Hi.
I was wondering if it is just me as a mtf that I am noticing in public a lot of masculine looking women's faces. Have you noticed this too? I am not talking about senior citizens, I am talking about ladies perhaps in the later 20s and maybe perhaps into their 50s or so.
Now, do not get me wrong, I am saying they do look female overall, I am just talking about their faces. Maybe this is because of their makeup.
But some of their faces clearly look a lot more masculine than our many lovely looking women we have here visiting Susan's, including the many who are just starting to transition! I shake my head sometimes, as a very nice woman I see in public and talk with sure sounds female, dresses and is otherwise clearly female, but her face looks more male than female!
I wonder if because of being trans I am simply studying women's faces, movements, attire, and so on much more critically than ever. Perhaps I am thinking of future facial feminization surgery (FFS) needs or the lack of it.
Now I suppose there are women who want to look more masculine than feminine, but not me.
I think that beauty is overrated, but it is appreciated. What I am talking about here is simply women who have more masculine facial features than female facial features, not gorgeous vs. plain Jane faces. It is also interesting that I can see many senior ladies who have more female looking faces than many much younger women!
Chrissy
@ChrissyRyanDear Chrissy: I always like to do a lot of people watching, that is why I like going to big city shopping malls, and when traveling, in the large airport waiting areas.
Living in the very small town that I do, people watching here is very limited.
As you have, I have also noticed a few cis-women with predominately masculine looking faces and eye brows.... not a whole lot of them but they are around. Some of them even move and walk... and certainly dress in a masculine way.
It kinda makes me think that perhaps that they are not happy with their femininity and they just may be transitioning themselves as a FTM???
Before I transitioned I was always, even in Junior High School, a very feminine looking male ... small, short, no muscle, small hands and arms, soft looking face and a girlish voice to match... so I finally took the steps that I did as a MTF.
Danielle
Yes!!! There are a ton of them. They're everywhere. Has anyone noticed women who have hips narrower than their shoulders?
Most of us girls set our expectation so high and the fact is that most women do not live up to the standards. Most trans females are not going to be full-figured and to expect that is silly.
This is not surprising, since there is a great deal of overlap between what is considered a masculine face and what is considered a feminine face. That overlap has always been there.
As we progress in our transition, we look for changes in our own faces and become aware, often for the first time, of features that are labelled "masculine" or "feminine". I know I have only become aware of them since I started my transition.
I do notice that, in most crowds, my face is not the most masculine-looking woman's face. It shouldn't matter, and really it doesn't. Yet it does comfort my insecurities.
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on February 16, 2019, 12:51:40 PM
Hi.
I was wondering if it is just me as a mtf that I am noticing in public a lot of masculine looking women's faces. Have you noticed this too?
...
Chrissy
Quote from: GingerVicki on February 16, 2019, 03:34:55 PM
Yes!!! There are a ton of them. They're everywhere. Has anyone noticed women who have hips narrower than their shoulders?
Most of us girls set our expectation so high and the fact is that most women do not live up to the standards. Most trans females are not going to be full-figured and to expect that is silly.
I noticed the same things when I started to observe women more closely. I would also add voice to the list as well, there are plenty of women with not so great voices.
And still, sometimes I just can't help myself, I just cannot see past all my flaws even if others tell me I look great.
Quote from: GingerVicki on February 16, 2019, 03:34:55 PM
Yes!!! There are a ton of them. They're everywhere. Has anyone noticed women who have hips narrower than their shoulders?
Most of us girls set our expectation so high and the fact is that most women do not live up to the standards. Most trans females are not going to be full-figured and to expect that is silly.
This is exactly what I see around here. More nordic type women have hips as wide as their shoulders, or even a little smaller, while almost all Latino women and black women have the wider hips and the bigger booties.
My hips are about as wide as my shoulders. But my chest is rather large, and would not allow for that hour glass figure!
Quote from: KathyLauren on February 16, 2019, 04:02:55 PM
As we progress in our transition, we look for changes in our own faces and become aware, often for the first time, of features that are labelled "masculine" or "feminine". I know I have only become aware of them since I started my transition.
I do notice that, in most crowds, my face is not the most masculine-looking woman's face. It shouldn't matter, and really it doesn't. Yet it does comfort my insecurities.
Yes, this is so true. After a year or so into transitioning it was a side thing to do while grocery shopping. Looking at faces and picking out masculine or feminine features.
I only do it now when trying to determine ones gender.
Only when they go over the top!
Last week, I was waiting for the train, modestly dressed in leggings, trainers, loose top, support bra and with pale pink lips.
Then she came down the platform in clicking high heels, sexy sheer black stockings and a tight short skirt. No mistake, I would have loved to have done the same!
She had an ample bust, heavy bright red lip makeup and a flower in her hair. But from the large craggy look of her face, she was obviously TG.
If only she had been more modest, I'm sure her face would have escaped attention.
