Quick summary so far;
- Been on HRT max dose for 1 year 1 month
- SRS done 07/2018
- 41 year old
Future plan:
- BA summer of 2019
- Or....FFS summer of 2020?
- Or wait for more effects from HRT, before going to FFS? Do surgeons even do FFS, with so relatively little time on HRT?
Which one would help me to pass more realiable and be cost effective doing that? That´s what Im trying to figure out. And it aint easy. I just wish now and then that I would get hit by a car and die and be done with this. There´s nothing fun of being trans, or at least I haven´t found it, but that´s another story.
Anyways, all of friends, the few relatives that I have left and some people whom I´ve met only few times, all say the same thing: Don´t go and do a FFS! You don´t need one!
The thing is, that now and then someone genders me as a male. Like today at work. And it hurts, so so badly and makes me question actually the sanity of this whole transitioning. I mean getting misgendered I start to assume, that 99% of people around me are just being nice and treating me like a female, even when I clearly look like a male.
I would rather just represent a third gender so I wouldn´t need to worry all these surgeries and collecting money for them. Just hate this. But unfortunately being a third gender is even more impossible than passing.
So, if I get a BA and get big enough breasts which clearly show, would it help to eliminate even those few random encounters where person thinks me as a male?
Or do I need to have full FFS even when that means, that I probably need to wait few years, before I can afford one.
Probably should have waited with SRS and get FFS first....
But then again, SRS was something for myself, something that I needed, but FFS I guess is for everyone else....
FFS is for you too. It gives you confidence and peace of mind. BA's are nice but tons of girly girls are boobless. If you have a large chest ( width) a BA will barely show and people still focus first on your face. If I was trying to pass and had masculine features, the face would be first. In fact, I did and it was. These decisions can all be so frustrating and exhausting.
I wouldn't regret doing SRS first...it's totally the most important surgery for me as well (although it will come after FFS for my transition).
As for BA vs. FFS, I think it really depends on the situation. Sounds like you're thinking about it the right way. I guess one question is: are you definitely going to get BA in any case? If so, doing it now seems like the right approach. But if you would be comfortable going without BA, I might do the saving up for FFS.
The other thing is that I don't think FFS is completely sure thing in reliably allowing trans women to pass 100% of the time following surgery. With BA, you have a pretty good idea what the result is going to be.
Did coworkers that misgender you know you before you went fulltime as a woman? If you notice it's only a select few coworkers that knew you before and not happening outside of work, then maybe you're passing more than you think? It could just be they're too used to your pronouns before...
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Sorry, but I doubt that BA would achieve the results you want.
For one, boobs are a very poor indicator of gender. About 1/3 of the guys over 50 have man boobs.
Young men get boobs from prescribed behavioral drugs.
Voice is one of the biggest factors in passing.
Perhaps the "easiest" is to get rid of any beer belly. Even if you don't pass, a toned body and a flat belly commands respect, and maybe even envy from GGs.
Visit any plastic surgeon's website and look at their before-and-after breast augmentation photos. You will see sooo many pictures of cis women with little or even zero breast volume. But I bet those flat-chested women still got gendered as female all the time. Breast size is a relatively poor indicator of gender. Much more important is the face, voice, and waist-hip ratio.
You can still get a BA if you want. I did, and I feel it was worth it. But it didn't help me pass. I passed just fine with push-up bras, just like most cis women with small breasts wear. If you want help with passing, FFS is the most important surgery by a huge margin. FFS was the first surgery I did, and it changed my life more than any of my other surgeries.
FFS first. That's where people look first for the most part to determine gender.
Height too.
And yes let HRT do it's magic for another year or two. One year is not a long time for muscle loss in the face or fat redistribution. Your boobs may grow a lot also. Only time will tell.
The face is probably the biggest visual cue for gender perception and passing. If that's your primary goal, I'd invest there first.
A feminine face is my choice, after a feminine voice.
Chrissy
Voice > Face > figure (within reason of course)
If you're looking to test this you could always try out some breast forms to see how people react to you having bigger boobs.
I have had all three surgeries. I did face first and don't regret it other than my choice of surgeon. GCS was next for my sanity, followed by BA. The BA was like a nice icing after the main meal. It was tasty, fun, but not integral to presentation improvement. If I did it over, I would repeat order with a better FFS surgeon.
Quote from: Colleen_definitely on January 04, 2019, 06:33:47 PM
Voice > Face > figure (within reason of course)
If you're looking to test this you could always try out some breast forms to see how people react to you having bigger boobs.
