trans people act that way giving them exactly what they want.
This was exactly the point I was trying to make. This post has been a topic of controversy here the last few days.
To those who viewed some of the things I said as transphobic or resentful towards our community, I apologize. However, I do believe in the power of a first impression and public perception. If we expect the public to accept us and over time grow to be more accepting of us, we need to have thick skin. People suck. It's the nature of life. Throwing a temper tantrum is NOT how we fight for our rights to be equal. This leads the general public to mock, criticize and further deny our existence.
I had my first account being blatantly misgendered on Thursday. It honestly caught me completely off guard. In my opinion, I'm not the most attractive woman. I feel like I can pass in the public eye, but I feel like there are certain parts of me that "give me away."
I got off the L downtown Chicago and started heading to my therapy appointment. As soon as I left the train station, I had a gentleman promoting something for a store look me dead in the eye and say "excuse me sir, can I ask you a question?" Did I kick over his display and cause a scene? Absolutely not. I stood my ground with my head held high and with a smile replied "Excuse me sir, but do you really think I'm a sir?" He turned 4 shades of red and apologized profusely.
Point is, you get a lot more respect out of people when you treat them with respect. If you want respect, you must be respectful. Even if someone says something completely hurtful without thinking, overcome their ignorance with kindness. This is a war for equal rights, not a battle. If people in our community continue to fight battles by causing disturbances and scenes like this for the internet bullies to film, post, remix and play up to their liking, we will lose the war overall. This behavior is totally unacceptable.
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Quote from: JMJW on January 05, 2019, 08:37:25 AM
That it could have been an actor. Obviously an actor isn't going to go on HRT to make a viral video. There's method acting, but no one's going that far.
What was the defence? The video begins with f bombs, so it stands to reason something bad happened beforehand. Was it really about being misgendered while being denied a refund on a video game?
Or it could be a transgender woman, perhaps a transgender woman who will someday come to this very site looking for support and instead finding people questioning her very identity because she isn't some delicate flower expressing every stereotype of femininity on what seems to be a very bad day for her.
Frankly, some of the posts in this thread are atrocious, the amount of edits and penalties already assessed by the staff attest to that, and I will be glad if this cesspool is locked, and or preferably deleted before this woman has the chance to see the way her "community" is speaking about her. She had a bad day. The sooner she, and we, put it behind us, the better for everyone.
QuoteOr it could be a transgender woman, perhaps a transgender woman who will someday come to this very site looking for support and instead finding people questioning her very identity because she isn't some delicate flower expressing every stereotype of femininity on what seems to be a very bad day for her.
That we heard nothing for a week beyond the same article shared by rednecks is what aroused doubt and suspicion, as well it should. We got nothing from gamestop, the filmer, the uploader, from any media site, from the community, from a woman who said she would galvanize the entire LGBT against Gamestop.
To characterize this as me looking at just her presentation and behaviour and saying clearly a cis dude - that is a strawman argument. I don't make that claim.
Because I agree that we need gender acceptance for the butch and badly behaved transwomen too. They shouldn't have their woman card revoked in the court of public opinion. It's easy to get gender acceptance for the passing or near passing and well behaved. The real fight is for people like this because a transwoman's gender can't be conditional on such things as behaviour or criminality.
I'm sorry, hate me, call me hypocritical or whatever you may, but "having a bad day" is no excuse for the vulgarity, violence and threats. That's plain wrong. Man or woman, that's wrong. Think before you act. What upsets me most about this is this just gives people more ammo against us and it could have been totally avoided by taking a minute to breath and walk away
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Quote from: Sky1090 on January 05, 2019, 09:13:57 AM
I'm sorry, hate me, call me hypocritical or whatever you may, but "having a bad day" is no excuse for the vulgarity, violence and threats. That's plain wrong. Man or woman, that's wrong. Think before you act. What upsets me most about this is this just gives people more ammo against us and it could have been totally avoided by taking a minute to breath and walk away.
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That kinda describes posting it here, too, doesn't it?
... not sure how the two are the same thing but that's okay.
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Yeah I'm going to need some help with how throwing a temper tantrum in a store is in any way related to posting on a forum.
Quote from: Sky1090 on January 05, 2019, 09:21:11 AM
... not sure how the two are the same thing but that's okay.
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Quote from: Colleen_definitely on January 05, 2019, 09:22:40 AM
Yeah I'm going to need some help with how throwing a temper tantrum in a store is in any way related to posting on a forum.
As I already said, I'm sure she wants to move on, as should we. Criticize the actions in the store, that's fine, and she should have to pay for anything that she damaged. But people here questioning her identity because she used a male voice or doesn't (in their estimation) use HRT is, to use a technical term, horse hooey.