I can get on a plane, train, a cruise ship, or go to the mall and tell you why each and every woman there isn't passing....and I'm talking about the natal females! :laugh:
Quote from: Devlyn on February 17, 2019, 02:59:28 PM
I can get on a plane, train, a cruise ship, or go to the mall and tell you why each and every woman there isn't passing....and I'm talking about the natal females! :laugh:
I'll add that I seem to care more about my appearance than many of the women around me, and dress more feminine. I suspect many of us pass more than we think we do :)
Amie
Quote from: valerie anne on February 17, 2019, 02:26:10 PM
Only when they go over the top!
Last week, I was waiting for the train, modestly dressed in leggings, trainers, loose top, support bra and with pale pink lips.
Then she came down the platform in clicking high heels, sexy sheer black stockings and a tight short skirt. No mistake, I would have loved to have done the same!
She had an ample bust, heavy bright red lip makeup and a flower in her hair. But from the large craggy look of her face, she was obviously TG.
If only she had been more modest, I'm sure her face would have escaped attention.
@valerie anneDear Valerie Anne: I mostly agree with your conclusions in your comments.
HOWEVER,
their appearance of a "large craggy face" is not a true indicator of being TG.... BOTH cis-women and cis-men can have those facial appearance traits from my observations as a people watcher "extraordinaire."
In many of my comments and posts around the Forums I have stated many times about when I relocated to a small rural conservative town where I live now as a full-time woman and started my own woman owned small business, that because I was dealing with the financial affairs of my business and individual clients that I made a point to blend-in and not stand-out.
I always dress conservatively and I always try to exhibit the visual and personal traits of a responsible and respectable business woman.
Flying "under the radar" seems to work well for me in my situation. When I finally came-out and revealed my "secret" to the entire town and my new friends... I also made a point to not shove my trans-status in anyone's faces.
I feel that I was overwhelmingly accepted because, in my opinion, I got involved in the town's business meetings and events, charity events and various clubs and activities. I firmly established my credibility as a respected woman in my personal and business life.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
Hugs and well wishes,
Danielle
I don't know. Sometimes I wonder if they're trans and stealth. I've definitely seen women who are my height (5'7") and almost the same body size... Their voices were feminine and as far as I could tell they're afab.
Honestly people think they're special because they clock me because of my feminine gay guy voice. The urologist I saw slipped up and called me sir, but quickly tried to move past the slip up. I feel a bit sad because to me instinctively I appeared male to him still... And well, he is there to exam my male anatomy...
But no, even with masculine features I can usually tell who's trans and who isn't
Sent from my VS501 using Tapatalk
My observation related to this is that many cis women are very comfortable in sloppy mode. Most early transitioners are not so comfortable with this. I sometimes think about going out in sloppy mode, but I guess I don't feel comfortable knowing people's thoughts on my gender without the (female) clues I provide in my attire. My hair can make my face look feminine or masculine. Cis women 99.5% of them don't have to worry about being misgendered.
Quote from: Devlyn on February 17, 2019, 02:59:28 PM
I can get on a plane, train, a cruise ship, or go to the mall and tell you why each and every woman there isn't passing....and I'm talking about the natal females! :laugh:
At the mall, Devlyn, at the mall?!!!! Tell me it ain't true.
Quote from: HappyMoni on February 17, 2019, 05:32:13 PM
Cis women 99.5% of them don't have to worry about being misgendered.
I think many of them would be misgendered, but they don't care, they don't even think about that anybody would them gender anything else but female.
I was in the checkout line at TJMax the other day, In front of me was a woman, a little taller than I (I am 6'), and real broad shoulders, and a pretty masculine face. Her voice as definitely female. The way she did the checkout process showed clearly that she was so sure of her femininity that she expected that nobody would doubt it! She was simply a tall woman, but for sure a woman, no questions asked (she probably would have killed anybody who would have questioned it)
I think that we are our worst critics, and we pass without any problems, but always are afraid that we might not pass. And this insecurity might cause other people to look at us closer than hey would do otherwise.
Quote from: HappyMoni on February 17, 2019, 05:32:13 PM
...
At the mall, Devlyn, at the mall?!!!! Tell me it ain't true.
I tell you no lie! :laugh:
I do look a little bit still at other women's faces and occasionally wonder if someone is trans. There are many women that do not have traditionally feminine faces but you can still tell that they are cis.
At this point I am so exhausted mentally from trying to pass that I just assume every person I interact with knows that I am trans. Although I dress in a blend in and tasteful manner I still think I am easy to clock. Between my 6'2" height and my bulbous nose it's a pretty much done deal. I doubt I will ever be 100% OK with that fact or that my dysphoria will ever be cured but I am learning to live with it and still be reasonably happy.
Quote from: KimOct on February 17, 2019, 08:52:31 PM
I do look a little bit still at other women's faces and occasionally wonder if someone is trans. There are many women that do not have traditionally feminine faces but you can still tell that they are cis.
At this point I am so exhausted mentally from trying to pass that I just assume every person I interact with knows that I am trans. Although I dress in a blend in and tasteful manner I still think I am easy to clock. Between my 6'2" height and my bulbous nose it's a pretty much done deal. I doubt I will ever be 100% OK with that fact or that my dysphoria will ever be cured but I am learning to live with it and still be reasonably happy.