This reminds me of what some people look at first, and the pink t-shirts with the big upward pointing arrow on the chest that reads, "My face is up there."
But I think that the face is more important, after voice.
Chrissy
I certainly agree. It's just a lot harder to fake FFS than it is to fake bigger boobs.
Thank you for the answers. It´s just that the FFS will be a lot more expensive and I need to wait few years. Will I remain sane that long. Time will tell I guess :)
It´s just that everyone around me are telling, that you don´t need FFS. I just don´t know anymore what I´m looking from the mirror.
The stupidest thing is, and now you all are going to think, that I´m absolutely crazy :D
That the person who misgendered me, was a mentally retarded person. I really have been misgendered so so few times, that I question the sanity of FFS and the risks involved, because I don´t get often misgendered.
2 times a year ago I was asked, if I´m male or female.
In Bangkok called once a Khatoye and once in airport as transsexual behind my back and one lady coming to ask me if I´m ladyboy (And in Thailand I didn´t take those as offence, didn´t bother me a bit)
Last June litte girl, mentally retarded too, thinking I´m male (more below).
And now a mentally retarded person thinking I´m male.
That´s it. I just take it so heavily of getting misgendered even when it does happen to cis females too.
Then again, I have "proof" that some change has happened. In last June I was taking care of little girl, who is also mentally retarded and she kept on calling me as man, everytime she needed help. Now in October I was again there, and this time she called me girl, everytime she needed help. So, something has changed in her eyes.
I´m just not sure, if everyone else around me are very polite and keep on treating me as female, even when they see male. I don´t know and that creates a huge insecurity inside :(
Then again I have so many other occasions, where I definitely was thought as female. Like the little girl above, but in December I was doing job interview via Skype and the lady asked from me, if I´m thinking of still getting pregnant...
I add a picture here, so we know what we are talking about :)
This is me, in work mode as a nurse I remind you. I need to keep my hair tied together. In civil life, I have shoulder length hair.
And I know, pictures are difficult. So many different things affecting it. This was taken 2 days ago, 1 year and 1 month of HRT.
Don´t quote the picture, I will remove it later.
But what would you do with FFS for my face? I honestly don´t know, what I would change? Bigger lips perhaps...?
More hair to forehead, yes that I know is a problem, but that comes from genes. My mother had a similar hairline already at age of 19. I have her wedding picture on my bookshelf :)
And then again...I´m 41.
(https://i.imgur.com/ByrjWrE.jpg)
depends on what you want. forehead advance, orbital rim bossing and rhinoplasty would certainly make you "prettier". You do look female tending towards andro but you seem to be wearing no makeup and that can make a world of difference. Your call. If you had vfs and sounded very female I probably wouldn't bat an eyelash. You appear to have no beard growth?
Quote from: luckygirl on January 05, 2019, 01:22:22 AM
depends on what you want. forehead advance, orbital rim bossing and rhinoplasty would certainly make you "prettier". You do look female tending towards andro but you seem to be wearing no makeup and that can make a world of difference. Your call. If you had vfs and sounded very female I probably wouldn't bat an eyelash. You appear to have no beard growth?
No make-up at work. It´s just not feasible. Perhaps eyebrows, mascara and light lipstick would be good option. Those would stay on, when things get sweaty at work :)
Otherwise I do use make-up very often, almost always, but not going to grocery store etc.
Beard is gone, mostly. I still have 3 appointments to laser and that will be it. In total I took 12 times laser within a year and half. And 3 times I think some 4 years ago. It´s gone :)
Perhaps I still need to wait one more year on HRT. 2 years and the changes, most dramatic ones are done.
Voice is mostly ok. It´s just that the intubation tube did hurt something from my throat and I´m just now six months after SSR returning to my female voice. I don´t sound like Marilyn Monroe, but then again, nobody gives a strange face, when I talk.
I don´t really mind looking andro without makep-up. I mean, I´m 41. Would I like to look like young girls. Hell yes! Is it possible. In my day dreams yes, but otherwise, not in this life anymore...unfortunately...
Quote from: Mendi on January 05, 2019, 01:14:20 AM
I add a picture here, so we know what we are talking about :)
This is me, in work mode as a nurse I remind you. I need to keep my hair tied together. In civil life, I have shoulder length hair.
And I know, pictures are difficult. So many different things affecting it. This was taken 2 days ago, 1 year and 1 month of HRT.