Quote from: Sky1090 on January 05, 2019, 08:46:26 AM
This was exactly the point I was trying to make. This post has been a topic of controversy here the last few days.
To those who viewed some of the things I said as transphobic or resentful towards our community, I apologize. However, I do believe in the power of a first impression and public perception. If we expect the public to accept us and over time grow to be more accepting of us, we need to have thick skin. People suck. It's the nature of life. Throwing a temper tantrum is NOT how we fight for our rights to be equal. This leads the general public to mock, criticize and further deny our existence.
I had my first account being blatantly misgendered on Thursday. It honestly caught me completely off guard. In my opinion, I'm not the most attractive woman. I feel like I can pass in the public eye, but I feel like there are certain parts of me that "give me away."
I got off the L downtown Chicago and started heading to my therapy appointment. As soon as I left the train station, I had a gentleman promoting something for a store look me dead in the eye and say "excuse me sir, can I ask you a question?" Did I kick over his display and cause a scene? Absolutely not. I stood my ground with my head held high and with a smile replied "Excuse me sir, but do you really think I'm a sir?" He turned 4 shades of red and apologized profusely.
Point is, you get a lot more respect out of people when you treat them with respect. If you want respect, you must be respectful. Even if someone says something completely hurtful without thinking, overcome their ignorance with kindness. This is a war for equal rights, not a battle. If people in our community continue to fight battles by causing disturbances and scenes like this for the internet bullies to film, post, remix and play up to their liking, we will lose the war overall. This behavior is totally unacceptable.
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You are absolutely right about antitrans people using anything they can against us. I read the comments for that video and they were most hateful and unkind but unfortunately some of the negative comments made about this person were absolutely true. The one comment I saw over and over was that no woman would ever challenge someone to " take it outside " and that it's an extremely masculine thing to do, which I agree with. I still doubt the validity of this video but if it is genuine I have zero sympathy for this person. I've been accused more than once of making insensitive remarks about other trans people here on this site. I will admit I have made such remarks. My heart goes out to any trans person trying to live their life as best they can but I have no sympathy for those who don't bother to make an effort. Unfortunately being gendered correctly is a hard won privilege for trans people, it takes hard work for many of us. If you don't bother to make the effort then don't go off when you get misgendered. I am not talking about how passable someone looks either. I mean doing voice therapy, learning female speech patterns and how to act like a lady. When misgendered replying " excuse me, but it's ma'am not sir" in a normal tone of voice goes much farther than yelling, cursing, threatening someone physically and kicking store displays. If you act like a man that's exactly how you will be treated. I've never been misgendered by a stranger. Only by a family member who did it deliberately. But if I was I would say " Did you just call me Sir"? Then laugh it off making the person look foolish. How you react has a lot to do with how things play out. If I acted amused at being misgendered most people would just think the person who misgendered me was stupid, confused or a little daft. But if I start yelling, throwing the F bomb around, kick over store displays and challenge the person to take it outside then people are going to think " wow, I guess that really is a guy". In my opinion the best weapon a transwoman has against abusive and ignorant behavior against her is to react gracefully and with class.
Quote from: Chloe on January 05, 2019, 08:00:16 AM
It's called "gender-neutralism" Swedishgirl of which am a big proponent but don't agree with the language police part I get alternately 'sir' & 'ma'am' just 'bout everyday and NO BIG DEAL! It's The World that's fast moving away from "a gender binary" but not me, I take great refuge/satisfaction in keeping at bay? (edit: no contributing to) the utter confusion of modern "cis society" everyday!
Apparently, if in Sweden, I'd be a "hen" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hen_(pronoun))? lol Don't think so not too keen on NewYorkCity's new 'X' factor either! My BC is from Nassau County and even NY State changes are fast becoming really easy!
Well sure gender-neutralism is a nice thing. But that was not what I was preposing.
I was just criticizing this system using titles to address someone. Like sir, ma'am, Mr and Mrs and so on. It is a widespread phenomenon in this world but it's so strange and old. I'm so glad I don't have to use it. In Sweden we have abolished that since the 60's.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Du-reformen)
Hen is just a gender neutral pronoun in Sweden. It's just a mix of han and hon (he and she). It has caused quite a big debate some years ago but not anymore. Now it's commonly used. I think its nice to use an inclusive language.
QuoteBut people here questioning her identity because she used a male voice or doesn't (in their estimation) use HRT is, to use a technical term, horse hooey.
No one has made those arguments.