I have seen women running around with knobers in their face, so big, one would not believe it! Yours looks petite compared to some I have seen! Walk down the hallways of the Mayo, and see some of them outstate farm women (Lena and her female relatives from Lake Wobegon) if you want to see big knobers!
I think up north were you are, you blend even into the crowed with your 6'2". I am 6', and I run constantly into taller women!
There are typical feminine faces, and the atypical. Look at Loni Anderson, or Maria Shriver. Their jaw structures are not typically feminine, but they are still beautiful. This is one primary reason i never considered FFS.
Don't sweat the small stuff.
Never considered FFS ?? You are my heroine :) That is someone comfortable in their own skin. I want to be you when I grow up :D
Lake Wobegon Linde LOL I wonder how many people know what you are talking about. :D
Quote from: KimOct on February 17, 2019, 11:04:07 PM
Lake Wobegon Linde LOL I wonder how many people know what you are talking about. :D
Let it be the secret of us Minnesnowtans! >:-)
The probably don't know Ole and Lena either?
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on February 16, 2019, 12:51:40 PM
I wonder if because of being trans I am simply studying women's faces, movements, attire, and so on much more critically than ever.
I get this above, when I started transitioning, I became hyper aware of others, more so than ever before. I will run into women, that I know are women, yet they have "overlapping features" of males. It's an interesting topic, and people watching is definitely something I engage in more than before, I can pay attention to many fine details, like never before. The information processing as you move through a crowd, can be intense. Sometimes it's nice to turn this off and just go about your business....
Women come in all shapes and sizes, and people are interesting. The reverse can be seen in men, like guys with moobs, I don't know why I notice this more today, slap me....
I think HRT did change my facial features over time (not quite as much as I'd like). I like to think I have a better smile today, in fact I am almost always smiling out in public, I smile at just about everyone now days. Just the small act of smiling and exercising my "smile muscles" I think increases the feminine read factor (subjective).
Cynthia -
I notice them every now and then. Sometimes I even wonder if they are in transition and then I see their kids with same features -- guess I was wrong. What I also notice as much are men with feminine faces and features, and even men with bigger hips -- and my mind goes all over the place if I let it. My husband knows me well enough that sometimes if he see me 'seeing' he will just tell me to not even go there.
In all actuality, many many many models and actresses "have masculine" faces and triangle shaped bodies (wider shoulders than hips). I believe this is in part due to higher levels of testosterone which causes added bone growth all over, higher height, and "husky" voices.
Famke Janssen, Frederique van der Wal, Helena Christensen, Natalie Portman, Keira Knightley, Kate Walsh, Geena Davis, Kate Winslet, Claudia Schiffer, Linda Evangelista, Stephanie Seymour, Eva Mendes,
These ladies tick on my tdar: square jaws, deep set eyes, good sized brow bones, sturdy chins... check them out.
Some of these women wear size 12 shoes and stand six feet tall and are regarded as the most gorgeous women on Earth. We're in good company!
Maybe so, but their perfect brows and white smile seem to counteract their possible masculine looking face.
This is what i never seem to understand is that some trans are eager to pass or desire ffs, yet neglect
the most important feminine features on a face first, brows and/or smile. These two alone can make such a
huge difference, especially in the way some of us may be peceived by others too.
I had a waitress at a restaurant yesterday, who I thought for 100% that she was a man! Very masculine looking face, big hands, etc., until she spoke with a clearly feminine voice. One never knows!
IT does not surprise me, cis-women come in all shapes and sizes.. yes some of them are more masculine
I do find myself paying a lot of attention to how other women look.
It is fun sometimes to people watch, not to stare of course, but to simply notice them.
You notice their faces, hair, clothing, walk, and listen to their voices too. Some women seem to have such pleasant female voices. I wish I did!
Does anyone else like to people watch, in a nice way?
Chrissy
Quote from: ChrissyRyan on February 16, 2019, 12:51:40 PM
Hi.
I was wondering if it is just me as a mtf that I am noticing in public a lot of masculine looking women's faces. Have you noticed this too? I am not talking about senior citizens, I am talking about ladies perhaps in the later 20s and maybe perhaps into their 50s or so.
Now, do not get me wrong, I am saying they do look female overall, I am just talking about their faces. Maybe this is because of their makeup.
But some of their faces clearly look a lot more masculine than our many lovely looking women we have here visiting Susan's, including the many who are just starting to transition! I shake my head sometimes, as a very nice woman I see in public and talk with sure sounds female, dresses and is otherwise clearly female, but her face looks more male than female!
I wonder if because of being trans I am simply studying women's faces, movements, attire, and so on much more critically than ever. Perhaps I am thinking of future facial feminization surgery (FFS) needs or the lack of it.
Now I suppose there are women who want to look more masculine than feminine, but not me.
I think that beauty is overrated, but it is appreciated. What I am talking about here is simply women who have more masculine facial features than female facial features, not gorgeous vs. plain Jane faces. It is also interesting that I can see many senior ladies who have more female looking faces than many much younger women!
Chrissy
Maybe some of them are trans, so what do you know, why you talk about it like it were weird.