Don´t quote the picture, I will remove it later.
But what would you do with FFS for my face? I honestly don´t know, what I would change? Bigger lips perhaps...?
More hair to forehead, yes that I know is a problem, but that comes from genes. My mother had a similar hairline already at age of 19. I have her wedding picture on my bookshelf :)
And then again...I´m 41.
(https://i.imgur.com/ByrjWrE.jpg)
I wouldn't do anything, but it is, of course, your choice. :)
Quote from: Devlyn on January 05, 2019, 03:47:56 AM
I wouldn't do anything, but it is, of course, your choice. :)
Thansk Devlyn. You are like my friends. Don´t do it!
But, I think I´ll wait a bit still.
I just take these misgendering way way too serious or they affect me too much.
Btw, if you are still online. Would you mind editing the picture away from the quote?
The fashion trend these days is to wear T shirt bras that don't show straps. You may want consider going the other way, as visible straps are an indicator of gender.
It may help to wear a tighter shirt. Women's shirts often have stretch fabrics. This will make the bra straps more visible.
If you watch people's eyes that may provide clues into how people are gendering you. A cashier may gender you off your hands if you are paying cash. Nail polish is a strong gender marker if you don't have small hands.
I wouldn't expect someone with mental impairments to come up with the same conclusions to anything as "normal"
people.
Quote from: Mendi on January 05, 2019, 01:14:20 AM
I add a picture here, so we know what we are talking about :)
This is me, in work mode as a nurse I remind you. I need to keep my hair tied together. In civil life, I have shoulder length hair.
And I know, pictures are difficult. So many different things affecting it. This was taken 2 days ago, 1 year and 1 month of HRT.
Don´t quote the picture, I will remove it later.
But what would you do with FFS for my face? I honestly don´t know, what I would change? Bigger lips perhaps...?
More hair to forehead, yes that I know is a problem, but that comes from genes. My mother had a similar hairline already at age of 19. I have her wedding picture on my bookshelf :)
I think your face is more feminine than many cis women I've seen. My face has gotten more feminine with HRT, but I'd like to have a little tightening here and there to make it more so. I'm in nursing as well and have to wear my shoulder length hair in a pony tail and only use light makeup. I've found that good eye makeup can make a world of difference, and as long as it's rather conservative, as in my avatar, there isn't a problem with it violating policy. My only suggestion to assist with feminizing in your case is to work on your eye makeup routine. Otherwise, I think you look great!
If you're gagging to get something cut on, the only things I would bother with are your brow bossing and maybe your nose.
All in all I'd say you're doing pretty well as is. HRT will help soften things up some more but it can't change hard tissue like a skull.
Quote from: AshleyP on January 05, 2019, 02:13:52 PM
Oh, I don't know about that... The "How-Old" website says that you're a 28 year-old female. :)
--AshleyP
Interesting web site but I wouldn't put much credence in it. I put in 6 pics of myself and got 6 totally different results; 25 - 86.
You look great for only one year HRT. In two years or 3 you will look even more female. Your cheeks and skin are great!
At this point I would just look at forehead and maybe nose.
You could do with a lip lift with fat injections into the lip. Chin implant or chin work of some sort to get rid of the square looking chin.
Honestly though you look very feminine. The second group of stuff is more for looking prettier. And that's all been put into my head from seeing ffs doctors. You are pretty.
You're a very lucky girl.
Just stay with HRT for another 1.5 years. Save money. Then do what you want. Either way you will end up with more money than you have today and be more feminine looking.
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Thank you all for kind words!
I know the issue is mostly in my head, because I most of the time just see the old male staring back from the mirror. Like nothing hasn´t happened! Now and then I even see still a beard, even when I know that is impossible :)
Occasionally from the mirror stares back a female and I like what I see.
I think hardest part of transitioning, is getting the reflection from mirror matching what is the reality. That is hard!
Patience :)
Hi!
Here are my two cents, for what they're worth...
I'd wait at least 2 years under HRT before doing BA, because there's a good chance that your natural breasts will keep growing along that timespan (it has clearly been the case for me). How long one has to be under HRT is not that relevant before FFS.
In my opinion, for passing and relieving dysphoria, FFS is much more of a priority than BA. There are many cis women with flat chests and no one pays attention, but a masculine face on a woman, on the other hand, tends to get much more second looks.