I'll say it again. HRT means we can exclude the multifaceted theory of a cis actor. It doesn't mean her identity is questionable because she's not on HRT.
Not for nothing, I'm not on HRT either.
Quote from: Devlyn on January 05, 2019, 09:17:24 AM
That kinda describes posting it here, too, doesn't it?
lol goosfraba (http://youtube.com/watch?v=onvx4dXhcHY) ? 'la la la laaaa la la'
The clerk was clearly apologetic and seemed sincere. In no way did he seem to be deliberately misgendering this person. It had all the appearances of an honest mistake by the clerk in my opinion. I think ignoring it is the best response, as if it didn't register when the person said it, unless it keeps getting repeated. I'd be a hypocrite though if I didn't admit that wrong pronouns or 'sir' upset me and stick with me like a bee sting for a while before I get over it. Avoiding situations like this is why we expend so much energy and resources feminizing. Sometimes, I feel worn out by it all, as this person must have been at the time.
I have now taken damage as a result of this video. One of my wife's uncles by marriage posted it on his Facebook page, unfortunately as I was gearing up to start publicizing my new novel on Facebook.
To clarify, I have a Facebook personal page where I am still under my deadname, in order to cover for the in laws, who are literally the last group of people I am not out of the closet to.
I maintain an "author page" under my real name where I keep my own real life and publicize my books.
Anyway the uncle's post caused a huge fight between me and my wife. She almost made me take down my author page. We compromised; I ended up blocking all my in laws in the U.S. (three aunts and their families, all Republicans who drink the kool aid) and keeping my author page.
This won't necessarily block them from seeing my author page but it will block them from ever finding out about it or finding out my true name if they don't already know those things.
Like I said, this trans woman, whoever she is, made us all look very bad.
Quote from: Devlyn on January 05, 2019, 08:55:08 AM
Or it could be a transgender woman, perhaps a transgender woman who will someday come to this very site looking for support and instead finding people questioning her very identity because she isn't some delicate flower expressing every stereotype of femininity on what seems to be a very bad day for her.
Frankly, some of the posts in this thread are atrocious, the amount of edits and penalties already assessed by the staff attest to that, and I will be glad if this cesspool is locked, and or preferably deleted before this woman has the chance to see the way her "community" is speaking about her. She had a bad day. The sooner she, and we, put it behind us, the better for everyone.
I agree with this. She probably needs a bit of love and understanding. Maybe somebody who listens to her and respect her. We know nothing about her and her life. Who are we to judge?
Quote from: Kirsteneklund7 on December 29, 2018, 10:02:48 PM
I wonder if that really is a transwoman? If so Huge Cringe Factor! Not to mention extremely bad manners.
Maybe its an anti-trans activist trying to discredit trans people?
Thanks for making us aware of this Sky!
Kirsten[emoji102]
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I have to agree. Something about this person, just rubbed me the wrong way, they way over reacted, and the fact that someone was videoing it seems dubious too. I just seemed overdone and a gigantic over-reaction and way over the top. In short it just seemed inauthentic somehow.
Turns out she's real.
Her name if Tiffany Moore.
https://www.thisisinsider.com/tiffany-moore-says-she-was-misgendered-gamestop-employee-2019-1
Quote from: Janes Groove on February 06, 2019, 11:52:18 PM
Turns out she's real.
Her name if Tiffany Moore.
https://www.thisisinsider.com/tiffany-moore-says-she-was-misgendered-gamestop-employee-2019-1
Ugh. This just makes it worse, she really needs to stop bringing attention to this event. It does not paint her in a positive light and continues to provide fodder for the bigots of this world.
I think I said it earlier, we've all been there. We've all been misgendered either by accident or intention. But we own our response to that, and this was an immature, overblown and borderline violent response. If you want to do business with them and they are rude, well then you made that choice. There are many game stops.
I would not want to be a friend of this person, no matter if the person was male or female, and no matter whether it was at the times I was male, or now that I am female!
The way this person acts, is not behooving either gender!
BTW, this video clip became viral through Facebook in Thailand and here in S. Korea a week ago. I guess she was drunken or under drug influence, but hardly she can represent cis-women or S. Korean passengers. But it is embarrassing to watch this kind of video on any kind of eccentrically volatile individual. I am afraid of Korean women ;D ;D There always have been many miserable people around the world, and nowadays they are more easily exposed owing to the Internet and the SNS.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_9K0N9hSEc
barbie~~
Quote from: Janes Groove on February 06, 2019, 11:52:18 PM
Turns out she's real.
Her name if Tiffany Moore.
https://www.thisisinsider.com/tiffany-moore-says-she-was-misgendered-gamestop-employee-2019-1
There is a YouTube video of her giving an interview after it happened. She said the clerk intentionally and continually misgendered her before where the video starts and she blew up. I don't agree with how she reacted but certainly understand why.
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Ann Coulter is already using it (the story) to attack us.
She call's it "The War on Normal." Whatever normal is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/1093381087672311814
I watched the video and I am not all sure of what and how this event went down? My take away is that this person could use some help.
Quote from: Janes Groove on February 07, 2019, 01:41:12 PM
Ann Coulter is already using it (the story) to attack us.
She call's it "The War on Normal." Whatever normal is. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
https://twitter.com/AnnCoulter/status/1093381087672311814
If you ask me, a skeletor impersonator whose main debate tactic is shrieking really isn't likely to be a good authority on normal.
Quote from: TonyaW on February 07, 2019, 10:53:29 AM
There is a YouTube video of her giving an interview after it happened. She said the clerk intentionally and continually misgendered her before where the video starts and she blew up. I don't agree with how she reacted but certainly understand why.
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Although I definitely think that she shouldn't have acted the way she did at all, I never saw this situation as black and white as it was being portrayed. I always looked at the clerk with some suspicion and wondered why it was they had to "sir" her in the first place. If you see someone like her come in who is clearly presenting feminine (no matter whether they have masculine features otherwise or not)
you don't say sir. Just omit it. Good lord.
The fact that he constantly did it and made it clear it was intention just confirms my suspicions. The general public sadly looked at this video and all they saw was a trans woman who didn't pass to their standards making a big, property-destroying scene from being misgendered (supposedly innocently), but they couldn't for even one second think any deeper about it. That figures, such nuances are lost to people who are already transphobic and already predisposed to think that transgender people are just loud people who want to make a scene and love to be victimized by being misgendered from 'innocent' bystanders.
I'm not buying it, and not just because I am transgender myself. There is so much more to this.
There's an employee at my local Wawa who's misgendered me repeatedly, but I don't believe it was malicious; I'd just shaved in preparation of top surgery, which wasn't doing me any favors, and I'm a pretty flamboyant guy.
At the same time, if I'd had my full beard and was dressed in stereotypically masculine clothing (instead of androgynous pajamas), I'd have been pretty offended. In the same vein, I can't fathom why that woman was misgendered at all, much less repeatedly; if it was as blatantly malicious as she says it was, I can understand her explosive reaction. I don't necessarily agree with it, but I understand it.
I hope, for all the people using it to defame her and the rest of the community, that her speaking out about what actually happened helps. At least now, instead of cisgender people only seeing the "crazy transgender woman," they can see the truth, too. Some will ignore it, but others will learn from it—I just hope there's enough learning to make a difference.
My feelings are mixed. I recognize that decoupling gender from biological sex is a heavy philosophical and epistemological lift for cis folks. But it's one they should be putting in the effort to clear. Just show some respect. You don't have to agree in your heart of hearts, but in the public square? Respect peoples' presentations. The woman in question is not a mind reader. Maybe it was accidental. Maybe it was intentional. Who knows? Clearly she thought it was intentional and I can see her being pissed. But her reaction was way over the top. Being trans and thin-skinned is not a great combination in this world, from what I can see. Fair or not, every time you're presenting as non-gender-conforming, you're carrying a banner. She shouldn't have acted that way and it reflects poorly on the rest of us.
I really do feel bad, but most of us have been there and yes it sucks. The manager could have called the police on her for kicking the display. I think from the perspective I saw this person was having a bad day, and there are so many unknowns about the situation. I almost felt like maybe this was a regular customer...or this person wanted to transition, but could not take hormones for whatever reason, and that could explain the rage. It is sad what ever the case is because it goes back to a be the change you wish to see in the world. Everytime I get called male it is okay, and I if I get called ma'am or female then it is a secret win inside my head. I just smile, and move on with my life. #leaveapositiveimpression #moveonwithyourday
I don't think quietly moving on is in her best interest as a rapper. From a career perspective it's probably best if she made a youtube/instagram/twitter/facebook account right now and started posting material.
Quote from: jill610 on January 05, 2019, 07:23:08 AM
This brings back the old conversation about passing and if it is important or not. To me it is very important. I fo not identify as a man or as a trans woman. I identify as a woman, which means that my trans-ness is between me and God and I don't want everyone else to be in on that knowledge. That's just my needs and desires and everyone is different, but this video highlights my intrinsic need to not be identified as trans and associated with that kind of caricature of trans women represented in this video.
Jill this right here is exactly how I feel about this video and the whole topic in general.