In my case, I did FFS + tummy tuck + hip liposculpture after 1 year under full dose HRT. Together with a hair transplant and laser+electrolysis, this allowed me to achieve passability ASAP (including using a swimsuit on the beach without getting awkward second looks). Just 2,5 months from now (which will be after 2 years and 1 month under HRT) I'll be undergoing SRS and BA during the same intervention.
And I'm happy... [emoji4]
Warm hugs, Sarah
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Mendi, you sound exactly like me and I'm at 15 months hrt... Thing is, my nose and brow bossing and maybe jaw/chin are issues for me. My mom actually has similar brow bossing at me and she's 65, but none of my sisters do and my dad doesn't I don't think... I still see it being more visible on me since I was born male and that along with my nose really bothers me [emoji22] so I know the feeling, and even places I choose to sit is decided by avoiding people seeing my left side of my face... I'm insecure about that side showing my flaws more and people (well guys) treating me differently because of it. I also commute to a very big city and people aren't shy with staring. All in all ffs seems like a life saver to me to be honest
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Quote from: Allison S on January 06, 2019, 02:45:34 PM
Mendi, you sound exactly like me and I'm at 15 months hrt... Thing is, my nose and brow bossing and maybe jaw/chin are issues for me. My mom actually has similar brow bossing at me and she's 65, but none of my sisters do and my dad doesn't I don't think... I still see it being more visible on me since I was born male and that along with my nose really bothers me [emoji22] so I know the feeling, and even places I choose to sit is decided by avoiding people seeing my left side of my face... I'm insecure about that side showing my flaws more and people (well guys) treating me differently because of it. I also commute to a very big city and people aren't shy with staring. All in all ffs seems like a life saver to me to be honest
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I agree Allison, but you know what? There's some very beautiful women out there with some very male markers. So there is that. I think smooth skin and feminine voice goes so much further. I've seen people and wondered and they open their mouths and it removes all doubt one way or the other. Philosophically of course. Who cares, ya know? cuz' there are some very obvious trans-women out there that are just sooooooo beautiful. Someday soon it's gonna be totally cool to be the third sex and we'll be judged on our character, That will be nice, nice, nice.
Maybe a BA will be more important to you to help with dysphoria instead of passing?
Body dysphoria can be hard in the bathtub, or after a shower. Or getting ready for work or going to bed.
If you prefer a BA I would still give it another year of HRT and let them grow more if you can handle the wait.
I think I will take the BA next summer. These moments of some misgendering are just moments where I get into dispair.
Now after few days, I feel again ok and even like the way I look. But those moments of dispair, just make me feel like I wanna get a completely new head :D
I´ve been told by guys that I´m pretty, sexy etc etc...of course they do know that I´m ts, but that doesn´t really bother me that much. I rather be open who I am if someone wants to know.
But I think the BA just is more gender confirming to me, even when face is important too, but I´m very afraid of starting to cut my face, because I know that the view that I have about myself, is not completely real or true and starting to have face surgery probably just means for me, that there is no end in sight for that. I´ve just seen too many very pretty young ts girls getting face surgery, when they didn´t need it. They were sexy and very good looking, but like me, they couldn´t see it themselves from the mirror. That´s the saddest part of this transitioning, that it´s very difficult to see the correct reflection from mirror.
Maybe you aren't being misgendered. Instead, you may be the subject of gas lighting by mentally unstable people with an ax to grind?
We have a similar situation at work. Management makes controversial decisions and customers take it out on the paid staff.
I was reading popsugar today and saw this.
She is cis, but I probably have bigger boobs than she does.
Her face indicates to me she is cis. Her boobs tell me nothing.
(https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190109/610ad80df9f6d4010cf8b874a5160fbb.jpg)
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You look female to me, at least in the picture. Hairline lowering, forehead reconstruction, orbital rims, nose job, lip lift and chin surgery will certainly make you more feminine and pretty but to my perception you look female already
You look great Mendi.
If I was you I'd skip the FFS since you already look female. I see you mentioned BA next summer. I think that's a wise choice because you'll have more natural growth with HRT by then and that far out you might see you don't need it.
I booked a BA next July 26th at PAI. Going to take a holiday also in Thailand. Three weeks first travelling there and then a boob job, before going home ;D
At that point I have been on HRT for 21 months.
These will probably grow still, but I doubt that they achieve the measurement that I want. Not that I´m looking anything huge, but noticable boobs, because at the moment I don´t really feel comfortable of going to swimming hall etc, because basically I am quite flat chested. The boobs are just so separated.